Confederate female memorial being moved from Arlington County

[Anonymous]

Glad to see that Virginia’s Governor is stepping in to see it isn’t destroyed. The fad of creating down and renaming can’t pass soon enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the confederate monuments had gone up at the time of the war maybe I'd have some sympathy for them but most were put up post 1900 by apologist groups trying to rewrite history with some Lost Cause propaganda. And for PP above worried about these monuments to the losers of the Civil War, don't worry -- Youngkin & others are keeping these monuments, they just will no longer get prime real estate with our actual war heroes. Not sorry that insurrectionists are not being honored in Arlington anymore.

Except that's not what happened. In 1900 the South was slowly recovering from the effects of war, and people were still mourning and remembering their war dead. But with the advent of Spanish-American War, there was a greater need for the government to foster unity. Before this, families of confederate soldiers weren't allowed entry into Arlington to place flowers on the graves of their loved ones. There was a push to remove all the buried confederates to a Southern location, but the Confederate section and memorial were proposed as a compromise. This monument was integral to the reconciliation process, and in recognizing the humanity and losses faced by the "other" side.

The statue was dedicated in 1914, 49 years after the end of the Civil War, and 16 years after the Spanish-American War.

You can go admire it somewhere else.

The south literally had no money after the war. Many regions did not start recovering until the 1940s and WWII.

Rich white southerners were rich again within a few decades.

The nullification of slave wealth after the U.S. Civil War (1861-65) was one of the largest episodes of wealth compressions in history. We document that white Southern households holding more slave assets in 1860 lost substantially more wealth by 1870, relative to households that had been equally wealthy before the war. Yet, the sons of former slaveholders recovered relative to comparable sons by 1900, and grandsons surpassed their counterparts in educational and occupational attainment by 1940. We find that social networks facilitated this recovery, with sons marrying into other former slaveholding families. Transmission of entrepreneurship and skills appear less central.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w25700

But yes, you're right, Jim Crow was a system intentionally designed to keep large numbers of people poor and powerless, and it was effective. In fact, here we are, almost 160 years later, and 11 of the 15 states with the lowest per capita income are former Jim Crow states: Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, Alabama, Kentucky, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Missouri, North Carolina, Florida. (The other 4 are West Virginia, New Mexico, Ohio, and Indiana.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The memorial is pro-slavery. I assume the people who are "for" it are ignorant or bots.

or white supremacists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

Is it really, though. Is the answer to just abolish anything that brings up that period in our history? You can’t simply remove and destroy. Well, I guess you can as evidenced here but it’s not the way. Learning from history, but still accepting this was a period in our county’s history, makes more sense. It’s like those people running around trying to shut down freedom of speech. Isn’t the the answer to have better speech- than to shut the other side down?

It would be easier for me to agree with you — if, over the last 150 years or so, this country— as a whole — grappled honestly with the painfully ignoble aspects of our country’s history, and made sure that everyone understood our history, resolved to grow beyond it. Instead, we got Jim Crow laws, legal racial segregation, a few years of complicated and modest progress, and, now, MAGA influencing everything from our “justice” system to books no longer available in school libraries.
So, I’d agree with you that there are better ways to handle this country’s history, but what many people have learned from this period in history is that white supremacy has its benefits. We had a century and a half to do better. Many, including those who erected such statues and those who venerate them, have deliberately chosen not to.

You’re bringing to light “some people” but certainly not all. I am average American citizen with roots in both the north and south (and by south I mean plantation owners). I teach my children history is to be learned from and not repeated. We “do better” than our ancestors and that’s a fact. I will agree with you there are area lot of missteps throughout history. You can’t “make” everyone understand or agree with history and the right/wrong of it. The statutes, the renaming of bases (Ft Bragg to Ft Liberty) would make sense to me if it really was a decision made as a country or we came together to discuss and learn/grow. But what is being learned by our children’s generation by doing this? And what are we learning as a country? Division. Just another, new, version of division and conflict.

That we will no longer put up statues honoring people who went to war on the side of a legal system that defined certain people as property rather than people.

thats the problem, your southern ancestors shouldn't feel equally American to the northern ones. They were traitors who were vanquished and conquered and your plantation dwelling ancestors are the same as goering/himmler- something to mention as a strange tidbit of which you are vaguely ashamed. you should feel that - the southerners should feel like their ancestors were a conquered people who are looked down upon and shameful to the vast majority of Americans. There should be no southern pride. southern pride is a betrayal of the abolitionist cause and actual Great Americans like Frederick Douglas. Im nt saying that ppl should feel personal shame but they should certainly feel like the Confederates are not a part of the History of this great nation called the United States. Like an immigrant feels, confederate ancestors arent a part of this nation, they are a separate people, a people who were put dow by the heroes of these United States, literally burned down by General Sherman.

No. No no no.

I hope you're trolling but your nonsense is offensive as well as wrong. No.

DP. Which part was wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

Is it really, though. Is the answer to just abolish anything that brings up that period in our history? You can’t simply remove and destroy. Well, I guess you can as evidenced here but it’s not the way. Learning from history, but still accepting this was a period in our county’s history, makes more sense. It’s like those people running around trying to shut down freedom of speech. Isn’t the the answer to have better speech- than to shut the other side down?

It would be easier for me to agree with you — if, over the last 150 years or so, this country— as a whole — grappled honestly with the painfully ignoble aspects of our country’s history, and made sure that everyone understood our history, resolved to grow beyond it. Instead, we got Jim Crow laws, legal racial segregation, a few years of complicated and modest progress, and, now, MAGA influencing everything from our “justice” system to books no longer available in school libraries.
So, I’d agree with you that there are better ways to handle this country’s history, but what many people have learned from this period in history is that white supremacy has its benefits. We had a century and a half to do better. Many, including those who erected such statues and those who venerate them, have deliberately chosen not to.

You’re bringing to light “some people” but certainly not all. I am average American citizen with roots in both the north and south (and by south I mean plantation owners). I teach my children history is to be learned from and not repeated. We “do better” than our ancestors and that’s a fact. I will agree with you there are area lot of missteps throughout history. You can’t “make” everyone understand or agree with history and the right/wrong of it. The statutes, the renaming of bases (Ft Bragg to Ft Liberty) would make sense to me if it really was a decision made as a country or we came together to discuss and learn/grow. But what is being learned by our children’s generation by doing this? And what are we learning as a country? Division. Just another, new, version of division and conflict.

That we will no longer put up statues honoring people who went to war on the side of a legal system that defined certain people as property rather than people.

thats the problem, your southern ancestors shouldn't feel equally American to the northern ones. They were traitors who were vanquished and conquered and your plantation dwelling ancestors are the same as goering/himmler- something to mention as a strange tidbit of which you are vaguely ashamed. you should feel that - the southerners should feel like their ancestors were a conquered people who are looked down upon and shameful to the vast majority of Americans. There should be no southern pride. southern pride is a betrayal of the abolitionist cause and actual Great Americans like Frederick Douglas. Im nt saying that ppl should feel personal shame but they should certainly feel like the Confederates are not a part of the History of this great nation called the United States. Like an immigrant feels, confederate ancestors arent a part of this nation, they are a separate people, a people who were put dow by the heroes of these United States, literally burned down by General Sherman.

No. No no no.

I hope you're trolling but your nonsense is offensive as well as wrong. No.

DP. Which part was wrong?

Every single sentence.

[Anonymous]

Just like today it was the top 1% rich elites that profited from slavery that made the laws. Same with pushing the south to get involved in the Civil War. It wasn’t the average southern Joe on the street that pushed for war. To condemn the entire south for the Civil War is just wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like today it was the top 1% rich elites that profited from slavery that made the laws. Same with pushing the south to get involved in the Civil War. It wasn’t the average southern Joe on the street that pushed for war. To condemn the entire south for the Civil War is just wrong.

True! For example, in many places, the "average southern Joe" was an enslaved person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

Is it really, though. Is the answer to just abolish anything that brings up that period in our history? You can’t simply remove and destroy. Well, I guess you can as evidenced here but it’s not the way. Learning from history, but still accepting this was a period in our county’s history, makes more sense. It’s like those people running around trying to shut down freedom of speech. Isn’t the the answer to have better speech- than to shut the other side down?

We don't have any monuments commemorating British rule, yet everyone seems to learn that history just fine. This idea that monuments are essential to history is silly.

Maybe? I mean, weren’t the colonists the domestic terrorists in the American Civil War?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

Is it really, though. Is the answer to just abolish anything that brings up that period in our history? You can’t simply remove and destroy. Well, I guess you can as evidenced here but it’s not the way. Learning from history, but still accepting this was a period in our county’s history, makes more sense. It’s like those people running around trying to shut down freedom of speech. Isn’t the the answer to have better speech- than to shut the other side down?

It would be easier for me to agree with you — if, over the last 150 years or so, this country— as a whole — grappled honestly with the painfully ignoble aspects of our country’s history, and made sure that everyone understood our history, resolved to grow beyond it. Instead, we got Jim Crow laws, legal racial segregation, a few years of complicated and modest progress, and, now, MAGA influencing everything from our “justice” system to books no longer available in school libraries.
So, I’d agree with you that there are better ways to handle this country’s history, but what many people have learned from this period in history is that white supremacy has its benefits. We had a century and a half to do better. Many, including those who erected such statues and those who venerate them, have deliberately chosen not to.

You’re bringing to light “some people” but certainly not all. I am average American citizen with roots in both the north and south (and by south I mean plantation owners). I teach my children history is to be learned from and not repeated. We “do better” than our ancestors and that’s a fact. I will agree with you there are area lot of missteps throughout history. You can’t “make” everyone understand or agree with history and the right/wrong of it. The statutes, the renaming of bases (Ft Bragg to Ft Liberty) would make sense to me if it really was a decision made as a country or we came together to discuss and learn/grow. But what is being learned by our children’s generation by doing this? And what are we learning as a country? Division. Just another, new, version of division and conflict.

That we will no longer put up statues honoring people who went to war on the side of a legal system that defined certain people as property rather than people.

thats the problem, your southern ancestors shouldn't feel equally American to the northern ones. They were traitors who were vanquished and conquered and your plantation dwelling ancestors are the same as goering/himmler- something to mention as a strange tidbit of which you are vaguely ashamed. you should feel that - the southerners should feel like their ancestors were a conquered people who are looked down upon and shameful to the vast majority of Americans. There should be no southern pride. southern pride is a betrayal of the abolitionist cause and actual Great Americans like Frederick Douglas. Im nt saying that ppl should feel personal shame but they should certainly feel like the Confederates are not a part of the History of this great nation called the United States. Like an immigrant feels, confederate ancestors arent a part of this nation, they are a separate people, a people who were put dow by the heroes of these United States, literally burned down by General Sherman.

Wow, PP. Your attempt to put down southerners is also an argument that would deny at least post-Civil War immigrants and their descendants the ability to claim themselves as real Americans, ‘cause they were not part of team North when it won.

Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

A laurel wreath and a quote about ending war and going back to productive life? Whoever wants this removed is an ignoramus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just like today it was the top 1% rich elites that profited from slavery that made the laws. Same with pushing the south to get involved in the Civil War. It wasn’t the average southern Joe on the street that pushed for war. To condemn the entire south for the Civil War is just wrong.

True! For example, in many places, the "average southern Joe" was an enslaved person.

Weird thing to joke about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just like today it was the top 1% rich elites that profited from slavery that made the laws. Same with pushing the south to get involved in the Civil War. It wasn’t the average southern Joe on the street that pushed for war. To condemn the entire south for the Civil War is just wrong.

True! For example, in many places, the "average southern Joe" was an enslaved person.

Weird thing to joke about.

Who's joking? The Census population of South Carolina in 1860 was 703,708 people. Using the Census categories, the breakdown was

Total whites: 291,300
Total free colored: 9,914
Total slaves: 402,406
Total Indians: 88

57% of people in South Carolina in 1860 were enslaved. The average person in South Carolina in 1860 was an enslaved person.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand how these statues were allowed in the first place. The southerners were treasonous, they lost, they supported something as vile as enslaving another human being. Show me anywhere else where the losers to a war put up statues of their heroes. It’s the same as Germans putting up a hitler statue and claiming it’s their history. Why would you want to celebrate that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

A laurel wreath and a quote about ending war and going back to productive life? Whoever wants this removed is an ignoramus.

The quote honors the dead “heroes”. I think we can all agree that the confederates were not heroes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good to get rid of a monument about the two sides coming back together and living in peace?

This was the original "both sides" mistake. We never should have allowed the south to "come back".

Brilliant statement. Then I guess we didn’t need to have a war at all, since literally Lincoln’s entire purpose for fighting the war was to “preserve the Union.” Guess he should have just let them leave.