Redshirt mom vs. Tiger mom -- seeking a competitive advantage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at an open house for a "top 3" private and the AD specifically stated that those born in June, July or August will probably not be accepted into their pre k prgm - thus forcing a red shirt...

Which one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I lot of schools around the DC area highly encourage, if not require, you to redshirt summer birthday boys - so often it's not the mom's decision or personality, it's the school.

Are these the elite, prestigious or run of the mill private schools?

Both, from my experience. Countless schools told us that DC would need to wait until the following year or repeat their current grade if admitted because of a late birthday. They believe that the age difference across a grade puts the younger children at a disadvantage socially. We inquired with many schools and were given the same answer. We didn't want to waste our time applying to several schools that would not consider promoting DC to the next grade, which for DC would be K. We eventually decided to apply to the schools that said they would consider not red shirting, but didn't make any promises. We truly didn't want to red shirt DC but it was the schools choice and seems to be the accepted norm.

[Anonymous]

See, you just don't get it. The kids who aren't getting off their couches after college are not stuck in that rut because their parents didn't "mentor them" or put them in academic after school programs. This kind of failure to launch is emotional, NOT academic or intellectual. It affects kids who have no inner-directed reason to achieve, or are depressed, or feel like a failure if they can't be the absolute best at every possible thing. And the kinds of parents most likely to produce such an adult are the tiger parents.

Yeah, there are children of tiger moms who achieve everything their parents want them to (notice, their parents want them to. This breed of parenting is a form of narcissism.) and others who, once they can, do everything possible to thumb their noses at their parents Cause ultimately its the kids who are in control and the best way to prove that is to try to exert complete control over your children.

My DC is both a facebooking happy regular kid and a "high academically performing kid." Its only in the simplistic binary world of narcissism are the two mutually exclusive, are parents who aren't as controlling as them deemed destined to be failures.

I have not seen any studies on this score, but I doubt the children of Tiger moms are the ones back at home on the basement couches after university. The anecdotal experience in my small world/neighborhood does not affirm this.

+1

[Anonymous]

See, you just don't get it. The kids who aren't getting off their couches after college are not stuck in that rut because their parents didn't "mentor them" or put them in academic after school programs. This kind of failure to launch is emotional, NOT academic or intellectual. It affects kids who have no inner-directed reason to achieve, or are depressed, or feel like a failure if they can't be the absolute best at every possible thing. And the kinds of parents most likely to produce such an adult are the tiger parents.

Yeah, there are children of tiger moms who achieve everything their parents want them to (notice, their parents want them to. This breed of parenting is a form of narcissism.) and others who, once they can, do everything possible to thumb their noses at their parents Cause ultimately its the kids who are in control and the best way to prove that is to try to exert complete control over your children.

My DC is both a facebooking happy regular kid and a "high academically performing kid." Its only in the simplistic binary world of narcissism are the two mutually exclusive, are parents who aren't as controlling as them deemed destined to be failures.

Is this similar to the narcisism of redshirt parents hoping to groom the next Rhodes scholar, older and stronger Marlboro man, Kennedy-Reaganesque leader that is the star high scholar quarterback, baseball pitcher and soccer middie headed to Harvard and the Board rooms-- to fullfill parental dreams?

This redshirting and breed of parenting is a form of parental narcissism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

See, you just don't get it. The kids who aren't getting off their couches after college are not stuck in that rut because their parents didn't "mentor them" or put them in academic after school programs. This kind of failure to launch is emotional, NOT academic or intellectual. It affects kids who have no inner-directed reason to achieve, or are depressed, or feel like a failure if they can't be the absolute best at every possible thing. And the kinds of parents most likely to produce such an adult are the tiger parents.

Yeah, there are children of tiger moms who achieve everything their parents want them to (notice, their parents want them to. This breed of parenting is a form of narcissism.) and others who, once they can, do everything possible to thumb their noses at their parents Cause ultimately its the kids who are in control and the best way to prove that is to try to exert complete control over your children.

My DC is both a facebooking happy regular kid and a "high academically performing kid." Its only in the simplistic binary world of narcissism are the two mutually exclusive, are parents who aren't as controlling as them deemed destined to be failures.

I have not seen any studies on this score, but I doubt the children of Tiger moms are the ones back at home on the basement couches after university. The anecdotal experience in my small world/neighborhood does not affirm this.

+1

Maybe. But they're the ones who rarely see or speak to their parents when they are adults.

[Anonymous]

The 60 minutes clip revealed the blazon narcissism in parental strategy to redshirt their normal kids.

[Anonymous]

Maybe. But they're the ones who rarely see or speak to their parents when they are adults.

No evidence for this on my front. I see more George Hugely V types (not zygotes from Tigers) who rarely speak to their parents when they are adults. Just my observations.

[Anonymous]

...except when they crawl back to beg for money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...except when they crawl back to beg for money.

LOL!

12:40 and former child prodigy here. I rarely speak to my parents and haven't seen them in years. Don't ask for money but do try to avoid them as much as possible: Same for other similarly gifted kids now adults with overbearing parents. Most parents like mine did not achieve what they wanted in their careers so they focused on their kid's talents rather than their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Wow, that's nuts! How would a kid that young possibly get the idea that it was that important? From their parents.

What's nuts about it? Is the psychologic make up of your child different...immunity to parental guidance and mentorship? I doubt it.

Look at any parent and young in the animal kingdom ... same dynamic.

You should recognise that some parents are more interested in soccer and lacrosse for their kids and some math competition. Accept it. Different strokes for different folks. There is nothing perverse about academic and/or athletic pursuits in children. Most of us are shaped by the experiences of our families and these experiences are quite variable as are our children.

Wow, I may have to use up my daily quotient of "wows" today! I said that children should not be despondent for months if they don't get into the GT program, and this person disagreed, apparently believing they should be despondent. There is a world of difference between encouraging your children academically and teaching them they are failures if they don't meet certain goalposts. In fact, those are completely opposite goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

See, you just don't get it. The kids who aren't getting off their couches after college are not stuck in that rut because their parents didn't "mentor them" or put them in academic after school programs. This kind of failure to launch is emotional, NOT academic or intellectual. It affects kids who have no inner-directed reason to achieve, or are depressed, or feel like a failure if they can't be the absolute best at every possible thing. And the kinds of parents most likely to produce such an adult are the tiger parents.

Yeah, there are children of tiger moms who achieve everything their parents want them to (notice, their parents want them to. This breed of parenting is a form of narcissism.) and others who, once they can, do everything possible to thumb their noses at their parents Cause ultimately its the kids who are in control and the best way to prove that is to try to exert complete control over your children.

My DC is both a facebooking happy regular kid and a "high academically performing kid." Its only in the simplistic binary world of narcissism are the two mutually exclusive, are parents who aren't as controlling as them deemed destined to be failures.

I get it all right. You want Tiger moms to reel in their happy high academically performing kids in order to free up spaces for your happy facebooking and high academically performing kids in our magnet schools at the elementary, middle school, college, graduate school and professional school levels? If both our kids are happy and high performers why should any of us change? Give me one good reason. My child is not aspiring for your child's lifestyle.

You illustrate my point beautifully. You see this as a competition. You control your child in certain ways and he or she will perform in certain way. Kind of like a computer. And, again, with the binary view. My happy facebooking child is doing pretty well in terms of placement because she has discovered intellectual passions. This has nothing to do with her parents signing her up for math tutoring and extra language classes. We didn't do any of those things, though we do have a house full of books and we all love to read. Rather, we gave her space to develop, to find her own passions, and she has done so on her own terms. If you want to get competitive about it she is a straight A student at a Big 3 school. Also, she spends time on facebook with her friends. As long as you see the kids who spend time on facebook as "other," as reflections of their parents' (poor) choices, I feel for your kids.

I think prodigy has it right in terms of how kids of such parents relate to their parents as adults.

[Anonymous]

My child is not at a Big 3 and is not a straight A student. He does like to continue his academic work in the summers and after school. We would never discourage this because of your myopic opinions. Your child sounds like a genius from your description...straight A, Big 3, non-academic work after school and in the summers. Why does your child even bother with school and education?

[Anonymous]

You illustrate my point beautifully. You see this as a competition. You control your child in certain ways and he or she will perform in certain way. Kind of like a computer. And, again, with the binary view. My happy facebooking child is doing pretty well in terms of placement because she has discovered intellectual passions. This has nothing to do with her parents signing her up for math tutoring and extra language classes. We didn't do any of those things, though we do have a house full of books and we all love to read. Rather, we gave her space to develop, to find her own passions, and she has done so on her own terms. If you want to get competitive about it she is a straight A student at a Big 3 school. Also, she spends time on facebook with her friends. As long as you see the kids who spend time on facebook as "other," as reflections of their parents' (poor) choices, I feel for your kids.

I think prodigy has it right in terms of how kids of such parents relate to their parents as adults.[code]

This is the key word. The family and child viewed their child as a prodigy. The adult child has bought into this by the post. Mistake. Therein lies the problem ... an overinflated view of oneself. What does this have to do with the pursuit of academic excellence. Many children of Tiger moms do not view themselves as prodigies.

[Anonymous]

My dear friend immigrated as a child. She is a fierce tiger mom who also chose to redshirt to give her child the competitive edge academically and in sports since he would be the oldest male in the class. Redshirting in her view gave him an additional competitive edge due to maturity.


Immigrated from where (Canada)... northern or southern hemishere?

Korea--so much for the Asian sterotypes

[Anonymous]

...except when they crawl back to beg for money.

LOL!

12:40 and former child prodigy here. I rarely speak to my parents and haven't seen them in years. Don't ask for money but do try to avoid them as much as possible: Same for other similarly gifted kids now adults with overbearing parents. Most parents like mine did not achieve what they wanted in their careers so they focused on their kid's talents rather than their own.

I seriously doubt you were ever a child prodigy. This is the fundamental problem. Parents and children with hyperinflated opinions about ther potential and accomplishment. This board is riddled with this disease. This explains why you don't speak to your parents. It only takes a pin to burst a bubble and humpty dumpty comes tumbling down. That's your fundamental problem not parents who mentor and nurture their young children even with academic enrichment after school or in the summers. These parents don't view their children as prodigies. That you view yourself (and your parents) a former prodigy ... is the problem. I bet you even had 99.9% on the WPSSI. LOL!