Why do schools not let mingle gen-ed kids with AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don't understand the ",missed opportunities" of friendship. In that dopey scenario aren't 4th graders missing out on friendships with 3rd and 5th graders because they aren't in the same classes? Aren't kids who live in the same large neighborhood but are split between School A and School B missing out on
friendships?

A child doesn't need to be exposed to 150 kids to make friends. In some small schools there may only be two classes in the grade. Are those kids suffering because there aren't another 50-75 peers at the school?

It really is looking for a problem where there shouldn't be one.

I think the problem is that there's an academic segregation going on at the center schools. So that the GE kids never get to hang out with the academic superstars and the academic superstars never hang out with kids who may be on grade level or even struggling. This makes for a very segregated way of living and was the reason tracking went away in the first place. I think many people are supportive of kids getting lessons at their academic level. What they aren't supportive of is situation in elementary where kids are only with like minded kids whether that's race, intelligence, or parent income level. In high school it makes more sense to specialize because children are figuring out what they want to major in. Can you not understand how a kid who is in GE might think he's too dumb to even hang out with the AAP kids if they are so segregated or an AAP kid thinking the other kids are so dumb they aren't worth hanging out with? That type of attitude stays with people throughout their lives.

you're assuming or projecting that kids in each group think the AAP kids are superior and the non-AAP kids are inferior. I don't think that is happening. They just simply don't think about the other group...at all. Maybe at some schools your presumed mindset is true. It's not something I'm aware of at my kid's school... maybe b/c the parents aren't in a twist about who's in AAP and who's not. They are simply co-located. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that.... also, I take issue with your suggestion that the non-AAP classes are all "on grade level or struggling" -- there are smart, capable kids in non-AAP classes as well. You make non-AAP seem like it is second class. That's not how I see it (I also have a kid in gen. ed), that's not how my AAP kid sees it (DC doesn't think of the non-AAP kids AT ALL), and that's not how my gen. ed kid sees it (DC2 doesn't think of the AAP kids at all and doesn't desire to be an AAP kid).

Well it definitely is happening because people have complaining on this board for years. What do you think is the reason so many are against AAP? I think the issue of the two not mingling is the crux of the matter. I also don't want to live in your world where people don't notice each other "at all". I think there is something inherently wrong with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school pays lip service to mixing, but the reality is all students have to sit with their class at lunch, so they can't sit with friends in other classes. On field trips, each class divides into groups from that same class, and they have to stay together, so no mingling there either (or on the bus, as kids have to sit with their classes). They are mixed in specials and I think at recess, but that's about it. It makes no sense to keep these kids separate. They're missing out on friendships they would otherwise have made if they weren't segregated into separate classrooms.

+1

If classes generally stay together as a group for lunch, field trips, etc. then the non-AAP students are also staying with their class and missing out on friendships with other kids too. Why blow it out of proportion with such negative finger pointing a AAP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school pays lip service to mixing, but the reality is all students have to sit with their class at lunch, so they can't sit with friends in other classes. On field trips, each class divides into groups from that same class, and they have to stay together, so no mingling there either (or on the bus, as kids have to sit with their classes). They are mixed in specials and I think at recess, but that's about it. It makes no sense to keep these kids separate. They're missing out on friendships they would otherwise have made if they weren't segregated into separate classrooms.

+1

If classes generally stay together as a group for lunch, field trips, etc. then the non-AAP students are also staying with their class and missing out on friendships with other kids too. Why blow it out of proportion with such negative finger pointing a AAP?

Because the AAP program is the one setting itself apart, not the GE program. The GE parents aren't clamoring not to have AAP kids in their classes. I agree, both are missing out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school pays lip service to mixing, but the reality is all students have to sit with their class at lunch, so they can't sit with friends in other classes. On field trips, each class divides into groups from that same class, and they have to stay together, so no mingling there either (or on the bus, as kids have to sit with their classes). They are mixed in specials and I think at recess, but that's about it. It makes no sense to keep these kids separate. They're missing out on friendships they would otherwise have made if they weren't segregated into separate classrooms.

+1

If classes generally stay together as a group for lunch, field trips, etc. then the non-AAP students are also staying with their class and missing out on friendships with other kids too. Why blow it out of proportion with such negative finger pointing a AAP?

Am I missing something, the original poster did not even mention AAP word in the post, not sure where is negativity about AAP reflected.

[Anonymous]

Why do schools not let mingle gen-ed kids with AAP.

This is the title of the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do schools not let mingle gen-ed kids with AAP.

This is the title of the thread.

Still where is negativity. It is just a question why are kids segregated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don't understand the ",missed opportunities" of friendship. In that dopey scenario aren't 4th graders missing out on friendships with 3rd and 5th graders because they aren't in the same classes? Aren't kids who live in the same large neighborhood but are split between School A and School B missing out on
friendships?

A child doesn't need to be exposed to 150 kids to make friends. In some small schools there may only be two classes in the grade. Are those kids suffering because there aren't another 50-75 peers at the school?

It really is looking for a problem where there shouldn't be one.

I think the problem is that there's an academic segregation going on at the center schools. So that the GE kids never get to hang out with the academic superstars and the academic superstars never hang out with kids who may be on grade level or even struggling. This makes for a very segregated way of living and was the reason tracking went away in the first place. I think many people are supportive of kids getting lessons at their academic level. What they aren't supportive of is situation in elementary where kids are only with like minded kids whether that's race, intelligence, or parent income level. In high school it makes more sense to specialize because children are figuring out what they want to major in. Can you not understand how a kid who is in GE might think he's too dumb to even hang out with the AAP kids if they are so segregated or an AAP kid thinking the other kids are so dumb they aren't worth hanging out with? That type of attitude stays with people throughout their lives.

Do you just not believe the posts above telling you that AAP and Gen Ed kids do share certain classes and more? Specials, PE, recess, field trips (maybe your school doesn't mix groups for field trips but others do), all-grade activities like the third grade and sixth grade plays at our former center school. My kid is going on a field trip tomorrow in her AAP center middle school and the groups for the day are mixed. Yes, the kids are "segregated" academically for the core academic subjects, since you insist on using that term. That separation into classes based on aptitude and the speed and depth of teaching is the entire point of an advanced academic program. But the schools do mix these in other ways.

You just seem to ignore that fact, and the previous posts giving you other examples. It sounds as if you would prefer no academic differentiation by class, but won't come right out and say it.

As for the sentence in bold above -- that is a huge generalization that manages to stereotype both AAP and Gen Ed kids in a single sentence, the former as superior snots and the latter as woefully considering themselves dumb. Way to insult both groups at once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don't understand the ",missed opportunities" of friendship. In that dopey scenario aren't 4th graders missing out on friendships with 3rd and 5th graders because they aren't in the same classes? Aren't kids who live in the same large neighborhood but are split between School A and School B missing out on
friendships?

A child doesn't need to be exposed to 150 kids to make friends. In some small schools there may only be two classes in the grade. Are those kids suffering because there aren't another 50-75 peers at the school?

It really is looking for a problem where there shouldn't be one.

I think the problem is that there's an academic segregation going on at the center schools. So that the GE kids never get to hang out with the academic superstars and the academic superstars never hang out with kids who may be on grade level or even struggling. This makes for a very segregated way of living and was the reason tracking went away in the first place. I think many people are supportive of kids getting lessons at their academic level. What they aren't supportive of is situation in elementary where kids are only with like minded kids whether that's race, intelligence, or parent income level. In high school it makes more sense to specialize because children are figuring out what they want to major in. Can you not understand how a kid who is in GE might think he's too dumb to even hang out with the AAP kids if they are so segregated or an AAP kid thinking the other kids are so dumb they aren't worth hanging out with? That type of attitude stays with people throughout their lives.

Do you just not believe the posts above telling you that AAP and Gen Ed kids do share certain classes and more? Specials, PE, recess, field trips (maybe your school doesn't mix groups for field trips but others do), all-grade activities like the third grade and sixth grade plays at our former center school. My kid is going on a field trip tomorrow in her AAP center middle school and the groups for the day are mixed. Yes, the kids are "segregated" academically for the core academic subjects, since you insist on using that term. That separation into classes based on aptitude and the speed and depth of teaching is the entire point of an advanced academic program. But the schools do mix these in other ways.

You just seem to ignore that fact, and the previous posts giving you other examples. It sounds as if you would prefer no academic differentiation by class, but won't come right out and say it.

As for the sentence in bold above -- that is a huge generalization that manages to stereotype both AAP and Gen Ed kids in a single sentence, the former as superior snots and the latter as woefully considering themselves dumb. Way to insult both groups at once.

There is a topic right also active entitled "Why I hate AAP". I haven't posted once on this and yet there are pages of comments. While it is a stereotype, there are certainly kids on both sides who feel this way hence the reason for the stereotype. Not all of course, but it is still an issue. As a parent of an AAP child at a center elementary school, how many new friends did your child make at the center who were not in K-2 with them or in AAP? How many of those new kids did you had over to your house during grades 3-5? How about their parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do schools not let mingle gen-ed kids with AAP.

This is the title of the thread.

Still where is negativity. It is just a question why are kids segregated.

Op followed up with "That is a torture for all of them."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school pays lip service to mixing, but the reality is all students have to sit with their class at lunch, so they can't sit with friends in other classes. On field trips, each class divides into groups from that same class, and they have to stay together, so no mingling there either (or on the bus, as kids have to sit with their classes). They are mixed in specials and I think at recess, but that's about it. It makes no sense to keep these kids separate. They're missing out on friendships they would otherwise have made if they weren't segregated into separate classrooms.

Every single elementary school in the county seats kids at lunch by class and loads the busses for field trips by class.

For the lunches it is a timing/scheduling thing based on bringing classes to the cafeteria together and collecting each class at the same time so the tables are scattered properly forcleaning and flipping for the next class of kids.

For field trips, keeping homeroom classes together is a safe and easy way not to lose kids along the way.

Those two issues would happen whether or not your school has AAP and has zero to do with keeping kids in different programs segregated.

You are creating an issue where there is none in these two specific examples.

And you are wrong about the lunch issue - there are schools in which the kids are allowed to sit with their friends (among the same grade). I haven't created any issue. The issue is that the kids complain they can't visit with their other friends during lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many obnoxious things re AAP Centers.

You said it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it true that for the most part your kid socializes mostly with the kids in his/her class that particular year?

Yes. But don't cloud this discussion with common sense

It isn't common sense or necessary. For instance, my kid at another school rotates classes and gets to meet all the children in his grade. Also, he attends SACC and meets kids of all grades in the school. He walks to school with neighbors of all grades. School doesn't have to be so segregated. There are many schools even where kids of different ages are in one classroom. Think how different the one room school house was to the concept of kids being in an AAP center in AAP or general ed and only being with kids of their same grade and academic ability. I'm not advocating that we should go back to the one room schoolhouse, but there are some positives to this mixed age/ability approach that could be incorporated better in an AAP center school.

I agree completely. The center schools are the complete antithesis of the community school model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it true that for the most part your kid socializes mostly with the kids in his/her class that particular year?

Yes. But don't cloud this discussion with common sense

It isn't common sense or necessary. For instance, my kid at another school rotates classes and gets to meet all the children in his grade. Also, he attends SACC and meets kids of all grades in the school. He walks to school with neighbors of all grades. School doesn't have to be so segregated. There are many schools even where kids of different ages are in one classroom. Think how different the one room school house was to the concept of kids being in an AAP center in AAP or general ed and only being with kids of their same grade and academic ability. I'm not advocating that we should go back to the one room schoolhouse, but there are some positives to this mixed age/ability approach that could be incorporated better in an AAP center school.

They do this in the center school too. In fact, my center kid mingled far more with other classes than my non center kids who only mixed classes for PE.

It sounds like your center might not be a good fit for your family and keeping your child at your base school is much more ideal based on your description of your base school.

Have you considered moving your child back to the base school so he can mingle in all of his classes and not just specials?

Center schools ARE base schools for many of the students. There's nowhere to go if that is your base school. And of course, Gen Ed kids aren't even given the option of going anywhere, unlike AAP kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it true that for the most part your kid socializes mostly with the kids in his/her class that particular year?

Yes. But don't cloud this discussion with common sense

It isn't common sense or necessary. For instance, my kid at another school rotates classes and gets to meet all the children in his grade. Also, he attends SACC and meets kids of all grades in the school. He walks to school with neighbors of all grades. School doesn't have to be so segregated. There are many schools even where kids of different ages are in one classroom. Think how different the one room school house was to the concept of kids being in an AAP center in AAP or general ed and only being with kids of their same grade and academic ability. I'm not advocating that we should go back to the one room schoolhouse, but there are some positives to this mixed age/ability approach that could be incorporated better in an AAP center school.

I agree completely. The center schools are the complete antithesis of the community school model.

You should look into a Montessori school for your child.

[Anonymous]

We're back to segregation.