Why do schools not let mingle gen-ed kids with AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD moved from a LLIV program with 1 AAP class to a center with 3. At the LLIV center, they did mingle, except for core classes (that is, for band & strings, chorus, PE, specials, lunch, recess etc.). For example, kids were assigned to specials based on whether we're also in band, strings or chorus, and not by base class, and the entire grade ate & had recess at about the same time (staggered by class by a few minutes).

In DD's center, the 3 AAP teachers in her grade specialize in math, science & language arts, and the base teacher does social studies. The kids change classes with their base class. In order to make this work, they do have specials, band, strings & chorus, lunch etc. separately. I would prefer if it were not this way, but I see the need from a logistics point of view. And DD has made Gen Ed friends because of her school based scout troop, and neighborhood friends, and school extracurriculars.

In our experience (with a sample size of only 2 schools) this is not an issue of bad intentions or a desire to segregate the kids, but rather the logistics of running a large center with multiple AAP classes.

I think it's often about logistics than any bad intentions to segregate kids. I think center kids have it better since they have a bigger group of peers. The social dynamics of kids in local level IV can get weird especially by 5th grade and they'very been in the same class for 3 years

Well, at our center school the dynamics are completely opposite. The 5th grade has only two Gen Ed classes, but four AAP classes. So the Gen Ed kids are the ones who are in class with the same group of kids year after year. It's insane that these kids, for whom the center school is their base school, have become the minority to the majority AAP kids. What an unrealistic vision of the world they're getting. AAP should be the exception, not the rule. Which is why center schools need to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I find this amusing. Whenever I strike up a conversation with a parent of an AAP child, as soon as they realize my child is in Gen Ed, they completely check out of the conversation. You can actually see the moment when it occurs - it's blatant. So I've lost interest in going out of my way to be friendly to parents who clearly aren't going to reciprocate. Predictably, one of you will say it's just "my imagination". That's because you haven't been on the receiving end of this kind of boorish behavior.
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To the person who posted this above - please don't assume all AAP parents are like this because they are not. You have now stereotyped them in your mind and it likely shows if you meet one. I am thrilled to meet/strike up a conversation with any parents in my child's school. I have NEVER disclosed that my child is in AAP to another parent. This just doesn't come up in conversation.

I wouldn't assume every AAP parent behaves in this manner - but it is true that too many of them do. Even if all AAP parents aren't like this, enough of them are that it's become something of a truism in our center school. I'm definitely not the only Gen Ed parent who has noticed this behavior. And while AAP may not come up directly in conversation, it's out there immediately as soon as you share the name of your child's teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid (in AAP) has 75 new kids to get to know in his grade that are AAP kids (he knew about 5 kids coming into it). I think getting to know those 75 kids is plenty enough social effort for an 8 yr. old especially b/c they are not likely to see each other outside of school. He doesn't need to get to know the another 50 kids (non-AAP). We aren't looking down on them -- and there is plenty of diversity in DC's AAP grade level.


Perfect reason to have only magnet schools or non at all. This child and parent has no intention of ever getting to know the non-AAP kids or parents.

+100

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I also don't understand the ",missed opportunities" of friendship. In that dopey scenario aren't 4th graders missing out on friendships with 3rd and 5th graders because they aren't in the same classes? Aren't kids who live in the same large neighborhood but are split between School A and School B missing out on
friendships?

A child doesn't need to be exposed to 150 kids to make friends. In some small schools there may only be two classes in the grade. Are those kids suffering because there aren't another 50-75 peers at the school?

It really is looking for a problem where there shouldn't be one.

I think the problem is that there's an academic segregation going on at the center schools. So that the GE kids never get to hang out with the academic superstars and the academic superstars never hang out with kids who may be on grade level or even struggling. This makes for a very segregated way of living and was the reason tracking went away in the first place. I think many people are supportive of kids getting lessons at their academic level. What they aren't supportive of is situation in elementary where kids are only with like minded kids whether that's race, intelligence, or parent income level. In high school it makes more sense to specialize because children are figuring out what they want to major in. Can you not understand how a kid who is in GE might think he's too dumb to even hang out with the AAP kids if they are so segregated or an AAP kid thinking the other kids are so dumb they aren't worth hanging out with? That type of attitude stays with people throughout their lives.

Do you just not believe the posts above telling you that AAP and Gen Ed kids do share certain classes and more? Specials, PE, recess, field trips (maybe your school doesn't mix groups for field trips but others do), all-grade activities like the third grade and sixth grade plays at our former center school. My kid is going on a field trip tomorrow in her AAP center middle school and the groups for the day are mixed. Yes, the kids are "segregated" academically for the core academic subjects, since you insist on using that term. That separation into classes based on aptitude and the speed and depth of teaching is the entire point of an advanced academic program. But the schools do mix these in other ways.

You just seem to ignore that fact, and the previous posts giving you other examples. It sounds as if you would prefer no academic differentiation by class, but won't come right out and say it.

As for the sentence in bold above -- that is a huge generalization that manages to stereotype both AAP and Gen Ed kids in a single sentence, the former as superior snots and the latter as woefully considering themselves dumb. Way to insult both groups at once.

There is a topic right also active entitled "Why I hate AAP". I haven't posted once on this and yet there are pages of comments. While it is a stereotype, there are certainly kids on both sides who feel this way hence the reason for the stereotype. Not all of course, but it is still an issue. As a parent of an AAP child at a center elementary school, how many new friends did your child make at the center who were not in K-2 with them or in AAP? How many of those new kids did you had over to your house during grades 3-5? How about their parents?

Ok. Back at you.

As the established student at the school, how many new kids in the AAP program did your chikd reach out to? How many of them did she welcome? Try to get to know? How many names of these new kids did she know?

What about you? How many of the new AAP parents did you welcome to your school? Invite to the PTA meeting? Try to make feel like they were welcome in the commuity?

As someone who moved many times as my life and who now is established in an actual neighborhood and home, I always feel that it is proper manners and common courtesy for tue established folks to be the ones to reach out to and welcome newcomers. Yes, newcomers should be friendly but those already comfortable and established should be the ones extending hospitality.

If your school breeds so much hostility than perhaps you, the established one, is part of the problem.

Change your attitude and show som basic manners and perhaps you will find out that your stereotypes are, with very few exceptions, just that...unfounded stereotypes.

You might...gasp...discover that most of these AAP encroachers are actually quite nice and would love to be welcomed into the school community instead of being shunned, gossiped about and resented.

I find this amusing. Whenever I strike up a conversation with a parent of an AAP child, as soon as they realize my child is in Gen Ed, they completely check out of the conversation. You can actually see the moment when it occurs - it's blatant. So I've lost interest in going out of my way to be friendly to parents who clearly aren't going to reciprocate. Predictably, one of you will say it's just "my imagination". That's because you haven't been on the receiving end of this kind of boorish behavior.

Every single AAP parent? Out of how many? They're not all created equally, you know. Let me guess, the GE parents are "clearly going to reciprocate"? You as biased as the ones you're accusing.

Predictable, just as I said. As my child's base school is unfortunately a center, I've encountered many "AAP parents" over the years with this attitude. Most of them are completely disinterested once they learn they're talking to a parent of a Gen Ed child. And yes - the parents of other Gen Ed kids are always happy to chat and get to know me and/or my child. I can count on one hand the parents of AAP kids who have reciprocated in a friendly way.

So wait a minute. You're complaining because you're not surrounded by people who treat you poorly? You're upset your child isn't in AAP with the other jerky families?

What? That's not what I said at all. If my child were in AAP, then these conversation stoppers wouldn't be occurring. AAP parents are more than happy to chat with other AAP parents. I'm not upset my child isn't in AAP; I'm upset because my child has to attend a center school in which there are more AAP kids (and parents) than Gen Ed - and from personal experience, the AAP parents aren't exactly warm and fuzzy to the Gen Ed parents at school-wide events that we all attend. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid (in AAP) has 75 new kids to get to know in his grade that are AAP kids (he knew about 5 kids coming into it). I think getting to know those 75 kids is plenty enough social effort for an 8 yr. old especially b/c they are not likely to see each other outside of school. He doesn't need to get to know the another 50 kids (non-AAP). We aren't looking down on them -- and there is plenty of diversity in DC's AAP grade level.


Perfect reason to have only magnet schools or non at all. This child and parent has no intention of ever getting to know the non-AAP kids or parents.

Sorry you didn't make my list of priorities. It's not personal -- in fact, it's completely impersonal. I'm living my life. You live yours. (Actually, I have made friends with another mom who is a base school parent, but that's b/c she speaks my language and happens to wait in the same area where I wait -- i.e. common experiences. I didn't befriend her b/c her kid is or isn't AAP. In fact, we almost never talk about school b/c her kids are in different grades.)

But yet it is personal. You are profiling people racially and academically.

No... I just don't care about people who aren't in my sphere of attention. I'm ignoring them (and you) with equal opportunity.

This is hysterical! Case in point.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the whole thread because it's a bit long, so forgive me if I'm off point. I have a child in AAP, and the AAP kids at DC's center do think they are superior to the Gen Ed kids. They see them as "other". I'm not saying all the AAP kids feel that way, but it's the pervasive culture. The kids are trying to plan a fifth grade graduation event that only includes AAP kids. One would say that it makes sense because these are the kids they know, but I don't think that's the underlying reason for this. I think it's because they think they are better than the Gen Ed kids. The AAP kids have Gen Ed kids in strings , chorus, and PE. They also see them in SACC, and some of the AAP kids whose base school is also the center know kids from K-3, so they do know these kids. A few of the kids wanted to include Gen Ed kids but were told no. I know there will be a lot of AAP parents crying foul on this, but DC has been at the center for three years, and its been a pervasive attitude all three years. Maybe the Gen Ed kids are doing the same and I just don't know, but my issue is with the pervasive feeling of superiority on the part of the AAP kids. When I was growing up, I was in all advanced classes and I don't think my best friend was in any. I think we've become a much more judgmental society, and we think our kids need special treatment all the time. I think they are picking up on this. I'm not saying all AAP kids or all AAP parents are like this, but the number is large enough for concern, IMO.

[Anonymous]

I am so glad my children do not attend your Level IV Center school, 06:03, as our Center school is nothing like what you described. But our Center school is not one of those highly sought out schools, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I do understand that schools must be keeping kids separate from managing perspective. It is heart aching to see the kids feel that they have a restricted/almost no access in school to the friends that they made in k-2, or they have made in other activities that they do outside of school because they are AAP / Gen Ed or vice versa. i wish the schools could come up with more innovative ways to mingle the kids. I am not trying to say one is superior than other or so. I have respect for both the programs,just wish that outside of the boundaries of academic needs, kids should not have to stay away from each other.

I also think your complaint is school specific. Our AAP center has very few kids coming from the non-AAP part of the center school. There are something like 13 schools feeding into the AAP part of the school. The AAP kids are not pining to sit with "friends" in the non-AAP part of the school. They simply don't know them. And the reverse would be true as well. The non-AAP kids don't know anything about the AAP kids (except for a few kids in each grade who moved over).

I do find it strange that you put the onus on the people who are new to the school and blame them for not interacting with the non-AAP kids and parents. The AAP kids are welcomed by being assigned to the trailers. If anything, the AAP kids have an argument for being treated like 2nd class citizens who aren't yet welcomed into the school!

I'm sorry, but I just can't get too worked up about this. The AAP kids are the ones who are given a choice between two schools - their base and the center. Gen Ed kids are given no choice whatsoever about which school they'd like to attend. If anyone is being treated like "second class citizens," it's the Gen Ed students. Now, if everyone was given a choice regarding school preference, that would be entirely different. But with the system as it is, I can't feel too badly for kids "being assigned to trailers".

My DD did not get the choice between two schools, even though she is in AAP, as our base school is a center. Think before you type.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread because it's a bit long, so forgive me if I'm off point. I have a child in AAP, and the AAP kids at DC's center do think they are superior to the Gen Ed kids. They see them as "other". I'm not saying all the AAP kids feel that way, but it's the pervasive culture. The kids are trying to plan a fifth grade graduation event that only includes AAP kids. One would say that it makes sense because these are the kids they know, but I don't think that's the underlying reason for this. I think it's because they think they are better than the Gen Ed kids. The AAP kids have Gen Ed kids in strings , chorus, and PE. They also see them in SACC, and some of the AAP kids whose base school is also the center know kids from K-3, so they do know these kids. A few of the kids wanted to include Gen Ed kids but were told no. I know there will be a lot of AAP parents crying foul on this, but DC has been at the center for three years, and its been a pervasive attitude all three years. Maybe the Gen Ed kids are doing the same and I just don't know, but my issue is with the pervasive feeling of superiority on the part of the AAP kids. When I was growing up, I was in all advanced classes and I don't think my best friend was in any. I think we've become a much more judgmental society, and we think our kids need special treatment all the time. I think they are picking up on this. I'm not saying all AAP kids or all AAP parents are like this, but the number is large enough for concern, IMO.

This is precisely what goes on at our center too. Center schools, in general, foster this kind of "us and them" behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I do understand that schools must be keeping kids separate from managing perspective. It is heart aching to see the kids feel that they have a restricted/almost no access in school to the friends that they made in k-2, or they have made in other activities that they do outside of school because they are AAP / Gen Ed or vice versa. i wish the schools could come up with more innovative ways to mingle the kids. I am not trying to say one is superior than other or so. I have respect for both the programs,just wish that outside of the boundaries of academic needs, kids should not have to stay away from each other.

I also think your complaint is school specific. Our AAP center has very few kids coming from the non-AAP part of the center school. There are something like 13 schools feeding into the AAP part of the school. The AAP kids are not pining to sit with "friends" in the non-AAP part of the school. They simply don't know them. And the reverse would be true as well. The non-AAP kids don't know anything about the AAP kids (except for a few kids in each grade who moved over).

I do find it strange that you put the onus on the people who are new to the school and blame them for not interacting with the non-AAP kids and parents. The AAP kids are welcomed by being assigned to the trailers. If anything, the AAP kids have an argument for being treated like 2nd class citizens who aren't yet welcomed into the school!

I'm sorry, but I just can't get too worked up about this. The AAP kids are the ones who are given a choice between two schools - their base and the center. Gen Ed kids are given no choice whatsoever about which school they'd like to attend. If anyone is being treated like "second class citizens," it's the Gen Ed students. Now, if everyone was given a choice regarding school preference, that would be entirely different. But with the system as it is, I can't feel too badly for kids "being assigned to trailers".

My DD did not get the choice between two schools, even though she is in AAP, as our base school is a center. Think before you type.

Pretty sure you know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm referring to the vast influx of kids from other schools to the center, usually dominating the existing Gen Ed population there. The point is that AAP kids are given a choice as to which school - or in your case, which program - they'd like to attend. Are Gen Ed kids given any such choice? Nope. So I don't have any problem with the AAP masses who are crowding center schools being assigned to trailers. Seems like a small concession to me.

[Anonymous]

18:54 -- I'm not the PP you were responding to. I agree with the sentiment that the gen ed kids shouldn't be pushed out of their school to accomodate the AAP kids --- BUT, if the AAP kids are "put out" by being placed in the trailers, you can't expect them to feel like they are 100% part of the school.

You seem to be arguing both sides of the stick -- AAP kids are stand-off-ish and stick to themselves, BUT, the gen. ed. kids have a greater right to be inside the actual school building b/c it is their school first. (i.e. the AAP kids think they are superior; but don't expect the gen. ed. kids to treat the AAP kids as equals who have a right to be in the school building... gee, why don't the AAP kids want to mingle with the gen. ed. kids?

Sounds to me like you have a resentful attitude toward the AAP kids that may be creating the very barrier that you are complaining about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18:54 -- I'm not the PP you were responding to. I agree with the sentiment that the gen ed kids shouldn't be pushed out of their school to accomodate the AAP kids --- BUT, if the AAP kids are "put out" by being placed in the trailers, you can't expect them to feel like they are 100% part of the school.

You seem to be arguing both sides of the stick -- AAP kids are stand-off-ish and stick to themselves, BUT, the gen. ed. kids have a greater right to be inside the actual school building b/c it is their school first. (i.e. the AAP kids think they are superior; but don't expect the gen. ed. kids to treat the AAP kids as equals who have a right to be in the school building... gee, why don't the AAP kids want to mingle with the gen. ed. kids?

Sounds to me like you have a resentful attitude toward the AAP kids that may be creating the very barrier that you are complaining about.

In our center school, there are no trailers so all kids (AAP and Gen Ed) are inside the building. Many of the AAP kids still act snotty and superior to their Gen Ed counterparts. I think they would be regardless of where their classrooms are located. The very labeling of each group is what contributes to the divisiveness we see at our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18:54 -- I'm not the PP you were responding to. I agree with the sentiment that the gen ed kids shouldn't be pushed out of their school to accomodate the AAP kids --- BUT, if the AAP kids are "put out" by being placed in the trailers, you can't expect them to feel like they are 100% part of the school.

You seem to be arguing both sides of the stick -- AAP kids are stand-off-ish and stick to themselves, BUT, the gen. ed. kids have a greater right to be inside the actual school building b/c it is their school first. (i.e. the AAP kids think they are superior; but don't expect the gen. ed. kids to treat the AAP kids as equals who have a right to be in the school building... gee, why don't the AAP kids want to mingle with the gen. ed. kids?

Sounds to me like you have a resentful attitude toward the AAP kids that may be creating the very barrier that you are complaining about.

Most schools put kids out in trailers by grade, not by program. K-3 are kept in as much as possible and only one of those grades are AAP. So if a school has trailers, you're more likely to get one if you are in AAP because these are the older grades. In addition, the kids who need the most special ed support are more likely to be in the school building because they need greater access to the reading specialist, occupational therapist, etc. The AAP kids don't tend to need as much intervention. What is your problem thinking these trailers are some kind of sign that you're not welcome? If you really don't like the trailers, just don't switch schools!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18:54 -- I'm not the PP you were responding to. I agree with the sentiment that the gen ed kids shouldn't be pushed out of their school to accomodate the AAP kids --- BUT, if the AAP kids are "put out" by being placed in the trailers, you can't expect them to feel like they are 100% part of the school.

You seem to be arguing both sides of the stick -- AAP kids are stand-off-ish and stick to themselves, BUT, the gen. ed. kids have a greater right to be inside the actual school building b/c it is their school first. (i.e. the AAP kids think they are superior; but don't expect the gen. ed. kids to treat the AAP kids as equals who have a right to be in the school building... gee, why don't the AAP kids want to mingle with the gen. ed. kids?

Sounds to me like you have a resentful attitude toward the AAP kids that may be creating the very barrier that you are complaining about.

In our center school, there are no trailers so all kids (AAP and Gen Ed) are inside the building. Many of the AAP kids still act snotty and superior to their Gen Ed counterparts. I think they would be regardless of where their classrooms are located. The very labeling of each group is what contributes to the divisiveness we see at our school.

Many, huh? Which school? I'd like to know where many AAP kids act snotty and superior. And were the GE kids at all mean back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:23:45, I think there are several posters in that quote.

These were my questions:

As a parent of an AAP child at a center elementary school, how many new friends did your child make at the center who were not in K-2 with them or in AAP? How many of those new kids did you had over to your house during grades 3-5? How about their parents?

My AAP kid came in from out of state in an upper grade. Most of the truly new friends he made were the four other kids that moved in from out of state, who happened to end up in his AAP class. They were all the new kids, and new kids tend to hang together. They also had similar life experiences, which combined with proximity makes for an easy friendship.

The only AAP vs non AAP kid drama or exclusion he experienced was actually from a kid who we assume was not in AAP and did not go to a center school who proudly announced how much he hated AAP kids, even though he didn't really know any of them, and that he didn't want to get to know any of them and no one he knew liked them either (my kid was new so the other kid did not know he was in AAP) My kid asked why and the boy responded that he had no reason, he just hated them even though he didn't know any of them.

It happens. Some kids are jerks and jerkiness knows no distinction between AAP and non AAP.