Are you a "Dream Hoarder"? I am, apparently
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Anonymous
So soak me. |
Anonymous
But it is not just a matter of priorities, it is absolutely a matter of knowledge, perspective, and even the ability to choose your priorities. My nanny has a sister with a five year old daughter, both of whom recently arrived from El Salvador (yes, all are legal so let's avoid that debate). Sister speaks no English, is 22, and was living with a friend of her grandmother. Parties were frequently happening at all hours and it was clearly not a safe place for the child. They ended up staying with me for several months. Five year old had never been in a preschool setting as this was not the norm where she lived. Mother knew nothing about the DC school lottery, good school zones, and literally had no idea that this was even information that was available to seek out. The issue wasn't that mom didn't prioritize a good school, it was that she had no idea that within DC there were good schools and bad and that there was a way to determine which were which and to increase the likelihood that your child would attend a good one. My child, who just turned three already has more "school readiness" skills than this five year old and my child got into a school we consider acceptable in the lottery, because I knew to apply, while my nanny's niece was stuck with our inbound that I don't consider acceptable, particularly for K and above. They have since moved elsewhere but I expect this to repeat in similar situations. There is absolutely an advantage that my kids have that this child will never be able to compete with and this is apparent at such an early age. |
Anonymous
True, but the access those contacts have and the ability the contacts have to get their kids a leg up, etc is wildly different. I did not grow up 'poor' but lower-middle class (blue collar). I'll never forget when the Career Services Office at my SLAC (because I was a smart cookie and got financial aid) suggested I network with my parents' friends for jobs. Probably a common suggestion they make -- and likely to pay off if your parents' friends work in places where you, a new college grad, want to work. I looked at her blankly and told her that my father's best friend was a lobsterman. His other friends were plumbers, sheet metal people, etc. They did not work anywhere I wanted to work. So, as much as my parents may have wanted to help me get ahead in my career, they couldn't. Their contacts were of zero use to me. In contrast, my upper middle class husband found his first job post-college, in his preferred field, through a long-time contact of his father. That's the difference. Get it now? |
Anonymous
It all goes back to AAs and Hispanics needing to grow a culture of academic achievement and hard intellectual work, doesn't it? |
Anonymous
Why? Do you think that will help poor people become savvy about educational opportunities, or just disincentivize the middle class? |
Anonymous
Why are you so sure that a black student is supposedly taking this GT Asian child's spot? Black people represent a very small percentage of all college attendees. Also, do you think that colleges don't take into account his SES? I don't agree with having racing quotas that harm Asians but please do more research into how college admissions work. |
Anonymous
So we can't have a conversation about this because you made it about race and you used one anecdote (the exceptional poor Asian) to justify your position. If you look at the list of things I listed, these are activities and norms that are part of the college process for UMC families. It is difficult for poor families of any color to crack all of that to gain admission to top schools.During the college selection process, I've been trying to put myself in the shoes of parents who may not have attending college, don't have friends or family that went to college, don't have money or well-informed guidance counselors, and live in communities that may not support academic achievement. It is difficult for poor families of any color to crack all of that to gain admission to top schools. While I think personal responsibility is part of the equation, there are still systemic problems that go far beyond what an individual family can overcome. It's not just about priorities. Have a great life! |
Anonymous
+1. Never mind that every single one of us in this thread said we would use whatever connections and resources we reasonably could to help our own kids. If the GT Asian child doesn't get in, it's because a black student took the spot, not because a spot was taken by a white student whose parents know the college president and several trustees. Is this the argument, PP? |
Anonymous
This is PP. Yes, that is my point. Not to simplify it but affirmative action means looking not only at test scores but also at a variety of factors (including income). I do agree with this. While it certainly may help many African-Americans and other URM who may have otherwise been overlooked, it also helps white students against Asian students (gasp!) Nobody wants to examine that part of it--just read a thread on how high test scores shouldn't be the be all and end all (in regards to Asians). Also, many URM are belittled for being under-qualified while people are admitting that they are ok with "under qualified." As long as it is the privileged kind of under qualified. When I heard that Julian Castro had a fairly average SAT score, I admit I was a bit shocked. He went much further in his career than many people with higher scores. How do you account for this? You look at how hard he had to work to get to that SAT score. It became an indicator for how much further he could go. I know this isn't always the case but this is the reason to look at multiple factors. I do find that this excuse to look at a variety of factors is biased against Asians by being dismissive of their accomplishments BUT let's be clear about what we're talking about. The previous PP immediately decided to make it Asians vs. black in a twisted way. I think this is a common perception though. |
Anonymous
| I see it happening but not for malicious reasons. It's more because people are sheep and yuppy tastes are contagious and few people can get away from the noise. |
Anonymous
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The problems are systemic, and largely ideological. From the ideals of French Revolution America picked liberty (and added pursuit of individual happiness/success), leaving brotherhood and equality. Dream hoarding is woven into the existential fabric of this society.
Some of the premises both in the book and in the David Brooks piece in NYTimes are downright ridiculous. For one, being against re-zoning is a rational behavior by economic agents - if you plunk down your savings into a house, last thing you want is for it to drastically drop in value. Even people with no kids (and no dreams to hoard from other people's children) would not want that to happen. What these authors want is socialism, but they are afraid to say it. While I am sympathetic to the concept, you can't have it both ways - America as we know it and socialism. The rest of what they describe are direct consequences of the existing system: free enterprise, and political establishment that's for sale to the biggest donor. |
Anonymous
I didn't make this about race, the original PP brought up race, as if being black is especially difficult. Yes I used an anecdote, but Asian performance in the US is broadly recognized, and note that I don't even have to specify what kind of Asian, as Asia includes a broad range of cultures and skin colors. The activities you listed are all within the reach of any american family, including those with poor economic status. Poor Asian families do this all the time, what's so different with black families - are they less capable? is there some invisible hand that holds back only poor black families and not poor Asian families? Life is absolutely about choices and priorities, and if one make poor choices, and prioritize the wrong things, then one's life will not be as good. It is not someone else's fault. Frankly I am shocked that the social state of the US has degraded to the point where one's inherited advantages and general achievement in life is held up for question. What's next, am I going to be on the hook for a program that makes up for single-parent households because intact families represent a privilege that single-mother/father children don't have the benefit of? This is not a slippery slope question, because as soon as you disconnect a person's life achievement from the choices he makes, and places the burden somewhere else, this by necessity mean that the only way to achieve the desired end goal is to eliminate all cases of inequality. How do we make up for the lack of athletic prowess of Asians in the US world of professional sports? I find the situation appalling. Asian parents often don't know about all of the various sports programs, swim teams, or travel soccer teams that exist. The situation is leaving Asians behind and thinking about this as an Asian is actually torture. |
Anonymous
You are not just simplifying it, but you are mis-characterizing it. Affirmative action is about race. If it was purely about individual circumstances, I would not have any problems with it: a kid's achievement is in the context of his environment, and if the college represents a common environment for the students, then it's logical to make adjustments for applicants based on their differentiated circumstances. As I noted earlier, there are poor black neighborhoods, poor hispanic neighborhoods, and poor asian neighborhoods, they all have challenges. Yet we are somehow to believe that there are some special insurmountable challenges faced by poor black families that can only be remedied by differentiated action based on skin color. IMO, college applications should be anonymous - when you submit an application you get a number and that's what the reviewers see. They don't see your name, they don't see your age, sex, race, religion, or anything that is a protected class. Let the achievements and the context of those achievements speak for themselves. A poor kid is just a poor kid, poverty doesn't care about skin color, only people who care about skin color, care about skin color. |
Anonymous
Appreciate the discussion, sincerely, even though I disagree with you. Have you read Between the World and Me? |
Anonymous
I don't think PP is talking about ppl who earn income falling down- our tax structure is such that UMC ppl- people who make gigantic amounts of income are taxed disproportionately, if they earned the 500k as capital they'd pay less in taxes so a person who passively earns 1M in capital and sails all day actually ends up paying less in $ terms, not even percentage wise than some one who is working 70 hours a week and making 380k salary. Its the tax system which is geared towards punishing those with income at all levels b/c they aren't job creators and cushioning those with investment income. If you go down to annapolis etc. . you'll see plenty of ppl who are able to, for whatever reason, sit around b/c they are living off a modest investment income. If they earned the same amount in earned income, their net income after tax would be less and there are many ppl living like that all up and down the coasts and that is not even addressing the insane amount of wealth protection that the .01 percent get. Professionals in this country get shafted b/c of the concept that those who earn their money through a salary should pay taxes and support the nation b/c they don't do anything otherwise and that those who invest are creating jobs and growing the economy and are the saviors of the nation. Im not talking out of my a$$- I've a degree in social science, concentrating on social inequalities. This system also feeds into racial inequality b/c someone white is more likely to be left a small trust fund which is taxed lightly than say an asian person or black person who takes on loans to buy an education and then earn income. even if the gross amount is the same, due to the taxation system, the trust funder will have more net income and the worker will have less. especially in DC, the children of UMC white and African American's tend to have small trust funds that are taxed differently than the bonus that their peer who works his a$$ off and got here on scholarship earns, leaving the scholarship kid who works longer hours with less net income even though the gross was the same. |