MS Magnet admissions: are CES students at a disadvantage?

[Anonymous]

A friend pointed me to this document https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/Middle%20school%20magnet%20selection%20process%20overview.PDF

Apparently one of the factors that is used for middle school magnet admissions is "whether the student receives enrichment/acceleration." (See the slide titled "Academic Performance.") She says based on this any student already in a CES will be at a disadvantage since that student is receiving enrichment/acceleration. Apparently last year the number of CES students admitted to the MS magnets went down drastically because of this, though the peer cohort (in the home middle school) criterion applied alone should affect both CES/non-CES students equally.

I am just wondering why MCPS looks at "whether the student receives enrichment/acceleration" as opposed to "whether the student NEEDS enrichment/acceleration." ? It sounds like because of this factor, students are better off not going to CES, if they want to improve their chances of qualifying for MS Magnets.

[Anonymous]

That's not how I would read it. They're talking about reviewing the student's academic performance, and looking at their grades and reading level. Knowing whether the student has received enrichment/acceleration is necessary for assessing their academic performance. For example, if student #1 had high grades while in an accelerated program, and student #2 had the same grades in the on-level program.

Also, enrichment and acceleration can happen at the home school/not at a CES.

[Anonymous]

My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

[Anonymous]

I thought this is just the sentence that is on the report card saying your child receives enrichment. That’s at all schools. This year’s 5th graders in the upcounty magnet catchment and this year’s fourth graders in the down county magnet catchment will be the first group of kids chosen for CES by the universal screening that go through the MS magnet assessment process. I think it will be interesting to see if the magnet acceptance numbers remain as low as for the group that was chosen for CES via the parent application process but then went through the new middle school selection process.

In any event, CES or not, I don’t think you can guarantee your kid gets into a MS magnet. We are assuming our kid will go to the local MS and preparing her and ourselves for that. I personally wouldn’t give up the CES experience for the hypothetical possibility of a better chance at acceptance to a MS magnet. But I suppose if you or your kid didn’t want to do CES, there is also no reason to do CES thinking it will help your kid with MS magnet admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

Really? I was told it was for kids who a) meet the standards for "highly able" and b) don't have a peer group at their assigned MS. There are some who meet this standard at all the MS. Yes it's a higher standard than the old one for kids assigned to some MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

So my kid is currently in 5th grade regional CES and the home middle school hosts the magnet program. How does that work? Are the magnet kids considered part of the cohort or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

So my kid is currently in 5th grade regional CES and the home middle school hosts the magnet program. How does that work? Are the magnet kids considered part of the cohort or not?

That is a good question. Maybe call and ask MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

Really? I was told it was for kids who a) meet the standards for "highly able" and b) don't have a peer group at their assigned MS. There are some who meet this standard at all the MS. Yes it's a higher standard than the old one for kids assigned to some MS.

Told by whom?

Yes, MCPS is choosing kids who are ‘highly able’ but they are not looking for the MOST ‘highly able’ kids in the County. They are looking for ‘highly able’ Kids at lower performing MSs.

The rep very specifically said that they will take a kid with an 88%ile score from a lower performing MS over a kid with a 98%ile score from a stronger MS because of the peer cohort presence at the better performing MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

Really? I was told it was for kids who a) meet the standards for "highly able" and b) don't have a peer group at their assigned MS. There are some who meet this standard at all the MS. Yes it's a higher standard than the old one for kids assigned to some MS.

Told by whom?

Yes, MCPS is choosing kids who are ‘highly able’ but they are not looking for the MOST ‘highly able’ kids in the County. They are looking for ‘highly able’ Kids at lower performing MSs.

The rep very specifically said that they will take a kid with an 88%ile score from a lower performing MS over a kid with a 98%ile score from a stronger MS because of the peer cohort presence at the better performing MS.

Yes but I think they are still going to take someone from every (or nearly every?) MS. At least last year they were touting having admitted someone from every ES in the catchment. They are trying to be clear it is not just the top X number of performers but I thought they were still going to take one or two from MS with significant cohorts of high performing students. But we will know better as it plays out over the years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

I think the most important factor is your child's home middle school. If you look at last year's applicant group, the home middle schools that had the largest number of "qualified" (meaning they did well on the test, had high MAP scores etc) applicants per MCPS were Frost, Hoover, SSIMS, Sligo and Pyle
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/MS%20Magnet%20Field%20Test%20Data%20by%20Sending%20MS.pdf

These students had a terribly difficult time getting into the middle school magnets because of the peer cohort criteria.
The CES schools that had a lot of children zoned for these home middle schools saw huge drops in acceptance rates - I think only a couple got in from Cold Spring CES (which feeds to Frost MS which has the largest number of high achieving kids). I think Oak View also saw a similar drop off in acceptances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

I think the most important factor is your child's home middle school. If you look at last year's applicant group, the home middle schools that had the largest number of "qualified" (meaning they did well on the test, had high MAP scores etc) applicants per MCPS were Frost, Hoover, SSIMS, Sligo and Pyle
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/MS%20Magnet%20Field%20Test%20Data%20by%20Sending%20MS.pdf

These students had a terribly difficult time getting into the middle school magnets because of the peer cohort criteria.
The CES schools that had a lot of children zoned for these home middle schools saw huge drops in acceptance rates - I think only a couple got in from Cold Spring CES (which feeds to Frost MS which has the largest number of high achieving kids). I think Oak View also saw a similar drop off in acceptances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

I think the most important factor is your child's home middle school. If you look at last year's applicant group, the home middle schools that had the largest number of "qualified" (meaning they did well on the test, had high MAP scores etc) applicants per MCPS were Frost, Hoover, SSIMS, Sligo and Pyle
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/MS%20Magnet%20Field%20Test%20Data%20by%20Sending%20MS.pdf

These students had a terribly difficult time getting into the middle school magnets because of the peer cohort criteria.
The CES schools that had a lot of children zoned for these home middle schools saw huge drops in acceptance rates - I think only a couple got in from Cold Spring CES (which feeds to Frost MS which has the largest number of high achieving kids). I think Oak View also saw a similar drop off in acceptances.

That pdf is great, and forgive me for being obtuse, but how did you locate that file? I'd like to see similar for the upcounty programs if they exist, but my searches have been fruitless.

Thanks much

[Anonymous]

In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

I think the most important factor is your child's home middle school. If you look at last year's applicant group, the home middle schools that had the largest number of "qualified" (meaning they did well on the test, had high MAP scores etc) applicants per MCPS were Frost, Hoover, SSIMS, Sligo and Pyle
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/MS%20Magnet%20Field%20Test%20Data%20by%20Sending%20MS.pdf

These students had a terribly difficult time getting into the middle school magnets because of the peer cohort criteria.
The CES schools that had a lot of children zoned for these home middle schools saw huge drops in acceptance rates - I think only a couple got in from Cold Spring CES (which feeds to Frost MS which has the largest number of high achieving kids). I think Oak View also saw a similar drop off in acceptances.

That pdf is great, and forgive me for being obtuse, but how did you locate that file? I'd like to see similar for the upcounty programs if they exist, but my searches have been fruitless.

Thanks much

You won't find this for upcounty schools. That data is from downcounty schools which were piloting a new selection process. Upcounty schools were using the previous process.