MS Magnet admissions: are CES students at a disadvantage?

[Anonymous]

CES doesn't prepare them for stem does not mean they are not strong in STEM, those kids are already high achievers when they got selected into CES..

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is not 25%, it is 25 students out of 335 CES (~7.5%) students got into Takoma..

It's roughly 25 CES students that were invited to Takoma of those that applied which is great considering the CES isn't STEM-focused.

Exactly, CES isn't about STEM but humanities. It's surprising it's that many since CES doesn't prepare kids for a STEM program at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CES doesn't prepare them for stem does not mean they are not strong in STEM, those kids are already high achievers when they got selected into CES..

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it is not 25%, it is 25 students out of 335 CES (~7.5%) students got into Takoma..

It's roughly 25 CES students that were invited to Takoma of those that applied which is great considering the CES isn't STEM-focused.

Exactly, CES isn't about STEM but humanities. It's surprising it's that many since CES doesn't prepare kids for a STEM program at all.

There are even 25 of them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS documents clearly state that seats were allocated differently, with more directed toward students assigned to lower performing MSs. For Eastern and Takoma Park, 75 seats went to non-CES kids, 25 to CES kids. Anyone who thinks that ratio makes sense based on purely objective criteria is smoking something.

Well, it’s gotta be healthier than smoking sour grapes...

Their post literally doesn’t add up since there are around 220 to 240 total seats at eastern and Takoma. Without a credible source iit appears they’re making up numbers to suit their narritive of choice and lend credit to unproven conspiracy theories.

Maybe the PP is confused about numbers vs. percents.

But yes, I agree. Obviously everybody who wants to maximize their child's chances for the math/science middle school magnet program should move to the Takoma Park service area - or the Roberto Clemente service area!

Perhaps, but they post clearly stated 75 seats, not percent... but more importantly they failed to provide any type of corobating citation which means it's all just BS.

I can try to offer some "corobating citation"
Here is the MCPS document stating that more "


Here is the MCPS document clearly showing that certain middle schools have a lot of highly qualified students:
Cabin John, Frost, Hoover, Pyle, Silver Spring International and Sligo.

We know that on average just over 3 students from each CES were accepted into Takoma or Eastern
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/Summary%20of%20the%20Middle%20School%20Magnet%20Data.pdf

We have anecdotal evidence (from DCUM posters) that some CESs only had a couple of students accepted into the middle school magnets. Students at CESs at schools such as Cold Spring ES and Pine Crest seem to have been at a real disadvantage, presumably because of the geographical/ peer cohort criteria.

Worth noting that the same MCPS document also shows that nearly every middle school has enough highly qualified students to have a full class of gifted math and gifted social studies so highly gifted students in these middle schools would presumably have a peer group in their home middle school.

Another MCPS document which notes that this year's magnet class is different in a notable way:
"Has the program itself changed as a result of the new screening process for the Science, math, computer science program?

We still have many top math students in our new sixth grade class, and we are seeing a greater diversity in ability. This is an important opportunity for highly able students to be able to step up into a more rigorous curriculum. What has changed is not the rigor of the program or our expectations of students. What has changed is instruction and what the teachers need to do. Our teachers are expected to provide supports and scaffolding to help all magnet students attain the level of mastery of students working at a high level in mathematics"

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/Grade%205%20Parent%20FAQ's%20.pdf

The problem with this theory is the CES kids were those selected by their parents to attend these programs from back in the day whereas the new magnet selection process uses universal screening which made things a lot more competitive. I strongly suspect the kids with the highest scores got in and they aren't the same ones whose parents nominated them for the gifted program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If almost all the middle school has a cohort, then isn't this so called "cohort" criteria a joke? why it was only applied to certain schools?

Because the goal was to reduce the number of Asian American students and voila that is exactly what they did. The schools that were blocked had more highly performing Asian American students.The enrollment in the end did not add very many URM students but whites did go up and Asians went down so MCPS sees it as success in getting closer to the demographics that it wants. Its called racial balancing and its very wrong. White kids who don't perform as well as Asian kids do not need extra privilege but they certainly got it! Plus TPMS got to keep its 25 in boundary seats that don't need to compete with the rest of the county. These kids certainly don't deserve to be there and most are white. Asian American parents are not dumb, they know very well that if they try to move into TPMS that they will still get blocked. However nice try in enticing families that can prop up the scores in the low performing ES to move while at the same time discriminating against them.

Now the magnet has -how did they put it - a greater diversity in ability- translating to the magnet no low longer has the top applicants.

If you have evidence that supports this allegation, you should file a lawsuit, because that's illegal.

Don't file a lawsuit if you don't have evidence, though.

(Wasn't there going to be a lawsuit? What happened? Maybe there wasn't any evidence to support this allegation?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS documents clearly state that seats were allocated differently, with more directed toward students assigned to lower performing MSs. For Eastern and Takoma Park, 75 seats went to non-CES kids, 25 to CES kids. Anyone who thinks that ratio makes sense based on purely objective criteria is smoking something.

Well, it’s gotta be healthier than smoking sour grapes...

Their post literally doesn’t add up since there are around 220 to 240 total seats at eastern and Takoma. Without a credible source iit appears they’re making up numbers to suit their narritive of choice and lend credit to unproven conspiracy theories.

Maybe the PP is confused about numbers vs. percents.

But yes, I agree. Obviously everybody who wants to maximize their child's chances for the math/science middle school magnet program should move to the Takoma Park service area - or the Roberto Clemente service area!

Perhaps, but they post clearly stated 75 seats, not percent... but more importantly they failed to provide any type of corobating citation which means it's all just BS.

I can try to offer some "corobating citation"
Here is the MCPS document stating that more "


Here is the MCPS document clearly showing that certain middle schools have a lot of highly qualified students:
Cabin John, Frost, Hoover, Pyle, Silver Spring International and Sligo.

We know that on average just over 3 students from each CES were accepted into Takoma or Eastern
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/Summary%20of%20the%20Middle%20School%20Magnet%20Data.pdf

We have anecdotal evidence (from DCUM posters) that some CESs only had a couple of students accepted into the middle school magnets. Students at CESs at schools such as Cold Spring ES and Pine Crest seem to have been at a real disadvantage, presumably because of the geographical/ peer cohort criteria.

Worth noting that the same MCPS document also shows that nearly every middle school has enough highly qualified students to have a full class of gifted math and gifted social studies so highly gifted students in these middle schools would presumably have a peer group in their home middle school.

Another MCPS document which notes that this year's magnet class is different in a notable way:
"Has the program itself changed as a result of the new screening process for the Science, math, computer science program?

We still have many top math students in our new sixth grade class, and we are seeing a greater diversity in ability. This is an important opportunity for highly able students to be able to step up into a more rigorous curriculum. What has changed is not the rigor of the program or our expectations of students. What has changed is instruction and what the teachers need to do. Our teachers are expected to provide supports and scaffolding to help all magnet students attain the level of mastery of students working at a high level in mathematics"

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/Grade%205%20Parent%20FAQ's%20.pdf

The problem with this theory is the CES kids were those selected by their parents to attend these programs from back in the day whereas the new magnet selection process uses universal screening which made things a lot more competitive. I strongly suspect the kids with the highest scores got in and they aren't the same ones whose parents nominated them for the gifted program.

The kids with the highest scores did get invitations. The real high-flyers and outliers, but there are very few of those. DD is at a CES and they talk about their scores (which I dislike but that's a different story). Many of her classmates scored lower than kids at her home school that did not get in. The ones with lower scores anecdotally seem to come from lower performing schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS documents clearly state that seats were allocated differently, with more directed toward students assigned to lower performing MSs. For Eastern and Takoma Park, 75 seats went to non-CES kids, 25 to CES kids. Anyone who thinks that ratio makes sense based on purely objective criteria is smoking something.

Well, it’s gotta be healthier than smoking sour grapes...

Their post literally doesn’t add up since there are around 220 to 240 total seats at eastern and Takoma. Without a credible source iit appears they’re making up numbers to suit their narritive of choice and lend credit to unproven conspiracy theories.

Maybe the PP is confused about numbers vs. percents.

But yes, I agree. Obviously everybody who wants to maximize their child's chances for the math/science middle school magnet program should move to the Takoma Park service area - or the Roberto Clemente service area!

Perhaps, but they post clearly stated 75 seats, not percent... but more importantly they failed to provide any type of corobating citation which means it's all just BS.

I can try to offer some "corobating citation"
Here is the MCPS document stating that more "


Here is the MCPS document clearly showing that certain middle schools have a lot of highly qualified students:
Cabin John, Frost, Hoover, Pyle, Silver Spring International and Sligo.

We know that on average just over 3 students from each CES were accepted into Takoma or Eastern
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/Summary%20of%20the%20Middle%20School%20Magnet%20Data.pdf

We have anecdotal evidence (from DCUM posters) that some CESs only had a couple of students accepted into the middle school magnets. Students at CESs at schools such as Cold Spring ES and Pine Crest seem to have been at a real disadvantage, presumably because of the geographical/ peer cohort criteria.

Worth noting that the same MCPS document also shows that nearly every middle school has enough highly qualified students to have a full class of gifted math and gifted social studies so highly gifted students in these middle schools would presumably have a peer group in their home middle school.

Another MCPS document which notes that this year's magnet class is different in a notable way:
"Has the program itself changed as a result of the new screening process for the Science, math, computer science program?

We still have many top math students in our new sixth grade class, and we are seeing a greater diversity in ability. This is an important opportunity for highly able students to be able to step up into a more rigorous curriculum. What has changed is not the rigor of the program or our expectations of students. What has changed is instruction and what the teachers need to do. Our teachers are expected to provide supports and scaffolding to help all magnet students attain the level of mastery of students working at a high level in mathematics"

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/Grade%205%20Parent%20FAQ's%20.pdf

The problem with this theory is the CES kids were those selected by their parents to attend these programs from back in the day whereas the new magnet selection process uses universal screening which made things a lot more competitive. I strongly suspect the kids with the highest scores got in and they aren't the same ones whose parents nominated them for the gifted program.

The kids with the highest scores did get invitations. The real high-flyers and outliers, but there are very few of those. DD is at a CES and they talk about their scores (which I dislike but that's a different story). Many of her classmates scored lower than kids at her home school that did not get in. The ones with lower scores anecdotally seem to come from lower performing schools.

Emphasis on anecdotally. I can believe some kids with high scores didn't get in because they had a strong cohort at their home middle school while some other kid who was zoned for a less competitive MS and had similar scores did. There are a lot of kids who are qualified for these programs who don't make the cut because there aren't a sufficient number of seats. The enriched classes are promising. Overall this may not be perfect but it's an improvement because more kids benfit now than before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS documents clearly state that seats were allocated differently, with more directed toward students assigned to lower performing MSs. For Eastern and Takoma Park, 75 seats went to non-CES kids, 25 to CES kids. Anyone who thinks that ratio makes sense based on purely objective criteria is smoking something.

Well, it’s gotta be healthier than smoking sour grapes...

Their post literally doesn’t add up since there are around 220 to 240 total seats at eastern and Takoma. Without a credible source iit appears they’re making up numbers to suit their narritive of choice and lend credit to unproven conspiracy theories.

Maybe the PP is confused about numbers vs. percents.

But yes, I agree. Obviously everybody who wants to maximize their child's chances for the math/science middle school magnet program should move to the Takoma Park service area - or the Roberto Clemente service area!

Perhaps, but they post clearly stated 75 seats, not percent... but more importantly they failed to provide any type of corobating citation which means it's all just BS.

I can try to offer some "corobating citation"
Here is the MCPS document stating that more "


Here is the MCPS document clearly showing that certain middle schools have a lot of highly qualified students:
Cabin John, Frost, Hoover, Pyle, Silver Spring International and Sligo.

We know that on average just over 3 students from each CES were accepted into Takoma or Eastern
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/Summary%20of%20the%20Middle%20School%20Magnet%20Data.pdf

We have anecdotal evidence (from DCUM posters) that some CESs only had a couple of students accepted into the middle school magnets. Students at CESs at schools such as Cold Spring ES and Pine Crest seem to have been at a real disadvantage, presumably because of the geographical/ peer cohort criteria.

Worth noting that the same MCPS document also shows that nearly every middle school has enough highly qualified students to have a full class of gifted math and gifted social studies so highly gifted students in these middle schools would presumably have a peer group in their home middle school.

Another MCPS document which notes that this year's magnet class is different in a notable way:
"Has the program itself changed as a result of the new screening process for the Science, math, computer science program?

We still have many top math students in our new sixth grade class, and we are seeing a greater diversity in ability. This is an important opportunity for highly able students to be able to step up into a more rigorous curriculum. What has changed is not the rigor of the program or our expectations of students. What has changed is instruction and what the teachers need to do. Our teachers are expected to provide supports and scaffolding to help all magnet students attain the level of mastery of students working at a high level in mathematics"

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/Grade%205%20Parent%20FAQ's%20.pdf

The problem with this theory is the CES kids were those selected by their parents to attend these programs from back in the day whereas the new magnet selection process uses universal screening which made things a lot more competitive. I strongly suspect the kids with the highest scores got in and they aren't the same ones whose parents nominated them for the gifted program.

Let's be honest; if the average scores at the centers had stayed the same or gone up MCPS would have released that data to much fanfare. The fact is that for the first time they didn't release this information. Institutions like MCPS don't hide good news.