Team Sports, Stop paying your kids for individual goals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I suppose none of you give rewards for A's on a report card.

Rewards can be motivating to kids, the problem you have is what parents may choose to reward. If done properly and judiciously they can be used to help break bad habits or create new ones. They can also backfire. But if you think the juice box at the end of the game or the ice cream waiting for them isn't a Pavlovian reward for participating on a day that they perhaps had to be dragged out of bed or away from their favorite cartoon to go and play than you are lying to yourself.

But an A on a report card is, without question, the best thing you can do in a class.

Scoring a goal might not be the best thing for the team. Maybe someone else had a better shot. Or maybe the poor coach is watching a bunch of kids fight with each other to score goals while no one plays defense or moves the ball through midfield.

Want to promise a kid ice cream if he/she gives a good effort in a game -- or actually BEHAVES in a game? OK, fine. But don't save your rewards for the kids who hang out in front of the Pugg goal for a shot at big money.

If you read what I said you would have known that you can change the goals to more developmental type goals. Things like doing a move, lest you believe that to be show boating, or successful passes or overlaps or crosses. Whatever the hell you think your kid needs to work on in a game.

For u littles it could be to look up and pass. But honestly, if we are talking about 6 or 7 years old, I hate to tell you but it isn't developmentally a team game. At that age it is all 'me and my ball" to the kids. They are not mature enough to play a team game and even see beyond themselves, so rewarding a kid for the outcome of a goal is actually age appropriate.

From 7-8/9 it is "me and my friend" then by age 10 the concept of team actually kicks in.

So the rewards should be for accomplishments that are developmentally appropriate.

I didn't realize I was supposed to extrapolate all that from "what parents may choose to reward."

Sure, we don't see a lot of passing at U7, and we're generally not assigning real "positions." But you want kids to come back to their own half of the field on occasion if the ball happens to be there.

We coaches often give individualized goals, including specific moves. (Not showboating at all -- we want kids to try stuff, especially at this age!)

Good grief, at 6 years old they should just be working on technical skills. Worrying about a kid getting back in their half of the field is nice but you have 8 ball hogs on the field at the same time. Just put them on the field and let them play. If the parents want to reward the kid for goals who cares.

A teammate of my son's told his teammates openly that he was given $10 for every goal he scored. This was travel U9 a few years back. The boy did score some goals but developed into a selfish player that all the others knew would never pass the ball. Player never developed passing skills either. Shame as the kid had potential. My son moved clubs so lost track of $10 a goal boy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I suppose none of you give rewards for A's on a report card.

Rewards can be motivating to kids, the problem you have is what parents may choose to reward. If done properly and judiciously they can be used to help break bad habits or create new ones. They can also backfire. But if you think the juice box at the end of the game or the ice cream waiting for them isn't a Pavlovian reward for participating on a day that they perhaps had to be dragged out of bed or away from their favorite cartoon to go and play than you are lying to yourself.

But an A on a report card is, without question, the best thing you can do in a class.

Scoring a goal might not be the best thing for the team. Maybe someone else had a better shot. Or maybe the poor coach is watching a bunch of kids fight with each other to score goals while no one plays defense or moves the ball through midfield.

Want to promise a kid ice cream if he/she gives a good effort in a game -- or actually BEHAVES in a game? OK, fine. But don't save your rewards for the kids who hang out in front of the Pugg goal for a shot at big money.

If you read what I said you would have known that you can change the goals to more developmental type goals. Things like doing a move, lest you believe that to be show boating, or successful passes or overlaps or crosses. Whatever the hell you think your kid needs to work on in a game.

For u littles it could be to look up and pass. But honestly, if we are talking about 6 or 7 years old, I hate to tell you but it isn't developmentally a team game. At that age it is all 'me and my ball" to the kids. They are not mature enough to play a team game and even see beyond themselves, so rewarding a kid for the outcome of a goal is actually age appropriate.

From 7-8/9 it is "me and my friend" then by age 10 the concept of team actually kicks in.

So the rewards should be for accomplishments that are developmentally appropriate.

I didn't realize I was supposed to extrapolate all that from "what parents may choose to reward."

Sure, we don't see a lot of passing at U7, and we're generally not assigning real "positions." But you want kids to come back to their own half of the field on occasion if the ball happens to be there.

We coaches often give individualized goals, including specific moves. (Not showboating at all -- we want kids to try stuff, especially at this age!)

Good grief, at 6 years old they should just be working on technical skills. Worrying about a kid getting back in their half of the field is nice but you have 8 ball hogs on the field at the same time. Just put them on the field and let them play. If the parents want to reward the kid for goals who cares.

A teammate of my son's told his teammates openly that he was given $10 for every goal he scored. This was travel U9 a few years back. The boy did score some goals but developed into a selfish player that all the others knew would never pass the ball. Player never developed passing skills either. Shame as the kid had potential. My son moved clubs so lost track of $10 a goal boy.

Shitty parenting = shitty kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I suppose none of you give rewards for A's on a report card.

Rewards can be motivating to kids, the problem you have is what parents may choose to reward. If done properly and judiciously they can be used to help break bad habits or create new ones. They can also backfire. But if you think the juice box at the end of the game or the ice cream waiting for them isn't a Pavlovian reward for participating on a day that they perhaps had to be dragged out of bed or away from their favorite cartoon to go and play than you are lying to yourself.

But an A on a report card is, without question, the best thing you can do in a class.

Scoring a goal might not be the best thing for the team. Maybe someone else had a better shot. Or maybe the poor coach is watching a bunch of kids fight with each other to score goals while no one plays defense or moves the ball through midfield.

Want to promise a kid ice cream if he/she gives a good effort in a game -- or actually BEHAVES in a game? OK, fine. But don't save your rewards for the kids who hang out in front of the Pugg goal for a shot at big money.

If you read what I said you would have known that you can change the goals to more developmental type goals. Things like doing a move, lest you believe that to be show boating, or successful passes or overlaps or crosses. Whatever the hell you think your kid needs to work on in a game.

For u littles it could be to look up and pass. But honestly, if we are talking about 6 or 7 years old, I hate to tell you but it isn't developmentally a team game. At that age it is all 'me and my ball" to the kids. They are not mature enough to play a team game and even see beyond themselves, so rewarding a kid for the outcome of a goal is actually age appropriate.

From 7-8/9 it is "me and my friend" then by age 10 the concept of team actually kicks in.

So the rewards should be for accomplishments that are developmentally appropriate.

I didn't realize I was supposed to extrapolate all that from "what parents may choose to reward."

Sure, we don't see a lot of passing at U7, and we're generally not assigning real "positions." But you want kids to come back to their own half of the field on occasion if the ball happens to be there.

We coaches often give individualized goals, including specific moves. (Not showboating at all -- we want kids to try stuff, especially at this age!)

Good grief, at 6 years old they should just be working on technical skills. Worrying about a kid getting back in their half of the field is nice but you have 8 ball hogs on the field at the same time. Just put them on the field and let them play. If the parents want to reward the kid for goals who cares.

I'm well aware of what U7s should be working on.

Cherry-picking in front of the goal is not it.

And yes, I've seen players do that.

[Anonymous]

Like PP who wrote about her brother, we have one child who is timid but LOVES to play. *We are not forcing her to play, we are helping her not be the worst player standing on the field. Which has mattered, because other teammates have yelled at her/criticized her at halftime, no joke. So she ended up in tears.* We incent her (my DH pays her $20 per goal). It has *helped* her play to be incented to shoot. She is a great passer and team player and needs the boost to get the courage up to shoot. It's helped some. She now shoots occasionally (not as much as some other kids but not NEVER). She also needs to play more aggressively/physically, so she knows that her dad will be thrilled (& shower her with praise) if she comes up with the ball and the other kid ends up on the ground. Flame away. I think it will do her well in life not to shy away from conflict and to be assertive/stand up for herself. Also, we are super proud of her for being so persistent in something that clearly doesn't come naturally to her.

Her brother, who routinely scores hattricks, is never incented by us to shoot. He doesn't need it (is massively competitive).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP back. I'm fine with bribes/money for individual sport achievements (3k, etc...), grades, chores. The huge difference I see on the field of team sports are players unable to play a team sport because their focus is on getting three goals themselves vs. passing to win the team game.

It's a team sport. Incentivize by being a great team player maybe. Soooo many crappy plays I've seen by players playing a team sport as an individual goaded by horrible parenting.

Depending on the kids age you assume that a kid playing the game so that the team wins is developmentally important at all.

OP here. Yes, I do. At any age in team sports. They need to learn how to win/play their best with teamwork. That's the point. Watching kids who hog the ball because parents are rewarding individual goals is disappointing. Practice individual skills at home and come on the field to play as a team. Often, these ball hogs contribute to losing the game even if they are rock stars.

My kids are elementary/middle school aged < 13.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like PP who wrote about her brother, we have one child who is timid but LOVES to play. *We are not forcing her to play, we are helping her not be the worst player standing on the field. Which has mattered, because other teammates have yelled at her/criticized her at halftime, no joke. So she ended up in tears.* We incent her (my DH pays her $20 per goal). It has *helped* her play to be incented to shoot. She is a great passer and team player and needs the boost to get the courage up to shoot. It's helped some. She now shoots occasionally (not as much as some other kids but not NEVER). She also needs to play more aggressively/physically, so she knows that her dad will be thrilled (& shower her with praise) if she comes up with the ball and the other kid ends up on the ground. Flame away. I think it will do her well in life not to shy away from conflict and to be assertive/stand up for herself. Also, we are super proud of her for being so persistent in something that clearly doesn't come naturally to her.

Her brother, who routinely scores hattricks, is never incented by us to shoot. He doesn't need it (is massively competitive).

This is the strangest retelling of the Prodigal Son fable I've ever read.

[Anonymous]

I think I love you PP. Thanks for the chuckle.

OP here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP who wrote about her brother, we have one child who is timid but LOVES to play. *We are not forcing her to play, we are helping her not be the worst player standing on the field. Which has mattered, because other teammates have yelled at her/criticized her at halftime, no joke. So she ended up in tears.* We incent her (my DH pays her $20 per goal). It has *helped* her play to be incented to shoot. She is a great passer and team player and needs the boost to get the courage up to shoot. It's helped some. She now shoots occasionally (not as much as some other kids but not NEVER). She also needs to play more aggressively/physically, so she knows that her dad will be thrilled (& shower her with praise) if she comes up with the ball and the other kid ends up on the ground. Flame away. I think it will do her well in life not to shy away from conflict and to be assertive/stand up for herself. Also, we are super proud of her for being so persistent in something that clearly doesn't come naturally to her.

Her brother, who routinely scores hattricks, is never incented by us to shoot. He doesn't need it (is massively competitive).

This is the strangest retelling of the Prodigal Son fable I've ever read.

It makes complete sense, you have to parent the child you have, and it seems as if this child in particularly would never be selfish, since she knows her parents will also reward passing and cooperating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother got paid for goals but it's because he was q shitty and nervous player and they wanted him to get more involved.... and it was like, we will pay you fifty bucks if you make one goal this season.

How did that work out for him?

It probably didn't work for him, but if he was a nervous player who wouldn't get involved how much of a negative effect on the team do you think the incentive had versus the alternative?

I mean how'd he turn out in life? Okay? Happy?
Did he ever play a sport again? Any sports as an adult?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And I suppose none of you give rewards for A's on a report card.

Rewards can be motivating to kids, the problem you have is what parents may choose to reward. If done properly and judiciously they can be used to help break bad habits or create new ones. They can also backfire. But if you think the juice box at the end of the game or the ice cream waiting for them isn't a Pavlovian reward for participating on a day that they perhaps had to be dragged out of bed or away from their favorite cartoon to go and play than you are lying to yourself.

No. Giving $$$ for an A is pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Wow, my poor kids don't get money for anything! Yet both somehow manage all As, high test scores, and they even help around the house. Youngest is at the top of the region in his sport with a wall full of medals that he hasn't been paid a cent to earn.

In the real world, you don't get rewarded for everything. Even at work, most jobs outside of sales don't have a day-to-day correlation between pay and performance (oh, you helped Joe with his presentation? Here's $100!). You have to develop some other intrinsic motivation. Paying kids for grades, sports performance, etc. prevents them from developing that internal pride in doing the right thing and working hard.

[Anonymous]

I've never heard of this. Literally. As a collegiate athlete married to another NCAA athlete I'm floored. I asked my husband if he would ever consider this and he laughed out loud. If this is how other parents are incenting their kids I can only be thankful that our kids will have a leg up as they will be self motivated in a world of kids who only know how to play for pay. How inane.

[Anonymous]

This may be a separate discussion, but after every game, give your kid a hug, ask if he/she had fun, and save the dissection of how things went for another time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I suppose none of you give rewards for A's on a report card.

Rewards can be motivating to kids, the problem you have is what parents may choose to reward. If done properly and judiciously they can be used to help break bad habits or create new ones. They can also backfire. But if you think the juice box at the end of the game or the ice cream waiting for them isn't a Pavlovian reward for participating on a day that they perhaps had to be dragged out of bed or away from their favorite cartoon to go and play than you are lying to yourself.

No. Giving $$$ for an A is pathetic.

Maybe but it got my brother through HS and college. Very intelligent but couldn't care less if he got an A or a D.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP back. I'm fine with bribes/money for individual sport achievements (3k, etc...), grades, chores. The huge difference I see on the field of team sports are players unable to play a team sport because their focus is on getting three goals themselves vs. passing to win the team game.

It's a team sport. Incentivize by being a great team player maybe. Soooo many crappy plays I've seen by players playing a team sport as an individual goaded by horrible parenting.

Depending on the kids age you assume that a kid playing the game so that the team wins is developmentally important at all.

OP here. Yes, I do. At any age in team sports. They need to learn how to win/play their best with teamwork. That's the point. Watching kids who hog the ball because parents are rewarding individual goals is disappointing. Practice individual skills at home and come on the field to play as a team. Often, these ball hogs contribute to losing the game even if they are rock stars.

My kids are elementary/middle school aged < 13.

No, at U Little ages they do not need to learn how to win. If a kid is cherry picking talk to the kid but once the tone of winning is set that is the environment that is created. 4 v 4 U little soccer always has 'cherry pickers" whether they are being paid or not. The sad truth for those players is that the kids who lug the ball down the field are learning the technical skills that will pay off in the long run. If you don't like the cherry picking then educate both your players and their parents about what it is you are trying to accomplish, and the most important thing for them to learn at this age is touches, touches, touches, not "how to win" as a team.

My kids first travel coach told all the parents that "if you are here to win and get medals at U9 then leave now. If you want medals from U10-U12, leave now, this isn't the place for you." The things kids need to learn at these younger ages are skills and that is a individual journey. Developmentally, you must accept that at U Little ages you do in fact have 4 individuals on the field, they are not playing for each other anyways they are playing for themselves. Let them be ball hogs, let them learn to love and want the ball and let them find their own fun. Win or lose, by the time the kid gets into the car they have forgotten it anyways.