How is it possible for people to not be able to afford children?

[Anonymous]

(student loans x 2) + daycare = very expensive

We had kids while living in a small apartment, which is challenging, but how we made it work.

[Anonymous]

This is a clown question, bro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've heard the "I can't afford children" from many couples without children. These couples are in their 30s which is an age at which you've worked enough to have a decently paying career, so it's weird. I was making around 50K before I had my children and stayed home and my husband didn't hit 150k until a couples of years later, so we're pretty average in our area. We're planning to send our kids to public school when they're older and enroll them in cheaper activities, but it looks like everyone around us is holding out for private schools which can be incredibly expensive. Have these lifestyle expectations made children "unaffordable" or there's something else I'm missing?

If you are making a HHI over 100k a few years ago and now at 150k on one person working and no childcare costs and other costs associated with working such as needing two cars, wear and tear, office clothing, food, etc. then you are better off than a dual working couple making 150k combined (i.e. two teachers with master's degrees and 10 years' experience) who pay for daycare.

Are you dense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s more that they can’t factor kids into their current lifestyle. Of course they can afford kids in the purely technical sense, but not while keeping the same standard of living or giving their future kids everything they believe is necessary.

And that’s fine. Not everyone needs to have kids, and people can choose not to do so if they don’t believe it’s the right choice for them.

+1. This applies to any number of kids. I have two and we have budgeted for private school, expensive camps, a couple of nice vacations, adequate savings etc.- an UMC life . Three would be a stretch for us with those priorities, and our HHI is over 500k. Could we send our kids to public school and make it work? Yes, but it’s all about choices. Obviously this is different from two people making a joint 90k annually but is usually about choices.

Also, in ones mid thirties, if they’re not in a financial position to have kids, that’s kind of on them. They have been in the workforce for more than over a decade at that point.

I work guiding adults through career changes. About half of them are immigrants with professions who had to take lower paid jobs here because that's still preferable to what they'd make in their country. Others are adults who grew up poor and had to take a lower paid job straight out of highschool which limited their education to a community college diploma that's unlikely to pay more than 45k a year and often much less. The biggest challenge for these people is they don't have a fixed schedule which further education might require and reducing hours to go back to school would also reduce their income below what they'd need to survive. We offer financial help for the transition, but there's just not enough budget for everyone that needs it.

Having a well paid career is a privilege most people don't understand they have.

[Anonymous]

My husband and I have a combined HHI of $250k and it still feels like a reach: between daycare and student loan costs, it doesn’t go very far. Now imagine we made what a standard American household makes. Unless you get free childcare from grandparents or help with your down payment/education, it is not easy to afford it all.

Murica.

[Anonymous]

They cant afford children and have the same lifestyle as pre children. Daycare is $2500 per month for one. That for at least 3 years. Diaper etc etc all adds up too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s more that they can’t factor kids into their current lifestyle. Of course they can afford kids in the purely technical sense, but not while keeping the same standard of living or giving their future kids everything they believe is necessary.

And that’s fine. Not everyone needs to have kids, and people can choose not to do so if they don’t believe it’s the right choice for them.

+1. This applies to any number of kids. I have two and we have budgeted for private school, expensive camps, a couple of nice vacations, adequate savings etc.- an UMC life . Three would be a stretch for us with those priorities, and our HHI is over 500k. Could we send our kids to public school and make it work? Yes, but it’s all about choices. Obviously this is different from two people making a joint 90k annually but is usually about choices.

Also, in ones mid thirties, if they’re not in a financial position to have kids, that’s kind of on them. They have been in the workforce for more than over a decade at that point.

I work guiding adults through career changes. About half of them are immigrants with professions who had to take lower paid jobs here because that's still preferable to what they'd make in their country. Others are adults who grew up poor and had to take a lower paid job straight out of highschool which limited their education to a community college diploma that's unlikely to pay more than 45k a year and often much less. The biggest challenge for these people is they don't have a fixed schedule which further education might require and reducing hours to go back to school would also reduce their income below what they'd need to survive. We offer financial help for the transition, but there's just not enough budget for everyone that needs it.

Having a well paid career is a privilege most people don't understand they have.

+2

I have a good career now, but I definitely did not enter the professional workforce until a few years ago (I’m in my late thirties). I had to put myself through school but was ineligible to get financial aid until I was considered independent at 26, because it’s presumed your parents take care of you or will help with your education before then - I became fully independent at 18. Then I got married, got divorced, got an advanced degree to make myself more marketable….

People who are able to go from HS to college to the professional workforce are incredibly lucky.

[Anonymous]

I make $58k as a teacher. My spouse, also a teacher, makes about the same. Our combined income is under $120k and that's before taxes/retirement/etc.

We have been denied a home loan because the bank doesn't think we make enough to be able to pay a mortgage even though we have never once missed a rent payment of $2290/month. And we both have excellent credit scores. We do both have student loan debt we carry ($22k for me and $29k for my spouse). We have no other debt.

I'd love to have kids, but it's just not feasible for us in this area. We've thought about moving but our entire support system is here. We both grew up in this area and all our family and friends live here.

I am approaching 30 and my spouse just turned 30. We don't live extravagant lives at all. We eat out once a week. We aren't coffee drinkers so there's no pesky daily Starbucks to cut out that B**mers like to advise us to eliminate to save money. We just paid off my car last year and my spouse still drives the car he was gifted after his college graduation 8 years ago. We take 1 vacation each year, usually to OCMD or VA Beach. His parents own a cabin on Lake Anna that we sometimes use once or twice a year if it's not being rented out.

From what I've seen, unless a teacher is married to a high-earning spouse, they really struggle financially once kids are thrown into the mix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They cant afford children and have the same lifestyle as pre children. Daycare is $2500 per month for one. That for at least 3 years. Diaper etc etc all adds up too.

They could always make sacrifices... like not paying rent or reducing their food intake to one meal per day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get out of your bubble.

The median HHI in the US is only like $70k. Try raising a family on that while trying to own a home, pay for childcare, save for college, and save for your own retirement. That's not even factoring costs for daily living.

The median family income is around 100k, which would be low for any major metro much less the DMV.

Nope, the PP was right--the median US HHI is just under 70k as of Dec 2023. And that figure typically includes households with heads between 25-55 years old, so you would expect 30 year olds to be on the lower end. And the majority of people do live in major metropolitan areas in the US (and that percentage is steadily growing).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this for real?
You were making 50K, which is closer to what an average american makes compared to what your husband makes. Now imagine that instead of having a husband making 150K, you had one that made 50k like you did. Staying home under that situation would leave you 50K minus taxes, which is not poverty level, but low for any practical purpose. If instead you decided to go to work, you'd be spending 20k+ on daycare, assuming both you and your husband had regular schedules and didn't work shifts.

Your $50k wouldn’t even cover decent childcare after taxes. What world are you living in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've heard the "I can't afford children" from many couples without children. These couples are in their 30s which is an age at which you've worked enough to have a decently paying career, so it's weird. I was making around 50K before I had my children and stayed home and my husband didn't hit 150k until a couples of years later, so we're pretty average in our area. We're planning to send our kids to public school when they're older and enroll them in cheaper activities, but it looks like everyone around us is holding out for private schools which can be incredibly expensive. Have these lifestyle expectations made children "unaffordable" or there's something else I'm missing?

Yes, everyone's situation is different and you can't compare yours with others. There are many who can afford to have 8 children and send all of them to Ivy. There are some who can't afford to have any. It depends. Even if they HHI is a certain amount, until you know their financial obligations, it's hard to judge.

A lot of people who don't have children due to health/infertility issues wont be broadcasting the real reason. It's easier to say "can't afford" and end the topic when they get questioned about not having kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this for real?
You were making 50K, which is closer to what an average american makes compared to what your husband makes. Now imagine that instead of having a husband making 150K, you had one that made 50k like you did. Staying home under that situation would leave you 50K minus taxes, which is not poverty level, but low for any practical purpose. If instead you decided to go to work, you'd be spending 20k+ on daycare, assuming both you and your husband had regular schedules and didn't work shifts.

OP here. I'd assume that as a woman who's interested in having children you wouldn't look for a man making 50K unless you're fresh out of school or you wanted to become a provider yourself and as I said. 150K is pretty normal here. Almost any couple of professionals should be able to hit that mark in their 30s.

You are deep in a bubble if you think 150k is an average salary. I’ve got an Ivy League degree that y’all covet and decades of work experience and just cracked 100k this year.

Someone making $150k is literally in the top 10% of wage earners in this country. So should only 10% of people in this country have children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I make $58k as a teacher. My spouse, also a teacher, makes about the same. Our combined income is under $120k and that's before taxes/retirement/etc.

We have been denied a home loan because the bank doesn't think we make enough to be able to pay a mortgage even though we have never once missed a rent payment of $2290/month. And we both have excellent credit scores. We do both have student loan debt we carry ($22k for me and $29k for my spouse). We have no other debt.

I'd love to have kids, but it's just not feasible for us in this area. We've thought about moving but our entire support system is here. We both grew up in this area and all our family and friends live here.

I am approaching 30 and my spouse just turned 30. We don't live extravagant lives at all. We eat out once a week. We aren't coffee drinkers so there's no pesky daily Starbucks to cut out that B**mers like to advise us to eliminate to save money. We just paid off my car last year and my spouse still drives the car he was gifted after his college graduation 8 years ago. We take 1 vacation each year, usually to OCMD or VA Beach. His parents own a cabin on Lake Anna that we sometimes use once or twice a year if it's not being rented out.

From what I've seen, unless a teacher is married to a high-earning spouse, they really struggle financially once kids are thrown into the mix.

Rent is too high. I pay under $2k all included in 20007. Had you invested the difference all those years and picked up extra work, you'd have very high down payment, reserves, a mortgage to pay right now. How do two strong young people not work two jobs now that you are young?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They cant afford children and have the same lifestyle as pre children. Daycare is $2500 per month for one. That for at least 3 years. Diaper etc etc all adds up too.

With daycare that expensive + housing family would be spending close to 50k a year. For a family making 60k that's not a matter of lifestyle, it's a financial disaster.