A complete and total repudiation of all the people who bleat "calories in, calories out"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that we can all agree that obesity is not conducive to long-term health. However, can we also all agree that obesity is NOT some kind of moral failing on the part of those who are obese?

I don’t know about “moral” failing. But are you saying the obesity has nothing to do with individual choices and people have zero control over what they eat and how much. The most significant factor in obesity is what you are putting in your body.

Never said any of those things. However, even if people are making bad choices about what they are putting in their bodies, it absolutely does not mean they are lazy, or bad people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CICO is literally just basic thermodynamics. You can't refute it. Obesity is "complex," as noted by these "experts" because of the numerous mental and physiological problems that lead people to overconsume calories. The calories themselves are quite simple.

If this were why could me and my Asian best friend eat the same calories and I get fat while she doesn't gain a pound? Hell she ate more calories than me and didn't get fat, ever.

You don’t know what she eats. Maybe she ate more at one meal, then didn’t eat the rest of the day. Maybe she is busy moving around all day. It is impossible to compare

she could also be larger and require more calories to maintain her weight than you.

CICO doesn't mean we can all live off or gain or lose on the same number of calories. It simply means that your body has an exergy requirement. This requirement is based on muscle mass, body size/weight, activity level, and hormones. If you eat more/give your body more energy than it needs it will store this energy. if you give it less it will burn fat and muscle store to give it the energy it requires.

[Anonymous]

CICO is still true but what everyone sees is that it is simultaneously a paradox.

When I bought my house my furnace got an efficiency, it was like, 85% efficient. Every furnace has a different efficiency level (how much fuel will it use to produce heat).

People are the same. So sure, CICO, but every body burns calories at a different rate. Some people can BLOW through calories, they can eat their body weight and barely see the scale move. My husband for example, and he is, I'm sure this is relevant, VERY hot. Not sexy (although of course I think he is) but temperature hot. He runs very hot. And he can eat primarily cereal and beer (in addition to normal meals) and remain a men's small.

So sure CICO, yeah you got it. But no one blames a furnace if its inefficient, it needs to be repaired or replaced. It just IS. People's metabolisms also just ARE.

My husband would laugh in your face if you suggested that his size is due to his discipline. He doesn't think about what he eats at all, and he eats a lot! And he sees that I have to think about what I eat constantly just to keep me to a medium. I do IF, I eat buckets of protein, I never eat anything like cereal, I hardly ever drink, I exercise constantly. And honestly I feel good and healthy and strong so this isn't all some horrible woe is me story but for me this is a constant active battle. For him it is a non issue, he exercises, he doesn't, he eats dessert, he drinks, whatever, none of it matters. We have fundamentally different calorie processing efficiencies.

And its really hard to figure out what you are! So yes, obviously it makes a lot more sense to figure out how to fix our inner furnaces instead of acting like people who have to run 5 miles for another person's 1 to stay in shape are somehow lacking in commitment because they struggle to keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CICO is literally just basic thermodynamics. You can't refute it. Obesity is "complex," as noted by these "experts" because of the numerous mental and physiological problems that lead people to overconsume calories. The calories themselves are quite simple.

If this were why could me and my Asian best friend eat the same calories and I get fat while she doesn't gain a pound? Hell she ate more calories than me and didn't get fat, ever.

is she exercising more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Folks, you're wasting your breath. It has little to do with those things.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17908526/


https://www.obesityaction.org/resources/obesity-due-to-a-virus-how-this-changes-the-game/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-021-00805-6

https://www.wired.com/2016/12/mysterious-virus-cause-obesity/

This is interesting. I hadn't heard about a link between a virus and obesity. If that's the case, how would it be treated?

You can't eliminate EBV (another virus for comparison) if you have it, and to stop a flare the recommendation is natural treatments such a healthy food, rest, and improving gut health through supplements. Maybe seeing a naturopath, who is well-versed in chronic conditions, would be a logical step.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks, you're wasting your breath. It has little to do with those things.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17908526/


https://www.obesityaction.org/resources/obesity-due-to-a-virus-how-this-changes-the-game/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-021-00805-6

https://www.wired.com/2016/12/mysterious-virus-cause-obesity/

This is interesting. I hadn't heard about a link between a virus and obesity. If that's the case, how would it be treated?

You can't eliminate EBV (another virus for comparison) if you have it, and to stop a flare the recommendation is natural treatments such a healthy food, rest, and improving gut health through supplements. Maybe seeing a naturopath, who is well-versed in chronic conditions, would be a logical step.

And, I say that not that one has to lose weight, but that a virus would likely be causing nutritional deficiencies and/or other related symptoms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CICO is still true but what everyone sees is that it is simultaneously a paradox.

When I bought my house my furnace got an efficiency, it was like, 85% efficient. Every furnace has a different efficiency level (how much fuel will it use to produce heat).

People are the same. So sure, CICO, but every body burns calories at a different rate. Some people can BLOW through calories, they can eat their body weight and barely see the scale move. My husband for example, and he is, I'm sure this is relevant, VERY hot. Not sexy (although of course I think he is) but temperature hot. He runs very hot. And he can eat primarily cereal and beer (in addition to normal meals) and remain a men's small.

So sure CICO, yeah you got it. But no one blames a furnace if its inefficient, it needs to be repaired or replaced. It just IS. People's metabolisms also just ARE.

My husband would laugh in your face if you suggested that his size is due to his discipline. He doesn't think about what he eats at all, and he eats a lot! And he sees that I have to think about what I eat constantly just to keep me to a medium. I do IF, I eat buckets of protein, I never eat anything like cereal, I hardly ever drink, I exercise constantly. And honestly I feel good and healthy and strong so this isn't all some horrible woe is me story but for me this is a constant active battle. For him it is a non issue, he exercises, he doesn't, he eats dessert, he drinks, whatever, none of it matters. We have fundamentally different calorie processing efficiencies.

And its really hard to figure out what you are! So yes, obviously it makes a lot more sense to figure out how to fix our inner furnaces instead of acting like people who have to run 5 miles for another person's 1 to stay in shape are somehow lacking in commitment because they struggle to keep up.

Yep, while CICO is true, it oversimplifies it. I'm on one of the medicines being discussed here, and it's essentially improving my "furnace efficiency". I'm down 15 pounds in the last three weeks despite eating a diet pretty similar to before (I track on one of the apps).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something I heard about recently that I’ve wondered might be contributing to growing obesity rates (and my own waistline), is that food today is less nutritious than it used to be. In order to get the same amount of vitamins, minerals, etc., we have to eat more food today than in the past. Hypotheses for the cause seem to include depleted soils, new plant varieties, and increased CO2 levels causing plants to ripen faster, reducing the time they have to absorb nutrients from the soil, etc. Here are some links that explain it further:

https://www.bbc.com/future/bespoke/follow-the-food/why-modern-food-lost-its-nutrients/

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/vanishing-nutrients/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl_K2Ata6XY

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/environment-and-conservation/2022/05/fruits-and-vegetables-are-less-nutritious-than-they-used-to-be/amp

I agree it’s true but I don’t think it contributes to obesity. If people were doubling their vegetable intake because off the decreasing nutrition, they’d probably lose weight. It’s the non-nutritious delicious stuff that is the problem. I do think there is a fundamental rich country problem here—just thinking back to the 1970s, a croissant was something I had never seen. Maybe you could get one at a fancy bakery downtown in your city. Now they are everywhere! I you frozen ones at TJ so I can have them whenever I want! The delicious syrup I put in my coffee? I don’t think I’d ever seen that until the 90s. In the 70s, we maybe went out to eat a few times a year for special occasions. Now it seems like if you don’t get take out at least once a week, you’re kind of a weirdo. We have just fundamentally changed how we eat in a generation because we have taken all the most delicious stuff from all over the world and make it available in every grocery store or corner takeout spot, for fairly affordable prices.

I also believe that the hormone imitating chemical that were drowning in, and the death of our gut biome through excessive use of antibiotics in farming plays a really big role. The antibiotics would be an easy fix if anyone cared…. The plastics is somewhat more challenging but the EU is leading the way on that if we can follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CICO is literally just basic thermodynamics. You can't refute it. Obesity is "complex," as noted by these "experts" because of the numerous mental and physiological problems that lead people to overconsume calories. The calories themselves are quite simple.

Humans are not machines. We do not function by a simple mechanism and the people who insist we do look more ignorant with every passing year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CICO is literally just basic thermodynamics. You can't refute it. Obesity is "complex," as noted by these "experts" because of the numerous mental and physiological problems that lead people to overconsume calories. The calories themselves are quite simple.

Humans are not machines. We do not function by a simple mechanism and the people who insist we do look more ignorant with every passing year.

People aren’t become 30%-40% too large by rounding error differences in the speed and efficient with which calories are absorbed or burned off. It just doesn’t work that way. Even if you give somebody a 20% handicap it doesn’t explain the real problem - easy access to calorie dense shelf stable garbage, take out food, liquid calories, not moving, not eating real Whole Foods, and lack of decent sleep hygiene.

[Anonymous]

I am normally around 117, and have been between 110 and 123 most of my adult life, except when I was pregnant. I go out to eat a couple times a month, enjoy a latte here and there, and like to have a couple glasses of wine a few nights a week. I normally eat some eggs or oatmeal or a smoothie for breakfast, a salad with a nice portion of protein and a whole avocado for lunch and then some kind of meat and veggie for dinner

When the pandemic kicked off, I started snacking all day, drinking every night and then eating junk food. I quickly gained about 10 pounds. But how did that happen??? So mysterious….maybe it’s because of society???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CICO is literally just basic thermodynamics. You can't refute it. Obesity is "complex," as noted by these "experts" because of the numerous mental and physiological problems that lead people to overconsume calories. The calories themselves are quite simple.

If this were why could me and my Asian best friend eat the same calories and I get fat while she doesn't gain a pound? Hell she ate more calories than me and didn't get fat, ever.

is she exercising more?

She might just fidget- that alone is about a 20% increase in daily calorie burn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This doesn’t exactly repúdiate calories in v. calories out.

Usually people who use that phrase are being ridiculously smug and dismissive. But that doesn’t change the fact that except in rare cases, wright gain means that we have consumed more calories than we burned (and the calories that we burned means what we burn at rest v what we burn when we move).

Of course, a lot goes into this. Some burn fewer calories when they rest. Some are born with naturally bigger bodies. Some have genetics that make them hungrier. Some have psychological problems (including those caused by fat-shaming) that make them turn to food for comfort. Some are going to be naturally more inclined to eat donuts. Some have not been taught the value of nutrition or how to obtain and cook healthier food. Some people just do not have the time or energy to exercise, prepare good food, and Change habits. Some people have health issues that make it impossible for them to eat a lot of healthy foods (that’s me!).

But calories in/calories out is a good rule of thumb.

Although, perhaps the better rule of thumb is to just do the best you can for your health and not worry about weight because you can still be healthy at any size.

Absolutely! Cannot believe the experts won’t simply say this as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am normally around 117, and have been between 110 and 123 most of my adult life, except when I was pregnant. I go out to eat a couple times a month, enjoy a latte here and there, and like to have a couple glasses of wine a few nights a week. I normally eat some eggs or oatmeal or a smoothie for breakfast, a salad with a nice portion of protein and a whole avocado for lunch and then some kind of meat and veggie for dinner

When the pandemic kicked off, I started snacking all day, drinking every night and then eating junk food. I quickly gained about 10 pounds. But how did that happen??? So mysterious….maybe it’s because of society???

Everyone’s a comedian when it comes to fat shaming. “I’m concerned for their health! What, it’s a joke!”

Ten pounds isn’t obesity. I bet you were able to lose it and smugly congratulated yourself for being awesome. A little extra weight is not what we’re talking about. You being a bit pudgy is not the same thing as the metabolic condition known as obesity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am normally around 117, and have been between 110 and 123 most of my adult life, except when I was pregnant. I go out to eat a couple times a month, enjoy a latte here and there, and like to have a couple glasses of wine a few nights a week. I normally eat some eggs or oatmeal or a smoothie for breakfast, a salad with a nice portion of protein and a whole avocado for lunch and then some kind of meat and veggie for dinner

When the pandemic kicked off, I started snacking all day, drinking every night and then eating junk food. I quickly gained about 10 pounds. But how did that happen??? So mysterious….maybe it’s because of society???

Everyone’s a comedian when it comes to fat shaming. “I’m concerned for their health! What, it’s a joke!”

Ten pounds isn’t obesity. I bet you were able to lose it and smugly congratulated yourself for being awesome. A little extra weight is not what we’re talking about. You being a bit pudgy is not the same thing as the metabolic condition known as obesity.

A lot of people have these habits for years though; eating too much, eating junk, or a combo of both. Then when they are 50+lbs overweight and try to lose it is an issue. Obesity doesn’t happen overnight.