Tired of liberal intolerance

[takoma]

RantingAtheist wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do liberals not understand they are trying to force their views and their morality on conservatives just as much as conservatives are pushing their views. The only difference is whether or not you agree with the position taken.

And liberals act like because they are basing their opinions not from religion that it is somehow better or correct.

Since liberals base their opinions on reason--rather than received moral instruction from a leader, or an arbitrary book--then yes, in a pluralist society founded on secular Enlightenment values the process (if not the outcome) is better, and likely to be more correct. That's not to say that conservatives, working backwards from their desired conclusion, can't induct some rational argument. And when they're successful at reverse-engineering a rational argument, that's likely to be respected, even if we don't agree.

But, no, "Pastor Bob says so" or "it's right here in this book" is no way to run a railroad.

Ranter, while I appreciate the humor of your ID, I fear that it enourages the ranting right to equate their religious rants with the reasoned responses of most of us liberals and/or atheists. I won't claim that there are no rants from our side, but I think the distinction is often lost.

There should be no confusion between reason and rant. And there should be no confusion between the freedom to exercise religion and the freedom to force one's religion on others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

RantingAtheist wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do liberals not understand they are trying to force their views and their morality on conservatives just as much as conservatives are pushing their views. The only difference is whether or not you agree with the position taken.

And liberals act like because they are basing their opinions not from religion that it is somehow better or correct.

Since liberals base their opinions on reason--rather than received moral instruction from a leader, or an arbitrary book--then yes, in a pluralist society founded on secular Enlightenment values the process (if not the outcome) is better, and likely to be more correct. That's not to say that conservatives, working backwards from their desired conclusion, can't induct some rational argument. And when they're successful at reverse-engineering a rational argument, that's likely to be respected, even if we don't agree.

But, no, "Pastor Bob says so" or "it's right here in this book" is no way to run a railroad.

What do you base your morality on, CNN or MSNBC? Granted religion isn't perfect it does lay a solid moral backing to raise a family.

Most rational people would agree that if you wish to use religion as your solid moral backing to raise your family, you should have every right to do so. My argument would be that every family has the right to decide for itself what to use as its solid moral backing, without lectures, intimidation, marginalization, and shaming by government. We raise our kids with no religious structure, but we are moral, decent, kind, generous, compassionate people who make these the values in our home.

I don't need moral instruction from the church, or from sanctimonious asshole politicians currently seeking the Republican nomination. Republicans used to be the party of more individual liberty, not less. But now they want to legislate independent thought and action in a way that is offensive to most rational people. They have made things nasty, and hyper-personal, and anti-intellectual, and unreasonable. Your crap-ass comment about getting morality from CNN or MSNBC--you add nothing but toxicity.

[Anonymous]

This notion that one side is more intolerant than another, proves the point that intolerance exists on both sides. BOTH sides have members that want to force their beliefs on others. The only tolerant group are the people who can see that both sides are entitled to their opinions and don't throw around judgmental statements classifying an entire group as having the exact same character flaws.

[Anonymous]

What do you base your morality on, CNN or MSNBC? Granted religion isn't perfect it does lay a solid moral backing to raise a family.

All religions, or just yours? I guess my question is, would you also make that same statement about militant, radical Islam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One more thing: when you have the 12 kids you can't support, we will feed them free lunch and get them free healthcare anyway. Because, see, we're liberal that way.

Where as the church would gladly help out

Well not all churches. I once attended a mega church in Tampa Florida. The church was so popular that it had three different services on Sunday. I was so into church. I remember this one woman going to the pastor asking for help. She had lost her job and had a two or three children. I honestly do not recall if there was a father, but that is not necessary for this tale. The woman obviously needes some help. The first think the pastor wanted to know before he would extend her a Christ hand was when she was working, how much did she tithe. That was a WTF moment for me. I should have ran from the church then, but it took more lessons in the non-christ like mode of christianity to knock some sense into me. No, the church will not necessarily help the widow with 12 kids. They might if there is something in it for the church. But other than that, the church is a big business with its shrines, thirty thousand dollar toilets, and super wealthy pastors.

[RantingAtheist]

Anonymous wrote:

RantingAtheist wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do liberals not understand they are trying to force their views and their morality on conservatives just as much as conservatives are pushing their views. The only difference is whether or not you agree with the position taken.

And liberals act like because they are basing their opinions not from religion that it is somehow better or correct.

Since liberals base their opinions on reason--rather than received moral instruction from a leader, or an arbitrary book--then yes, in a pluralist society founded on secular Enlightenment values the process (if not the outcome) is better, and likely to be more correct. That's not to say that conservatives, working backwards from their desired conclusion, can't induct some rational argument. And when they're successful at reverse-engineering a rational argument, that's likely to be respected, even if we don't agree.

But, no, "Pastor Bob says so" or "it's right here in this book" is no way to run a railroad.

What do you base your morality on, CNN or MSNBC? Granted religion isn't perfect it does lay a solid moral backing to raise a family.

I forget who it was that said (to paraphrase) there's no moral act that a religious person could perform that a non-believer could not. But there are countless numbers of morally abominable acts that a religious person happily performs that a non-religious person never would.

Volunteer at a soup kitchen? Build schools in Africa? Love thy neighbor? Have a faithful loving marriage? All things we all agree on.

Remove a young girls' clitoris? Cut off a newborn infant's foreskin sans anesthesia? Non-theist says, "WTF???"

So there's at least some evidence that religious folk are no more, nor less, moral than non-believers. They just have an added layer of dogma and customs that potentially interfere with living a moral life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

RantingAtheist wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do liberals not understand they are trying to force their views and their morality on conservatives just as much as conservatives are pushing their views. The only difference is whether or not you agree with the position taken.

And liberals act like because they are basing their opinions not from religion that it is somehow better or correct.

Since liberals base their opinions on reason--rather than received moral instruction from a leader, or an arbitrary book--then yes, in a pluralist society founded on secular Enlightenment values the process (if not the outcome) is better, and likely to be more correct. That's not to say that conservatives, working backwards from their desired conclusion, can't induct some rational argument. And when they're successful at reverse-engineering a rational argument, that's likely to be respected, even if we don't agree.

But, no, "Pastor Bob says so" or "it's right here in this book" is no way to run a railroad.

What do you base your morality on, CNN or MSNBC? Granted religion isn't perfect it does lay a solid moral backing to raise a family.

50% of all the marriages in the US end in divorce. I don't think this is working out very well....

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:This notion that one side is more intolerant than another, proves the point that intolerance exists on both sides. BOTH sides have members that want to force their beliefs on others. The only tolerant group are the people who can see that both sides are entitled to their opinions and don't throw around judgmental statements classifying an entire group as having the exact same character flaws.

I'm shocked that you would determine that the only tolerant group is the group that thinks exactly like you. In a similar vein, I find that the only well-dressed people are those who dress exactly like me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We get it. You people hate Christians especially Catholics. In your ideal world you would have a country with no Christianity. This is sort of typical of the modern liberal, profess to be very tolerant and open minded except about things they disagree with. So go ahead and enjoy putting people of faith down and trying to force your view of morality down our throats while screaming tolerance.

It's not really an issue of tolerance. I think the difference here is that liberals put the Constitution ahead of religion when it comes to the governmental creation, interpretation, and enforcement of public policy. Conservatives will take their respective religion over the Constitution any day.

liberal is your religon

When did liberal become a dirty word. Jesus was a liberal. It has been told world-wide that he was actually crucified because of his liberalism. You see it has been reported that he said to take of the widows and orphans. he forgave and befriended the prostitute, he fed bread and fish to the multitude, he comforted the sick, he said love thy neighbor. he actually siad to pay taxes, remember the render onto Caesar what is due Caesar.

Frankly, I am proud to be a liberal. I wish I was a better liberal. I donate to both Planned Parenthood for the women who do not have adequate healthcare, and I donate my money and most importantly my time to many organizations that are the lifeline for children and the hungry. If not for white liberals joining with Blacks, I suppose I would be cleaning your toilets and my wonderful little gregarious, mulit-lingual Black son would have a future as a school janitor, ala Newt. For those reasons and many others, I hope the liberals are here to stay.

[RantingAtheist]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This notion that one side is more intolerant than another, proves the point that intolerance exists on both sides. BOTH sides have members that want to force their beliefs on others. The only tolerant group are the people who can see that both sides are entitled to their opinions and don't throw around judgmental statements classifying an entire group as having the exact same character flaws.

I'm shocked that you would determine that the only tolerant group is the group that thinks exactly like you. In a similar vein, I find that the only well-dressed people are those who dress exactly like me.

Good to see that, in addition to some of the more mainstream religions here on DCUM, we have folks like PP here representing some of the smaller denominations like High Broderism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

As in, if the Catholic Church wants to play politics, it can't then cry foul when people play right back.

-signed a liberal Catholic

Secular religions - Democratic Liberalism, Communism, Fascism, Nazism, Socialism

You can try to combine liberal with Catholicism but you will molest both beliefs in attempt to blend them. It's like trying to put the square shape in the round hole.

Bad choice of words used in the same sentence. Not smart. Not smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We get it. You people hate Christians especially Catholics. In your ideal world you would have a country with no Christianity. This is sort of typical of the modern liberal, profess to be very tolerant and open minded except about things they disagree with. So go ahead and enjoy putting people of faith down and trying to force your view of morality down our throats while screaming tolerance.

It's not really an issue of tolerance. I think the difference here is that liberals put the Constitution ahead of religion when it comes to the governmental creation, interpretation, and enforcement of public policy. Conservatives will take their respective religion over the Constitution any day.

liberal is your religon

When did liberal become a dirty word. Jesus was a liberal. It has been told world-wide that he was actually crucified because of his liberalism. You see it has been reported that he said to take of the widows and orphans. he forgave and befriended the prostitute, he fed bread and fish to the multitude, he comforted the sick, he said love thy neighbor. he actually siad to pay taxes, remember the render onto Caesar what is due Caesar.

Frankly, I am proud to be a liberal. I wish I was a better liberal. I donate to both Planned Parenthood for the women who do not have adequate healthcare, and I donate my money and most importantly my time to many organizations that are the lifeline for children and the hungry. If not for white liberals joining with Blacks, I suppose I would be cleaning your toilets and my wonderful little gregarious, mulit-lingual Black son would have a future as a school janitor, ala Newt. For those reasons and many others, I hope the liberals are here to stay.

I am with you! I was raised in the Catholic church but have major issues with modern day Christianity and consider myself a liberal. Jesus was a total liberal. If he came back now, he'd be hanging with all the people the Religious Right are persecuting. The Religious Right are the modern day Pharasees and they can't see it. They preach division, discrimination, and even hate in the name of someone who said to love your neighbor as yourself.

[takoma]

Anonymous wrote:This notion that one side is more intolerant than another, proves the point that intolerance exists on both sides. BOTH sides have members that want to force their beliefs on others. The only tolerant group are the people who can see that both sides are entitled to their opinions and don't throw around judgmental statements classifying an entire group as having the exact same character flaws.

Actually, since it is very unlikely that tolerance would divide exactly 50-50, it proves nothing of the sort. Sure there is intolerance on both sides, but I do not know of a concerted attempt by the left to turn "conservative" into a dirty word, the way Fox and many GOP politicos do with "liberal" and "progressive". There are conservatives, like Scarborough and Brooks, to give a couple of examples, who respect people of varied opinions, and some on the left are intolerant of other views, but I would strongly maintain that it is a fiction to equate the institutionalized intolerance of much of the right with the sporadic closed-mindedness of some on the left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We get it. You people hate Christians especially Catholics. In your ideal world you would have a country with no Christianity. This is sort of typical of the modern liberal, profess to be very tolerant and open minded except about things they disagree with. So go ahead and enjoy putting people of faith down and trying to force your view of morality down our throats while screaming tolerance.

Only 39% of Catholics describe themselves as political conservatives. So maybe you should go back to your parish and look for answers there.

[Anonymous]

OP: I'm tired of posters' intolerance of our intolerance. We have a right to our intolerance and that should be tolerated.