Why do schools not let mingle gen-ed kids with AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don't understand the ",missed opportunities" of friendship. In that dopey scenario aren't 4th graders missing out on friendships with 3rd and 5th graders because they aren't in the same classes? Aren't kids who live in the same large neighborhood but are split between School A and School B missing out on
friendships?

A child doesn't need to be exposed to 150 kids to make friends. In some small schools there may only be two classes in the grade. Are those kids suffering because there aren't another 50-75 peers at the school?

It really is looking for a problem where there shouldn't be one.

I think the problem is that there's an academic segregation going on at the center schools. So that the GE kids never get to hang out with the academic superstars and the academic superstars never hang out with kids who may be on grade level or even struggling. This makes for a very segregated way of living and was the reason tracking went away in the first place. I think many people are supportive of kids getting lessons at their academic level. What they aren't supportive of is situation in elementary where kids are only with like minded kids whether that's race, intelligence, or parent income level. In high school it makes more sense to specialize because children are figuring out what they want to major in. Can you not understand how a kid who is in GE might think he's too dumb to even hang out with the AAP kids if they are so segregated or an AAP kid thinking the other kids are so dumb they aren't worth hanging out with? That type of attitude stays with people throughout their lives.

Do you just not believe the posts above telling you that AAP and Gen Ed kids do share certain classes and more? Specials, PE, recess, field trips (maybe your school doesn't mix groups for field trips but others do), all-grade activities like the third grade and sixth grade plays at our former center school. My kid is going on a field trip tomorrow in her AAP center middle school and the groups for the day are mixed. Yes, the kids are "segregated" academically for the core academic subjects, since you insist on using that term. That separation into classes based on aptitude and the speed and depth of teaching is the entire point of an advanced academic program. But the schools do mix these in other ways.

You just seem to ignore that fact, and the previous posts giving you other examples. It sounds as if you would prefer no academic differentiation by class, but won't come right out and say it.

As for the sentence in bold above -- that is a huge generalization that manages to stereotype both AAP and Gen Ed kids in a single sentence, the former as superior snots and the latter as woefully considering themselves dumb. Way to insult both groups at once.

Another suggestion. Send out a survey asking parents what they like and don't like about the school as a PTA. Include a question or two on how the school is set up and whether parents would like more or less mingling of AAP and general ed children and if so, how? Ask whether they are parents of general ed or AAP students. You will find out whether there is a good amount of mingling or not easily.

[Anonymous]

We're back to segregation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're back to segregation.

One person's "segregation" is another person's "differentiation."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don't understand the ",missed opportunities" of friendship. In that dopey scenario aren't 4th graders missing out on friendships with 3rd and 5th graders because they aren't in the same classes? Aren't kids who live in the same large neighborhood but are split between School A and School B missing out on
friendships?

A child doesn't need to be exposed to 150 kids to make friends. In some small schools there may only be two classes in the grade. Are those kids suffering because there aren't another 50-75 peers at the school?

It really is looking for a problem where there shouldn't be one.

I think the problem is that there's an academic segregation going on at the center schools. So that the GE kids never get to hang out with the academic superstars and the academic superstars never hang out with kids who may be on grade level or even struggling. This makes for a very segregated way of living and was the reason tracking went away in the first place. I think many people are supportive of kids getting lessons at their academic level. What they aren't supportive of is situation in elementary where kids are only with like minded kids whether that's race, intelligence, or parent income level. In high school it makes more sense to specialize because children are figuring out what they want to major in. Can you not understand how a kid who is in GE might think he's too dumb to even hang out with the AAP kids if they are so segregated or an AAP kid thinking the other kids are so dumb they aren't worth hanging out with? That type of attitude stays with people throughout their lives.

Do you just not believe the posts above telling you that AAP and Gen Ed kids do share certain classes and more? Specials, PE, recess, field trips (maybe your school doesn't mix groups for field trips but others do), all-grade activities like the third grade and sixth grade plays at our former center school. My kid is going on a field trip tomorrow in her AAP center middle school and the groups for the day are mixed. Yes, the kids are "segregated" academically for the core academic subjects, since you insist on using that term. That separation into classes based on aptitude and the speed and depth of teaching is the entire point of an advanced academic program. But the schools do mix these in other ways.

You just seem to ignore that fact, and the previous posts giving you other examples. It sounds as if you would prefer no academic differentiation by class, but won't come right out and say it.

As for the sentence in bold above -- that is a huge generalization that manages to stereotype both AAP and Gen Ed kids in a single sentence, the former as superior snots and the latter as woefully considering themselves dumb. Way to insult both groups at once.

There is a topic right also active entitled "Why I hate AAP". I haven't posted once on this and yet there are pages of comments. While it is a stereotype, there are certainly kids on both sides who feel this way hence the reason for the stereotype. Not all of course, but it is still an issue. As a parent of an AAP child at a center elementary school, how many new friends did your child make at the center who were not in K-2 with them or in AAP? How many of those new kids did you had over to your house during grades 3-5? How about their parents?

Ok. Back at you.

As the established student at the school, how many new kids in the AAP program did your chikd reach out to? How many of them did she welcome? Try to get to know? How many names of these new kids did she know?

What about you? How many of the new AAP parents did you welcome to your school? Invite to the PTA meeting? Try to make feel like they were welcome in the commuity?

As someone who moved many times as my life and who now is established in an actual neighborhood and home, I always feel that it is proper manners and common courtesy for tue established folks to be the ones to reach out to and welcome newcomers. Yes, newcomers should be friendly but those already comfortable and established should be the ones extending hospitality.

If your school breeds so much hostility than perhaps you, the established one, is part of the problem.

Change your attitude and show som basic manners and perhaps you will find out that your stereotypes are, with very few exceptions, just that...unfounded stereotypes.

You might...gasp...discover that most of these AAP encroachers are actually quite nice and would love to be welcomed into the school community instead of being shunned, gossiped about and resented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don't understand the ",missed opportunities" of friendship. In that dopey scenario aren't 4th graders missing out on friendships with 3rd and 5th graders because they aren't in the same classes? Aren't kids who live in the same large neighborhood but are split between School A and School B missing out on
friendships?

A child doesn't need to be exposed to 150 kids to make friends. In some small schools there may only be two classes in the grade. Are those kids suffering because there aren't another 50-75 peers at the school?

It really is looking for a problem where there shouldn't be one.

I think the problem is that there's an academic segregation going on at the center schools. So that the GE kids never get to hang out with the academic superstars and the academic superstars never hang out with kids who may be on grade level or even struggling. This makes for a very segregated way of living and was the reason tracking went away in the first place. I think many people are supportive of kids getting lessons at their academic level. What they aren't supportive of is situation in elementary where kids are only with like minded kids whether that's race, intelligence, or parent income level. In high school it makes more sense to specialize because children are figuring out what they want to major in. Can you not understand how a kid who is in GE might think he's too dumb to even hang out with the AAP kids if they are so segregated or an AAP kid thinking the other kids are so dumb they aren't worth hanging out with? That type of attitude stays with people throughout their lives.

Do you just not believe the posts above telling you that AAP and Gen Ed kids do share certain classes and more? Specials, PE, recess, field trips (maybe your school doesn't mix groups for field trips but others do), all-grade activities like the third grade and sixth grade plays at our former center school. My kid is going on a field trip tomorrow in her AAP center middle school and the groups for the day are mixed. Yes, the kids are "segregated" academically for the core academic subjects, since you insist on using that term. That separation into classes based on aptitude and the speed and depth of teaching is the entire point of an advanced academic program. But the schools do mix these in other ways.

You just seem to ignore that fact, and the previous posts giving you other examples. It sounds as if you would prefer no academic differentiation by class, but won't come right out and say it.

As for the sentence in bold above -- that is a huge generalization that manages to stereotype both AAP and Gen Ed kids in a single sentence, the former as superior snots and the latter as woefully considering themselves dumb. Way to insult both groups at once.

There is a topic right also active entitled "Why I hate AAP". I haven't posted once on this and yet there are pages of comments. While it is a stereotype, there are certainly kids on both sides who feel this way hence the reason for the stereotype. Not all of course, but it is still an issue. As a parent of an AAP child at a center elementary school, how many new friends did your child make at the center who were not in K-2 with them or in AAP? How many of those new kids did you had over to your house during grades 3-5? How about their parents?

Ok. Back at you.

As the established student at the school, how many new kids in the AAP program did your chikd reach out to? How many of them did she welcome? Try to get to know? How many names of these new kids did she know?

What about you? How many of the new AAP parents did you welcome to your school? Invite to the PTA meeting? Try to make feel like they were welcome in the commuity?

As someone who moved many times as my life and who now is established in an actual neighborhood and home, I always feel that it is proper manners and common courtesy for tue established folks to be the ones to reach out to and welcome newcomers. Yes, newcomers should be friendly but those already comfortable and established should be the ones extending hospitality.

If your school breeds so much hostility than perhaps you, the established one, is part of the problem.

Change your attitude and show som basic manners and perhaps you will find out that your stereotypes are, with very few exceptions, just that...unfounded stereotypes.

You might...gasp...discover that most of these AAP encroachers are actually quite nice and would love to be welcomed into the school community instead of being shunned, gossiped about and resented.

I'm actually a parent of an AAP student and have reached out to others both new AAP students and general ed children. Just reporting what I see of other parents not as interested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school pays lip service to mixing, but the reality is all students have to sit with their class at lunch, so they can't sit with friends in other classes. On field trips, each class divides into groups from that same class, and they have to stay together, so no mingling there either (or on the bus, as kids have to sit with their classes). They are mixed in specials and I think at recess, but that's about it. It makes no sense to keep these kids separate. They're missing out on friendships they would otherwise have made if they weren't segregated into separate classrooms.

Every single elementary school in the county seats kids at lunch by class and loads the busses for field trips by class.

For the lunches it is a timing/scheduling thing based on bringing classes to the cafeteria together and collecting each class at the same time so the tables are scattered properly forcleaning and flipping for the next class of kids.

For field trips, keeping homeroom classes together is a safe and easy way not to lose kids along the way.

Those two issues would happen whether or not your school has AAP and has zero to do with keeping kids in different programs segregated.

You are creating an issue where there is none in these two specific examples.

And you are wrong about the lunch issue - there are schools in which the kids are allowed to sit with their friends (among the same grade). I haven't created any issue. The issue is that the kids complain they can't visit with their other friends during lunch.

Name one elementary school. Our kids have attended schools all over the country and not one of them allows the kids to sit anywhere they want. Middle schools do but not elementary schools.

Given how crowded fcps elementaries are I can't imagine any of them have the elementary kids sitting anywhere in the cafeteria and not by clasw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don't understand the ",missed opportunities" of friendship. In that dopey scenario aren't 4th graders missing out on friendships with 3rd and 5th graders because they aren't in the same classes? Aren't kids who live in the same large neighborhood but are split between School A and School B missing out on
friendships?

A child doesn't need to be exposed to 150 kids to make friends. In some small schools there may only be two classes in the grade. Are those kids suffering because there aren't another 50-75 peers at the school?

It really is looking for a problem where there shouldn't be one.

I think the problem is that there's an academic segregation going on at the center schools. So that the GE kids never get to hang out with the academic superstars and the academic superstars never hang out with kids who may be on grade level or even struggling. This makes for a very segregated way of living and was the reason tracking went away in the first place. I think many people are supportive of kids getting lessons at their academic level. What they aren't supportive of is situation in elementary where kids are only with like minded kids whether that's race, intelligence, or parent income level. In high school it makes more sense to specialize because children are figuring out what they want to major in. Can you not understand how a kid who is in GE might think he's too dumb to even hang out with the AAP kids if they are so segregated or an AAP kid thinking the other kids are so dumb they aren't worth hanging out with? That type of attitude stays with people throughout their lives.

Do you just not believe the posts above telling you that AAP and Gen Ed kids do share certain classes and more? Specials, PE, recess, field trips (maybe your school doesn't mix groups for field trips but others do), all-grade activities like the third grade and sixth grade plays at our former center school. My kid is going on a field trip tomorrow in her AAP center middle school and the groups for the day are mixed. Yes, the kids are "segregated" academically for the core academic subjects, since you insist on using that term. That separation into classes based on aptitude and the speed and depth of teaching is the entire point of an advanced academic program. But the schools do mix these in other ways.

You just seem to ignore that fact, and the previous posts giving you other examples. It sounds as if you would prefer no academic differentiation by class, but won't come right out and say it.

As for the sentence in bold above -- that is a huge generalization that manages to stereotype both AAP and Gen Ed kids in a single sentence, the former as superior snots and the latter as woefully considering themselves dumb. Way to insult both groups at once.

There is a topic right also active entitled "Why I hate AAP". I haven't posted once on this and yet there are pages of comments. While it is a stereotype, there are certainly kids on both sides who feel this way hence the reason for the stereotype. Not all of course, but it is still an issue. As a parent of an AAP child at a center elementary school, how many new friends did your child make at the center who were not in K-2 with them or in AAP? How many of those new kids did you had over to your house during grades 3-5? How about their parents?

Ok. Back at you.

As the established student at the school, how many new kids in the AAP program did your chikd reach out to? How many of them did she welcome? Try to get to know? How many names of these new kids did she know?

What about you? How many of the new AAP parents did you welcome to your school? Invite to the PTA meeting? Try to make feel like they were welcome in the commuity?

As someone who moved many times as my life and who now is established in an actual neighborhood and home, I always feel that it is proper manners and common courtesy for tue established folks to be the ones to reach out to and welcome newcomers. Yes, newcomers should be friendly but those already comfortable and established should be the ones extending hospitality.

If your school breeds so much hostility than perhaps you, the established one, is part of the problem.

Change your attitude and show som basic manners and perhaps you will find out that your stereotypes are, with very few exceptions, just that...unfounded stereotypes.

You might...gasp...discover that most of these AAP encroachers are actually quite nice and would love to be welcomed into the school community instead of being shunned, gossiped about and resented.

I'm actually a parent of an AAP student and have reached out to others both new AAP students and general ed children. Just reporting what I see of other parents not as interested.

I answered your questions. Now please answer mine instead of deflecting back to me.

[Anonymous]

23:45, I think there are several posters in that quote.

[Anonymous]

And you are wrong about the lunch issue - there are schools in which the kids are allowed to sit with their friends (among the same grade). I haven't created any issue. The issue is that the kids complain they can't visit with their other friends during lunch.

Name one elementary school. Our kids have attended schools all over the country and not one of them allows the kids to sit anywhere they want. Middle schools do but not elementary schools.

Given how crowded fcps elementaries are I can't imagine any of them have the elementary kids sitting anywhere in the cafeteria and not by clasw.

Well, as of two years ago, Mantua. Beginning with grade 3, the whole grade goes to lunch as a class and they can sit where they like. Then they all go out to recess together.

For the person who complained about the lines, there are 2 lines and it seemed to move pretty fast from what I observed the occasional times that I when to lunch. It isn't a small school, 900-1000 kids, and about 6 classes per grade.

And actually, the MS, Frost, does NOT let them sit where they want. They have tables. And the lines are MUCH longer. My child would occasionally buy lunch in ES, but never buys in MS because of the lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school pays lip service to mixing, but the reality is all students have to sit with their class at lunch, so they can't sit with friends in other classes. On field trips, each class divides into groups from that same class, and they have to stay together, so no mingling there either (or on the bus, as kids have to sit with their classes). They are mixed in specials and I think at recess, but that's about it. It makes no sense to keep these kids separate. They're missing out on friendships they would otherwise have made if they weren't segregated into separate classrooms.

Every single elementary school in the county seats kids at lunch by class and loads the busses for field trips by class.

For the lunches it is a timing/scheduling thing based on bringing classes to the cafeteria together and collecting each class at the same time so the tables are scattered properly forcleaning and flipping for the next class of kids.

For field trips, keeping homeroom classes together is a safe and easy way not to lose kids along the way.

Those two issues would happen whether or not your school has AAP and has zero to do with keeping kids in different programs segregated.

You are creating an issue where there is none in these two specific examples.

And you are wrong about the lunch issue - there are schools in which the kids are allowed to sit with their friends (among the same grade). I haven't created any issue. The issue is that the kids complain they can't visit with their other friends during lunch.

Name one elementary school. Our kids have attended schools all over the country and not one of them allows the kids to sit anywhere they want. Middle schools do but not elementary schools.

Given how crowded fcps elementaries are I can't imagine any of them have the elementary kids sitting anywhere in the cafeteria and not by clasw.

I'm the PP and clearly stated "among the same grade". There was another PP who said her elementary school allows the kids to sit with their friends, regardless of class, among the same grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don't understand the ",missed opportunities" of friendship. In that dopey scenario aren't 4th graders missing out on friendships with 3rd and 5th graders because they aren't in the same classes? Aren't kids who live in the same large neighborhood but are split between School A and School B missing out on
friendships?

A child doesn't need to be exposed to 150 kids to make friends. In some small schools there may only be two classes in the grade. Are those kids suffering because there aren't another 50-75 peers at the school?

It really is looking for a problem where there shouldn't be one.

I think the problem is that there's an academic segregation going on at the center schools. So that the GE kids never get to hang out with the academic superstars and the academic superstars never hang out with kids who may be on grade level or even struggling. This makes for a very segregated way of living and was the reason tracking went away in the first place. I think many people are supportive of kids getting lessons at their academic level. What they aren't supportive of is situation in elementary where kids are only with like minded kids whether that's race, intelligence, or parent income level. In high school it makes more sense to specialize because children are figuring out what they want to major in. Can you not understand how a kid who is in GE might think he's too dumb to even hang out with the AAP kids if they are so segregated or an AAP kid thinking the other kids are so dumb they aren't worth hanging out with? That type of attitude stays with people throughout their lives.

Do you just not believe the posts above telling you that AAP and Gen Ed kids do share certain classes and more? Specials, PE, recess, field trips (maybe your school doesn't mix groups for field trips but others do), all-grade activities like the third grade and sixth grade plays at our former center school. My kid is going on a field trip tomorrow in her AAP center middle school and the groups for the day are mixed. Yes, the kids are "segregated" academically for the core academic subjects, since you insist on using that term. That separation into classes based on aptitude and the speed and depth of teaching is the entire point of an advanced academic program. But the schools do mix these in other ways.

You just seem to ignore that fact, and the previous posts giving you other examples. It sounds as if you would prefer no academic differentiation by class, but won't come right out and say it.

As for the sentence in bold above -- that is a huge generalization that manages to stereotype both AAP and Gen Ed kids in a single sentence, the former as superior snots and the latter as woefully considering themselves dumb. Way to insult both groups at once.

There is a topic right also active entitled "Why I hate AAP". I haven't posted once on this and yet there are pages of comments. While it is a stereotype, there are certainly kids on both sides who feel this way hence the reason for the stereotype. Not all of course, but it is still an issue. As a parent of an AAP child at a center elementary school, how many new friends did your child make at the center who were not in K-2 with them or in AAP? How many of those new kids did you had over to your house during grades 3-5? How about their parents?

Ok. Back at you.

As the established student at the school, how many new kids in the AAP program did your chikd reach out to? How many of them did she welcome? Try to get to know? How many names of these new kids did she know?

What about you? How many of the new AAP parents did you welcome to your school? Invite to the PTA meeting? Try to make feel like they were welcome in the commuity?

As someone who moved many times as my life and who now is established in an actual neighborhood and home, I always feel that it is proper manners and common courtesy for tue established folks to be the ones to reach out to and welcome newcomers. Yes, newcomers should be friendly but those already comfortable and established should be the ones extending hospitality.

If your school breeds so much hostility than perhaps you, the established one, is part of the problem.

Change your attitude and show som basic manners and perhaps you will find out that your stereotypes are, with very few exceptions, just that...unfounded stereotypes.

You might...gasp...discover that most of these AAP encroachers are actually quite nice and would love to be welcomed into the school community instead of being shunned, gossiped about and resented.

I find this amusing. Whenever I strike up a conversation with a parent of an AAP child, as soon as they realize my child is in Gen Ed, they completely check out of the conversation. You can actually see the moment when it occurs - it's blatant. So I've lost interest in going out of my way to be friendly to parents who clearly aren't going to reciprocate. Predictably, one of you will say it's just "my imagination". That's because you haven't been on the receiving end of this kind of boorish behavior.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I do understand that schools must be keeping kids separate from managing perspective. It is heart aching to see the kids feel that they have a restricted/almost no access in school to the friends that they made in k-2, or they have made in other activities that they do outside of school because they are AAP / Gen Ed or vice versa. i wish the schools could come up with more innovative ways to mingle the kids. I am not trying to say one is superior than other or so. I have respect for both the programs,just wish that outside of the boundaries of academic needs, kids should not have to stay away from each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: i wish the schools could come up with more innovative ways to mingle the kids. I am not trying to say one is superior than other or so. I have respect for both the programs,just wish that outside of the boundaries of academic needs, kids should not have to stay away from each other.

Our school has everyone mixing together.

I think you have an issue with a specific school vs. all the schools. You may wish to raise this issue with the principal of your school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And actually, the MS, Frost, does NOT let them sit where they want. They have tables. And the lines are MUCH longer. My child would occasionally buy lunch in ES, but never buys in MS because of the lines.

Interesting. My DS goes to Frost MS and he can sit where he wants. He opts for the nut free table (where most of his friends sit). And he buys lunch pretty frequently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No idea. Our school mixes kids.

+1