NJ mayor who is running for Congress, opposed hiring Jews

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

+1. Many of these PPs have no problem screaming down Westboro Baptist Church, Mormon groups, Branch Davidians, or similarly extremist lunatics, but when it comes to the extremist Hasidim, they are appalled.
As a private employer, I would never hire any of the above. Religious extremism in all of its forms is detrimental to a democratic, educated society. And the Hasidim have proved again and again that they are intent on destroying it.

Not that I agree, but if you listen to the podcast, the Hasidics wanted more SPED $ for their kids given the property taxes they were paying for years. The law says if those kids are getting the services, they needed to be in a public setting. They wanted to keep their kids in private so set about changing the law. Now that their kids were the majority of children in their district, they ran and got elected, found a lawyer who found a loophole.

How long will we be able the kingdom the way it is? In my community, for the kids who are now the majority, soccer is preferred to American football if they play a sport at all. Many of the girls don't play sports. How long before people decide they don't want the costs of sports their kids don't like or even play? Who is going to pay for the upkeep of football stadiums, uniforms &coaches, etc? They may prefer to spend the money on other things that benefit them. The 15-20% who enjoy things will eventually see them get dropped from budgets.

Yes, I know exactly what they did. And then they proceeded to effectively shut down the schools so that local kids in public schools could not even take enough core classes to graduate in 4 years. They removed the arts, athletics, electives, and fired teachers. It was completely and undeniably disgusting. I don't know how someone could support or even argue the benefits of shutting down a public school for local kids just becuase some religious fanatics wanted to take their tax money back. Too bad. Paying public school taxes is part of living in our civil society. If they don't like it, they can remove themselves to some far off compound. They offer zero benefits to society at large.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the people her who have such disdain for the Hasidic Jews feel the same way about the Amish. The Amish send their kids to religious private school and they only get schooled up until 8th grade. The state allows this because they consider working vocational training. If you were to give an Amish child a standardized test they’d probably fail it and their first language is also not English. In places with large Amish populations the school district suffers a lack of sufficient public school funding because they don’t have enough students attending to reasonably support the school.

The Amish aren’t taking control of local government.

Generally the religious or ethnic makeup of a local populace is what’s reflected in the local government. You say this as if it’s some grand conspiracy. Rockland County has the largest Jewish population in the US. Of course the local government would have Jews as members.

And generally the point of the school board is to look out for the best interests of students with regards to public funds. the difference is these people use their big voting block to get on the school board and work against non jewish students by defunding and closing schools. i don’t see any other community doing this. not amish, not fundamental christian, not muslims. and to get back to the point of the thread, i would bet money this mayor doesn’t just hate jewish people, rather he doesn’t want soemthing like that to happen in his town

+1 his comments were not about all Jewish people, they were about Hasidim.

For the millionth time, state & federal civil rights law do not allow you to bar people from public employment or home ownership because you dislike or even fear their religious group.

But they can and should be rightly banned when they engage in knowingly illegal activity with intent to harm the community. Why is this so difficult for you to understand and accept? Merely because they are Jewish they are allowed to harm the local population?

First of all nothing illegal happened. Second of all are you saying an entire group should be banned? Because that’s essentially what this mayor wants.

And he would be the first mayor in NJ to finally step in and do something about it. Good for him. This is a great way to save the local community from having their public funds ravaged.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

+1. Many of these PPs have no problem screaming down Westboro Baptist Church, Mormon groups, Branch Davidians, or similarly extremist lunatics, but when it comes to the extremist Hasidim, they are appalled.
As a private employer, I would never hire any of the above. Religious extremism in all of its forms is detrimental to a democratic, educated society. And the Hasidim have proved again and again that they are intent on destroying it.

Not that I agree, but if you listen to the podcast, the Hasidics wanted more SPED $ for their kids given the property taxes they were paying for years. The law says if those kids are getting the services, they needed to be in a public setting. They wanted to keep their kids in private so set about changing the law. Now that their kids were the majority of children in their district, they ran and got elected, found a lawyer who found a loophole.

How long will we be able the kingdom the way it is? In my community, for the kids who are now the majority, soccer is preferred to American football if they play a sport at all. Many of the girls don't play sports. How long before people decide they don't want the costs of sports their kids don't like or even play? Who is going to pay for the upkeep of football stadiums, uniforms &coaches, etc? They may prefer to spend the money on other things that benefit them. The 15-20% who enjoy things will eventually see them get dropped from budgets.

Yes, I know exactly what they did. And then they proceeded to effectively shut down the schools so that local kids in public schools could not even take enough core classes to graduate in 4 years. They removed the arts, athletics, electives, and fired teachers. It was completely and undeniably disgusting. I don't know how someone could support or even argue the benefits of shutting down a public school for local kids just becuase some religious fanatics wanted to take their tax money back. Too bad. Paying public school taxes is part of living in our civil society. If they don't like it, they can remove themselves to some far off compound. They offer zero benefits to society at large.

That’s one school district in an entirely different state, run by entirely different people. Not to mention that the state should take more responsibility if it disapproves of local governance.

This thread is about attempts to bar individuals of a certain group from employment & housing based on beliefs that their group is a threat. That’s literally the definition of invidious discrimination and it is wholly illegal. Linden is going to get their pants sued off. And the Linden school district has horrendous test scores now, so perhaps Mr Mayor ought not to throw stones.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the people her who have such disdain for the Hasidic Jews feel the same way about the Amish. The Amish send their kids to religious private school and they only get schooled up until 8th grade. The state allows this because they consider working vocational training. If you were to give an Amish child a standardized test they’d probably fail it and their first language is also not English. In places with large Amish populations the school district suffers a lack of sufficient public school funding because they don’t have enough students attending to reasonably support the school.

The Amish aren’t taking control of local government.

Generally the religious or ethnic makeup of a local populace is what’s reflected in the local government. You say this as if it’s some grand conspiracy. Rockland County has the largest Jewish population in the US. Of course the local government would have Jews as members.

And generally the point of the school board is to look out for the best interests of students with regards to public funds. the difference is these people use their big voting block to get on the school board and work against non jewish students by defunding and closing schools. i don’t see any other community doing this. not amish, not fundamental christian, not muslims. and to get back to the point of the thread, i would bet money this mayor doesn’t just hate jewish people, rather he doesn’t want soemthing like that to happen in his town

+1 his comments were not about all Jewish people, they were about Hasidim.

For the millionth time, state & federal civil rights law do not allow you to bar people from public employment or home ownership because you dislike or even fear their religious group.

But they can and should be rightly banned when they engage in knowingly illegal activity with intent to harm the community. Why is this so difficult for you to understand and accept? Merely because they are Jewish they are allowed to harm the local population?

First of all nothing illegal happened. Second of all are you saying an entire group should be banned? Because that’s essentially what this mayor wants.

And he would be the first mayor in NJ to finally step in and do something about it. Good for him. This is a great way to save the local community from having their public funds ravaged.

The Jewish people live there. They are the “local community.” and the mayor and school district are doing terribly as is - hard to picture them doing worse.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

This is about a public official openly saying he would refuse to hire someone due to their religion. That’s wrong if the person is Hasidic, Mormon, or anything else. Equating Hasids with the Taliban is something else …

Once again: the strength of your dislike of a religion does NOT mean you get to discriminate against those individuals in employment. Taking action against someone because you dislike their religion is literally the definition of discrimination.

I have no qualms about saying I dislike and have a bias against religious fundamentalists of all varieties. This is not about Judaism. It is about a bastardized offshoot.

Complaining about FLDS is not anti-Mormon. Complaining about the Westboro Baptist Church is not anti-Christian. Complaining about the Taliban is not anti-Muslim. Complaining about Bodu Bala Sena is not anti-Buddhist. Complaining about the RSS is not anti-Hindu. Complaining about the ultra-Orthodox is not anti-Jewish.

Actually, the majority of Jews, including myself, are the bastardized offshoots.

You are mistaken and should have more self-respect. The Haredi movement is an early 20th Century creation.

false, the roots go back much further: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasidic_Judaism

The modern development in Israel, US and UK began in the 20th century for obvious reasons.

The 18th Century, lol.

The modern development had to do with general late 19th Century/early 20th Century industrial era enlightenment social trends. It is nothing more than a reactionary retrograde movement of the same sort that has happened to all religions. Comparing it to ISIS is a bridge too far but the underlying sentiment of reclaiming a supposedely purer supposedly historical theology is the same. It is a rejection of secular modernity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

+1. Many of these PPs have no problem screaming down Westboro Baptist Church, Mormon groups, Branch Davidians, or similarly extremist lunatics, but when it comes to the extremist Hasidim, they are appalled.
As a private employer, I would never hire any of the above. Religious extremism in all of its forms is detrimental to a democratic, educated society. And the Hasidim have proved again and again that they are intent on destroying it.

Not that I agree, but if you listen to the podcast, the Hasidics wanted more SPED $ for their kids given the property taxes they were paying for years. The law says if those kids are getting the services, they needed to be in a public setting. They wanted to keep their kids in private so set about changing the law. Now that their kids were the majority of children in their district, they ran and got elected, found a lawyer who found a loophole.

How long will we be able the kingdom the way it is? In my community, for the kids who are now the majority, soccer is preferred to American football if they play a sport at all. Many of the girls don't play sports. How long before people decide they don't want the costs of sports their kids don't like or even play? Who is going to pay for the upkeep of football stadiums, uniforms &coaches, etc? They may prefer to spend the money on other things that benefit them. The 15-20% who enjoy things will eventually see them get dropped from budgets.

Yes, I know exactly what they did. And then they proceeded to effectively shut down the schools so that local kids in public schools could not even take enough core classes to graduate in 4 years. They removed the arts, athletics, electives, and fired teachers. It was completely and undeniably disgusting. I don't know how someone could support or even argue the benefits of shutting down a public school for local kids just becuase some religious fanatics wanted to take their tax money back. Too bad. Paying public school taxes is part of living in our civil society. If they don't like it, they can remove themselves to some far off compound. They offer zero benefits to society at large.

That’s one school district in an entirely different state, run by entirely different people. Not to mention that the state should take more responsibility if it disapproves of local governance.

This thread is about attempts to bar individuals of a certain group from employment & housing based on beliefs that their group is a threat. That’s literally the definition of invidious discrimination and it is wholly illegal. Linden is going to get their pants sued off. And the Linden school district has horrendous test scores now, so perhaps Mr Mayor ought not to throw stones.

And that sort of invidious discrimination is practiced by many, if not most, of the community.

Obviously a public official should have known better but the irony is that that was what he was responding to.

[Anonymous]

Stop comparing Hasidim to the Taliban. They might look funny and have offensive views, but they're not killing anybody.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

+1. Many of these PPs have no problem screaming down Westboro Baptist Church, Mormon groups, Branch Davidians, or similarly extremist lunatics, but when it comes to the extremist Hasidim, they are appalled.
As a private employer, I would never hire any of the above. Religious extremism in all of its forms is detrimental to a democratic, educated society. And the Hasidim have proved again and again that they are intent on destroying it.

Not that I agree, but if you listen to the podcast, the Hasidics wanted more SPED $ for their kids given the property taxes they were paying for years. The law says if those kids are getting the services, they needed to be in a public setting. They wanted to keep their kids in private so set about changing the law. Now that their kids were the majority of children in their district, they ran and got elected, found a lawyer who found a loophole.

How long will we be able the kingdom the way it is? In my community, for the kids who are now the majority, soccer is preferred to American football if they play a sport at all. Many of the girls don't play sports. How long before people decide they don't want the costs of sports their kids don't like or even play? Who is going to pay for the upkeep of football stadiums, uniforms &coaches, etc? They may prefer to spend the money on other things that benefit them. The 15-20% who enjoy things will eventually see them get dropped from budgets.

Yes, I know exactly what they did. And then they proceeded to effectively shut down the schools so that local kids in public schools could not even take enough core classes to graduate in 4 years. They removed the arts, athletics, electives, and fired teachers. It was completely and undeniably disgusting. I don't know how someone could support or even argue the benefits of shutting down a public school for local kids just becuase some religious fanatics wanted to take their tax money back. Too bad. Paying public school taxes is part of living in our civil society. If they don't like it, they can remove themselves to some far off compound. They offer zero benefits to society at large.

That’s one school district in an entirely different state, run by entirely different people. Not to mention that the state should take more responsibility if it disapproves of local governance.

This thread is about attempts to bar individuals of a certain group from employment & housing based on beliefs that their group is a threat. That’s literally the definition of invidious discrimination and it is wholly illegal. Linden is going to get their pants sued off. And the Linden school district has horrendous test scores now, so perhaps Mr Mayor ought not to throw stones.

And that sort of invidious discrimination is practiced by many, if not most, of the community.

Obviously a public official should have known better but the irony is that that was what he was responding to.

A religious community deciding on its own rules is not the same thing as a government official unlawfully discriminating. This is all basic stuff about our country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

+1. Many of these PPs have no problem screaming down Westboro Baptist Church, Mormon groups, Branch Davidians, or similarly extremist lunatics, but when it comes to the extremist Hasidim, they are appalled.
As a private employer, I would never hire any of the above. Religious extremism in all of its forms is detrimental to a democratic, educated society. And the Hasidim have proved again and again that they are intent on destroying it.

Not that I agree, but if you listen to the podcast, the Hasidics wanted more SPED $ for their kids given the property taxes they were paying for years. The law says if those kids are getting the services, they needed to be in a public setting. They wanted to keep their kids in private so set about changing the law. Now that their kids were the majority of children in their district, they ran and got elected, found a lawyer who found a loophole.

How long will we be able the kingdom the way it is? In my community, for the kids who are now the majority, soccer is preferred to American football if they play a sport at all. Many of the girls don't play sports. How long before people decide they don't want the costs of sports their kids don't like or even play? Who is going to pay for the upkeep of football stadiums, uniforms &coaches, etc? They may prefer to spend the money on other things that benefit them. The 15-20% who enjoy things will eventually see them get dropped from budgets.

Yes, I know exactly what they did. And then they proceeded to effectively shut down the schools so that local kids in public schools could not even take enough core classes to graduate in 4 years. They removed the arts, athletics, electives, and fired teachers. It was completely and undeniably disgusting. I don't know how someone could support or even argue the benefits of shutting down a public school for local kids just becuase some religious fanatics wanted to take their tax money back. Too bad. Paying public school taxes is part of living in our civil society. If they don't like it, they can remove themselves to some far off compound. They offer zero benefits to society at large.

The actions of a small minority of Jews in a completely separate City and State - actions supported by their constituents - are not justification for anti-Jewish discrimination.

This is like saying we should be able to discriminate against all Christians because some Christians want to implement school vouchers in place to funnel public funds to Catholic schools, it is non-sensical and only taken seriously because of the underlying anti-Semitism that has became increasingly obvious since 10/7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

+1. Many of these PPs have no problem screaming down Westboro Baptist Church, Mormon groups, Branch Davidians, or similarly extremist lunatics, but when it comes to the extremist Hasidim, they are appalled.
As a private employer, I would never hire any of the above. Religious extremism in all of its forms is detrimental to a democratic, educated society. And the Hasidim have proved again and again that they are intent on destroying it.

Not that I agree, but if you listen to the podcast, the Hasidics wanted more SPED $ for their kids given the property taxes they were paying for years. The law says if those kids are getting the services, they needed to be in a public setting. They wanted to keep their kids in private so set about changing the law. Now that their kids were the majority of children in their district, they ran and got elected, found a lawyer who found a loophole.

How long will we be able the kingdom the way it is? In my community, for the kids who are now the majority, soccer is preferred to American football if they play a sport at all. Many of the girls don't play sports. How long before people decide they don't want the costs of sports their kids don't like or even play? Who is going to pay for the upkeep of football stadiums, uniforms &coaches, etc? They may prefer to spend the money on other things that benefit them. The 15-20% who enjoy things will eventually see them get dropped from budgets.

Yes, I know exactly what they did. And then they proceeded to effectively shut down the schools so that local kids in public schools could not even take enough core classes to graduate in 4 years. They removed the arts, athletics, electives, and fired teachers. It was completely and undeniably disgusting. I don't know how someone could support or even argue the benefits of shutting down a public school for local kids just becuase some religious fanatics wanted to take their tax money back. Too bad. Paying public school taxes is part of living in our civil society. If they don't like it, they can remove themselves to some far off compound. They offer zero benefits to society at large.

That’s one school district in an entirely different state, run by entirely different people. Not to mention that the state should take more responsibility if it disapproves of local governance.

This thread is about attempts to bar individuals of a certain group from employment & housing based on beliefs that their group is a threat. That’s literally the definition of invidious discrimination and it is wholly illegal. Linden is going to get their pants sued off. And the Linden school district has horrendous test scores now, so perhaps Mr Mayor ought not to throw stones.

And that sort of invidious discrimination is practiced by many, if not most, of the community.

Obviously a public official should have known better but the irony is that that was what he was responding to.

A religious community deciding on its own rules is not the same thing as a government official unlawfully discriminating. This is all basic stuff about our country.

Individual members of that community committing unlawful and invidious religious discrimination is also illegal and should not be handwaved away or excused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

+1. Many of these PPs have no problem screaming down Westboro Baptist Church, Mormon groups, Branch Davidians, or similarly extremist lunatics, but when it comes to the extremist Hasidim, they are appalled.
As a private employer, I would never hire any of the above. Religious extremism in all of its forms is detrimental to a democratic, educated society. And the Hasidim have proved again and again that they are intent on destroying it.

Not that I agree, but if you listen to the podcast, the Hasidics wanted more SPED $ for their kids given the property taxes they were paying for years. The law says if those kids are getting the services, they needed to be in a public setting. They wanted to keep their kids in private so set about changing the law. Now that their kids were the majority of children in their district, they ran and got elected, found a lawyer who found a loophole.

How long will we be able the kingdom the way it is? In my community, for the kids who are now the majority, soccer is preferred to American football if they play a sport at all. Many of the girls don't play sports. How long before people decide they don't want the costs of sports their kids don't like or even play? Who is going to pay for the upkeep of football stadiums, uniforms &coaches, etc? They may prefer to spend the money on other things that benefit them. The 15-20% who enjoy things will eventually see them get dropped from budgets.

Yes, I know exactly what they did. And then they proceeded to effectively shut down the schools so that local kids in public schools could not even take enough core classes to graduate in 4 years. They removed the arts, athletics, electives, and fired teachers. It was completely and undeniably disgusting. I don't know how someone could support or even argue the benefits of shutting down a public school for local kids just becuase some religious fanatics wanted to take their tax money back. Too bad. Paying public school taxes is part of living in our civil society. If they don't like it, they can remove themselves to some far off compound. They offer zero benefits to society at large.

That’s one school district in an entirely different state, run by entirely different people. Not to mention that the state should take more responsibility if it disapproves of local governance.

This thread is about attempts to bar individuals of a certain group from employment & housing based on beliefs that their group is a threat. That’s literally the definition of invidious discrimination and it is wholly illegal. Linden is going to get their pants sued off. And the Linden school district has horrendous test scores now, so perhaps Mr Mayor ought not to throw stones.

And that sort of invidious discrimination is practiced by many, if not most, of the community.

Obviously a public official should have known better but the irony is that that was what he was responding to.

A religious community deciding on its own rules is not the same thing as a government official unlawfully discriminating. This is all basic stuff about our country.

It is when the group captures local government and uses it as a vehicle to further its own goals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

+1. Many of these PPs have no problem screaming down Westboro Baptist Church, Mormon groups, Branch Davidians, or similarly extremist lunatics, but when it comes to the extremist Hasidim, they are appalled.
As a private employer, I would never hire any of the above. Religious extremism in all of its forms is detrimental to a democratic, educated society. And the Hasidim have proved again and again that they are intent on destroying it.

Not that I agree, but if you listen to the podcast, the Hasidics wanted more SPED $ for their kids given the property taxes they were paying for years. The law says if those kids are getting the services, they needed to be in a public setting. They wanted to keep their kids in private so set about changing the law. Now that their kids were the majority of children in their district, they ran and got elected, found a lawyer who found a loophole.

How long will we be able the kingdom the way it is? In my community, for the kids who are now the majority, soccer is preferred to American football if they play a sport at all. Many of the girls don't play sports. How long before people decide they don't want the costs of sports their kids don't like or even play? Who is going to pay for the upkeep of football stadiums, uniforms &coaches, etc? They may prefer to spend the money on other things that benefit them. The 15-20% who enjoy things will eventually see them get dropped from budgets.

Yes, I know exactly what they did. And then they proceeded to effectively shut down the schools so that local kids in public schools could not even take enough core classes to graduate in 4 years. They removed the arts, athletics, electives, and fired teachers. It was completely and undeniably disgusting. I don't know how someone could support or even argue the benefits of shutting down a public school for local kids just becuase some religious fanatics wanted to take their tax money back. Too bad. Paying public school taxes is part of living in our civil society. If they don't like it, they can remove themselves to some far off compound. They offer zero benefits to society at large.

That’s one school district in an entirely different state, run by entirely different people. Not to mention that the state should take more responsibility if it disapproves of local governance.

This thread is about attempts to bar individuals of a certain group from employment & housing based on beliefs that their group is a threat. That’s literally the definition of invidious discrimination and it is wholly illegal. Linden is going to get their pants sued off. And the Linden school district has horrendous test scores now, so perhaps Mr Mayor ought not to throw stones.

And that sort of invidious discrimination is practiced by many, if not most, of the community.

Obviously a public official should have known better but the irony is that that was what he was responding to.

A religious community deciding on its own rules is not the same thing as a government official unlawfully discriminating. This is all basic stuff about our country.

Individual members of that community committing unlawful and invidious religious discrimination is also illegal and should not be handwaved away or excused.

Are you saying they should go to jail for having rules about their religion? What? Or is there something more specific here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

+1. Many of these PPs have no problem screaming down Westboro Baptist Church, Mormon groups, Branch Davidians, or similarly extremist lunatics, but when it comes to the extremist Hasidim, they are appalled.
As a private employer, I would never hire any of the above. Religious extremism in all of its forms is detrimental to a democratic, educated society. And the Hasidim have proved again and again that they are intent on destroying it.

Not that I agree, but if you listen to the podcast, the Hasidics wanted more SPED $ for their kids given the property taxes they were paying for years. The law says if those kids are getting the services, they needed to be in a public setting. They wanted to keep their kids in private so set about changing the law. Now that their kids were the majority of children in their district, they ran and got elected, found a lawyer who found a loophole.

How long will we be able the kingdom the way it is? In my community, for the kids who are now the majority, soccer is preferred to American football if they play a sport at all. Many of the girls don't play sports. How long before people decide they don't want the costs of sports their kids don't like or even play? Who is going to pay for the upkeep of football stadiums, uniforms &coaches, etc? They may prefer to spend the money on other things that benefit them. The 15-20% who enjoy things will eventually see them get dropped from budgets.

Yes, I know exactly what they did. And then they proceeded to effectively shut down the schools so that local kids in public schools could not even take enough core classes to graduate in 4 years. They removed the arts, athletics, electives, and fired teachers. It was completely and undeniably disgusting. I don't know how someone could support or even argue the benefits of shutting down a public school for local kids just becuase some religious fanatics wanted to take their tax money back. Too bad. Paying public school taxes is part of living in our civil society. If they don't like it, they can remove themselves to some far off compound. They offer zero benefits to society at large.

That’s one school district in an entirely different state, run by entirely different people. Not to mention that the state should take more responsibility if it disapproves of local governance.

This thread is about attempts to bar individuals of a certain group from employment & housing based on beliefs that their group is a threat. That’s literally the definition of invidious discrimination and it is wholly illegal. Linden is going to get their pants sued off. And the Linden school district has horrendous test scores now, so perhaps Mr Mayor ought not to throw stones.

And that sort of invidious discrimination is practiced by many, if not most, of the community.

Obviously a public official should have known better but the irony is that that was what he was responding to.

A religious community deciding on its own rules is not the same thing as a government official unlawfully discriminating. This is all basic stuff about our country.

It is when the group captures local government and uses it as a vehicle to further its own goals

Political machines and interest-based politics are a fact of our system. There should be checks and balances in place sure. But it’s a democracy and they won elections … I looked into the East Ramapo school district and while it’s doing terribly, so are many other NY state school districts. It seems to be a broader problem with failing schools and local control. There’s no reason why NJ cannot inplement measures to support local school districts. Linden schools seem to be failing already. What would seem prudent for a mayor is to build bridges to everyone in the community; not ostracize some based on their religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop comparing Hasidim to the Taliban. They might look funny and have offensive views, but they're not killing anybody.

But there are numerous reports of illegal activities, robbing government institutions, pedophilia rings, and the like. You keep reporting these post because you don't want it exposed. NJ is totally in the right here. But whatever fees your hard right extremist religious narrative, I guess. Next you'll be arguing why it is right to refuse women the right to work, and why children should be barred from studying math and literature.Bringing back the 15th century is harmful to society. The rest of us all know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very divisive cultural issue in NJ. I don't think most people on this thread understand the cultural dynamics at play unless they have lived in NJ at some point. Many people are very scared that a large influx of a population with very different social viewpoints (than the current residents) will create an environment that is hostile to their general way of life. People are also concerned about potential risks to women's rights due to religious beliefs regarding gender segregation. There are literally pools in NJ now that have mens only and women's only swimming hours (or even entire days). I am not sure what the solution is, but it will be very challenging to find a solution that is acceptable for both conservative religious groups the generally more secular residents currently in these NJ towns.

Ok, again, just because the minority became the majority and made some societal changes to support their conservative values doesn't make discrimination ok just because it makes you uncomfortable. Just use the pool at hours designated for you.

Discrimination is not ok but discrimination and segregation is also ok? Make up your mind

I'm saying the majority now ruling believes that genders should be separated. BTW Hasidics are not the only ones who do this. I think segregation is wrong but if I lived there I would have to fight it or move.

It still would not be right for me to discriminate to keep them off the school board or city government.

The law already has ways to handle the balance between religious accomodations and other interests. Allowing reasonable accomodations in the form of say a few hours of gender-segregated pools, is totally fine as well as its done fairly.

That's not a reasonable accomodation and you would be up in arms, as would I, if fundamentalist Muslims enacted that in an American community. I am not afraid of menstruation.

Gender segregated pool hours are already upheld in many places as a religious accomodation, which is a neutral principle of civil rights laws.

And of course the fact that you disagree with a person’s religious beliefs doesn’t mean you can discriminate against them in hiring. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly. Just because someone is a Reform Jew or any other religion does not mean they can be discriminated against.

Anti-discrimination laws generally apply to the government, employers, and providers of “public accomodations” (eg hotels and restaurants.) A religious group is of course free to discriminate as are individuals.

Of course. Every house is a religious institution, nobody is married, and no income is declared because it's a religious group.

are you saying because you believe negative tropes about jews that it’s ok to refuse to hire jews?

Not Jews. A supremacist religious fundamentalist sub sect no different than the Taliban, Westboro Baptist Church, or FLDS.

Those things are also all true for this fundamentalist offshoot.

How can or should the broader community of Rockland County counter this group in a way that's acceptable to you?

+1. Many of these PPs have no problem screaming down Westboro Baptist Church, Mormon groups, Branch Davidians, or similarly extremist lunatics, but when it comes to the extremist Hasidim, they are appalled.
As a private employer, I would never hire any of the above. Religious extremism in all of its forms is detrimental to a democratic, educated society. And the Hasidim have proved again and again that they are intent on destroying it.

Not that I agree, but if you listen to the podcast, the Hasidics wanted more SPED $ for their kids given the property taxes they were paying for years. The law says if those kids are getting the services, they needed to be in a public setting. They wanted to keep their kids in private so set about changing the law. Now that their kids were the majority of children in their district, they ran and got elected, found a lawyer who found a loophole.

How long will we be able the kingdom the way it is? In my community, for the kids who are now the majority, soccer is preferred to American football if they play a sport at all. Many of the girls don't play sports. How long before people decide they don't want the costs of sports their kids don't like or even play? Who is going to pay for the upkeep of football stadiums, uniforms &coaches, etc? They may prefer to spend the money on other things that benefit them. The 15-20% who enjoy things will eventually see them get dropped from budgets.

Yes, I know exactly what they did. And then they proceeded to effectively shut down the schools so that local kids in public schools could not even take enough core classes to graduate in 4 years. They removed the arts, athletics, electives, and fired teachers. It was completely and undeniably disgusting. I don't know how someone could support or even argue the benefits of shutting down a public school for local kids just becuase some religious fanatics wanted to take their tax money back. Too bad. Paying public school taxes is part of living in our civil society. If they don't like it, they can remove themselves to some far off compound. They offer zero benefits to society at large.

That’s one school district in an entirely different state, run by entirely different people. Not to mention that the state should take more responsibility if it disapproves of local governance.

This thread is about attempts to bar individuals of a certain group from employment & housing based on beliefs that their group is a threat. That’s literally the definition of invidious discrimination and it is wholly illegal. Linden is going to get their pants sued off. And the Linden school district has horrendous test scores now, so perhaps Mr Mayor ought not to throw stones.

And that sort of invidious discrimination is practiced by many, if not most, of the community.

Obviously a public official should have known better but the irony is that that was what he was responding to.

A religious community deciding on its own rules is not the same thing as a government official unlawfully discriminating. This is all basic stuff about our country.

Individual members of that community committing unlawful and invidious religious discrimination is also illegal and should not be handwaved away or excused.

Are you saying they should go to jail for having rules about their religion? What? Or is there something more specific here?

When their religious beliefs violates our civil and/or criminal laws, of course. Just because your religious doctrine says something does not mean that it supersedes our domestic rule of law. There is a wealth of child custody cases where religious beliefs were utilized to support child abuse, all of which were rejected by courts. In short, you cannot harm someone just because your god tells you to.