Are the MAP score percentiles meaningful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.

I know TP families have access to the best programs. We figured this out and moved there for that reason. Our kids went through the ES magnet, the CES program, the MS magnet, and even Blair SMCS magnet. A lot of families pick their homes because of the reputation of the school pyramid, nothing wrong with that...

It’s gatekeeping and hoarding resources, locked behind high priced homes, and all under the mantle of being a progressive area.

Then you should be happy that the magnet lottery now prefers students from low SES areas.

Except they didn’t get rid of the local set-aside. Those kids have their very own lottery for a significant number of the seats.

This is one of many reasons why families that value education choose TP.

What everyone is saying is what about families that value education but can’t afford to “choose TP?” Shouldn’t there be roughly equivalent access regardless of SES?

+1. I think the same access to programs and resources to implement those programs should be available at all MCPS schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.

I know TP families have access to the best programs. We figured this out and moved there for that reason. Our kids went through the ES magnet, the CES program, the MS magnet, and even Blair SMCS magnet. A lot of families pick their homes because of the reputation of the school pyramid, nothing wrong with that...

It’s gatekeeping and hoarding resources, locked behind high priced homes, and all under the mantle of being a progressive area.

Then you should be happy that the magnet lottery now prefers students from low SES areas.

Except they didn’t get rid of the local set-aside. Those kids have their very own lottery for a significant number of the seats.

This is one of many reasons why families that value education choose TP.

What everyone is saying is what about families that value education but can’t afford to “choose TP?” Shouldn’t there be roughly equivalent access regardless of SES?

+1. I think the same access to programs and resources to implement those programs should be available at all MCPS schools.

TP is economically diverse, and much of it is very affordable I think it's great that an area like this is making a high-quality education available to everyone. The same can't be said about Western moco which isn't economically diverse and seems to revel in opportunity hoarding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.

I know TP families have access to the best programs. We figured this out and moved there for that reason. Our kids went through the ES magnet, the CES program, the MS magnet, and even Blair SMCS magnet. A lot of families pick their homes because of the reputation of the school pyramid, nothing wrong with that...

It’s gatekeeping and hoarding resources, locked behind high priced homes, and all under the mantle of being a progressive area.

Then you should be happy that the magnet lottery now prefers students from low SES areas.

Except they didn’t get rid of the local set-aside. Those kids have their very own lottery for a significant number of the seats.

This is one of many reasons why families that value education choose TP.

What everyone is saying is what about families that value education but can’t afford to “choose TP?” Shouldn’t there be roughly equivalent access regardless of SES?

+1. I think the same access to programs and resources to implement those programs should be available at all MCPS schools.

TP is economically diverse, and much of it is very affordable I think it's great that an area like this is making a high-quality education available to everyone. The same can't be said about Western moco which isn't economically diverse and seems to revel in opportunity hoarding.

It should be done on a county level, at all schools, not local set asides at specific schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.

I know TP families have access to the best programs. We figured this out and moved there for that reason. Our kids went through the ES magnet, the CES program, the MS magnet, and even Blair SMCS magnet. A lot of families pick their homes because of the reputation of the school pyramid, nothing wrong with that...

It’s gatekeeping and hoarding resources, locked behind high priced homes, and all under the mantle of being a progressive area.

Then you should be happy that the magnet lottery now prefers students from low SES areas.

Except they didn’t get rid of the local set-aside. Those kids have their very own lottery for a significant number of the seats.

This is one of many reasons why families that value education choose TP.

What everyone is saying is what about families that value education but can’t afford to “choose TP?” Shouldn’t there be roughly equivalent access regardless of SES?

+1. I think the same access to programs and resources to implement those programs should be available at all MCPS schools.

TP is economically diverse, and much of it is very affordable I think it's great that an area like this is making a high-quality education available to everyone. The same can't be said about Western moco which isn't economically diverse and seems to revel in opportunity hoarding.

Except the special/set-aside opportunites in TP end up taken highly disproportionately by the high-SES families owning in relatively expensive SFH areas, not accruing to the lower SES families that give the overall area diversity, (although pocketed, geographically).

Get rid of the set-asides. Sometime I think that the combination of "That's why we chose TP!" and [whatever logical fallicy that amounts to "Don't heed the posts outlining systemic inequities."] is just a real estate agent or two trying to preserve the relative value of their commissions. Not that that behavior is exclusive to TP (see: Ws).

[Anonymous]

What a strange thread. To the OP—don’t sweat the scores yet. Like a PP said, there are so many variables at play for a test given at that age, and really, they are still learning basic math regardless of what they score.

And to the PPs fighting about TKPK progressivism— you are right that most progressives find that their values erode in the face of trying to find a school that will meet their kids’ needs and give them the best education they can get. This isn’t unique to any location. this thread is like watching latte sipping liberals deride oat milk latte sipping liberals. If you want that sort of a program at your school, advocate for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.

I know TP families have access to the best programs. We figured this out and moved there for that reason. Our kids went through the ES magnet, the CES program, the MS magnet, and even Blair SMCS magnet. A lot of families pick their homes because of the reputation of the school pyramid, nothing wrong with that...

It’s gatekeeping and hoarding resources, locked behind high priced homes, and all under the mantle of being a progressive area.

Then you should be happy that the magnet lottery now prefers students from low SES areas.

Except they didn’t get rid of the local set-aside. Those kids have their very own lottery for a significant number of the seats.

This is one of many reasons why families that value education choose TP.

What everyone is saying is what about families that value education but can’t afford to “choose TP?” Shouldn’t there be roughly equivalent access regardless of SES?

+1. I think the same access to programs and resources to implement those programs should be available at all MCPS schools.

TP is economically diverse, and much of it is very affordable I think it's great that an area like this is making a high-quality education available to everyone. The same can't be said about Western moco which isn't economically diverse and seems to revel in opportunity hoarding.

It should be done on a county level, at all schools, not local set asides at specific schools.

I know especially the advanced math that is only offered at the wealthy Potomac schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.

I know TP families have access to the best programs. We figured this out and moved there for that reason. Our kids went through the ES magnet, the CES program, the MS magnet, and even Blair SMCS magnet. A lot of families pick their homes because of the reputation of the school pyramid, nothing wrong with that...

It’s gatekeeping and hoarding resources, locked behind high priced homes, and all under the mantle of being a progressive area.

Then you should be happy that the magnet lottery now prefers students from low SES areas.

Except they didn’t get rid of the local set-aside. Those kids have their very own lottery for a significant number of the seats.

This is one of many reasons why families that value education choose TP.

What everyone is saying is what about families that value education but can’t afford to “choose TP?” Shouldn’t there be roughly equivalent access regardless of SES?

+1. I think the same access to programs and resources to implement those programs should be available at all MCPS schools.

TP is economically diverse, and much of it is very affordable I think it's great that an area like this is making a high-quality education available to everyone. The same can't be said about Western moco which isn't economically diverse and seems to revel in opportunity hoarding.

Except the special/set-aside opportunites in TP end up taken highly disproportionately by the high-SES families owning in relatively expensive SFH areas, not accruing to the lower SES families that give the overall area diversity, (although pocketed, geographically).

Get rid of the set-asides. Sometime I think that the combination of "That's why we chose TP!" and [whatever logical fallicy that amounts to "Don't heed the posts outlining systemic inequities."] is just a real estate agent or two trying to preserve the relative value of their commissions. Not that that behavior is exclusive to TP (see: Ws).

From what I've seen as a parent with kids who have gone through these programs, that's not true. TKPK is diverse, as are the students who participate in these programs, especially in comparison to those selected from the larger county. However, if it makes you feel good to believe otherwise, knock yourself out. The set aside provides a wonderful opportunity for many kids without taking spots away from the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My son (1st grade) scored 95th percentile on MAP test math in the spring. He was placed in the lower of the two math classes for second grade and I was told the higher math class is for kids that scored 98/99 percentile. I’m just curious if that is generally how it works, mid 90s is considered “on grade level”.

The percentiles are from National data, not just kids in MCPS or in your school. Overall, MCPS students score very high percentiles, especially in ES, because our population is highly educated and most kids get good starts in math and reading in preschool or at home. So yes, there are a lot of 98-99% students, and the “average” student is in the 90s.

This is not even close to my experience. You are guessing here. All evidence suggests that MCPS data is very similar to national data.

What evidence can you link?

If you look at the student score report, it shows both the MCPS and national percentiles, and the bars on the graph are VERY close.

That is a county-wide mean for the year. The national norms to which they are compared were established in 2020 when there was no (particular/nationwide) disruption of learning affecting scores with the partial exception of, perhaps, Spring norms (but with plenty of prior learning to bolster those to great degree). MCPS students, along with the whole nation, had learning in the interim affected by CovID.

A system that achieved means comparable to the norms is likely considerably in advance of other systems. I believe that the reported MCPS means you cite were notably above the national average in years prior.

In addition, a bimodal (or other non-normal) distribution, with clustering at the top and bottom (putatively representing those with outaide support/close family academic involvement on the one hand and those without on the other, reflecting the great relative SES diversity of this county), could further explain a mean near national averages but a relatively high population of high scorers. Only MCPS would have data to support or refute such a theory (or to supply an alternate explanation of anecdotal observations), but it is plausible. However, I wouldn't think the prior poster's assertion that the average is in the 90s is at all likely, except, possibly, at individual schools that benefit from the supports typically better available to those in higher-SES communities.

No they were not. I have my kid’s MAP report cards for prior to 2020 and the comparison between MCPS and national has remained consistent. MCPS is higher but not a lot. It’sa consistent fallacy here in DCUM land that all kids in MCPS are geniuses and much better than the national average. It’s really not true.

Some of our kids are average.

Most of MCPS kids are average and below average. My kid is a genius.

Well, that’s obnoxious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son (1st grade) scored 95th percentile on MAP test math in the spring. He was placed in the lower of the two math classes for second grade and I was told the higher math class is for kids that scored 98/99 percentile. I’m just curious if that is generally how it works, mid 90s is considered “on grade level”.

The percentiles are from National data, not just kids in MCPS or in your school. Overall, MCPS students score very high percentiles, especially in ES, because our population is highly educated and most kids get good starts in math and reading in preschool or at home. So yes, there are a lot of 98-99% students, and the “average” student is in the 90s.

This is not even close to my experience. You are guessing here. All evidence suggests that MCPS data is very similar to national data.

What evidence can you link?

If you look at the student score report, it shows both the MCPS and national percentiles, and the bars on the graph are VERY close.

If you have a student in MCPS, you can log in to Parentvue and look at your student's MAP report, which shows the county and national averages relative to your student. It's there for any MCPS parent to see.

Oh, I see MCPS averages are about 1%-2% above national averages. It's not that different, despite what some seem to think, but as some mentioned this is an average. This will vary widely even across MCPS depending on things like the FARMS rate.

Wow. This and a few others pushing the convo to a new page while adding little. It's almost as if we have sock puppets here. Imagine!

To reiterate...

That is a county-wide mean for the year. The national norms to which they are compared were established in 2020 when there was no (particular/nationwide) disruption of learning affecting scores with the partial exception of, perhaps, Spring norms (but with plenty of prior learning to bolster those to great degree). MCPS students, along with the whole nation, had learning in the interim affected by CovID.

A system that achieved means comparable to the norms is likely considerably in advance of other systems. I believe that the reported MCPS means you cite were notably above the national average in years prior.

In addition, a bimodal (or other non-normal) distribution, with clustering at the top and bottom (putatively representing those with outaide support/close family academic involvement on the one hand and those without on the other, reflecting the great relative SES diversity of this county), could further explain a mean near national averages but a relatively high population of high scorers. Only MCPS would have data to support or refute such a theory (or to supply an alternate explanation of anecdotal observations), but it is plausible. However, I wouldn't think the prior poster's assertion that the average is in the 90s is at all likely, except, possibly, at individual schools that benefit from the supports typically better available to those in higher-SES communities.

You don’t need to reiterate. Your claims are bunk. MCPS and national norms have been comparable since long before 2020. Keep up!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.

I know TP families have access to the best programs. We figured this out and moved there for that reason. Our kids went through the ES magnet, the CES program, the MS magnet, and even Blair SMCS magnet. A lot of families pick their homes because of the reputation of the school pyramid, nothing wrong with that...

It’s gatekeeping and hoarding resources, locked behind high priced homes, and all under the mantle of being a progressive area.

Then you should be happy that the magnet lottery now prefers students from low SES areas.

Except they didn’t get rid of the local set-aside. Those kids have their very own lottery for a significant number of the seats.

This is one of many reasons why families that value education choose TP.

What everyone is saying is what about families that value education but can’t afford to “choose TP?” Shouldn’t there be roughly equivalent access regardless of SES?

+1. I think the same access to programs and resources to implement those programs should be available at all MCPS schools.

TP is economically diverse, and much of it is very affordable I think it's great that an area like this is making a high-quality education available to everyone. The same can't be said about Western moco which isn't economically diverse and seems to revel in opportunity hoarding.

It should be done on a county level, at all schools, not local set asides at specific schools.

I know especially the advanced math that is only offered at the wealthy Potomac schools.

Troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.

I know TP families have access to the best programs. We figured this out and moved there for that reason. Our kids went through the ES magnet, the CES program, the MS magnet, and even Blair SMCS magnet. A lot of families pick their homes because of the reputation of the school pyramid, nothing wrong with that...

It’s gatekeeping and hoarding resources, locked behind high priced homes, and all under the mantle of being a progressive area.

Then you should be happy that the magnet lottery now prefers students from low SES areas.

Except they didn’t get rid of the local set-aside. Those kids have their very own lottery for a significant number of the seats.

This is one of many reasons why families that value education choose TP.

What everyone is saying is what about families that value education but can’t afford to “choose TP?” Shouldn’t there be roughly equivalent access regardless of SES?

+1. I think the same access to programs and resources to implement those programs should be available at all MCPS schools.

TP is economically diverse, and much of it is very affordable I think it's great that an area like this is making a high-quality education available to everyone. The same can't be said about Western moco which isn't economically diverse and seems to revel in opportunity hoarding.

Except the special/set-aside opportunites in TP end up taken highly disproportionately by the high-SES families owning in relatively expensive SFH areas, not accruing to the lower SES families that give the overall area diversity, (although pocketed, geographically).

Get rid of the set-asides. Sometime I think that the combination of "That's why we chose TP!" and [whatever logical fallicy that amounts to "Don't heed the posts outlining systemic inequities."] is just a real estate agent or two trying to preserve the relative value of their commissions. Not that that behavior is exclusive to TP (see: Ws).

From what I've seen as a parent with kids who have gone through these programs, that's not true. TKPK is diverse, as are the students who participate in these programs, especially in comparison to those selected from the larger county. However, if it makes you feel good to believe otherwise, knock yourself out. The set aside provides a wonderful opportunity for many kids without taking spots away from the program.

How does it not take spots away?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a strange thread. To the OP—don’t sweat the scores yet. Like a PP said, there are so many variables at play for a test given at that age, and really, they are still learning basic math regardless of what they score.

And to the PPs fighting about TKPK progressivism— you are right that most progressives find that their values erode in the face of trying to find a school that will meet their kids’ needs and give them the best education they can get. This isn’t unique to any location. this thread is like watching latte sipping liberals deride oat milk latte sipping liberals. If you want that sort of a program at your school, advocate for it.

Call a spade a spade. "Go advocate" is dismissive. Advocacy includes debate like this, and that debate often comes when one poster responds to an OP with something clearly incorrect or slanted to drive one side of an ongoing debate, engendering a response.

Ignore it if it doesn't interest you. Listen and decide if it does.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My son (1st grade) scored 95th percentile on MAP test math in the spring. He was placed in the lower of the two math classes for second grade and I was told the higher math class is for kids that scored 98/99 percentile. I’m just curious if that is generally how it works, mid 90s is considered “on grade level”.

The percentiles are from National data, not just kids in MCPS or in your school. Overall, MCPS students score very high percentiles, especially in ES, because our population is highly educated and most kids get good starts in math and reading in preschool or at home. So yes, there are a lot of 98-99% students, and the “average” student is in the 90s.

This is not even close to my experience. You are guessing here. All evidence suggests that MCPS data is very similar to national data.

What evidence can you link?

If you look at the student score report, it shows both the MCPS and national percentiles, and the bars on the graph are VERY close.

If you have a student in MCPS, you can log in to Parentvue and look at your student's MAP report, which shows the county and national averages relative to your student. It's there for any MCPS parent to see.

Oh, I see MCPS averages are about 1%-2% above national averages. It's not that different, despite what some seem to think, but as some mentioned this is an average. This will vary widely even across MCPS depending on things like the FARMS rate.

Wow. This and a few others pushing the convo to a new page while adding little. It's almost as if we have sock puppets here. Imagine!

To reiterate...

That is a county-wide mean for the year. The national norms to which they are compared were established in 2020 when there was no (particular/nationwide) disruption of learning affecting scores with the partial exception of, perhaps, Spring norms (but with plenty of prior learning to bolster those to great degree). MCPS students, along with the whole nation, had learning in the interim affected by CovID.

A system that achieved means comparable to the norms is likely considerably in advance of other systems. I believe that the reported MCPS means you cite were notably above the national average in years prior.

In addition, a bimodal (or other non-normal) distribution, with clustering at the top and bottom (putatively representing those with outaide support/close family academic involvement on the one hand and those without on the other, reflecting the great relative SES diversity of this county), could further explain a mean near national averages but a relatively high population of high scorers. Only MCPS would have data to support or refute such a theory (or to supply an alternate explanation of anecdotal observations), but it is plausible. However, I wouldn't think the prior poster's assertion that the average is in the 90s is at all likely, except, possibly, at individual schools that benefit from the supports typically better available to those in higher-SES communities.

You don’t need to reiterate. Your claims are bunk. MCPS and national norms have been comparable since long before 2020. Keep up!!

You are simply being dismissive of the data and putative analysis ("The beat is too small!" -- It's a beat, and with great enough numbers to be statisticallymeaningful. Saying, "It's bunk!" without addressing the thoughts presented. These are merely the tools of rhetoric.)

MCPS has outperformed vs. the nation, even on average. However, not all of MCPS is outperforming, and, despite the overall positive data that does get reported (and MCPS's unwillingness to be open with data certainly can be criticized), MCPS fails to meet higher-level need, especially when viewed with an equity lens.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.

I know TP families have access to the best programs. We figured this out and moved there for that reason. Our kids went through the ES magnet, the CES program, the MS magnet, and even Blair SMCS magnet. A lot of families pick their homes because of the reputation of the school pyramid, nothing wrong with that...

It’s gatekeeping and hoarding resources, locked behind high priced homes, and all under the mantle of being a progressive area.

Then you should be happy that the magnet lottery now prefers students from low SES areas.

Except they didn’t get rid of the local set-aside. Those kids have their very own lottery for a significant number of the seats.

This is one of many reasons why families that value education choose TP.

What everyone is saying is what about families that value education but can’t afford to “choose TP?” Shouldn’t there be roughly equivalent access regardless of SES?

+1. I think the same access to programs and resources to implement those programs should be available at all MCPS schools.

TP is economically diverse, and much of it is very affordable I think it's great that an area like this is making a high-quality education available to everyone. The same can't be said about Western moco which isn't economically diverse and seems to revel in opportunity hoarding.

Except the special/set-aside opportunites in TP end up taken highly disproportionately by the high-SES families owning in relatively expensive SFH areas, not accruing to the lower SES families that give the overall area diversity, (although pocketed, geographically).

Get rid of the set-asides. Sometime I think that the combination of "That's why we chose TP!" and [whatever logical fallicy that amounts to "Don't heed the posts outlining systemic inequities."] is just a real estate agent or two trying to preserve the relative value of their commissions. Not that that behavior is exclusive to TP (see: Ws).

From what I've seen as a parent with kids who have gone through these programs, that's not true. TKPK is diverse, as are the students who participate in these programs, especially in comparison to those selected from the larger county. However, if it makes you feel good to believe otherwise, knock yourself out. The set aside provides a wonderful opportunity for many kids without taking spots away from the program.

How does it not take spots away?

This.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.

I know TP families have access to the best programs. We figured this out and moved there for that reason. Our kids went through the ES magnet, the CES program, the MS magnet, and even Blair SMCS magnet. A lot of families pick their homes because of the reputation of the school pyramid, nothing wrong with that...

It’s gatekeeping and hoarding resources, locked behind high priced homes, and all under the mantle of being a progressive area.

Then you should be happy that the magnet lottery now prefers students from low SES areas.

Except they didn’t get rid of the local set-aside. Those kids have their very own lottery for a significant number of the seats.

This is one of many reasons why families that value education choose TP.

What everyone is saying is what about families that value education but can’t afford to “choose TP?” Shouldn’t there be roughly equivalent access regardless of SES?

+1. I think the same access to programs and resources to implement those programs should be available at all MCPS schools.

TP is economically diverse, and much of it is very affordable I think it's great that an area like this is making a high-quality education available to everyone. The same can't be said about Western moco which isn't economically diverse and seems to revel in opportunity hoarding.

Except the special/set-aside opportunites in TP end up taken highly disproportionately by the high-SES families owning in relatively expensive SFH areas, not accruing to the lower SES families that give the overall area diversity, (although pocketed, geographically).

Get rid of the set-asides. Sometime I think that the combination of "That's why we chose TP!" and [whatever logical fallicy that amounts to "Don't heed the posts outlining systemic inequities."] is just a real estate agent or two trying to preserve the relative value of their commissions. Not that that behavior is exclusive to TP (see: Ws).

From what I've seen as a parent with kids who have gone through these programs, that's not true. TKPK is diverse, as are the students who participate in these programs, especially in comparison to those selected from the larger county. However, if it makes you feel good to believe otherwise, knock yourself out. The set aside provides a wonderful opportunity for many kids without taking spots away from the program.

So you're saying that the TP set-aside spots are filled by numbers proportional to the varying economic statuses and not disproportionally by the children in families with the disposble income to afford SFHs in the nicer areas? Please...