Red flag(?): no emotion regarding painful past

[Anonymous]

I am a new poster who really wanted to roll my eyes at first. But now after reading all these replies, I realize I'm just defensive.

I divorced a man who is the son of an alcohol. He grew up watching his parents fight and his mother berate his father.

My husband seemed extremely wonderful, highly functioning and successful in his twenties. By his thirties, he was starting to crack, and by his forties he hit rock bottom - alcohol and other addictive behaviors. He was a mess.

People who knew him way-back-when say they can't believe it. But I think the seeds were planted in him as a child. I don't know how much is nature and how much is nurture - you have to worry about addiction if you are the child of an alcoholic, of course. And I worry about my own children, even though they seem fine now.

So this is my story, for what it's worth. Would I date the child of an alcoholic now?

NO. Also, no one with mentally ill parents. I've been through enough.

Good luck, OP. Do your research!

[Anonymous]

First, it all depends on what you are looking for. Some people want to put the past in the past and move on and see no need to try to resolve things. They can live their entire life that way, marry someone with similar beliefs, and be hunky dory. This describes my parents, to a T. But it sounds like that is not what you want.

Some people don't want to, or cannot, just close the door on the past and move on. They either develop major, visible problems like substance abuse, etc. or seek therapy and work at understanding how their past has affected them and how to make peace with it. In a perfect world, they come to terms with their past. They don't necessarily go around telling the world about their past, but they do confide in those close to them and are able to do so without becoming a basket case. They may or may not become visibly emotional.

If you want to be with someone who has dealt with and resolved the issues from a painful past - this is not that guy, from what you have described. He sounds to me like someone who has repressed, rather than resolved, his past and feelings. People who repress tend to describe themselves as living in the present, having moved on, not wanting to dredge up the past, say that the awful things that happened didn't affect them or if they did, they were affected positively: it made them stronger, more responsible, more on control of their emotions. This describes my entire family.

You sound like you want a guy who has dealt with his demons. So the real question is not whether this is a red flag, but whether, when these topics come up, he is unemotional because he has successfully repressed all the pain and doesn't even know it's there anymore, or whether he is unemotional because he is a reserved guy but he ihas dealt with the past. It can be hard to tell the difference with someone you don't know well, but it sounds to me like you know the answer with him.

I totally agree with the PP who said not to have kids with him. It's not because he isn't emotionally expressive, but because he will pass these traits - which OP doesn't seem to like - onto his kids. And he is probably hiding all sorts of things from you that could make your life a living hell if you intertwine your life with his. I married and had a child with a guy like this and if I understood childhood trauma and it's lasting effects then like I do now, I never would have done so. But now I'm stuck with him, even if we divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would this be a red flag to you:

Incredibly bad childhood (primary caregiver alcoholic, divorced 6 times):

Guy I'm dating says:

No connection to a single former step Fathers, no sadness
Found out about one divorce when the real estate agent showed up, no emotion
Moved for a new parental marriage after getting into a prestigious school (TJ) and couldn't attend, no emotionEtc...

Accepts everything as "yeah, and...?" Won't even admit or acknowledge that those are painful memories or experiences. Denies any emotion. Claims totally over it and has moved on. Red flag?

I'm a counselor (not going to be more specific than that) and yes, BIG YES, it raises big red flags. Honestly I feel for the guy.

Many have responded and said they had bad things happen, they're not overly emotional about it, they've moved on, etc. That is great, that is what you're supposed to do. But to "deny any emotion", to say they had no emotions when they got into a good school and then couldn't attend (and I assume they wanted to)... I certainly would not and can not diagnose over the internet based on this little detail, but it's pretty clear on the surface that it sounds like a tremendous amount of suppressed emotion has got to be there. People who are kind of blank or numb or say they feel nothing about it... I have yet to meet the person who is like that and doesn't have a tremendous amount of processing still to do.

What tdoes that mean for dating? [Because I assume that's the context in which you're asking this]... You haven't said what your relationship to this guy is, how long youv'e known him, or what you want. But if it's a new relationship and you're looking for a serious relationship, I wouldn't necessarily say "run for the hills", but I would ABSOLUTELY avoid falling headlong into love and commitment until you know him longer, and particularly (for me) see how he handles something he considers really difficult. Who knows what it might be... also talk to him about his exes, see how much he'll tell you. I am NOT saying that a guy who won't talk about his exes is no good (so relax, everyone who was about to jump on me!) but just answering for me, if he's got no emotion about painful traumatic experiences from his past, I would want to know if the women he dated previously were able to still be friendly with him after breakups. Some people like zero connections to exes in a new guy/gal, but if I already have concerns about other red flags, how the new guy talks about exes (or doesn't talk about them) and whether he's still in touch with any (I like it when they are in touch, as long as it doesn't sounds like a soap opera) well then that guy is not for me if he won't talk about them, or does talk and trashes them, or has zero contat with any exes. That's just me but that plus his lack of emtion would be huge giant red flags and then I would run away.

So now that I"ve made a ton of assumptions, OP how long have you known him and what are you looking for from him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, it all depends on what you are looking for. Some people want to put the past in the past and move on and see no need to try to resolve things. They can live their entire life that way, marry someone with similar beliefs, and be hunky dory. This describes my parents, to a T. But it sounds like that is not what you want.

Some people don't want to, or cannot, just close the door on the past and move on. They either develop major, visible problems like substance abuse, etc. or seek therapy and work at understanding how their past has affected them and how to make peace with it. In a perfect world, they come to terms with their past. They don't necessarily go around telling the world about their past, but they do confide in those close to them and are able to do so without becoming a basket case. They may or may not become visibly emotional.

If you want to be with someone who has dealt with and resolved the issues from a painful past - this is not that guy, from what you have described. He sounds to me like someone who has repressed, rather than resolved, his past and feelings. People who repress tend to describe themselves as living in the present, having moved on, not wanting to dredge up the past, say that the awful things that happened didn't affect them or if they did, they were affected positively: it made them stronger, more responsible, more on control of their emotions. This describes my entire family.

You sound like you want a guy who has dealt with his demons. So the real question is not whether this is a red flag, but whether, when these topics come up, he is unemotional because he has successfully repressed all the pain and doesn't even know it's there anymore, or whether he is unemotional because he is a reserved guy but he ihas dealt with the past. It can be hard to tell the difference with someone you don't know well, but it sounds to me like you know the answer with him.

I totally agree with the PP who said not to have kids with him. It's not because he isn't emotionally expressive, but because he will pass these traits - which OP doesn't seem to like - onto his kids. And he is probably hiding all sorts of things from you that could make your life a living hell if you intertwine your life with his. I married and had a child with a guy like this and if I understood childhood trauma and it's lasting effects then like I do now, I never would have done so. But now I'm stuck with him, even if we divorce.

I like this post and there is a lot I agree about in it, but I really don't believe that people can "successfully repress all the pain and don't knwo it's there anymore". It may be that they don't live with a daily awareness, but what I always find (in both work and personal life) is that the pain is very much there, very much affecting people's choices and ways of dealing with things, and the person may not connect other parts of their life to the pain, but there are almost always inexplicable things that don't serve them in the present but are hard for them to change because they are connected (often in really obvoius ways) tot heir past bad experiences.

Doesn't really change your bottom line or mine (I'm the PP before you) re: OP's question, but just wanted to comment on that. I do appreciate your post though.

[Anonymous]

This thread would have gone in a very different direction if a man asked if he should ditch his long term girlfriend because she doesn't cry enough about her childhood. He would have been crucified and stoned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would this be a red flag to you:

Incredibly bad childhood (primary caregiver alcoholic, divorced 6 times):

Guy I'm dating says:

No connection to a single former step Fathers, no sadness
Found out about one divorce when the real estate agent showed up, no emotion
Moved for a new parental marriage after getting into a prestigious school (TJ) and couldn't attend, no emotionEtc...

Accepts everything as "yeah, and...?" Won't even admit or acknowledge that those are painful memories or experiences. Denies any emotion. Claims totally over it and has moved on. Red flag?

I'm a counselor (not going to be more specific than that) and yes, BIG YES, it raises big red flags. Honestly I feel for the guy.

Many have responded and said they had bad things happen, they're not overly emotional about it, they've moved on, etc. That is great, that is what you're supposed to do. But to "deny any emotion", to say they had no emotions when they got into a good school and then couldn't attend (and I assume they wanted to)... I certainly would not and can not diagnose over the internet based on this little detail, but it's pretty clear on the surface that it sounds like a tremendous amount of suppressed emotion has got to be there. People who are kind of blank or numb or say they feel nothing about it... I have yet to meet the person who is like that and doesn't have a tremendous amount of processing still to do.

What tdoes that mean for dating? [Because I assume that's the context in which you're asking this]... You haven't said what your relationship to this guy is, how long youv'e known him, or what you want. But if it's a new relationship and you're looking for a serious relationship, I wouldn't necessarily say "run for the hills", but I would ABSOLUTELY avoid falling headlong into love and commitment until you know him longer, and particularly (for me) see how he handles something he considers really difficult. Who knows what it might be... also talk to him about his exes, see how much he'll tell you. I am NOT saying that a guy who won't talk about his exes is no good (so relax, everyone who was about to jump on me!) but just answering for me, if he's got no emotion about painful traumatic experiences from his past, I would want to know if the women he dated previously were able to still be friendly with him after breakups. Some people like zero connections to exes in a new guy/gal, but if I already have concerns about other red flags, how the new guy talks about exes (or doesn't talk about them) and whether he's still in touch with any (I like it when they are in touch, as long as it doesn't sounds like a soap opera) well then that guy is not for me if he won't talk about them, or does talk and trashes them, or has zero contat with any exes. That's just me but that plus his lack of emtion would be huge giant red flags and then I would run away.

So now that I"ve made a ton of assumptions, OP how long have you known him and what are you looking for from him?

OP here, I posted vague details because I'm trying to figure out what I missed years ago.

I have a child with this person. We were together for years. In that time he disappeared twice (during difficult times), he hurt me, everything was always my fault. Not that the "red flags" matter. I just keep thinking about how could I have seen HIM sooner.

[Anonymous]

So are you saying you are no longer with him? I'm confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread would have gone in a very different direction if a man asked if he should ditch his long term girlfriend because she doesn't cry enough about her childhood. He would have been crucified and stoned.

You're a little late. Don't these "man would have been stoned if" posts usually appear around page 2?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a new poster who really wanted to roll my eyes at first. But now after reading all these replies, I realize I'm just defensive.

I divorced a man who is the son of an alcohol. He grew up watching his parents fight and his mother berate his father.

My husband seemed extremely wonderful, highly functioning and successful in his twenties. By his thirties, he was starting to crack, and by his forties he hit rock bottom - alcohol and other addictive behaviors. He was a mess.

People who knew him way-back-when say they can't believe it. But I think the seeds were planted in him as a child. I don't know how much is nature and how much is nurture - you have to worry about addiction if you are the child of an alcoholic, of course. And I worry about my own children, even though they seem fine now.

So this is my story, for what it's worth. Would I date the child of an alcoholic now?

NO. Also, no one with mentally ill parents. I've been through enough.

Good luck, OP. Do your research!

+1 I have seen this pattern also. Something about the 40s... But perhaps this man and the OP are not a good match despite this.

[Anonymous]

OP here, I posted vague details because I'm trying to figure out what I missed years ago.

I have a child with this person. We were together for years. In that time he disappeared twice (during difficult times), he hurt me, everything was always my fault. Not that the "red flags" matter. I just keep thinking about how could I have seen HIM sooner.

OP, I am sorry. he put up a good front for awhile and then it all caught up to him (him, not everyone out there!) He sounds like the abusive son of abusive parents. Sadly abused sometimes goes on to be abusive. Sounds like you may have to move on from him. (I know that is hard)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So are you saying you are no longer with him? I'm confused.

OP here, yes, I left after he became physically abusive.

[Anonymous]

OP is an irritant - 20yrs from now will be still single and still nitpicking about dumb shit

[Anonymous]

Just because someone doesn't process a painful childhood the way you think they should doesn't mean they haven't dealt with it. Geez, people. Not all of us define our adult lives by a crappy childhood we old not control. Personally, as a survivor of a crappy childhood I believe it is a sign of good mental health to move on and stop living in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So are you saying you are no longer with him? I'm confused.

OP here, yes, I left after he became physically abusive.

You're better off figuring this out in counseling, not on a public forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because someone doesn't process a painful childhood the way you think they should doesn't mean they haven't dealt with it. Geez, people. Not all of us define our adult lives by a crappy childhood we old not control. Personally, as a survivor of a crappy childhood I believe it is a sign of good mental health to move on and stop living in the past.

Please don't simplify things. You should feel some way about this, I am not sure exactly what way, but dammit you should feel some way about it. You cannot say you are in good mental health as a result of moving on. You must realize that you will be a bad parent and you will beat your wife and disappear because of your "crappy" childhood. I would even go so far as to suggest that you voluntarily submit to sterilization so as to assure that your bad "traits" are not passed down to your children. How dare you try and hide your pain. We know the truth about you even if you don't.