Women staying in, staying home, downshifting this year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, I've noticed this too. We're all just really tired and not feeling like much is worth the effort or money. I don't know that this is depression but it's for sure something happening. This is a thing. I think the last 6 years has really taken a toll on everything in our lives. Made us reevaluate things and made us more wanting to be relaxed maybe at home, I don't know but this isn't just you OP. You're not alone in this at all.

The pandemic shutdown started on March 13. Here is the state of the country 6 years later.

Covid did a number. Sad but true. On everything. This wasn't a blip on the radar. I wish I could read the history books 100 years from now.

[Anonymous]

For me, covid revealed how ignorant some people are, and made it obvious who of my friends were selfish and stupid.
Now, it’s maga I fear. I made a friend at work and we made plans to do a class and grab coffee together. Then I overheard her saying something maga and I deleted her from my phone. Not safe and I don’t want to be associated with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For me, covid revealed how ignorant some people are, and made it obvious who of my friends were selfish and stupid.
Now, it’s maga I fear. I made a friend at work and we made plans to do a class and grab coffee together. Then I overheard her saying something maga and I deleted her from my phone. Not safe and I don’t want to be associated with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't eat out as much because the food is no good. I don't know what happened, but Covid started it and then the past year or two restaurants cut costs and everything is gross. Same with shopping. I don't really purchase anything anymore.

This is very true. Clothes are so bad right now.

I still see my friends a decent amount, although it was curtailed a bit over the winter.

I just opened an OLD box full of clothes I must have last worn 15 years ago. I was going to donate it all, then though wait, this random GAP sweater, Jcrew stuff, old blue jeans and leather Coach bag all look so much better than anything I can buy today. Maybe I should hang onto them.

I've done that recently, and good news, the 90s stuff is close to in style. The older jeans don't have spandex and hold their shape so much better. My daughter and friends were fighting over the stuff I didn't want.

[Anonymous]

This is a lot of my friends, too, but they were DOGEd and want to be leaning in more to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't eat out as much because the food is no good. I don't know what happened, but Covid started it and then the past year or two restaurants cut costs and everything is gross. Same with shopping. I don't really purchase anything anymore.

You’re going to the wrong restaurants sweetie.

Which ones do you recommend, darling?

I’d ask you which ones to avoid but it sounds like we’re dining in different tiers thank goodness.

Unfortunately after living in New York, DC restaurants leave much to be desired for me.

Np This is true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hit that wall in my early 40s, a couple of years after having DC #2. I became a SAHM, and my social life centered around the DCs rather than around adult gatherings requiring a babysitter. FWIW, life started getting fun and less exhausting again in my 50s. We’re back to eating out regularly, going to shows, and traveling impromptu.

This is why every middle aged mom in suburbia are miserable. You need your own life, friends and hobbies as opposed to your children running your social life. Of course you admit life started getting fun again in your 50s.

But not every middle aged mom in suburbia is miserable? Some are happy.

Also I'm a middle aged working mom in the city and I am often miserable. I have a job, hobbies, and friends and my one child does not "run" my social life.

I think sometimes it's just time of life, predisposition, etc. Midlife crisis is a stereotype for a reason. I've actually found myself digging in more on motherhood lately specifically to address the ennui I feel, because the time I spend with my DD feels more rewarding and fulfilling than a lot of the other stuff I'm doing. I'm so bored with work, exercise, getting drinks with friends, fashion, etc. A lot of my friends still really enjoy a lot of that stuff and when we hang out they want to talk about new pop music I can't get into, fashion and beauty trends I can't get excited about, and celeb gossip (that one still is mildly entertaining for me but also often makes me sad). My 10 year old actually talks about stuff I find more engaging at this point, and it's more interesting to hear about the perspective of someone learning about the world for the first time than someone at a similar age and place in life as I am.

I don't think it has anything to do with where I live or being a mom. I think it's just time of life, probably hormones related to menopause, maybe a predisposition for being an overthinking or getting bored with fun/shallow stuff.

[Anonymous]

My friends and I are mid-50s, we got out alot.
We are active/fit, gym etc

Looking forward to tonight. Was out last night too but still made my gym session this morning thank goodness.

Have a lovely weekend everyone, no matter what you are doing.

[Anonymous]

I'm older Gen X. I lost the ability to hang out with other women (mom and "girls" groups) probably 15-20 years ago. Women can be too catty/backstabbing and I'm too much of a truthteller -- not a great combo, in general. You stab someone in the back who is not here and I will tell you to your face how you're being an underhanded jerk. I can't deal with hypocrisy, dishonesty, setting people up to fail. So i bowed out on other women a long time ago. No regrets! I stayed at home with my husband and kids a long time before covid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like some of this is women being pushed out of their jobs by RTO. And that's awful. I wouldn't frame it as a willing "downshift."

I see a bit the opposite. We are leaning more heavily into in person socializing, some of it's hosting but also going out to meet up sometimes, or driving to visit family. It's comforting.

It is awful, but on the other hand, “careers” have been somewhat overhyped, and women’s work in the home has been so devalued that one feels worthless without a career. Which I think is bull$hit - what is really more important than caring for your family? It sucks because in order for that to work, the other spouse has to be earning a lot, at least around here. But after having done it all, and seeing my teens so much better off mentally with a parent who is able to be fully present in a way that few jobs offer enough flexibility for, I am starting to understand why so many teens are having mental health issues. Re: the teen-ternity posts from a couple of years ago.

It is grossly oversimplifying (and unfair primarily to working mothers) to blame the teen mental health crisis on both parents working jobs that make them less than "fully present."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm older Gen X. I lost the ability to hang out with other women (mom and "girls" groups) probably 15-20 years ago. Women can be too catty/backstabbing and I'm too much of a truthteller -- not a great combo, in general. You stab someone in the back who is not here and I will tell you to your face how you're being an underhanded jerk. I can't deal with hypocrisy, dishonesty, setting people up to fail. So i bowed out on other women a long time ago. No regrets! I stayed at home with my husband and kids a long time before covid.

People are going to attack you for this, but it resonates. I am young Gen X and in about my mid-30s, I realized I just couldn't do a lot of female friendships. Specifically this pattern where people kind of perform close, supportive friendships (especially on social media) but then gossip and criticize and compete with one another under that surface (while never acknowledging that's what they are doing). I just started dropping out of friendships with this dynamic, which mean no more "friend groups" because that's where this behavior thrives -- it's lots of group gatherings where everyone acts very lovey and supportive, and then lots of in-between conversations that tend towards gossip and judgment of others in the group.

I'm not at "no friends" but clearing out all those friendships opened up a lot of space. The friendships I do have are more chill and don't ask as much of me -- most of my friends I text with regularly but not every day, and then we get together in person once every few months. I spend way more time with my spouse and kid and like it that way -- those relationships feel the deepest and most meaningful in my life, and I think of friendships as secondary, support relationships to those primary relationships. I also just like spending time along or with my pet. I go to movies alone sometimes and it's so nice. Even when I'm socializing, I like doing things that can be quieter or not so much talk talk talk -- going to a museum or a play together, going to a sporting event. As I get older, relationships are more about companionship and connection, just witnessing each other's lives. I just want gentleness and support. Conflict, competition, any intractable disagreement... it makes me too tired and is not worth the effort of getting together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like some of this is women being pushed out of their jobs by RTO. And that's awful. I wouldn't frame it as a willing "downshift."

I see a bit the opposite. We are leaning more heavily into in person socializing, some of it's hosting but also going out to meet up sometimes, or driving to visit family. It's comforting.

It is awful, but on the other hand, “careers” have been somewhat overhyped, and women’s work in the home has been so devalued that one feels worthless without a career. Which I think is bull$hit - what is really more important than caring for your family? It sucks because in order for that to work, the other spouse has to be earning a lot, at least around here. But after having done it all, and seeing my teens so much better off mentally with a parent who is able to be fully present in a way that few jobs offer enough flexibility for, I am starting to understand why so many teens are having mental health issues. Re: the teen-ternity posts from a couple of years ago.

It is grossly oversimplifying (and unfair primarily to working mothers) to blame the teen mental health crisis on both parents working jobs that make them less than "fully present."

While I agree we should definitely not just be blaming working moms, I think it's worth talking about whether the current model of two professional working parents and kids in childcare and activities most of the day every day, is working for everyone.

Questioning that model does NOT have to mean advocating for a system where women don't work or are discouraged from working. Most men I know would love to scale back working and spend more time with their kids or doing things around their home. A system where the adults in a household must both be ended in for-pay work 40 (or more) hours a week in order to even afford to have kids, and then much the traditional family system is outsourced to paid providers (many of whom are also parents, whose parenting is then also outsourced elsewhere) has some deep flaws.

I'd really like to normalize: parental leaves and sabatticals for both parents, not just with infants but at various points in a child's development; shorter work and school/activity days that leave more time for family connection in the evening; and part time work at various points for both parents. And all of this would necessitate rethinking the family economic model, and the American imperative toward maximal consumption (largest house you can buy, multiple cars, every modern convenience, outsourcing household tasks, big expensive vacations.

I have no interest in being a SAHM, but I don't particularly like having a full-time job in a dual income family where we can either afford to outsource most childcare and household upkeep or we flounder because we don't have the bandwidth to do that any our jobs. It's not better, it's probably worse, and we should be able to come up with a better solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like some of this is women being pushed out of their jobs by RTO. And that's awful. I wouldn't frame it as a willing "downshift."

I see a bit the opposite. We are leaning more heavily into in person socializing, some of it's hosting but also going out to meet up sometimes, or driving to visit family. It's comforting.

It is awful, but on the other hand, “careers” have been somewhat overhyped, and women’s work in the home has been so devalued that one feels worthless without a career. Which I think is bull$hit - what is really more important than caring for your family? It sucks because in order for that to work, the other spouse has to be earning a lot, at least around here. But after having done it all, and seeing my teens so much better off mentally with a parent who is able to be fully present in a way that few jobs offer enough flexibility for, I am starting to understand why so many teens are having mental health issues. Re: the teen-ternity posts from a couple of years ago.

It is grossly oversimplifying (and unfair primarily to working mothers) to blame the teen mental health crisis on both parents working jobs that make them less than "fully present."

While I agree we should definitely not just be blaming working moms, I think it's worth talking about whether the current model of two professional working parents and kids in childcare and activities most of the day every day, is working for everyone.

Questioning that model does NOT have to mean advocating for a system where women don't work or are discouraged from working. Most men I know would love to scale back working and spend more time with their kids or doing things around their home. A system where the adults in a household must both be ended in for-pay work 40 (or more) hours a week in order to even afford to have kids, and then much the traditional family system is outsourced to paid providers (many of whom are also parents, whose parenting is then also outsourced elsewhere) has some deep flaws.

I'd really like to normalize: parental leaves and sabatticals for both parents, not just with infants but at various points in a child's development; shorter work and school/activity days that leave more time for family connection in the evening; and part time work at various points for both parents. And all of this would necessitate rethinking the family economic model, and the American imperative toward maximal consumption (largest house you can buy, multiple cars, every modern convenience, outsourcing household tasks, big expensive vacations.

I have no interest in being a SAHM, but I don't particularly like having a full-time job in a dual income family where we can either afford to outsource most childcare and household upkeep or we flounder because we don't have the bandwidth to do that any our jobs. It's not better, it's probably worse, and we should be able to come up with a better solution.

My Northern European friends are living your dream model of part time work, lots of vacation and co-parenting. Guess what? They are miserable! It essentially means both spouses have mediocre jobs and they don’t make enough money to outsource. The women are all pushed into PT work because their labor laws require the option and the burden is on women. This just means an even more aggressive form of mommy tracking. However with their high taxes and strict labor laws, their spouse can’t make enough money to support the family.

Really the answer is for women who care about equality to not have children. This is happening.

My happiest friends are SAHMs in more conservative circles with a high earning spouse. Most miserable are co-parents in very progressive circles. Of course this is anecdotal.

[Anonymous]

I am exhausted. The years since pandemic and with the constant state of stress makes me want to do less.

I just don't have the mental capacity for social media and doomscrolling. I feel at times I am barely staying afloat with work, dealing with a newly diagnosed health issue, and my spouse's issues. I want to retreat and do things that are not so taxing. I enjoy my friendships but I can't do everything anymore like I used to and be out all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All of you still should be connecting with friends. Make a phone date. Settle into your favorite chair in your PJs. 45min of conversation with a friend is wonderful. Every few months, at least. If not more often. Stay connected.

I live in NYC and I had that. It was a lot harder to make time for in person connections then. They all tended to be tied around school stuff at that time.