“Wrap-around services.” Do you agree this is the problem?

[Anonymous]

Ok why are we deleting the posts about Trayvon White Sr breaking the law? It’s factual topical and relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will wraparound services fix the problem? No. Ending poverty and structural racism is the only thing that will fix the problem. But it might help, whereas increasing criminalization does not help.

Help who?

It is telling that this simoke question couldn't be answered.

The reason why we have societal rules (ie: criminal law) is to protect the average citizen. It's not illegal to defecate in public because people dont know better. It's illegal because defecating in public causes harm to everyone else.

Wraparound services help minimize the long term cost (financial and social) of enforcement but are not a replacement for it. Of course we should try and minimize recidivism and reduce root causes such as poverty but that does not mean we should stop entorcement or care more about the perpetrator than the victim. The first order prioroty is always enforcement. The second order priority is addressing the long term root causes in order to make the short term enforcement unnecessary. They work together and are mutually reinforcing. Without enforcement wraparound services are pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Following up on the recent panel discussion you can find (and discussed) here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1183416.page

Gist was: youth in DC would not commit crime if they were given “wrap-around” services by the government / taxpayers.

Do you agree that is the problem / issue / solution to crime in DC?

Why or why not ?

I mean it might help a bit with prevention. But people who think this would be a solution fail to realize that it requires buy-in from the youth themselves. You can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink.

Definitely wouldn’t hurt but it would need a honest cost/benefit analysis. Already spend tens of thousands of dollars on free public school for every single kid regardless of if the kid is skipping/doing work/putting in effort/actually benefiting. And public education is a HUGE if not the biggest expense of state/local governments (i.e. directly funded by tax payers, can not run deficits and print money like the fed does). Don’t want to create an even more expensive parallel service that costs the same/more and doesn’t make a massive difference.

Actually, you can force a horse to drink as a condition of its release. There are plenty of services overall for kids/families in DC--and 'wraparound' services for kids tangled up in the legal system should provide services -- like GED for example--that they must take advantage of for release back into community. What do they need to be a better, societally inclined person? Education, counseling, job training, group sessions, check-ins? Make them do it before they are released as adults at 26. Also, if they are not adults until 26 in the eyes of DC then they should be help until then (unless they take advantage of a LOT of wraparound services).

[Anonymous]

Bwahaha

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Following up on the recent panel discussion you can find (and discussed) here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1183416.page

Gist was: youth in DC would not commit crime if they were given “wrap-around” services by the government / taxpayers.

Do you agree that is the problem / issue / solution to crime in DC?

Why or why not ?

I mean it might help a bit with prevention. But people who think this would be a solution fail to realize that it requires buy-in from the youth themselves. You can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink.

Definitely wouldn’t hurt but it would need a honest cost/benefit analysis. Already spend tens of thousands of dollars on free public school for every single kid regardless of if the kid is skipping/doing work/putting in effort/actually benefiting. And public education is a HUGE if not the biggest expense of state/local governments (i.e. directly funded by tax payers, can not run deficits and print money like the fed does). Don’t want to create an even more expensive parallel service that costs the same/more and doesn’t make a massive difference.

Actually, you can force a horse to drink as a condition of its release. There are plenty of services overall for kids/families in DC--and 'wraparound' services for kids tangled up in the legal system should provide services -- like GED for example--that they must take advantage of for release back into community. What do they need to be a better, societally inclined person? Education, counseling, job training, group sessions, check-ins? Make them do it before they are released as adults at 26. Also, if they are not adults until 26 in the eyes of DC then they should be help until then (unless they take advantage of a LOT of wraparound services).

I thought the issue we were discussing was the unavailability of wraparound services until a kid has contact with the criminal justice system. So it’s trying to treat a problem after it has started which some are arguing is too late to make a large difference.

Yes I agree that it should be a requirement of release/probation/leniency.

But if the purported solution is making wraparound services universally available BEFORE having an interaction with the law— there’s not really anything to force utilization. And the kids that don’t care and wouldn’t utilize services are probably more often than not the main sources of trouble making.

Just like in school, the kids that didn’t care about class/caused disruptions/constantly got into trouble… there wasn’t a wayto “force” them into caring about their future, and it cost taxpayers the same amount of money each year to teach them (if not more) as it did everyone else.. And now it’s not uncommon for me to see their names as adults, on the county prison roster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC literally spends over $100 million per year on these type of services. Money can’t change a culture.

They need to start doing a much more close and critical evaluation of which services are working, which aren't, what's well coordinated, what isn't and start being a lot more effective in what they throw money at.

[Anonymous]

I think it would help, but it starts too late. I think it needs to begin during the prenatal period because stress hormones during pregnancy can affect the baby’s brain development and future mental health. There should be free, high quality programs to enrich babies and toddlers and universal pre-K3. Teach anger management and conflict resolution to young kids. Provide high quality after school programs until 6 pm so kids are less likely to be unsupervised. Offer jobs and apprenticeships to every 14 to 18 year old and put a matching amount in a savings account that can be used for college, trade school, or entrepreneurship.

[Anonymous]

Just give it up now if you think you can be fair and convince anyone here.

The Allen thread got locked up after a bunch of Allen’s own quotes got posted and deleted. It’s actually a good indicator we are moving the needle where it matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC literally spends over $100 million per year on these type of services. Money can’t change a culture.

They need to start doing a much more close and critical evaluation of which services are working, which aren't, what's well coordinated, what isn't and start being a lot more effective in what they throw money at.

No, we need more money. The District has around 290,000 Black residents. The roughly $350 for each Black resident. That's pocket change. If the NPOs are "skimming" for salaries, I am surprised that the services are even noticeable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC literally spends over $100 million per year on these type of services. Money can’t change a culture.

They need to start doing a much more close and critical evaluation of which services are working, which aren't, what's well coordinated, what isn't and start being a lot more effective in what they throw money at.

No, we need more money. The District has around 290,000 Black residents. The roughly $350 for each Black resident. That's pocket change. If the NPOs are "skimming" for salaries, I am surprised that the services are even noticeable.

Yes, I’m sure just a bit more money will help…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Following up on the recent panel discussion you can find (and discussed) here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1183416.page

Gist was: youth in DC would not commit crime if they were given “wrap-around” services by the government / taxpayers.

Do you agree that is the problem / issue / solution to crime in DC?

Why or why not ?

I mean it might help a bit with prevention. But people who think this would be a solution fail to realize that it requires buy-in from the youth themselves. You can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink.

Definitely wouldn’t hurt but it would need a honest cost/benefit analysis. Already spend tens of thousands of dollars on free public school for every single kid regardless of if the kid is skipping/doing work/putting in effort/actually benefiting. And public education is a HUGE if not the biggest expense of state/local governments (i.e. directly funded by tax payers, can not run deficits and print money like the fed does). Don’t want to create an even more expensive parallel service that costs the same/more and doesn’t make a massive difference.

Actually, you can force a horse to drink as a condition of its release. There are plenty of services overall for kids/families in DC--and 'wraparound' services for kids tangled up in the legal system should provide services -- like GED for example--that they must take advantage of for release back into community. What do they need to be a better, societally inclined person? Education, counseling, job training, group sessions, check-ins? Make them do it before they are released as adults at 26. Also, if they are not adults until 26 in the eyes of DC then they should be help until then (unless they take advantage of a LOT of wraparound services).

I thought the issue we were discussing was the unavailability of wraparound services until a kid has contact with the criminal justice system. So it’s trying to treat a problem after it has started which some are arguing is too late to make a large difference.

Yes I agree that it should be a requirement of release/probation/leniency.

But if the purported solution is making wraparound services universally available BEFORE having an interaction with the law— there’s not really anything to force utilization. And the kids that don’t care and wouldn’t utilize services are probably more often than not the main sources of trouble making.

Just like in school, the kids that didn’t care about class/caused disruptions/constantly got into trouble… there wasn’t a wayto “force” them into caring about their future, and it cost taxpayers the same amount of money each year to teach them (if not more) as it did everyone else.. And now it’s not uncommon for me to see their names as adults, on the county prison roster.

Yes, but it's also unavailable after they interact with the law. And since kids are starting to interact with the law at 12, 13 in DC-that needs to be looked at too. Why are they being caught and released, or warehoused with video games instead of being offered "wraparound services' that would put them on a better path?

[Anonymous]

Seems like the more services are offered, the worse the problem gets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC literally spends over $100 million per year on these type of services. Money can’t change a culture.

They need to start doing a much more close and critical evaluation of which services are working, which aren't, what's well coordinated, what isn't and start being a lot more effective in what they throw money at.

Cut down on the grift? NOT going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Boarding school for the kids who want to get away from dysfunctional family. I was that kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it would help, but it starts too late. I think it needs to begin during the prenatal period because stress hormones during pregnancy can affect the baby’s brain development and future mental health. There should be free, high quality programs to enrich babies and toddlers and universal pre-K3. Teach anger management and conflict resolution to young kids. Provide high quality after school programs until 6 pm so kids are less likely to be unsupervised. Offer jobs and apprenticeships to every 14 to 18 year old and put a matching amount in a savings account that can be used for college, trade school, or entrepreneurship.

12 hours of daycare from babyhood on. So the less time spent with one's biological mother the better? But as someone said earlier, more time with the biological father is needed too?