Team Sports, Stop paying your kids for individual goals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, my poor kids don't get money for anything! Yet both somehow manage all As, high test scores, and they even help around the house. Youngest is at the top of the region in his sport with a wall full of medals that he hasn't been paid a cent to earn.

In the real world, you don't get rewarded for everything. Even at work, most jobs outside of sales don't have a day-to-day correlation between pay and performance (oh, you helped Joe with his presentation? Here's $100!). You have to develop some other intrinsic motivation. Paying kids for grades, sports performance, etc. prevents them from developing that internal pride in doing the right thing and working hard.

And in the real world kids aren't rewarded for every trivial thing either. You are overgeneralizing while glossing over your own parenting style as both superior and effective. I'm sure you praise your kids, perhaps that is all they need, but don't act like it isn't a reward of some sort.

But, in general, rewards are only effective for short term results. They work about as well long term as do threats or fear tactics. Achievement, as corny as it sounds is generally not only its own reward but also its motivator. But, for many people, rewarding a few short term goals is a necessary step to reach a bigger picture goal for achievement.

Learning how to juggle a soccer ball is hard, especially the first 10-20. Many kids, without some form of short term motivation, will simply not keep at it. But once the mechanics of the first 20 juggles are generally met then satisfaction begins to motivate as frustration declines with success.

But attacking parents who are struggling to find ways to motivate their kids is unnecessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP back. I'm fine with bribes/money for individual sport achievements (3k, etc...), grades, chores. The huge difference I see on the field of team sports are players unable to play a team sport because their focus is on getting three goals themselves vs. passing to win the team game.

It's a team sport. Incentivize by being a great team player maybe. Soooo many crappy plays I've seen by players playing a team sport as an individual goaded by horrible parenting.

Depending on the kids age you assume that a kid playing the game so that the team wins is developmentally important at all.

OP here. Yes, I do. At any age in team sports. They need to learn how to win/play their best with teamwork. That's the point. Watching kids who hog the ball because parents are rewarding individual goals is disappointing. Practice individual skills at home and come on the field to play as a team. Often, these ball hogs contribute to losing the game even if they are rock stars.

My kids are elementary/middle school aged < 13.

No, at U Little ages they do not need to learn how to win. If a kid is cherry picking talk to the kid but once the tone of winning is set that is the environment that is created. 4 v 4 U little soccer always has 'cherry pickers" whether they are being paid or not. The sad truth for those players is that the kids who lug the ball down the field are learning the technical skills that will pay off in the long run. If you don't like the cherry picking then educate both your players and their parents about what it is you are trying to accomplish, and the most important thing for them to learn at this age is touches, touches, touches, not "how to win" as a team.

My kids first travel coach told all the parents that "if you are here to win and get medals at U9 then leave now. If you want medals from U10-U12, leave now, this isn't the place for you." The things kids need to learn at these younger ages are skills and that is a individual journey. Developmentally, you must accept that at U Little ages you do in fact have 4 individuals on the field, they are not playing for each other anyways they are playing for themselves. Let them be ball hogs, let them learn to love and want the ball and let them find their own fun. Win or lose, by the time the kid gets into the car they have forgotten it anyways.

Yes, it's not about winning or medals, it's about playing as a team. Learning how to play as a team. The ball hog who dances down the field only to be surrounded at every play by three defenders, shooting and missing goals with a singular purpose of me getting a goal due to pay for play, isn't learning team
sports. OP. Sorry, my little kids know how to pass.

[Anonymous]

sorry but hate to tell you in the real world especially athletics you are rewarded for any and all goals met. have a great season win the championship get offered a better contract . lead league in scoring get rewarded. improve all your stats getter a raise on your next deal. same thing applies to the average worker exceed your sales quota get a bonus. the more houses a real estate agent sells the more commission the get. its a fact of life success brings reward. hard work is a great quality to have but the fact is in sports as well as regular work talent is the main factor in success. success= reward so if their child is successful stop hating on them for teaching their kids how the real world works.

[Anonymous]

I've never heard of what the Op is mentioning.

[Anonymous]

I've never seen this but given the number of posters who have I believe it. Nothing you can do OP. Everyone parents in different ways. We don't do this but we don't give allowance or money for anything else either so my kids wouldn't be motivated my money. It's just different parenting choices so you just have to myob.

[Anonymous]

What about the pride of trying your best at a skill....?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP back. I'm fine with bribes/money for individual sport achievements (3k, etc...), grades, chores. The huge difference I see on the field of team sports are players unable to play a team sport because their focus is on getting three goals themselves vs. passing to win the team game.

It's a team sport. Incentivize by being a great team player maybe. Soooo many crappy plays I've seen by players playing a team sport as an individual goaded by horrible parenting.

Depending on the kids age you assume that a kid playing the game so that the team wins is developmentally important at all.

OP here. Yes, I do. At any age in team sports. They need to learn how to win/play their best with teamwork. That's the point. Watching kids who hog the ball because parents are rewarding individual goals is disappointing. Practice individual skills at home and come on the field to play as a team. Often, these ball hogs contribute to losing the game even if they are rock stars.

My kids are elementary/middle school aged < 13.

No, at U Little ages they do not need to learn how to win. If a kid is cherry picking talk to the kid but once the tone of winning is set that is the environment that is created. 4 v 4 U little soccer always has 'cherry pickers" whether they are being paid or not. The sad truth for those players is that the kids who lug the ball down the field are learning the technical skills that will pay off in the long run. If you don't like the cherry picking then educate both your players and their parents about what it is you are trying to accomplish, and the most important thing for them to learn at this age is touches, touches, touches, not "how to win" as a team.

My kids first travel coach told all the parents that "if you are here to win and get medals at U9 then leave now. If you want medals from U10-U12, leave now, this isn't the place for you." The things kids need to learn at these younger ages are skills and that is a individual journey. Developmentally, you must accept that at U Little ages you do in fact have 4 individuals on the field, they are not playing for each other anyways they are playing for themselves. Let them be ball hogs, let them learn to love and want the ball and let them find their own fun. Win or lose, by the time the kid gets into the car they have forgotten it anyways.

Yes, it's not about winning or medals, it's about playing as a team. Learning how to play as a team. The ball hog who dances down the field only to be surrounded at every play by three defenders, shooting and missing goals with a singular purpose of me getting a goal due to pay for play, isn't learning team
sports. OP. Sorry, my little kids know how to pass.

Then your kids are likely not particularly technical on the ball and you are particularly unaware of what is age appropriate developmentally for kids.

From ages 5-9 it is not being a "ball hog", it is a kid playing at their proper developmental age especially for U8's. Why do you think they play 4v4 and no keeper? You should be encouraging them to keep the ball as long as they can before they lose it. You should be encouraging them to play without fear of mistakes and always wanting the ball at their feet.

It is far easier to teach passing later but footskills, flair and confidence is not something that can later be developed. In fact, when footskills are developed passing is actually far easier to teach. When kids learn how far they can go without losing the ball then they will learn the value of passing.

[Anonymous]

iSoccer works just by telling kids they've moved up a level. Like a video game.

[Anonymous]

I've seen this, too. Yes, sometimes you get a kid who only wants to camp out in front of the goal or refuses to play anywhere else.

One coach put the ball hog (older than 7 but can't remember exact age) in goal. You want to be out there all the time? OK, play goal. The kid was throwing a fit because he couldn't score.

He would not pass, and would take the ball from his team mate. He sat and pouted in goal, wouldn't even try to stop the ball.

The coach suggested that he not come back until he was ready to play soccer and not just score goals. His incentive? $10 per goal, and he was saving for whatever gaming unit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this, too. Yes, sometimes you get a kid who only wants to camp out in front of the goal or refuses to play anywhere else.

One coach put the ball hog (older than 7 but can't remember exact age) in goal. You want to be out there all the time? OK, play goal. The kid was throwing a fit because he couldn't score.

He would not pass, and would take the ball from his team mate. He sat and pouted in goal, wouldn't even try to stop the ball.

The coach suggested that he not come back until he was ready to play soccer and not just score goals. His incentive? $10 per goal, and he was saving for whatever gaming unit.

Again, so what, he is camping and not getting valuable touches that are more important. As a coach you should understand that the goals are not the objective at this age, the touches are so rewarding at this age to score is counter productive. Just talk to the parents and explain that at some point there will be a rule called "offside" and that camping out will not be a way to score anymore, that footwork and eventually passing will be the only way to score.

Since the goals in U Littles mean nothing try your best to de-emphasize goals and scores and reward soccer moves with patches or lollipops or whatever.

[Anonymous]

When my shy son was smaller (U9) we offered to pay him $1 for every handshake he gave his teammates after they scored a goal. He never asked for the money after he complied -- the offer to pay only emphasized to him that it was something his parents thought was important and resonated more than a lecture. We also offered to pay him for juggles -- a set amount after he reached 20, 50 etc. This was because (as a previous poster said) juggling is reallydifficult at first and an incentive would help him overcome his frustration. Once he hit 20, it became easier as he mastered the mechanics and then beating his previous record or doing a trick became the motivation. He also never asked to for the money, but money in itself is not particularly motivating for him. He realized that mastering the skill was much more pleasurable than the offered reward.

We never paid him to score goals, or to do a cross-over or anything like that but coaches in training have offered other incentives for doing a skill, e.g. two points if a move is properly executed before a goal rather than one (this obviously only works in training but kids treat scrimmages like the World Cup) . It sounds more like the individual poster was frustrated that the promise of a reward was clouding the judgment of an otherwise unselfish child who would pass and share the ball with his teammates but for the incentive. Would there be an objection if the same parent was giving his child $1 for every completed pass? If the answer is no, then the real beef is not with giving rewards but is a fundamental disagreement with about how the game should be played at this age. There are plenty of parents at the younger ages standing on the sideline screaming at a kid (usually not their own kid) to "PASS THE BALL! PASS THE BALL!" and this is just as disruptive as paying a kid to take a shot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my shy son was smaller (U9) we offered to pay him $1 for every handshake he gave his teammates after they scored a goal. He never asked for the money after he complied -- the offer to pay only emphasized to him that it was something his parents thought was important and resonated more than a lecture. We also offered to pay him for juggles -- a set amount after he reached 20, 50 etc. This was because (as a previous poster said) juggling is reallydifficult at first and an incentive would help him overcome his frustration. Once he hit 20, it became easier as he mastered the mechanics and then beating his previous record or doing a trick became the motivation. He also never asked to for the money, but money in itself is not particularly motivating for him. He realized that mastering the skill was much more pleasurable than the offered reward.

We never paid him to score goals, or to do a cross-over or anything like that but coaches in training have offered other incentives for doing a skill, e.g. two points if a move is properly executed before a goal rather than one (this obviously only works in training but kids treat scrimmages like the World Cup) . It sounds more like the individual poster was frustrated that the promise of a reward was clouding the judgment of an otherwise unselfish child who would pass and share the ball with his teammates but for the incentive. Would there be an objection if the same parent was giving his child $1 for every completed pass? If the answer is no, then the real beef is not with giving rewards but is a fundamental disagreement with about how the game should be played at this age. There are plenty of parents at the younger ages standing on the sideline screaming at a kid (usually not their own kid) to "PASS THE BALL! PASS THE BALL!" and this is just as disruptive as paying a kid to take a shot.

Well said. While I have argued for rewards and incentives, and have myself made some similar mistakes, I simply feel that the emphasis on both rewarding scoring AND the outrage for rewarding scoring are both misguided for basically the same reason and that is simply this, "who cares", it is a U Little rec game. The parent paying the kid is wasting their money rewarding the wrong thing at that age and the parents angry about it are misguided in thinking team work is more important than ball at the feet fundamental technical play.

And on top of it, they are all way to concerned with the actual outcome of the game.

[Anonymous]

While this focuses on slightly older kids than are being discussed here, I think the emphasis on what is important even at the U10-U12 ages puts the emphasis on coaching younger kids a bit more in perspective:

http://soccerthought.com/player-development-series-perils-of-position-specialization/

[Anonymous]

I've seen kids get cell phones. I did give some icecream, etc. on several occasions, not so much for getting a goal but for putting in effort.