Confederate female memorial being moved from Arlington County

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t feel strongly either way, but for the progressives who spend so much of their time worrying about memorials and names on schools, how about rolling your sleeves up and addressing real systemic racism - Exhibit A would be the DC Public School system.

How do you know systemic racism isn't caused by statues? We have tried fixing systemic racismand it hasn't worked, so we need to try something else.

I believe that's the proper liberal logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t feel strongly either way, but for the progressives who spend so much of their time worrying about memorials and names on schools, how about rolling your sleeves up and addressing real systemic racism - Exhibit A would be the DC Public School system.

Here's a little light reading for you: https://permanent.fdlp.gov/gpo189897/Naming_Commission_Final_Report_Part_III.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the confederate monuments had gone up at the time of the war maybe I'd have some sympathy for them but most were put up post 1900 by apologist groups trying to rewrite history with some Lost Cause propaganda. And for PP above worried about these monuments to the losers of the Civil War, don't worry -- Youngkin & others are keeping these monuments, they just will no longer get prime real estate with our actual war heroes. Not sorry that insurrectionists are not being honored in Arlington anymore.

Except that's not what happened. In 1900 the South was slowly recovering from the effects of war, and people were still mourning and remembering their war dead. But with the advent of Spanish-American War, there was a greater need for the government to foster unity. Before this, families of confederate soldiers weren't allowed entry into Arlington to place flowers on the graves of their loved ones. There was a push to remove all the buried confederates to a Southern location, but the Confederate section and memorial were proposed as a compromise. This monument was integral to the reconciliation process, and in recognizing the humanity and losses faced by the "other" side.

The statue was dedicated in 1914, 49 years after the end of the Civil War, and 16 years after the Spanish-American War.

You can go admire it somewhere else.

The information is all outlined on the monument’s Wikipedia page. Feel free to look it up, but it sounds like you already did and chose to ignore the context and history. History is nuanced, and I realize that’s hard for some people, particularly a broad-brush person like yourself. The focus on razing a monument to the confederate war dead in 2023 is some useless orchestration to distract us from real problems. The only predictable effect will be sowing division before the next election cycle. Perhaps that is the true goal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the confederate monuments had gone up at the time of the war maybe I'd have some sympathy for them but most were put up post 1900 by apologist groups trying to rewrite history with some Lost Cause propaganda. And for PP above worried about these monuments to the losers of the Civil War, don't worry -- Youngkin & others are keeping these monuments, they just will no longer get prime real estate with our actual war heroes. Not sorry that insurrectionists are not being honored in Arlington anymore.

Except that's not what happened. In 1900 the South was slowly recovering from the effects of war, and people were still mourning and remembering their war dead. But with the advent of Spanish-American War, there was a greater need for the government to foster unity. Before this, families of confederate soldiers weren't allowed entry into Arlington to place flowers on the graves of their loved ones. There was a push to remove all the buried confederates to a Southern location, but the Confederate section and memorial were proposed as a compromise. This monument was integral to the reconciliation process, and in recognizing the humanity and losses faced by the "other" side.

The statue was dedicated in 1914, 49 years after the end of the Civil War, and 16 years after the Spanish-American War.

You can go admire it somewhere else.

The information is all outlined on the monument’s Wikipedia page. Feel free to look it up, but it sounds like you already did and chose to ignore the context and history. History is nuanced, and I realize that’s hard for some people, particularly a broad-brush person like yourself. The focus on razing a monument to the confederate war dead in 2023 is some useless orchestration to distract us from real problems. The only predictable effect will be sowing division before the next election cycle. Perhaps that is the true goal?

Eh? You're the one distracted by it, apparently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the confederate monuments had gone up at the time of the war maybe I'd have some sympathy for them but most were put up post 1900 by apologist groups trying to rewrite history with some Lost Cause propaganda. And for PP above worried about these monuments to the losers of the Civil War, don't worry -- Youngkin & others are keeping these monuments, they just will no longer get prime real estate with our actual war heroes. Not sorry that insurrectionists are not being honored in Arlington anymore.

Except that's not what happened. In 1900 the South was slowly recovering from the effects of war, and people were still mourning and remembering their war dead. But with the advent of Spanish-American War, there was a greater need for the government to foster unity. Before this, families of confederate soldiers weren't allowed entry into Arlington to place flowers on the graves of their loved ones. There was a push to remove all the buried confederates to a Southern location, but the Confederate section and memorial were proposed as a compromise. This monument was integral to the reconciliation process, and in recognizing the humanity and losses faced by the "other" side.

The statue was dedicated in 1914, 49 years after the end of the Civil War, and 16 years after the Spanish-American War.

You can go admire it somewhere else.

The information is all outlined on the monument’s Wikipedia page. Feel free to look it up, but it sounds like you already did and chose to ignore the context and history. History is nuanced, and I realize that’s hard for some people, particularly a broad-brush person like yourself. The focus on razing a monument to the confederate war dead in 2023 is some useless orchestration to distract us from real problems. The only predictable effect will be sowing division before the next election cycle. Perhaps that is the true goal?

We can do more than one thing. In addition to more serious problems, we can remove these traitor trash monuments.

The white supremacists who want to keep these monuments already opt-ed out of society. It's not relevant for the next election cycle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good to get rid of a monument about the two sides coming back together and living in peace?

I don't think the south wanted to come together to live in peace. They gave up because they were losing badly.

Ironic that there should be a monument for them in the "United" States of America, a country they no longer wanted to be part of.

The South was not a monolith. And they did come back together.

cause they lost the war. If they had won, there would've been countries here, not one, the US of A.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

Is it really, though. Is the answer to just abolish anything that brings up that period in our history? You can’t simply remove and destroy. Well, I guess you can as evidenced here but it’s not the way. Learning from history, but still accepting this was a period in our county’s history, makes more sense. It’s like those people running around trying to shut down freedom of speech. Isn’t the the answer to have better speech- than to shut the other side down?

It would be easier for me to agree with you — if, over the last 150 years or so, this country— as a whole — grappled honestly with the painfully ignoble aspects of our country’s history, and made sure that everyone understood our history, resolved to grow beyond it. Instead, we got Jim Crow laws, legal racial segregation, a few years of complicated and modest progress, and, now, MAGA influencing everything from our “justice” system to books no longer available in school libraries.
So, I’d agree with you that there are better ways to handle this country’s history, but what many people have learned from this period in history is that white supremacy has its benefits. We had a century and a half to do better. Many, including those who erected such statues and those who venerate them, have deliberately chosen not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the confederate monuments had gone up at the time of the war maybe I'd have some sympathy for them but most were put up post 1900 by apologist groups trying to rewrite history with some Lost Cause propaganda. And for PP above worried about these monuments to the losers of the Civil War, don't worry -- Youngkin & others are keeping these monuments, they just will no longer get prime real estate with our actual war heroes. Not sorry that insurrectionists are not being honored in Arlington anymore.

When half the states leave a voluntary union, that’s not an insurrection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

Is it really, though. Is the answer to just abolish anything that brings up that period in our history? You can’t simply remove and destroy. Well, I guess you can as evidenced here but it’s not the way. Learning from history, but still accepting this was a period in our county’s history, makes more sense. It’s like those people running around trying to shut down freedom of speech. Isn’t the the answer to have better speech- than to shut the other side down?

It would be easier for me to agree with you — if, over the last 150 years or so, this country— as a whole — grappled honestly with the painfully ignoble aspects of our country’s history, and made sure that everyone understood our history, resolved to grow beyond it. Instead, we got Jim Crow laws, legal racial segregation, a few years of complicated and modest progress, and, now, MAGA influencing everything from our “justice” system to books no longer available in school libraries.
So, I’d agree with you that there are better ways to handle this country’s history, but what many people have learned from this period in history is that white supremacy has its benefits. We had a century and a half to do better. Many, including those who erected such statues and those who venerate them, have deliberately chosen not to.

NP. Nope. Coming together as a single unified country after a civil war is a true success story. Tearing statues down now is bizarre. We don't need to, shouldn't, relitigate the civil war.

How much time have you spent in different parts of this country? Have you spent any time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

Is it really, though. Is the answer to just abolish anything that brings up that period in our history? You can’t simply remove and destroy. Well, I guess you can as evidenced here but it’s not the way. Learning from history, but still accepting this was a period in our county’s history, makes more sense. It’s like those people running around trying to shut down freedom of speech. Isn’t the the answer to have better speech- than to shut the other side down?

It would be easier for me to agree with you — if, over the last 150 years or so, this country— as a whole — grappled honestly with the painfully ignoble aspects of our country’s history, and made sure that everyone understood our history, resolved to grow beyond it. Instead, we got Jim Crow laws, legal racial segregation, a few years of complicated and modest progress, and, now, MAGA influencing everything from our “justice” system to books no longer available in school libraries.
So, I’d agree with you that there are better ways to handle this country’s history, but what many people have learned from this period in history is that white supremacy has its benefits. We had a century and a half to do better. Many, including those who erected such statues and those who venerate them, have deliberately chosen not to.

You’re bringing to light “some people” but certainly not all. I am average American citizen with roots in both the north and south (and by south I mean plantation owners). I teach my children history is to be learned from and not repeated. We “do better” than our ancestors and that’s a fact. I will agree with you there are area lot of missteps throughout history. You can’t “make” everyone understand or agree with history and the right/wrong of it. The statutes, the renaming of bases (Ft Bragg to Ft Liberty) would make sense to me if it really was a decision made as a country or we came together to discuss and learn/grow. But what is being learned by our children’s generation by doing this? And what are we learning as a country? Division. Just another, new, version of division and conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

Is it really, though. Is the answer to just abolish anything that brings up that period in our history? You can’t simply remove and destroy. Well, I guess you can as evidenced here but it’s not the way. Learning from history, but still accepting this was a period in our county’s history, makes more sense. It’s like those people running around trying to shut down freedom of speech. Isn’t the the answer to have better speech- than to shut the other side down?

It would be easier for me to agree with you — if, over the last 150 years or so, this country— as a whole — grappled honestly with the painfully ignoble aspects of our country’s history, and made sure that everyone understood our history, resolved to grow beyond it. Instead, we got Jim Crow laws, legal racial segregation, a few years of complicated and modest progress, and, now, MAGA influencing everything from our “justice” system to books no longer available in school libraries.
So, I’d agree with you that there are better ways to handle this country’s history, but what many people have learned from this period in history is that white supremacy has its benefits. We had a century and a half to do better. Many, including those who erected such statues and those who venerate them, have deliberately chosen not to.

You’re bringing to light “some people” but certainly not all. I am average American citizen with roots in both the north and south (and by south I mean plantation owners). I teach my children history is to be learned from and not repeated. We “do better” than our ancestors and that’s a fact. I will agree with you there are area lot of missteps throughout history. You can’t “make” everyone understand or agree with history and the right/wrong of it. The statutes, the renaming of bases (Ft Bragg to Ft Liberty) would make sense to me if it really was a decision made as a country or we came together to discuss and learn/grow. But what is being learned by our children’s generation by doing this? And what are we learning as a country? Division. Just another, new, version of division and conflict.

These monuments to white supremacy are symbols of our division. We can’t really come together until we remove them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Removing a confederate statue from land donated by a confederate general so all soldiers would have a common final resting place.

What has America become?

Lol, needed to call this out. The land wasn't donated. It was confiscated during the war because its owner was the head of a traitorous enemy army, and the military started burying the dead on his front lawn. (Technically, it was confiscated for failure to pay taxes, but that was more or less a contrivance.)

After the war, the Supreme Court ruled that the confiscation had been illegal. At that point, Lee's heir sold the land and estate to the government. Again, the land was never donated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP. Nope. Coming together as a single unified country after a civil war is a true success story. Tearing statues down now is bizarre. We don't need to, shouldn't, relitigate the civil war.

How much time have you spent in different parts of this country? Have you spent any time?

That's true! Unfortunately, it didn't happen in the US.

Address your "we shouldn't relitigate the civil war" to the so-called Defend Arlington group, which is litigating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good.

The statue, unveiled in 1914, features a bronze woman, crowned with olive leaves, standing on a 32-foot pedestal, and was designed to represent the American South. According to Arlington, the woman holds a laurel wreath, a plow stock and a pruning hook, with a Biblical inscription at her feet that says: “They have beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning hooks.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

Is it really, though. Is the answer to just abolish anything that brings up that period in our history? You can’t simply remove and destroy. Well, I guess you can as evidenced here but it’s not the way. Learning from history, but still accepting this was a period in our county’s history, makes more sense. It’s like those people running around trying to shut down freedom of speech. Isn’t the the answer to have better speech- than to shut the other side down?

It would be easier for me to agree with you — if, over the last 150 years or so, this country— as a whole — grappled honestly with the painfully ignoble aspects of our country’s history, and made sure that everyone understood our history, resolved to grow beyond it. Instead, we got Jim Crow laws, legal racial segregation, a few years of complicated and modest progress, and, now, MAGA influencing everything from our “justice” system to books no longer available in school libraries.
So, I’d agree with you that there are better ways to handle this country’s history, but what many people have learned from this period in history is that white supremacy has its benefits. We had a century and a half to do better. Many, including those who erected such statues and those who venerate them, have deliberately chosen not to.

You’re bringing to light “some people” but certainly not all. I am average American citizen with roots in both the north and south (and by south I mean plantation owners). I teach my children history is to be learned from and not repeated. We “do better” than our ancestors and that’s a fact. I will agree with you there are area lot of missteps throughout history. You can’t “make” everyone understand or agree with history and the right/wrong of it. The statutes, the renaming of bases (Ft Bragg to Ft Liberty) would make sense to me if it really was a decision made as a country or we came together to discuss and learn/grow. But what is being learned by our children’s generation by doing this? And what are we learning as a country? Division. Just another, new, version of division and conflict.

That we will no longer put up statues honoring people who went to war on the side of a legal system that defined certain people as property rather than people.

[Anonymous]

We have to promote national unity by continuing to honor dividing the country to protect the institutions of slavery and segregation.

We have to keep Jim Crow confederate monuments because the racists haven't yet agreed that slavery was wrong.