Gabriella Giffords Assasinated...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfEcZlO-APE&feature=related nuff said

Democrats should condemn Bill Ayers and join Republicans in their call for more nail-bomb control. Additionally Obama should put Bill Ayers in jail.

How is it that in the midst of a great tragedy, in which many people were killed, you feel the need to redirect discussion to a thing that happened forty years ago? You are sick in the head. I'd hate to see your MySpace page.

It is highly relevant, given his rhetoric and history of association with President Obama.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:It is highly relevant, given his rhetoric and history of association with President Obama.

I guess I missed the part where President Obama attempted to assassinate Gabriella Giffords.

[Anonymous]

So... are we going to call this guy a terrorist? Or is he, um, not tan enough for such a designation?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly relevant, given his rhetoric and history of association with President Obama.

I guess I missed the part where President Obama attempted to assassinate Gabriella Giffords.

Hey, sharp eyes, very good! I view our president as a highly intelligent, emotionally stable person who's devoted to his family and the well-being of others, don't you? The point is that there are people spewing extreme views in both parties. Let's not try to act as if the Democrats and liberals "are above all that."

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:I'll do something a bit out of character and defend the right wing -- at least to an extent. Back when Nidal Malik Hasan killed 13 fellow soldiers at Ft. Hood, many were quick to call him a Muslim terrorist. I argued that it was more a case of a troubled individual who happened to be Muslim and the event was comparable to Columbine rather than a terrorist act. Similarly, I think the attack on Giffords also is a Columbine-type attack committed by a troubled individual. While that individual may have espoused particular political views, at this point, I believe his mental issues are more of a factor than his political views.

That does not mean that I condone the near-constant embrace of violent language by a large number of right-wing figures. Such rhetoric is condemnable and I condemn it. Whether it is Sharron Angle's "2nd Amendment remedies" or Sarah Palin's targets, it has no place in our political discourse. The same is true for Democrat Joe Manchin's advertisement showing him shooting the cap-and-trade bill. I think anyone who has to react to a piece of paper with a gun has severe masculinity issues, but that's a whole different discussion.

As for the poster who is trying to redirect this discussion to focus on Bill Ayers, he should probably stick to sniffing Sarah Palin's underwear.

J-

While I appreciate your consistency and agree with your larger point... the fact is, Hasan was and continues to be labeled a terrorist and may be brought up on such charges. This guy will most assuredly be treated by both the media, the public at large, and the legal system as a lone nut. No one will wonder what is wrong with white folks or practitioners of his belief system or those of his political affiliation. He, like all white criminals, will get the "lone wolf" designation and no one will even suggest looking at larger trends. But when the criminal is black, we get all the "rap music" nonsense. If he's Arab and/or Muslim, we get the terrorist angle. If he's Hispanic/Latino, we get the immigrant conversation. Hell, if he is really a she, at least one person will make a PMS joke. But when it's a white dude, the most we'll hear about is politics, with so many quick (and potentially right) to defend or deny any linkage. Privilege is a beautiful thing...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I'll do something a bit out of character and defend the right wing -- at least to an extent. Back when Nidal Malik Hasan killed 13 fellow soldiers at Ft. Hood, many were quick to call him a Muslim terrorist. I argued that it was more a case of a troubled individual who happened to be Muslim and the event was comparable to Columbine rather than a terrorist act. Similarly, I think the attack on Giffords also is a Columbine-type attack committed by a troubled individual. While that individual may have espoused particular political views, at this point, I believe his mental issues are more of a factor than his political views.

That does not mean that I condone the near-constant embrace of violent language by a large number of right-wing figures. Such rhetoric is condemnable and I condemn it. Whether it is Sharron Angle's "2nd Amendment remedies" or Sarah Palin's targets, it has no place in our political discourse. The same is true for Democrat Joe Manchin's advertisement showing him shooting the cap-and-trade bill. I think anyone who has to react to a piece of paper with a gun has severe masculinity issues, but that's a whole different discussion.

As for the poster who is trying to redirect this discussion to focus on Bill Ayers, he should probably stick to sniffing Sarah Palin's underwear.

J-

While I appreciate your consistency and agree with your larger point... the fact is, Hasan was and continues to be labeled a terrorist and may be brought up on such charges. This guy will most assuredly be treated by both the media, the public at large, and the legal system as a lone nut. No one will wonder what is wrong with white folks or practitioners of his belief system or those of his political affiliation. He, like all white criminals, will get the "lone wolf" designation and no one will even suggest looking at larger trends. But when the criminal is black, we get all the "rap music" nonsense. If he's Arab and/or Muslim, we get the terrorist angle. If he's Hispanic/Latino, we get the immigrant conversation. Hell, if he is really a she, at least one person will make a PMS joke. But when it's a white dude, the most we'll hear about is politics, with so many quick (and potentially right) to defend or deny any linkage. Privilege is a beautiful thing...

I'm a white, southern, conservative to moderate female voter. Whenever I hear of a lone shooter with wildly extreme political views and/or a serial shooter, only two things come to mind: white and male. We have a long way to go with our treatment of minorities in this country, but I honestly don't think most people give "white dudes" a free pass on these types of crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I'll do something a bit out of character and defend the right wing -- at least to an extent. Back when Nidal Malik Hasan killed 13 fellow soldiers at Ft. Hood, many were quick to call him a Muslim terrorist. I argued that it was more a case of a troubled individual who happened to be Muslim and the event was comparable to Columbine rather than a terrorist act. Similarly, I think the attack on Giffords also is a Columbine-type attack committed by a troubled individual. While that individual may have espoused particular political views, at this point, I believe his mental issues are more of a factor than his political views.

That does not mean that I condone the near-constant embrace of violent language by a large number of right-wing figures. Such rhetoric is condemnable and I condemn it. Whether it is Sharron Angle's "2nd Amendment remedies" or Sarah Palin's targets, it has no place in our political discourse. The same is true for Democrat Joe Manchin's advertisement showing him shooting the cap-and-trade bill. I think anyone who has to react to a piece of paper with a gun has severe masculinity issues, but that's a whole different discussion.

As for the poster who is trying to redirect this discussion to focus on Bill Ayers, he should probably stick to sniffing Sarah Palin's underwear.

J-

While I appreciate your consistency and agree with your larger point... the fact is, Hasan was and continues to be labeled a terrorist and may be brought up on such charges. This guy will most assuredly be treated by both the media, the public at large, and the legal system as a lone nut. No one will wonder what is wrong with white folks or practitioners of his belief system or those of his political affiliation. He, like all white criminals, will get the "lone wolf" designation and no one will even suggest looking at larger trends. But when the criminal is black, we get all the "rap music" nonsense. If he's Arab and/or Muslim, we get the terrorist angle. If he's Hispanic/Latino, we get the immigrant conversation. Hell, if he is really a she, at least one person will make a PMS joke. But when it's a white dude, the most we'll hear about is politics, with so many quick (and potentially right) to defend or deny any linkage. Privilege is a beautiful thing...

I'm a white, southern, conservative to moderate female voter. Whenever I hear of a lone shooter with wildly extreme political views and/or a serial shooter, only two things come to mind: white and male. We have a long way to go with our treatment of minorities in this country, but I honestly don't think most people give "white dudes" a free pass on these types of crimes.

That is all well and good, and I appreciate your candor on the subject. But the fact is, we never examine white culture or male culture when these situations happens. No one says, "What's wrong with Rock and Roll!" or "Why are *those people* so violent?" He is treated as an individual, even if we recognize and acknowledge his race and gender (and more).

As they say, whites fail as individuals and succeed as a group; minorities succeed as individuals and fail as a group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly relevant, given his rhetoric and history of association with President Obama.

I guess I missed the part where President Obama attempted to assassinate Gabriella Giffords.

Hey, sharp eyes, very good! I view our president as a highly intelligent, emotionally stable person who's devoted to his family and the well-being of others, don't you? The point is that there are people spewing extreme views in both parties. Let's not try to act as if the Democrats and liberals "are above all that."

Bill Ayers is not a politician. He is not building a PAC to fund candidates, and he is not considering a run for the Presidency. He is not in charge of a party or movement that is currently influencing the American political scene. If your point is that left wing people are capable of violence, sure. I think we all knew that.

But the issue at hand is that a current, active political movement is using language of hatred and violence in building its party. It is having an effect on people. It was serious enough that it had Giffords on camera, months ago, worried for her safety. Someone smashed in the door of her office months ago after the health care vote.

Sarah Palin has been using hunting metaphors all the damn time. It's not just the crosshairs graphic that she sheepishly took down yesterday. She says things like "Don't react. Reload". The tea party candidate who ran against Giffords did a fundraiser with this advertisement: "Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly".

And it's not like these things are isolated. The hatred that came from the first Tea Party rally on the mall, the assaults on liberal protestors, etc. got out of hand in the last election cycle.

So if you want to deny what your movement is doing and hide behind the red herring of Bill Ayers, a washout who committed a crime 40 years ago, is just plain irresponsible. I don't expect you to put Ollie North in jail for selling missiles to Iran. And I wouldn't act like a dumbass and ignore what's going on in my own party until Ollie North was finally brought to justice. Stop pointing fingers. Take responsibility for what your movement is doing today, here and now.






If you

[Anonymous]

Sarah Palin condemns acts like this and thinks the crimanals should get the death penalty. Obama recieves guidence and fundraising advise from murderers like Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorn (Michelles'. law collegue). Vote republican if you want people who condemn terror and punish it in any form.

[Anonymous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxoiZdBSi-g Democrats/ Obamas friends/ wake up America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly relevant, given his rhetoric and history of association with President Obama.

I guess I missed the part where President Obama attempted to assassinate Gabriella Giffords.

Hey, sharp eyes, very good! I view our president as a highly intelligent, emotionally stable person who's devoted to his family and the well-being of others, don't you? The point is that there are people spewing extreme views in both parties. Let's not try to act as if the Democrats and liberals "are above all that."

Bill Ayers is not a politician. He is not building a PAC to fund candidates, and he is not considering a run for the Presidency. He is not in charge of a party or movement that is currently influencing the American political scene. If your point is that left wing people are capable of violence, sure. I think we all knew that.

But the issue at hand is that a current, active political movement is using language of hatred and violence in building its party. It is having an effect on people. It was serious enough that it had Giffords on camera, months ago, worried for her safety. Someone smashed in the door of her office months ago after the health care vote.

Sarah Palin has been using hunting metaphors all the damn time. It's not just the crosshairs graphic that she sheepishly took down yesterday. She says things like "Don't react. Reload". The tea party candidate who ran against Giffords did a fundraiser with this advertisement: "Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly".

And it's not like these things are isolated. The hatred that came from the first Tea Party rally on the mall, the assaults on liberal protestors, etc. got out of hand in the last election cycle.

So if you want to deny what your movement is doing and hide behind the red herring of Bill Ayers, a washout who committed a crime 40 years ago, is just plain irresponsible. I don't expect you to put Ollie North in jail for selling missiles to Iran. And I wouldn't act like a dumbass and ignore what's going on in my own party until Ollie North was finally brought to justice. Stop pointing fingers. Take responsibility for what your movement is doing today, here and now.






If you

Whoaaa . . .! I'm neither a Sarah Palin supporter nor a member of any movement, Tea Party or otherwise. You're making a very wrong assumption about my thinking and voting history to boldly say "your movement." Clearly, you and I don't agree about Bill Ayers. I think his "history" and involvement in behind the scene politics is far more recent than 40 years ago.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Jeff that from what I have read so far, this shooter was unfortunately a mentally deranged person who did something deadly.

However, putting all the violent talk on the right wing is just wrong. It is has been by both sides:



Dems Also Use ‘Target Maps’ for Election Fundraising
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2010/04/01/another-media-double-standard-dems-also-used-target-map-elections#ixzz1AVKG2NqI

Vice President Biden Wants to Strangle Opponents
http://www.publiusforum.com/2010/10/07/vice-president-biden-wants-to-strangle-opponents/

Slate’s Anti-Wall Street Mob Populism: ‘We Should Go After Them with Pitchforks, Knives, Guns, Clubs…’
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2010/04/24/slate-s-anti-wall-street-mob-populism-we-should-go-after-them-pitchforks-#ixzz1AVKXQKft

Stephanie Miller Fantasizes Drunks With Baseball Bats Beating O’Reilly, Beck
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2010/07/23/stephanie-miller-fantasizes-drunks-baseball-beating-oreilly-beck-g#ixzz1AVKkA3v7

Rep Weiner advocates puching Bill O’Reilly in the nose
http://thehill.com/blogs/twitter-room/other-news/92267-weiner-i-follow-twitter-for-the-tea-party-and-just-show-up-to-f-with-them

Violent Liberal Hate Rhetoric: Fifteen Quotes
http://townhall.com/columnists/JohnHawkins/2010/03/30/violent_liberal_hate_rhetoric_fifteen_quotes

WaPo Civility: ‘Knock Every Racist and Homophobic Tooth Out of Their Cro-Magnon Heads’
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2010/03/24/wapo-civility-knock-every-racist-and-homophobic-tooth-out-their-cro-magn#ixzz1AVLvMhZB

Union memo hints at gov.’s [Christie’s] death
http://dailycaller.com/2010/04/09/union-memo-hints-at-gov-s-death/

Nobel Peace Prize winner wants to kill the President [Bush]?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDrliITbed4

Sandra Bernhardt warning Sarah Palin not to come to NYC or she would “gang raped by my big black brothers” (video completely scrubbed from You Tube) http://media.newsbusters.org/stories/sandra-bernhard-.



Not all are firearms related, but all have references to violence.

[Anonymous]

Obama is more tied to terrorism than Palin. No sense in even discussing anything until that is acknowledged as the obvious fact it is by all parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obama is more tied to terrorism than Palin. No sense in even discussing anything until that is acknowledged as the obvious fact it is by all parties.

Because you are choosing a very narrow definition of terrorism, my friend. One that I categorically object to. So, no, that is not an obvious fact to all parties.

[Anonymous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GorgYRss-6o Democrats are insane.