Why do schools not let mingle gen-ed kids with AAP.

[Anonymous]

I also wanted to add that I think it's a good thing that AAP students have varied interests these days. This also helps with the mingling between general ed and AAP. You seem to be stuck into thinking your peers growing up weren't into academic pursuits, but in reality you might just not have known what they were really into because you never really hung out with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn't the responsibility of intellectually gifted children to "set a good example" or to make other children feel better about themselves by "mingling."

When I was a kid, they took all the gifted kids in our district and put them at the same school. It was heaven for us. Most of us had been bullied at our previous schools for being nerdy know-it-alls and only caring about boring/weird stuff. When they brought us all together, we could finally be ourselves and we finally had real friends. All of us were so much happier, and our non-GT peers did not miss us.

Of course, my district didn't have an inflated GT program with parents paying tutors and coaches to get their kids in. You were either truly gifted, or not. I can see where Ffx's AAP program comes off as elitist because the rich and powerful parents so often lobby to have their kids included when they don't really belong.

I disagree. I think it's EVERYONE's responsibility to "set a good example". I haven't heard many comments about AAP parents being turned off by general ed parents. Only that they're in trailers which is outside any parent's control. I would also argue that for elementary, you were given both a disservice by your old school not addressing the bullying and by your new school not giving you any contact of people who had interests other than academics. How do you even know if your non-GT peers missed you? Anyway, the typical AAP student is just as likely to also be the star soccer player as they are to be a nerd, so your example doesn't really make sense in many instances these days.

That's because the typical AAP student is not there because he/she has a learning difference (giftedness is a learning difference requiring special education -- AAP is better suited to bright, normal high achievers, not truly gifted children). I feel that the real gifted kids are probably just as badly served by Fairfax's AAP program as they are by general ed, at least socially. Can they do the work? Of course. But is the program addressing the hypersensitivities and "quirks" that often accompany being gifted -- the very things that cause them to be socially ostracized as "nerds?" No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn't the responsibility of intellectually gifted children to "set a good example" or to make other children feel better about themselves by "mingling."

When I was a kid, they took all the gifted kids in our district and put them at the same school. It was heaven for us. Most of us had been bullied at our previous schools for being nerdy know-it-alls and only caring about boring/weird stuff. When they brought us all together, we could finally be ourselves and we finally had real friends. All of us were so much happier, and our non-GT peers did not miss us.

Of course, my district didn't have an inflated GT program with parents paying tutors and coaches to get their kids in. You were either truly gifted, or not. I can see where Ffx's AAP program comes off as elitist because the rich and powerful parents so often lobby to have their kids included when they don't really belong.

I disagree. I think it's EVERYONE's responsibility to "set a good example". I haven't heard many comments about AAP parents being turned off by general ed parents. Only that they're in trailers which is outside any parent's control. I would also argue that for elementary, you were given both a disservice by your old school not addressing the bullying and by your new school not giving you any contact of people who had interests other than academics. How do you even know if your non-GT peers missed you? Anyway, the typical AAP student is just as likely to also be the star soccer player as they are to be a nerd, so your example doesn't really make sense in many instances these days.

That's because the typical AAP student is not there because he/she has a learning difference (giftedness is a learning difference requiring special education -- AAP is better suited to bright, normal high achievers, not truly gifted children). I feel that the real gifted kids are probably just as badly served by Fairfax's AAP program as they are by general ed, at least socially. Can they do the work? Of course. But is the program addressing the hypersensitivities and "quirks" that often accompany being gifted -- the very things that cause them to be socially ostracized as "nerds?" No.

+1000. I couldn't agree more. Today's AAP has become something parents think you compete for and no longer serves it's original goals. But FCPS is so in thrall of the high test scores at centers, that they would rather oven inflate it than help the kids it was originally intended for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also wanted to add that I think it's a good thing that AAP students have varied interests these days. This also helps with the mingling between general ed and AAP. You seem to be stuck into thinking your peers growing up weren't into academic pursuits, but in reality you might just not have known what they were really into because you never really hung out with them.

Trust me, I would have hung out with them if they had let me. I longed to be accepted, as had many of my gifted peers at the magnet school. It was only when we were no longer outliers that we were able to have normal social lives.

There is a huge difference between a neurotypical child who is bright and capable and a "gifted" child (I hate that term, actually). Children who have extremely high IQs are operating in a different universe than their peers. It's FRUSTRATING to be gifted. Your mind is so far ahead of your emotional capacity and your physical abilities that every day is spent running into brick walls. And you're different ... even weird. Look up Dabrowki's Over-excitabilities. True giftedness is no picnic. A bright but normal child who can also be a soccer star and fit in well with his or her peers is going to have an easier and often more successful life than a truly "gifted" child -- especially if the gifted child doesn't get the special help he or she needs to learn to adapt to a world that doesn't really fit them.

[Anonymous]

PP again -- Dabrowski's*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn't the responsibility of intellectually gifted children to "set a good example" or to make other children feel better about themselves by "mingling."

When I was a kid, they took all the gifted kids in our district and put them at the same school. It was heaven for us. Most of us had been bullied at our previous schools for being nerdy know-it-alls and only caring about boring/weird stuff. When they brought us all together, we could finally be ourselves and we finally had real friends. All of us were so much happier, and our non-GT peers did not miss us.

Of course, my district didn't have an inflated GT program with parents paying tutors and coaches to get their kids in. You were either truly gifted, or not. I can see where Ffx's AAP program comes off as elitist because the rich and powerful parents so often lobby to have their kids included when they don't really belong.

I disagree. I think it's EVERYONE's responsibility to "set a good example". I haven't heard many comments about AAP parents being turned off by general ed parents. Only that they're in trailers which is outside any parent's control. I would also argue that for elementary, you were given both a disservice by your old school not addressing the bullying and by your new school not giving you any contact of people who had interests other than academics. How do you even know if your non-GT peers missed you? Anyway, the typical AAP student is just as likely to also be the star soccer player as they are to be a nerd, so your example doesn't really make sense in many instances these days.

That's because the typical AAP student is not there because he/she has a learning difference (giftedness is a learning difference requiring special education -- AAP is better suited to bright, normal high achievers, not truly gifted children). I feel that the real gifted kids are probably just as badly served by Fairfax's AAP program as they are by general ed, at least socially. Can they do the work? Of course. But is the program addressing the hypersensitivities and "quirks" that often accompany being gifted -- the very things that cause them to be socially ostracized as "nerds?" No.

+1000. I couldn't agree more. Today's AAP has become something parents think you compete for and no longer serves it's original goals. But FCPS is so in thrall of the high test scores at centers, that they would rather oven inflate it than help the kids it was originally intended for.

And yet other posters say it continues to be the right place for quirky, gifted children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also wanted to add that I think it's a good thing that AAP students have varied interests these days. This also helps with the mingling between general ed and AAP. You seem to be stuck into thinking your peers growing up weren't into academic pursuits, but in reality you might just not have known what they were really into because you never really hung out with them.

Trust me, I would have hung out with them if they had let me. I longed to be accepted, as had many of my gifted peers at the magnet school. It was only when we were no longer outliers that we were able to have normal social lives.

There is a huge difference between a neurotypical child who is bright and capable and a "gifted" child (I hate that term, actually). Children who have extremely high IQs are operating in a different universe than their peers. It's FRUSTRATING to be gifted. Your mind is so far ahead of your emotional capacity and your physical abilities that every day is spent running into brick walls. And you're different ... even weird. Look up Dabrowki's Over-excitabilities. True giftedness is no picnic. A bright but normal child who can also be a soccer star and fit in well with his or her peers is going to have an easier and often more successful life than a truly "gifted" child -- especially if the gifted child doesn't get the special help he or she needs to learn to adapt to a world that doesn't really fit them.

My point was that that the gifted child would get more practice adapting to a world that doesn't really fit them if they got special help to do so while still being with peers of many different interests and abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also wanted to add that I think it's a good thing that AAP students have varied interests these days. This also helps with the mingling between general ed and AAP. You seem to be stuck into thinking your peers growing up weren't into academic pursuits, but in reality you might just not have known what they were really into because you never really hung out with them.

Trust me, I would have hung out with them if they had let me. I longed to be accepted, as had many of my gifted peers at the magnet school. It was only when we were no longer outliers that we were able to have normal social lives.

There is a huge difference between a neurotypical child who is bright and capable and a "gifted" child (I hate that term, actually). Children who have extremely high IQs are operating in a different universe than their peers. It's FRUSTRATING to be gifted. Your mind is so far ahead of your emotional capacity and your physical abilities that every day is spent running into brick walls. And you're different ... even weird. Look up Dabrowki's Over-excitabilities. True giftedness is no picnic. A bright but normal child who can also be a soccer star and fit in well with his or her peers is going to have an easier and often more successful life than a truly "gifted" child -- especially if the gifted child doesn't get the special help he or she needs to learn to adapt to a world that doesn't really fit them.

My point was that that the gifted child would get more practice adapting to a world that doesn't really fit them if they got special help to do so while still being with peers of many different interests and abilities.

That's what youth sports leagues, dance classes, church youth groups, and other social activities are for.

[Anonymous]

So glad my AAP middle schooler mixes with other kids. Her best friend is not AAP. The non-AAP friend is a great artist and has a lot more common sense. They make a great combination and each has something great to offer the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also wanted to add that I think it's a good thing that AAP students have varied interests these days. This also helps with the mingling between general ed and AAP. You seem to be stuck into thinking your peers growing up weren't into academic pursuits, but in reality you might just not have known what they were really into because you never really hung out with them.

Trust me, I would have hung out with them if they had let me. I longed to be accepted, as had many of my gifted peers at the magnet school. It was only when we were no longer outliers that we were able to have normal social lives.

There is a huge difference between a neurotypical child who is bright and capable and a "gifted" child (I hate that term, actually). Children who have extremely high IQs are operating in a different universe than their peers. It's FRUSTRATING to be gifted. Your mind is so far ahead of your emotional capacity and your physical abilities that every day is spent running into brick walls. And you're different ... even weird. Look up Dabrowki's Over-excitabilities. True giftedness is no picnic. A bright but normal child who can also be a soccer star and fit in well with his or her peers is going to have an easier and often more successful life than a truly "gifted" child -- especially if the gifted child doesn't get the special help he or she needs to learn to adapt to a world that doesn't really fit them.

My point was that that the gifted child would get more practice adapting to a world that doesn't really fit them if they got special help to do so while still being with peers of many different interests and abilities.

That's what youth sports leagues, dance classes, church youth groups, and other social activities are for.

They don't have the built in help for a gifted child that might be needed, the kids change easily in these activities, and the gifted child being described might not even be into these activities to even join in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I do understand that schools must be keeping kids separate from managing perspective. It is heart aching to see the kids feel that they have a restricted/almost no access in school to the friends that they made in k-2, or they have made in other activities that they do outside of school because they are AAP / Gen Ed or vice versa. i wish the schools could come up with more innovative ways to mingle the kids. I am not trying to say one is superior than other or so. I have respect for both the programs,just wish that outside of the boundaries of academic needs, kids should not have to stay away from each other.

I also think your complaint is school specific. Our AAP center has very few kids coming from the non-AAP part of the center school. There are something like 13 schools feeding into the AAP part of the school. The AAP kids are not pining to sit with "friends" in the non-AAP part of the school. They simply don't know them. And the reverse would be true as well. The non-AAP kids don't know anything about the AAP kids (except for a few kids in each grade who moved over).

I do find it strange that you put the onus on the people who are new to the school and blame them for not interacting with the non-AAP kids and parents. The AAP kids are welcomed by being assigned to the trailers. If anything, the AAP kids have an argument for being treated like 2nd class citizens who aren't yet welcomed into the school!

Think about what you've said. 13 schools feeding into one school. First off, that's probably the largest AAP center in the county then. Usually it's about 3-4 schools. Think just for a moment though what that must be like for a neighborhood school to have kids from 13 other schools come in. Perhaps they bought before any redistricting happened and now they have to live with the situation or move. Maybe the AAP population exploded. I have less tolerance for people who bought knowing this would be the case. Yes, if one child is coming into 5th grade, the class should be welcoming before the new child is, but to have 13 schools coming in all excited to start their first year at the school and now the general ed kids have to see their friends who got into the AAP center no longer hanging out with them because of this new distinction and also no mingling because the AAP parents demanded that every class be ability grouped. If you have 13 schools feeding into it, the reason some are in trailers is because the school is TOO BIG! Not because of any AAP/general ed separation. And typically the kids who need the most help such as the younger grades or special needs children would be allocated inside the building. Would you really want the down syndrome outside in a trailer while your kid was inside? I think both sides should be welcoming, but obviously at your school the general ed population is entirely overwhelmed by the AAP population.

Responding to the last pp -- if the AAP part of the center was not there, the school would be shut down or neighboring schools would be redistricted to that base school that is no longer a center school.

My kid (in AAP) has 75 new kids to get to know in his grade that are AAP kids (he knew about 5 kids coming into it). I think getting to know those 75 kids is plenty enough social effort for an 8 yr. old especially b/c they are not likely to see each other outside of school. He doesn't need to get to know the another 50 kids (non-AAP). We aren't looking down on them -- and there is plenty of diversity in DC's AAP grade level.

I'm sorry OP and other posters feel that their kids are left out in some way. I think it's really a matter of being happy where you are and blossoming and not thinking that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. There are friends to be made wherever you are.

I don't understand the need to manufacture social interactions -- people gravitate toward those with whom they have the most in common (common experiences, common problems). AAP kids at this center are already dealing with a lot of changes (busing, increased homework, new classmates, different building, different policies, different teachers for specials). I think it's a good policy decision to keep their social circle closer to 80 rather than 130 (including the ones DC already knew from the neighborhood school). At some point, mixing it up becomes a detriment to establishing true friendships. Mixing it up also could increase jealousy or comparisons -- AAP kids would be jealous if they found out that other kids in the same grade don't have to do _______ (project/homework/etc.).

For those who are concerned about the non-AAP kids who now don't get to see their friends -- how about calling them up and inviting them over for a playdate! That's what we do with DC's non-AAP friends at the neighborhood school... we let them get together outside of school! It's not that complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD moved from a LLIV program with 1 AAP class to a center with 3. At the LLIV center, they did mingle, except for core classes (that is, for band & strings, chorus, PE, specials, lunch, recess etc.). For example, kids were assigned to specials based on whether we're also in band, strings or chorus, and not by base class, and the entire grade ate & had recess at about the same time (staggered by class by a few minutes).

In DD's center, the 3 AAP teachers in her grade specialize in math, science & language arts, and the base teacher does social studies. The kids change classes with their base class. In order to make this work, they do have specials, band, strings & chorus, lunch etc. separately. I would prefer if it were not this way, but I see the need from a logistics point of view. And DD has made Gen Ed friends because of her school based scout troop, and neighborhood friends, and school extracurriculars.

In our experience (with a sample size of only 2 schools) this is not an issue of bad intentions or a desire to segregate the kids, but rather the logistics of running a large center with multiple AAP classes.

I think it's often about logistics than any bad intentions to segregate kids. I think center kids have it better since they have a bigger group of peers. The social dynamics of kids in local level IV can get weird especially by 5th grade and they'very been in the same class for 3 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD moved from a LLIV program with 1 AAP class to a center with 3. At the LLIV center, they did mingle, except for core classes (that is, for band & strings, chorus, PE, specials, lunch, recess etc.). For example, kids were assigned to specials based on whether we're also in band, strings or chorus, and not by base class, and the entire grade ate & had recess at about the same time (staggered by class by a few minutes).

In DD's center, the 3 AAP teachers in her grade specialize in math, science & language arts, and the base teacher does social studies. The kids change classes with their base class. In order to make this work, they do have specials, band, strings & chorus, lunch etc. separately. I would prefer if it were not this way, but I see the need from a logistics point of view. And DD has made Gen Ed friends because of her school based scout troop, and neighborhood friends, and school extracurriculars.

In our experience (with a sample size of only 2 schools) this is not an issue of bad intentions or a desire to segregate the kids, but rather the logistics of running a large center with multiple AAP classes.

I think it's often about logistics than any bad intentions to segregate kids. I think center kids have it better since they have a bigger group of peers. The social dynamics of kids in local level IV can get weird especially by 5th grade and they'very been in the same class for 3 years

Our school level IV has more kids than those in center.

[Anonymous]

I find this amusing. Whenever I strike up a conversation with a parent of an AAP child, as soon as they realize my child is in Gen Ed, they completely check out of the conversation. You can actually see the moment when it occurs - it's blatant. So I've lost interest in going out of my way to be friendly to parents who clearly aren't going to reciprocate. Predictably, one of you will say it's just "my imagination". That's because you haven't been on the receiving end of this kind of boorish behavior.
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To the person who posted this above - please don't assume all AAP parents are like this because they are not. You have now stereotyped them in your mind and it likely shows if you meet one. I am thrilled to meet/strike up a conversation with any parents in my child's school. I have NEVER disclosed that my child is in AAP to another parent. This just doesn't come up in conversation.

[Anonymous]

^ how is this possibly true? Just a conversation of who her teacher is - and it's known.