NJ mayor who is running for Congress, opposed hiring Jews

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

DP. Do you actually have trouble understanding this? A government (or any employer) cannot refuse to hire someone due to their religion. Even if they believe the religion is wrong.

Right. A government cannot discriminate based on gender or religion. Which brings us back to pools and buses. A private employer also cannot discriminate which brings us back to the business practices of the Hasidic community.

You are claiming that their discrimination is good but discriminating against them is bad.

Do you actually think that a belief that this Hasidic community discriminates in its business practices legally justifies the government agency to refuse to hire Hasidic individuals? Your reasoning seems to be: “I can refuse to hire you due to a negative belief I have about your community.” That’s a description of illegal discrimination in hiring, not a justification of it. There is no exemption from anti-discrimination law based on disliking the group. Or even actual wrongdoing by others in the group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

Government backed and funded segregation is illegal. It doesn't matter what a plurality thinks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

DP. Do you actually have trouble understanding this? A government (or any employer) cannot refuse to hire someone due to their religion. Even if they believe the religion is wrong.

Right. A government cannot discriminate based on gender or religion. Which brings us back to pools and buses. A private employer also cannot discriminate which brings us back to the business practices of the Hasidic community.

You are claiming that their discrimination is good but discriminating against them is bad.

Do you actually think that a belief that this Hasidic community discriminates in its business practices legally justifies the government agency to refuse to hire Hasidic individuals? Your reasoning seems to be: “I can refuse to hire you due to a negative belief I have about your community.” That’s a description of illegal discrimination in hiring, not a justification of it. There is no exemption from anti-discrimination law based on disliking the group. Or even actual wrongdoing by others in the group.

It's not a belief it's a truth. But no, I don't think that fact legally justifies an offhand comment by a public official. But it does mean that I don't think it's a massive outrage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

So your position is that discrimination by government entities based on sex is okay but discrimination by government entities based on religion is not okay. Got it.

You can take that position if you want, but it makes you a rank hypocrite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

DP. Do you actually have trouble understanding this? A government (or any employer) cannot refuse to hire someone due to their religion. Even if they believe the religion is wrong.

Right. A government cannot discriminate based on gender or religion. Which brings us back to pools and buses. A private employer also cannot discriminate which brings us back to the business practices of the Hasidic community.

You are claiming that their discrimination is good but discriminating against them is bad.

Do you actually think that a belief that this Hasidic community discriminates in its business practices legally justifies the government agency to refuse to hire Hasidic individuals? Your reasoning seems to be: “I can refuse to hire you due to a negative belief I have about your community.” That’s a description of illegal discrimination in hiring, not a justification of it. There is no exemption from anti-discrimination law based on disliking the group. Or even actual wrongdoing by others in the group.

It's not a belief it's a truth. But no, I don't think that fact legally justifies an offhand comment by a public official. But it does mean that I don't think it's a massive outrage.

You don’t believe it’s an outrage because you think antisemitism is not a big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

So your position is that discrimination by government entities based on sex is okay but discrimination by government entities based on religion is not okay. Got it.

You can take that position if you want, but it makes you a rank hypocrite.

Sex segregation is not “discrimination” if done fairly. We have sex segregated public schools, sex segregated bathroom, etc. Obviously there are lines where it becomes unfair or unreasonable but there is already a well developed body of law to assess that.

[Anonymous]

Once again the left/liberal inability to understand that laws need to be applied equally rears its head.

Newsflash: if it’s OK for a black mayor to say he won’t hire the “wrong kind” of Jews, it’s on for a Jewish mayor to say he won’t hire the “wrong kind” of black people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

DP. Do you actually have trouble understanding this? A government (or any employer) cannot refuse to hire someone due to their religion. Even if they believe the religion is wrong.

Right. A government cannot discriminate based on gender or religion. Which brings us back to pools and buses. A private employer also cannot discriminate which brings us back to the business practices of the Hasidic community.

You are claiming that their discrimination is good but discriminating against them is bad.

Do you actually think that a belief that this Hasidic community discriminates in its business practices legally justifies the government agency to refuse to hire Hasidic individuals? Your reasoning seems to be: “I can refuse to hire you due to a negative belief I have about your community.” That’s a description of illegal discrimination in hiring, not a justification of it. There is no exemption from anti-discrimination law based on disliking the group. Or even actual wrongdoing by others in the group.

It's not a belief it's a truth. But no, I don't think that fact legally justifies an offhand comment by a public official. But it does mean that I don't think it's a massive outrage.

You don’t believe it’s an outrage because you think antisemitism is not a big deal.

No. I think antisemitism is a big deal. I just also think that what the Hasidic community is doing is bad and indefensible. That the issues with them and the surrounding community derive from their own actions and not an ingrained bias. They are not victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

DP. Do you actually have trouble understanding this? A government (or any employer) cannot refuse to hire someone due to their religion. Even if they believe the religion is wrong.

Right. A government cannot discriminate based on gender or religion. Which brings us back to pools and buses. A private employer also cannot discriminate which brings us back to the business practices of the Hasidic community.

You are claiming that their discrimination is good but discriminating against them is bad.

Do you actually think that a belief that this Hasidic community discriminates in its business practices legally justifies the government agency to refuse to hire Hasidic individuals? Your reasoning seems to be: “I can refuse to hire you due to a negative belief I have about your community.” That’s a description of illegal discrimination in hiring, not a justification of it. There is no exemption from anti-discrimination law based on disliking the group. Or even actual wrongdoing by others in the group.

It's not a belief it's a truth. But no, I don't think that fact legally justifies an offhand comment by a public official. But it does mean that I don't think it's a massive outrage.

You don’t believe it’s an outrage because you think antisemitism is not a big deal.

No. I think antisemitism is a big deal. I just also think that what the Hasidic community is doing is bad and indefensible. That the issues with them and the surrounding community derive from their own actions and not an ingrained bias. They are not victims.

So because you think the “Hasidic community” is “bad and indefensible” it’s OK to say that no Hasidic individual can be hired? What exactly did they do that’s so “indefensible” in Linden, NJ anyway, to merit them being an exception to anti-discrimination law?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the context is what has happened in other school districts like in rockland county. the jews all vote en bloc, they put a bunch of jewish people on the school board and completely defund the public schools and funnel money to private schools (their kids go to private religious school). Its absolutely horrifying and i don't blame this guy for not wanting it in his town.

If they are engaged in fraud that can be addressed through the proper channels. The rest is just pure anti-semitism.

Thats the problem. Its not fraud and its not illegal. They legally have the right to vote who they want on the school board, and the school board has the right to determine funding. What they are doing however is clearly unethical. I'm assuming this mayor doesn't want to end up with a bunch of hasidics on the school board doing the same thing in his town. Its not that he hates jewish people - he has seen what happens in other areas.

If you cannot see that that is blatantly antisemitic and illegal, not sure what to tell you. The fact that you believe the discrimination is justified based in your negative viewpoint of “a bunch of hasidics” makes it worse, not better.

NP. What happened to the separation of church and state. Frankly, if the courts are allowing religion to dictate public policy, don't be surprised when the religion you don't agree with comes and take over the politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the context is what has happened in other school districts like in rockland county. the jews all vote en bloc, they put a bunch of jewish people on the school board and completely defund the public schools and funnel money to private schools (their kids go to private religious school). Its absolutely horrifying and i don't blame this guy for not wanting it in his town.

If they are engaged in fraud that can be addressed through the proper channels. The rest is just pure anti-semitism.

Thats the problem. Its not fraud and its not illegal. They legally have the right to vote who they want on the school board, and the school board has the right to determine funding. What they are doing however is clearly unethical. I'm assuming this mayor doesn't want to end up with a bunch of hasidics on the school board doing the same thing in his town. Its not that he hates jewish people - he has seen what happens in other areas.

If you cannot see that that is blatantly antisemitic and illegal, not sure what to tell you. The fact that you believe the discrimination is justified based in your negative viewpoint of “a bunch of hasidics” makes it worse, not better.

NP. What happened to the separation of church and state. Frankly, if the courts are allowing religion to dictate public policy, don't be surprised when the religion you don't agree with comes and take over the politics.

Is it separation of church and state for the Mayor to say he won’t hire Jewish people?

And again, religious accomodations are a longstanding principle of civil rights law. They were not invented for Hasidic jews.