What's better, fitting into your neighborhood socially, or loving the location?

[Anonymous]

I recently bought a house in a great location (North Arlington 22207, pretty close to metro but not walkable) and while a lot of the houses in my 'hood are very pricey (over $1M), the ones on my street really aren't. I'm a single mom, so I feel like I'd maybe not fit in 100% in any SFH neighborhood, but my neighbors have really made me feel welcome. And frankly, I don't expect my neighbors to become my best friends - I have plenty of friends in other nearby neighborhoods. I just want nice people around us, who say hi when we see each other, and stop for conversations sometimes. I've gotten that.

[Anonymous]

We love our location and the house we purchased but we do not fit into the neighborhood socially or demographically at all. And our neighbors' aloofness (never even met the next door neighbors on one side or the across the street neighbors and it's been over a year) has shown us that they just don't give a crap who lives next door (or across the stress) from them. The reason we don't fit in is that the neighborhood is older families (people with middle school and high school kids) and we don't even have kids yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love our neighborhood's quiet streets and convenient physical location (we're renting). But I know there are further-out, less convenient locations where I'd fit in better socially (more alternative, more international, more diverse). I think if my husband and I didn't have kids we would definitely look to buy where we are now, since our social life doesn't have to revolve around our neighborhood. However, I think about my kids and the friends they will make through school.

Is it better to be in a great location and be clinging to the bottom of the social ladder (here we'd be lucky to find something we could afford, and then it'd be a stretch for us), or to be in a neighborhood we can afford without such a stretch and where we might find more like-minded families. I do want my children to "fit in" and not feel like outcasts. I also am not very patient with them having playdates when I find the other kids spoiled and rude, and I'm finding that here. I know I'll get in trouble for saying that... I guess I'm just not good with kids. But I am sure there must be lower-key families like ours in this neighborhood too, and it could just take time to fit in.

If we stay in the great-location neighborhood, the investment in our home will be more secure.

so are you trying say you are foreign born?

If so - you will be miserable anywhere you live if you keep fantasizing that in your culture, or your country, everybody does it right (buys the right kind of house, acts the right way, eats the right kind of food) and ends up being perfect parents who have sweet and helpful and non-spolied kids all the time.

Your country or culture isn't superior - and neither is mine - so get over yourself and realize that everybody gets to make their own decisions on how to live and parent and its you who has the problem. You need to learn to accept that people do things differrently and that's ok and that by them just doing it differently and telling you about it does not mean that you have to change they way you live or that you aren't free to tell them how you prefer to do it. It also doesn't mean that they are judging you or even really care all that much. Sure some of them will but the vast majority of people are so wrapped up in their own lives that they are not all that interested in yours as you believe them to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do any of the posters saying "Location, location, location" actually live in a neighborhood where they don't fit in socially or socio-economically? (aside from the Cleveland Park poster who found that she didn't and chose to move)?
It's easy to say "location, location, location" until you're stuck in a neighborhood where you have very little in common with 90% your neighbors.
We live in one (beautiful house in upper NW DC which we afforded due to a combination of factors) and we often wish we had moved to Silver Spring, Takoma Park, etc instead. We have a decent enough income but we don't have the same lifestyles as any of our neighbors. I SAH but I don't have a full time nanny. I don't have a vacation home. I don't drive a luxury SUV. I don't wear all Patagonia. etc. etc. etc. People are nice but we are very different and I really wish we were surrounded by a different (more international, more middle class) community. I had no idea this would matter when I was buying a house and hadn't been in this situation. I would have said "location" as well and I did--evidenced by where we bought our house.

We do have social circles and friends all over the city but I wish we had them next door.

I think it's about really you and OP, and not the neighbors. Could it be that you are just projecting a bit on your neighbors? Unfairly? I, too, live in a beautiful house in NW DC (that we afforded on our own), but like you also do not have a full time nanny, vacation home, luxury SUV, and would never spend money on Patagonia. And, I have all kinds of neighbor friends.

Often, when people are holding back, people pick up those unapproachable vibes and respond accordingly. I think it was OP who said she "really tried," but if you are already judging the situation, that's not a lot of effort. I have hung out with friends in Mt. Rainier who have complained about their neighbors, so it's not all hunky dory there. It's attitude, plain and simple. OP, dig down and find the best solution for you and your family.

I'm the OP, and I think there have been quite a few posters who related to what I said and described a similar situation. It must have been one of them who said she'd "really tried". I haven't really tried yet, as we are still new here. And I don't want to give the wrong impression. It seems like there are many nice people here. People have been nice about introducing themselves, and the kids have been nice to our kids. So, really I'm just giving you my gut feeling. The kids seem nice enough, but when we actually do playdates, I find myself surprised how rude the kids have been to me and to my kids. (My kids don't seem to mind, so it's not that bad, I guess. But I mind on their behalf.) But this is just a handful of playdates. I'm sure there are kids here who are not like that at all. I know it takes time. It's hard to describe what I mean. I don't feel relaxed here, like you feel if you are really at home. Like how the one PP wrote that she felt about Takoma Park, and the other about Silver Spring. I'd like the feeling of moving into a neighborhood and having it feel like home.

But I know there is another side to this. There are some people who bring the feeling of "home" with them. Like the previous PP who was so happy with her community. Maybe it's really just that she was lucky, but I also get the sense that she's the kind of person who reaches out and enriches the whole neighborhood with her energy and community spirit. I tell myself I should stay here and be like that. But I still would love to have the kind of place that fits us like a glove. I don't know how to describe it, but feel some PPs understand.

OP, I'm with you until you say things that can be construed stereotypically...that is if you truly believe the kids in a wealthier area ruder than kids in a lower income area. That's ridiculous! Frankly, if you believe it, you see what you want to see. And, I say this as someone who grew up on both sides of the tracks. My mother wouldn't say that one group was ruder than another. Different in many ways, but she wouldn't boil it down to that. The parents in both neighborhoods wanted the best for their kids, ate dinner, had yards, had families, loved people, and had been hurt. That's common ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love our neighborhood's quiet streets and convenient physical location (we're renting). But I know there are further-out, less convenient locations where I'd fit in better socially (more alternative, more international, more diverse). I think if my husband and I didn't have kids we would definitely look to buy where we are now, since our social life doesn't have to revolve around our neighborhood. However, I think about my kids and the friends they will make through school.

Is it better to be in a great location and be clinging to the bottom of the social ladder (here we'd be lucky to find something we could afford, and then it'd be a stretch for us), or to be in a neighborhood we can afford without such a stretch and where we might find more like-minded families. I do want my children to "fit in" and not feel like outcasts. I also am not very patient with them having playdates when I find the other kids spoiled and rude, and I'm finding that here. I know I'll get in trouble for saying that... I guess I'm just not good with kids. But I am sure there must be lower-key families like ours in this neighborhood too, and it could just take time to fit in.

If we stay in the great-location neighborhood, the investment in our home will be more secure.

so are you trying say you are foreign born?

If so - you will be miserable anywhere you live if you keep fantasizing that in your culture, or your country, everybody does it right (buys the right kind of house, acts the right way, eats the right kind of food) and ends up being perfect parents who have sweet and helpful and non-spolied kids all the time.

Your country or culture isn't superior - and neither is mine - so get over yourself and realize that everybody gets to make their own decisions on how to live and parent and its you who has the problem. You need to learn to accept that people do things differrently and that's ok and that by them just doing it differently and telling you about it does not mean that you have to change they way you live or that you aren't free to tell them how you prefer to do it. It also doesn't mean that they are judging you or even really care all that much. Sure some of them will but the vast majority of people are so wrapped up in their own lives that they are not all that interested in yours as you believe them to be.

That's a whole lot you read from one word. We don't fantasize that everyone does it right back home. But I don't think our desire to be a neighborhood that's ever so slightly mixed is any different from your desire to not be the only white/black/Asian/etc kid on the block.

[Anonymous]

I'm the OP, and realize that the immediate PP sounds like he/she is the OP responding to the person who was criticizing me for being foreign born and thinking my culture is better. I think here the immediate PP is foreign born and making a good response.

However, just to clarify (not that it really matters in regard to the main question) I'm the OP and I'm not foreign born. I'm pretty average, probably, for an American. (ie, one parent is foreign born, the other side came to the US in the 1600s.) However, I have lived overseas for years as an adult, and I do like an international community. Nothing wrong with that, right?

I'm sorry I didn't write better. I can see that a lot of what I have written can offend people in lots of different ways. (and I haven't provided enough context to prevent them from interpreting it a certain way.) I have still found the discussion helpful. I don't believe that kids get progressively ruder as HHI increases. But I see that I've given that impression. It's very hard to have any useful discussion of social atmosphere, but I think everyone can agree that it varies by community, and on a larger scale by parts of the country. (ie, culturally, the is Southeast different in some ways from the Northeast, which is different from the pacific Northwest, which is different from California) But as soon as you try to put any differences into words, you get yourself in trouble. But I think people agree that different neighborhoods here are different in some ways, and in general I think most of us might enjoy living in some neighborhoods more than they will enjoy living in others. And all neighborhoods will have some rude kids and some conservative people and some alternative people and what have you. But there can still be a neighborhood vibe. Fair enough?

I'm not feeling judged by my neighbors and I don't think I'm superior. I just find that here I tend to feel I put my foot in my mouth a lot. I prefer not to feel that way. And there are neighborhoods where I don't feel that way so often, because people understand what I'm saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I -think- I understand what you're saying. I would fit in much better in Takoma Park, MD, and Mt. Rainier and Hyattsville I think, based on all the people I like who live there.

However, I happen to live in a much-more-convenient-to-downtown neighborhood along the Red Line. It's also scads wealthier according to the 2010 Census and getting moreso.

I don't "connect" right away with my go-gettum' immediate neighbors who earn hundreds of thousands a year (yes, they do) as an equity partner of BL Swiper. I do connect right away with everyone I meet in TP, Mt. Rainier, etc.

Still, I stay put for reasons PP have mentioned: convenience, property values, in my case, supreme walkability / Metro access ... lower crime stats ....

LOL BL Swiper™ sewer vacuum nozzle.

[Anonymous]

Another vote for the Takoma Park/Silver Spring Area. We used to live in Cleveland Park, but couldn't afford to stay. I had mixed feelings about moving out of the city, but am so much happier here. We have met so many more nice people here who are more down to earth. Also, we're only a few blocks from the Silver Spring Metro, so it doesn't really feel that much less convenient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do any of the posters saying "Location, location, location" actually live in a neighborhood where they don't fit in socially or socio-economically? (aside from the Cleveland Park poster who found that she didn't and chose to move)?
It's easy to say "location, location, location" until you're stuck in a neighborhood where you have very little in common with 90% your neighbors.
We live in one (beautiful house in upper NW DC which we afforded due to a combination of factors) and we often wish we had moved to Silver Spring, Takoma Park, etc instead. We have a decent enough income but we don't have the same lifestyles as any of our neighbors. I SAH but I don't have a full time nanny. I don't have a vacation home. I don't drive a luxury SUV. I don't wear all Patagonia. etc. etc. etc. People are nice but we are very different and I really wish we were surrounded by a different (more international, more middle class) community. I had no idea this would matter when I was buying a house and hadn't been in this situation. I would have said "location" as well and I did--evidenced by where we bought our house.

We do have social circles and friends all over the city but I wish we had them next door.

It may be because you are a SAHM so this wasn't an issue, but for me, the decreased commuting time was a huge factor in our decision. Time with my kids for both my husband and I will trump getting along with the neighbors or fitting in every.single.time. Also schools were a factor, we are happy with our commute and schools. That said, I don't share the OP's or your's feeling that I don't fit in so luckily we didn't have to choose one or the other. And it may be more prononunced for you since you SAH. So I get that, but for most of us, something has to give. We have a set budget and will look for things like commute, walkability, schools, etc., and rank accordingly. Fitting in is one factor, but it has to put somewhere in that priority list. Some I guess will rate it higher than me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But I know there is another side to this. There are some people who bring the feeling of "home" with them. Like the previous PP who was so happy with her community. Maybe it's really just that she was lucky, but I also get the sense that she's the kind of person who reaches out and enriches the whole neighborhood with her energy and community spirit. I tell myself I should stay here and be like that. But I still would love to have the kind of place that fits us like a glove. I don't know how to describe it, but feel some PPs understand.

I get what the OP is saying. We picked where we live by the commute and schools. For awhile my kids went to a preschool that was closer to my job than home and I have to say I had a lot more in common with the families. Not everyone was outgoing but I can't think of a conversation that left me feeling like I had nothing in common. In fact lots of time we knew people in common, had the same philosophy on kids and didn't need to explain/debate/ defend because we knew where the person was coming from, one person I was convinced led the same life as me, we worked in the same field at many of the same companies at different times. My neighbors, while people are very nice, there isn't the same connection. When you start talking the local preschool or elementary school, I think the odds are closer to what a pp mentioned, maybe 1 out of 15 people, would be someone I would follow-up with a play date or get together and then you throw in activities and schedules and it may not ever work out.

But I took the quote from the OP because I agree about the type of person that reaches out. I'm very guarded. I am a conversationalist and will try to find common ground with anyone but I don't really let my guard down unless I meet that person that has that generosity of spirit that makes me feel comfortable enough to be real and then I'm willing to help them out, be silly with the kids around them, reach out to make plans and not worry who made contact last or take it personal if they can't make something, share parts of my childhood
or culture even if it isn't their culture etc. So to the person that reaches out like that they probably find "home" most places they live. Now this is me, I imagine young kids aren't as guarded and make friends more easily. Being involved in an activity like swim team, or church group or scouts etc. would give them a chance to spend time with a small group of kids every week and for you to get to know other families that live close by. I don't regret my decision to pick commute over neighborhood fit, but I realize I have to work harder for the social aspect .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:do you want your car being broken into, child being mugged?

This sounds like a Bethesda or Potomac alarmist. Are those your neighbors? I would hightail it out of there.

I grew up in Potomac and we could move there if we wanted to, but there is no way I would like to live there. I prefer Silver Spring. Many fewer neighbors who respond like the above person. Much more international and lots of good restaurants and parks. And our school is pretty good too.