13 yo ran away for independence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not send a troubled kid to Wilderness therapy. Period. Injuries and death? Rampant abuse and no oversight? Staff from boot camps and correctional institutions? No standards or long term studeies supporting this type of therapy? No licensing or regulation? And given the lack of formal oversight, I especially would not send a young girl, who is a high risk of sexual abuse.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness_therapy

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/when-wilderness-boot-camps-take-tough-love-too-far/375582/

40% of kids who graduate from these programs end up in long term residential care? That's a terrible outcome.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness_therapy

http://astartforteens.org/dangers-of-teen-wilderness-programs

https://consumer.healthday.com/encyclopedia/children-s-health-10/misc-kid-s-health-news-435/death-trip-648083.html


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/camps-troubled-kids-can-be-magnets-abuse-f8C11409077




I have a daughter with ADHD and anxiety who is 12. I would never in a million years do this. She works with a good psychiatrist, a good therapist for mindfulness and CBT, and we worked with the school to develop a 504 plan. You know-- safe, accepted mainstream therapy that Under parental supervision, that allows her to sleep in her own bed. She is also an A student. She also has lots of friends and activities. She is even on a robotics team. Difference is? When she is upset, she communicates with us, instead of running away.

I can only imagine that If I sent her away from home to an unlicensed facility with no formal oversight run by boot camp instructors, she, too, would have "abandonment" issues and start running away from home. She would also (rightfully) hate me. Although she might be too afraid to say so, because she wouldn't want to be shipped away again.

Your poor child. Get your DD real help of the the medication and mainstream therapy variety. The poor impulse control that leads a young teen to run away from home (and get herself kicked out of the house and sent to Wilderness therapy) is headed in a direct line to sex, drugs, self-harm, suicide attempts, and other forms of "acting out" that happen with kids who have impulse control issues.
Frankly, your kid deserves a lot better that what you are giving her. No wonder she is so screwed up.

Clearly, you have suffered some sort of trauma in a program - and I'm really sorry about that. But, you can't issue a blanket judgement on all programs. Abuse can happen anywhere which is why, as parents, we have to do our due diligence. For example, I've pulled my 7th grade DS with SNs out of PE and do not plan to have him ever take it again. Based on the experience my older DS and DD had in MS PE classes, I had no confidence that he wouldn't be bullied. My older kids are NT and well liked. If they had such negative experiences, I have good reason to believe my younger would experience worse. Yet, I'm not advocating that every parent of a child with SN pull their kid out of PE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not send a troubled kid to Wilderness therapy. Period. Injuries and death? Rampant abuse and no oversight? Staff from boot camps and correctional institutions? No standards or long term studeies supporting this type of therapy? No licensing or regulation? And given the lack of formal oversight, I especially would not send a young girl, who is a high risk of sexual abuse.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness_therapy

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/when-wilderness-boot-camps-take-tough-love-too-far/375582/

40% of kids who graduate from these programs end up in long term residential care? That's a terrible outcome.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness_therapy

http://astartforteens.org/dangers-of-teen-wilderness-programs

https://consumer.healthday.com/encyclopedia/children-s-health-10/misc-kid-s-health-news-435/death-trip-648083.html


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/camps-troubled-kids-can-be-magnets-abuse-f8C11409077




I have a daughter with ADHD and anxiety who is 12. I would never in a million years do this. She works with a good psychiatrist, a good therapist for mindfulness and CBT, and we worked with the school to develop a 504 plan. You know-- safe, accepted mainstream therapy that Under parental supervision, that allows her to sleep in her own bed. She is also an A student. She also has lots of friends and activities. She is even on a robotics team. Difference is? When she is upset, she communicates with us, instead of running away.

I can only imagine that If I sent her away from home to an unlicensed facility with no formal oversight run by boot camp instructors, she, too, would have "abandonment" issues and start running away from home. She would also (rightfully) hate me. Although she might be too afraid to say so, because she wouldn't want to be shipped away again.

Your poor child. Get your DD real help of the the medication and mainstream therapy variety. The poor impulse control that leads a young teen to run away from home (and get herself kicked out of the house and sent to Wilderness therapy) is headed in a direct line to sex, drugs, self-harm, suicide attempts, and other forms of "acting out" that happen with kids who have impulse control issues.
Frankly, your kid deserves a lot better that what you are giving her. No wonder she is so screwed up.

Clearly, you have suffered some sort of trauma in a program - and I'm really sorry about that. But, you can't issue a blanket judgement on all programs. Abuse can happen anywhere which is why, as parents, we have to do our due diligence. For example, I've pulled my 7th grade DS with SNs out of PE and do not plan to have him ever take it again. Based on the experience my older DS and DD had in MS PE classes, I had no confidence that he wouldn't be bullied. My older kids are NT and well liked. If they had such negative experiences, I have good reason to believe my younger would experience worse. Yet, I'm not advocating that every parent of a child with SN pull their kid out of PE.

Nope.. never been in one of these programs myself, never suffered program related trauma. But I do keep up to date through my job on best practices for adolescent treatment through my job. So I do know this: your psychologist, psychiatrist and most inpatient treatment programs (except "sober living houses," which are also dubious) need to be licensed, have credentialed staff, and have oversight/ accreditation. -- "Wilderness therapy" does not in most cases. Any quack can run one, with zero accountability to any sort of professional oversight. Most kids who go in are vulnerable, and the lack of oversight and accountability makes them more so. A tween girl is incredibly at risk-- because she is often isolated from parents with all contact cut off and has no way to protect herself or report if she is abused by an older male "camper" or a "counselor." Even if there is no sexual abuse, many of these programs employ harsh scared straight tactics that amount to abuse-- forced running, marching, extreme physical labor, withholding food, being yelled at, shamed, and called names. Being forced to sleep outside without adequate shelter and bedding. Kids have been seriously injured in these programs. Sexual abuse has been documented. Some have died. And there is no empirical data that these programs work. The mom here says that that this is so much better than inpatient care (which would have licensing, oversight, monitoring, accreditaion and staff with real degrees). But studies show there is almost a 50% chance that her daughter will end up in long term, inpatient care after "graduating" from one of these programs (as opposed to the short term stabilization, that might have helped with the original problem in lieu of Wilderness therapy).

And, BTW, wildness therapy is used for the worst of the worst, end of the line kids, whose parents have exhausted conventional treatment and have no where else to turn- older (16+) hardcore junkies, kids expelled from school, in trouble with the law, and kids whose parents have no other option short of jail. You do not want your 12 year old DD thrown into that.

Mom may very well have done long term, irreparable damage to her kid. And if a 13 year old (!!!) Is running away, it's clear that Wilderness therapy did not "cure" her kid-- and may have made it much worse problem long term.

I feel so sorry for this child, whose mom seems opposed to finding good, mainstream psych care and exploring meds. I I feel strongly about this because I have a DD his age. And, knowing what I know, there is nothing on this earth that would convince me to put her in one of these program.

I feel so sorry for this kid whose mom took the looney toon way out, rather than keeping her at home, and working with accepted methods of therapy to help her child. Maybe it's just easier toss the kid away and not have to deal with her.

Mom does not deserve love and hugs. Someone needs to tell he she is at risk of damaging her kid for life.

[Anonymous]

^^Clearly, you have baggage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a cry for help, OP. I wouldn't punish her for it.

Is she open with you? I'd have a talk with her if you can. Or offer to take her to a therapist to talk.

My first thought is the household culture is too controlling. Mine was, as a kid. And I have one friend with a 13 year old who has him programmed with organized activities from when he wakes to when he goes to bed. And he's rebelling now.

If that's the case, is there any where you can ease up? Does your daughter have specific requests? Mostly, just listen.

Op here not controlling at all. I think she thinks I am. She freaked out the other day saying she knew I wanted her to go to this high school and that college. I was stunned. I don't really care too much with high school as long as she goes and gets good grades. I haven't even thought about college. As far as her activities, she signed up for it all on her own. She tells me she has plans and I drive her or have my husband do it. I rarely say no to what she asks for since most of it is appropriate and positive for her.

As far as therapy we just moved here. I am looking for a provider now. I had three recommendations but haven't heard back from them yet. My insurance with work starts next month so I was hoping that it would have more options too.

I wouldn't tell her your top priority when it comes to her high school experience is her grades. What about effort? Heck, what about her being in an environment that will not harm her mental health??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^Clearly, you have baggage.

Do the research, and then get back to us. Tell us that you would send your deeply troubled teenage daughter to one of these programs. And remember that many DCUM parents don't even allow neighborhood sleepovers for their daughters at this age if there is a brother in the house, for fear of molestation.

So here's my baggage: if my tween was in crisis, I would want her to get treatment backed up by evidence based research. I would want to know she was safe, and not being abused or molested. I would want to work with her care providers as a family to help her-- rather than dumping her in the woods with a sleeping bag and no way to contact me, and expecting to pick up a "cured" kid without other family members playing a role. If something went wrong, I would want her to be able to contact me. I don't see where that makes me the crackpot in this situation. But my kids aren't running away from home. So...


You clearly have no PT researched these programs, and read about the abuse of kids that is rampant, and the high rate of kids getting worse, not better. . Google a bit, and then report back.

[Anonymous]

OP here- ok, I am not sure how it became decided that I did not research wilderness therapy. I did and for the record I did not use Wikipedia as one poster did. I went ahead and rewrote the entry to only cite positive facts about it.
I did pick one that was in another state even though there were two in my state. I did this because it was a better program.
I picked Wingate. I stand by this choice. They do not practice the things listed in the reviews posted. My daughter helped pick it.
We moved as part of the discharge plan because the area we lived in had zero therapists that would work with minors. The closest teen provider was 90 miles away.
I have been working to get her in with a professional here and I firmly believe that she has seen this and that is why she trusted me to call me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- ok, I am not sure how it became decided that I did not research wilderness therapy. I did and for the record I did not use Wikipedia as one poster did. I went ahead and rewrote the entry to only cite positive facts about it.
I did pick one that was in another state even though there were two in my state. I did this because it was a better program.
I picked Wingate. I stand by this choice. They do not practice the things listed in the reviews posted. My daughter helped pick it.
We moved as part of the discharge plan because the area we lived in had zero therapists that would work with minors. The closest teen provider was 90 miles away.
I have been working to get her in with a professional here and I firmly believe that she has seen this and that is why she trusted me to call me.

OP, please don't feel like you have to justify yourself or your choices to others on this thread.

Though others may be eager to hijack your post to criticize wilderness therapy (or just to beat up on you), it's perfectly fine to ignore them and stay focused on your original request.

You're clearly a caring and attentive parent who's doing the best you can for your daughter. She's lucky to have you in your corner!

[Anonymous]

OP-- you say you moved so that your DD could have access to mental health care. So why are you 2 months into the school year with no care yet? It seems like they would not release her without a psychiatrist or therapist in place.

[Anonymous]

The behaviors you describe (anxiety especially) are often part of the Aspergers/ADHD package. How did you expect wilderness therapy to "solve" a neurological difference in her brain? I don't get it.

If you can afford wilderness therapy than you dont need to wait for insurance to kick in to get her in therapy and to a psychiatrist. She needs anti anxiety medication.

Also very few child/teen psychiatrists take insurance anyway, so waiting is kind of pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP-- you say you moved so that your DD could have access to mental health care. So why are you 2 months into the school year with no care yet? It seems like they would not release her without a psychiatrist or therapist in place.

This contributes nothing. Can't imagine why you thought this would be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The behaviors you describe (anxiety especially) are often part of the Aspergers/ADHD package. How did you expect wilderness therapy to "solve" a neurological difference in her brain? I don't get it.

If you can afford wilderness therapy than you dont need to wait for insurance to kick in to get her in therapy and to a psychiatrist. She needs anti anxiety medication.

Also very few child/teen psychiatrists take insurance anyway, so waiting is kind of pointless.

OP doesn't need to justify her choices to you. She is also waiting to hear back from 3 professionals recommended to her. Contrary to what a PP notes, it is NOT easy to find a good provider that is accepting new patients even if the provider does not accept insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't rule out boarding school if she's open to the idea. We sent our daughter for one year (her idea) and while she didn't love it, it was OK. Her attitude completely changed when she came home.
It was only about 5,000 more than most private day schools as a heavy endowment made sure that almost all students got FA.
(Rabun Gap Nachoochee School in Blue Ridge Mountains, affiliated with Presbyterian Church.)

SURE, A CHURCH RUN BOARDING SCHOOL IN M*F*ING GEORGIA, THAT'LL WORK

[Anonymous]

Was she ever abused when she was younger? This would I be my first thought. She's hurting. You need to find out why. Get her in therapy before she gets into drugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not send a troubled kid to Wilderness therapy. Period. Injuries and death? Rampant abuse and no oversight? Staff from boot camps and correctional institutions? No standards or long term studeies supporting this type of therapy? No licensing or regulation? And given the lack of formal oversight, I especially would not send a young girl, who is a high risk of sexual abuse.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness_therapy

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/when-wilderness-boot-camps-take-tough-love-too-far/375582/

40% of kids who graduate from these programs end up in long term residential care? That's a terrible outcome.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness_therapy

http://astartforteens.org/dangers-of-teen-wilderness-programs

https://consumer.healthday.com/encyclopedia/children-s-health-10/misc-kid-s-health-news-435/death-trip-648083.html


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/camps-troubled-kids-can-be-magnets-abuse-f8C11409077




I have a daughter with ADHD and anxiety who is 12. I would never in a million years do this. She works with a good psychiatrist, a good therapist for mindfulness and CBT, and we worked with the school to develop a 504 plan. You know-- safe, accepted mainstream therapy that Under parental supervision, that allows her to sleep in her own bed. She is also an A student. She also has lots of friends and activities. She is even on a robotics team. Difference is? When she is upset, she communicates with us, instead of running away.

I can only imagine that If I sent her away from home to an unlicensed facility with no formal oversight run by boot camp instructors, she, too, would have "abandonment" issues and start running away from home. She would also (rightfully) hate me. Although she might be too afraid to say so, because she wouldn't want to be shipped away again.

Your poor child. Get your DD real help of the the medication and mainstream therapy variety. The poor impulse control that leads a young teen to run away from home (and get herself kicked out of the house and sent to Wilderness therapy) is headed in a direct line to sex, drugs, self-harm, suicide attempts, and other forms of "acting out" that happen with kids who have impulse control issues.
Frankly, your kid deserves a lot better that what you are giving her. No wonder she is so screwed up.

Clearly, you have suffered some sort of trauma in a program - and I'm really sorry about that. But, you can't issue a blanket judgement on all programs. Abuse can happen anywhere which is why, as parents, we have to do our due diligence. For example, I've pulled my 7th grade DS with SNs out of PE and do not plan to have him ever take it again. Based on the experience my older DS and DD had in MS PE classes, I had no confidence that he wouldn't be bullied. My older kids are NT and well liked. If they had such negative experiences, I have good reason to believe my younger would experience worse. Yet, I'm not advocating that every parent of a child with SN pull their kid out of PE.

Nope.. never been in one of these programs myself, never suffered program related trauma. But I do keep up to date through my job on best practices for adolescent treatment through my job. So I do know this: your psychologist, psychiatrist and most inpatient treatment programs (except "sober living houses," which are also dubious) need to be licensed, have credentialed staff, and have oversight/ accreditation. -- "Wilderness therapy" does not in most cases. Any quack can run one, with zero accountability to any sort of professional oversight. Most kids who go in are vulnerable, and the lack of oversight and accountability makes them more so. A tween girl is incredibly at risk-- because she is often isolated from parents with all contact cut off and has no way to protect herself or report if she is abused by an older male "camper" or a "counselor." Even if there is no sexual abuse, many of these programs employ harsh scared straight tactics that amount to abuse-- forced running, marching, extreme physical labor, withholding food, being yelled at, shamed, and called names. Being forced to sleep outside without adequate shelter and bedding. Kids have been seriously injured in these programs. Sexual abuse has been documented. Some have died. And there is no empirical data that these programs work. The mom here says that that this is so much better than inpatient care (which would have licensing, oversight, monitoring, accreditaion and staff with real degrees). But studies show there is almost a 50% chance that her daughter will end up in long term, inpatient care after "graduating" from one of these programs (as opposed to the short term stabilization, that might have helped with the original problem in lieu of Wilderness therapy).

And, BTW, wildness therapy is used for the worst of the worst, end of the line kids, whose parents have exhausted conventional treatment and have no where else to turn- older (16+) hardcore junkies, kids expelled from school, in trouble with the law, and kids whose parents have no other option short of jail. You do not want your 12 year old DD thrown into that.

Mom may very well have done long term, irreparable damage to her kid. And if a 13 year old (!!!) Is running away, it's clear that Wilderness therapy did not "cure" her kid-- and may have made it much worse problem long term.

I feel so sorry for this child, whose mom seems opposed to finding good, mainstream psych care and exploring meds. I I feel strongly about this because I have a DD his age. And, knowing what I know, there is nothing on this earth that would convince me to put her in one of these program.

I feel so sorry for this kid whose mom took the looney toon way out, rather than keeping her at home, and working with accepted methods of therapy to help her child. Maybe it's just easier toss the kid away and not have to deal with her.

Mom does not deserve love and hugs. Someone needs to tell he she is at risk of damaging her kid for life.

I think this is a very valid concern. What other kind of kids will be in the program and what are their issues and how influenced is one's child by others.

These programs are not likely to turn anyone away and will likely claim to help any kid regardless of whether they really could or not. I think they do help kids but if it was my child, I would not send them to something like this at the age of 13. At this point, I would actually try keeping them home, if no local providers then find ones that are willing to do skype sessions and yes, travel to the farther out providers as needed as well. I would take a leave of absence from work to stay home for a few months to accomodate.

[Anonymous]

OP, based on your posts, your DD has enormous anxiety. Things like freaked out about the school that you want her to attend. My DS with severe anxiety does the same thing. I haven't read the whole thing, but nothing helps. You can't apply regular thinking to a person with anxiety. I don't know about wilderness therapy, but my DS would never go anywhere where there are new people and new situations, He would shut down. He too "escaped" once. They put pressure on themselves. Most of the time, he wants to just stay in his room. I haven't really found the right medication, but SSRIs do help a ton, they also make him lose any inhibition. If you haven't tried SSRI, please give it a chance with your DD. They do help. It took me a long time to understand my son't anxiety, probably because it is not rational, but therapy without medication won't help. Majority of stories I've heard about people with anxiety left untreated is that they turn to drugs and alcohol for help, as soon as they have that option.