Are the MAP score percentiles meaningful?

[Anonymous]

In 1st grade, percentiles are very low accuracy, extremely depend on slight variations in prior exposure, literacy, computer comfort, and emotional maturity.

[Anonymous]

Don't worry about enrichment until 3rd grade. Below that, enrichment is very easy at home -- play games with cards and dice, talk about money and recipes, etc.

[Anonymous]

There is definitely not an MCPS policy with cutoffs for scores and math groups in lower grades. Our school doesn’t even separate kids at all until compacted math in 4th, and I don’t think that’s unusual. You should bring your questions to the teacher.

[Anonymous]

Agree with the posters above. I think it’s odd to have an accelerated and regular math class that young at an MCPS school based on first grade MAP scores. Seems overly competitive for something that is so variable at that age!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son (1st grade) scored 95th percentile on MAP test math in the spring. He was placed in the lower of the two math classes for second grade and I was told the higher math class is for kids that scored 98/99 percentile. I’m just curious if that is generally how it works, mid 90s is considered “on grade level”.

The percentiles are from National data, not just kids in MCPS or in your school. Overall, MCPS students score very high percentiles, especially in ES, because our population is highly educated and most kids get good starts in math and reading in preschool or at home. So yes, there are a lot of 98-99% students, and the “average” student is in the 90s.

This is not even close to my experience. You are guessing here. All evidence suggests that MCPS data is very similar to national data.

What evidence can you link?

If you look at the student score report, it shows both the MCPS and national percentiles, and the bars on the graph are VERY close.

That is a county-wide mean for the year. The national norms to which they are compared were established in 2020 when there was no (particular/nationwide) disruption of learning affecting scores with the partial exception of, perhaps, Spring norms (but with plenty of prior learning to bolster those to great degree). MCPS students, along with the whole nation, had learning in the interim affected by CovID.

A system that achieved means comparable to the norms is likely considerably in advance of other systems. I believe that the reported MCPS means you cite were notably above the national average in years prior.

In addition, a bimodal (or other non-normal) distribution, with clustering at the top and bottom (putatively representing those with outaide support/close family academic involvement on the one hand and those without on the other, reflecting the great relative SES diversity of this county), could further explain a mean near national averages but a relatively high population of high scorers. Only MCPS would have data to support or refute such a theory (or to supply an alternate explanation of anecdotal observations), but it is plausible. However, I wouldn't think the prior poster's assertion that the average is in the 90s is at all likely, except, possibly, at individual schools that benefit from the supports typically better available to those in higher-SES communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son (1st grade) scored 95th percentile on MAP test math in the spring. He was placed in the lower of the two math classes for second grade and I was told the higher math class is for kids that scored 98/99 percentile. I’m just curious if that is generally how it works, mid 90s is considered “on grade level”.

The percentiles are from National data, not just kids in MCPS or in your school. Overall, MCPS students score very high percentiles, especially in ES, because our population is highly educated and most kids get good starts in math and reading in preschool or at home. So yes, there are a lot of 98-99% students, and the “average” student is in the 90s.

This is not even close to my experience. You are guessing here. All evidence suggests that MCPS data is very similar to national data.

What evidence can you link?

Can’t link but go to your kid’s most recent MAP report and look at the chart showing national and local and see how close they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

Did you talk to Dr G about this? It’s been about 3 years since we were there but she gave me a very different impression when I discussed with her. That is that 99 percentile kids were very rare and real outliers,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son (1st grade) scored 95th percentile on MAP test math in the spring. He was placed in the lower of the two math classes for second grade and I was told the higher math class is for kids that scored 98/99 percentile. I’m just curious if that is generally how it works, mid 90s is considered “on grade level”.

The percentiles are from National data, not just kids in MCPS or in your school. Overall, MCPS students score very high percentiles, especially in ES, because our population is highly educated and most kids get good starts in math and reading in preschool or at home. So yes, there are a lot of 98-99% students, and the “average” student is in the 90s.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son (1st grade) scored 95th percentile on MAP test math in the spring. He was placed in the lower of the two math classes for second grade and I was told the higher math class is for kids that scored 98/99 percentile. I’m just curious if that is generally how it works, mid 90s is considered “on grade level”.

The percentiles are from National data, not just kids in MCPS or in your school. Overall, MCPS students score very high percentiles, especially in ES, because our population is highly educated and most kids get good starts in math and reading in preschool or at home. So yes, there are a lot of 98-99% students, and the “average” student is in the 90s.

This is not even close to my experience. You are guessing here. All evidence suggests that MCPS data is very similar to national data.

What evidence can you link?

If you look at the student score report, it shows both the MCPS and national percentiles, and the bars on the graph are VERY close.

That is a county-wide mean for the year. The national norms to which they are compared were established in 2020 when there was no (particular/nationwide) disruption of learning affecting scores with the partial exception of, perhaps, Spring norms (but with plenty of prior learning to bolster those to great degree). MCPS students, along with the whole nation, had learning in the interim affected by CovID.

A system that achieved means comparable to the norms is likely considerably in advance of other systems. I believe that the reported MCPS means you cite were notably above the national average in years prior.

In addition, a bimodal (or other non-normal) distribution, with clustering at the top and bottom (putatively representing those with outaide support/close family academic involvement on the one hand and those without on the other, reflecting the great relative SES diversity of this county), could further explain a mean near national averages but a relatively high population of high scorers. Only MCPS would have data to support or refute such a theory (or to supply an alternate explanation of anecdotal observations), but it is plausible. However, I wouldn't think the prior poster's assertion that the average is in the 90s is at all likely, except, possibly, at individual schools that benefit from the supports typically better available to those in higher-SES communities.

No they were not. I have my kid’s MAP report cards for prior to 2020 and the comparison between MCPS and national has remained consistent. MCPS is higher but not a lot. It’sa consistent fallacy here in DCUM land that all kids in MCPS are geniuses and much better than the national average. It’s really not true.

Some of our kids are average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son (1st grade) scored 95th percentile on MAP test math in the spring. He was placed in the lower of the two math classes for second grade and I was told the higher math class is for kids that scored 98/99 percentile. I’m just curious if that is generally how it works, mid 90s is considered “on grade level”.

The percentiles are from National data, not just kids in MCPS or in your school. Overall, MCPS students score very high percentiles, especially in ES, because our population is highly educated and most kids get good starts in math and reading in preschool or at home. So yes, there are a lot of 98-99% students, and the “average” student is in the 90s.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Absolutely. It’s like the people who think “everyone” is wealthy. Such a weird mentality and pretty insulting to both the kids who are struggling and the ones who are thriving academically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son (1st grade) scored 95th percentile on MAP test math in the spring. He was placed in the lower of the two math classes for second grade and I was told the higher math class is for kids that scored 98/99 percentile. I’m just curious if that is generally how it works, mid 90s is considered “on grade level”.

The percentiles are from National data, not just kids in MCPS or in your school. Overall, MCPS students score very high percentiles, especially in ES, because our population is highly educated and most kids get good starts in math and reading in preschool or at home. So yes, there are a lot of 98-99% students, and the “average” student is in the 90s.

This is not even close to my experience. You are guessing here. All evidence suggests that MCPS data is very similar to national data.

What evidence can you link?

If you look at the student score report, it shows both the MCPS and national percentiles, and the bars on the graph are VERY close.

That is a county-wide mean for the year. The national norms to which they are compared were established in 2020 when there was no (particular/nationwide) disruption of learning affecting scores with the partial exception of, perhaps, Spring norms (but with plenty of prior learning to bolster those to great degree). MCPS students, along with the whole nation, had learning in the interim affected by CovID.

A system that achieved means comparable to the norms is likely considerably in advance of other systems. I believe that the reported MCPS means you cite were notably above the national average in years prior.

In addition, a bimodal (or other non-normal) distribution, with clustering at the top and bottom (putatively representing those with outaide support/close family academic involvement on the one hand and those without on the other, reflecting the great relative SES diversity of this county), could further explain a mean near national averages but a relatively high population of high scorers. Only MCPS would have data to support or refute such a theory (or to supply an alternate explanation of anecdotal observations), but it is plausible. However, I wouldn't think the prior poster's assertion that the average is in the 90s is at all likely, except, possibly, at individual schools that benefit from the supports typically better available to those in higher-SES communities.

No they were not. I have my kid’s MAP report cards for prior to 2020 and the comparison between MCPS and national has remained consistent. MCPS is higher but not a lot. It’sa consistent fallacy here in DCUM land that all kids in MCPS are geniuses and much better than the national average. It’s really not true.

Some of our kids are average.

So, enough so that you note it. Or, "notably".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think that MCPS has different levels of math classes until 4th grade, when compacted math 4/5 starts.

OP

at our MCPS elementary school they call one enriched and the other will only receive enrichment on an “as needed” basis.

Which school?

Takoma Park Elementary

This may be a holdover from prior years, then, and not representative of MCPS. TPES/PBES (K-2/3-5 pairing) was the sole (I think) GT program-type school for locals with cohorted differentiation in early grades. There are/were others (Stonegate?), but they were K-5, following the CES model for 4th & 5th grade, but for the local catchment only.

One of the many weirdnesses of TP. Espousing super-progressivism, but happy to hoard an opportunity like this that largely falls to those in TP with means.

It's not TP's fault that the other schools are run poorly.

Sure, but it is inner TP's progressive hypocrisy (not that I'm against reasonable progressivism, itself) for insisting on this paradigm (available only to them, and generally benefitting the high SES families) when the TP schools were opened up to the "greater TP" area (with significant low SES and immigrant populations). Not to mention the in-catchment reserve for the Math/Science/CS criteria-based MS program at TPMS that makes it about 4 times as likely for a TP student to be admitted as those from the lower county catchment for that program.