Youngkin will block schools from accommodating transgender students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

NP
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

It is true that transgender youth are more likely to commit suicide. Considering that dysmorphia is often enough comorbid with a bunch of other stuff, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21671938/, causality is far from clear. BTW do you really think the Trevor project came into this analysis trying to find the answer, in a spirit of scientific inquiry? Or maybe do you think you should interpret their study through the lens of understanding they are advocates for a position.

This "but they'll commit suicide" argument -- maybe it's true, but the evidence is not speaking loudly, if at all. Could even be the other way, that encouraging transitions leads to more suicides. Given the lack of careful causal analysis in this literature, we'll probably never know. That argument certainly does grab attention though.

BTW do you think people really "want these kids to be in danger"? I expect most believe (rightly) that gender dysmorphia is mostly a fad and that a return to common sense in the schools will do more good than harm for kids. I think you're turning your opponents into monsters to make yourself feel more righteous. They're not.

I think for a lot of kids identifying as gender nonconforming in any way is a temporary stop along the path to finding out their identity, which is why I held off on an official gender and name change for a child. But it looks like I’m going to have to make it official if I want to protect the mental health of my child. Unintended consequences and all that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

NP
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

It is true that transgender youth are more likely to commit suicide. Considering that dysmorphia is often enough comorbid with a bunch of other stuff, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21671938/, causality is far from clear. BTW do you really think the Trevor project came into this analysis trying to find the answer, in a spirit of scientific inquiry? Or maybe do you think you should interpret their study through the lens of understanding they are advocates for a position.

This "but they'll commit suicide" argument -- maybe it's true, but the evidence is not speaking loudly, if at all. Could even be the other way, that encouraging transitions leads to more suicides. Given the lack of careful causal analysis in this literature, we'll probably never know. That argument certainly does grab attention though.

BTW do you think people really "want these kids to be in danger"? I expect most believe (rightly) that gender dysmorphia is mostly a fad and that a return to common sense in the schools will do more good than harm for kids. I think you're turning your opponents into monsters to make yourself feel more righteous. They're not.

You can’t just muse about the cause of suicides. Parental and community support of gender identity significantly reduces suicide rates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7578185/

First, that’s a study of young transwomen, when the majority of the trans-identifying teenagers now are young trans men. It’s also from 2015 and earlier, which at seven years ago is not the same cohort as teenagers today. Read some detransition stories. Medicalization of young people who identify as trans happens at a never-before-seen level now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would want to know if my kid was, say, throwing away all her lunch at school and not eating, because this would be a sign of an eating disorder. I’d want to know if my kid was being bullied or being a bully to someone else. Why can’t I also know if my kid is demanding to be called a different name and pronouns at school as well? It’s wrong to keep this information from parents when kids spend a lot of their waking hours at school. It’s still a parenting issue, not just a schools issue.

I hope you see that the order is MUCH more than that, but the answer is obvious: trans kids get abused by their parents all the time when they find out. Look at the stats; they are horrifying. A absurd number of trans kids wind up homeless. Many teachers want those kids to feel safe around them.

+1, teachers can protect children as well, it literally part of our job. Some parents are closed-minded A$$HOLES, why would I encourage student harm/fear? The kids who want their parents to know have already told them. If your child is trans and you don’t know, then your child is afraid of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

NP
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

It is true that transgender youth are more likely to commit suicide. Considering that dysmorphia is often enough comorbid with a bunch of other stuff, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21671938/, causality is far from clear. BTW do you really think the Trevor project came into this analysis trying to find the answer, in a spirit of scientific inquiry? Or maybe do you think you should interpret their study through the lens of understanding they are advocates for a position.

This "but they'll commit suicide" argument -- maybe it's true, but the evidence is not speaking loudly, if at all. Could even be the other way, that encouraging transitions leads to more suicides. Given the lack of careful causal analysis in this literature, we'll probably never know. That argument certainly does grab attention though.

BTW do you think people really "want these kids to be in danger"? I expect most believe (rightly) that gender dysmorphia is mostly a fad and that a return to common sense in the schools will do more good than harm for kids. I think you're turning your opponents into monsters to make yourself feel more righteous. They're not.

You can’t just muse about the cause of suicides. Parental and community support of gender identity significantly reduces suicide rates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7578185/

First, that’s a study of young transwomen, when the majority of the trans-identifying teenagers now are young trans men. It’s also from 2015 and earlier, which at seven years ago is not the same cohort as teenagers today. Read some detransition stories. Medicalization of young people who identify as trans happens at a never-before-seen level now.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about names and pronouns. Needing to tell parents when that could put the child in danger. Teachers and other staff members being protected while they misgender students.

[Anonymous]

[u]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

NP
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

It is true that transgender youth are more likely to commit suicide. Considering that dysmorphia is often enough comorbid with a bunch of other stuff, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21671938/, causality is far from clear. BTW do you really think the Trevor project came into this analysis trying to find the answer, in a spirit of scientific inquiry? Or maybe do you think you should interpret their study through the lens of understanding they are advocates for a position.

This "but they'll commit suicide" argument -- maybe it's true, but the evidence is not speaking loudly, if at all. Could even be the other way, that encouraging transitions leads to more suicides. Given the lack of careful causal analysis in this literature, we'll probably never know. That argument certainly does grab attention though.

BTW do you think people really "want these kids to be in danger"? I expect most believe (rightly) that gender dysmorphia is mostly a fad and that a return to common sense in the schools will do more good than harm for kids. I think you're turning your opponents into monsters to make yourself feel more righteous. They're not.

Your link is ten years old, but thanks.

Do you think the basic facts about comorbidity have changed in the last 10 years?

[Anonymous]

If your child is trans and you don’t know, then your child is afraid of you.

This.

This new order from the Governor is basically saying that we shouldn't believe kids. We shouldn't believe them that their home is unsafe. We shouldn't believe them about their pronouns.

[Anonymous]

We are taking about kids in suburban DC who are largely liberals. We don’t need to protect these teens from their parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[u]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

NP
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

It is true that transgender youth are more likely to commit suicide. Considering that dysmorphia is often enough comorbid with a bunch of other stuff, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21671938/, causality is far from clear. BTW do you really think the Trevor project came into this analysis trying to find the answer, in a spirit of scientific inquiry? Or maybe do you think you should interpret their study through the lens of understanding they are advocates for a position.

This "but they'll commit suicide" argument -- maybe it's true, but the evidence is not speaking loudly, if at all. Could even be the other way, that encouraging transitions leads to more suicides. Given the lack of careful causal analysis in this literature, we'll probably never know. That argument certainly does grab attention though.

BTW do you think people really "want these kids to be in danger"? I expect most believe (rightly) that gender dysmorphia is mostly a fad and that a return to common sense in the schools will do more good than harm for kids. I think you're turning your opponents into monsters to make yourself feel more righteous. They're not.

Your link is ten years old, but thanks.

Do you think the basic facts about comorbidity have changed in the last 10 years?

There has been new research given the explosion of people who now feel empowered to identify as gender expansive.

Also, you didn't even read the conclusion of your link.

Despite the suffering resulting from the incongruence between experienced and assigned gender at the start of puberty, the majority of gender dysphoric adolescents do not have co-occurring psychiatric problems. Delayed eligibility for medical interventions is associated with psychiatric comorbidity although other factors are of importance as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are taking about kids in suburban DC who are largely liberals. We don’t need to protect these teens from their parents.

We don't just need to protect most of them. We should protect all of them.

And this is about all of Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

NP
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

It is true that transgender youth are more likely to commit suicide. Considering that dysmorphia is often enough comorbid with a bunch of other stuff, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21671938/, causality is far from clear. BTW do you really think the Trevor project came into this analysis trying to find the answer, in a spirit of scientific inquiry? Or maybe do you think you should interpret their study through the lens of understanding they are advocates for a position.

This "but they'll commit suicide" argument -- maybe it's true, but the evidence is not speaking loudly, if at all. Could even be the other way, that encouraging transitions leads to more suicides. Given the lack of careful causal analysis in this literature, we'll probably never know. That argument certainly does grab attention though.

BTW do you think people really "want these kids to be in danger"? I expect most believe (rightly) that gender dysmorphia is mostly a fad and that a return to common sense in the schools will do more good than harm for kids. I think you're turning your opponents into monsters to make yourself feel more righteous. They're not.

You can’t just muse about the cause of suicides. Parental and community support of gender identity significantly reduces suicide rates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7578185/

First, that’s a study of young transwomen, when the majority of the trans-identifying teenagers now are young trans men. It’s also from 2015 and earlier, which at seven years ago is not the same cohort as teenagers today. Read some detransition stories. Medicalization of young people who identify as trans happens at a never-before-seen level now.

Oh boy.

1. I just linked to the first article I liked on. Yes one study is just one study but if you actually really and truly wanted to understand the impacts of refusing to support a child who says they are gender nonconforming, you can look at a few more studies.

2. Explain to me how the bolded is relevant. This conversation is about pronouns, names, and facilities in schools. Not medical anything. The biggest "concern" anti-trans people have right now are kids who were assigned female at birth identifying as nonbinary and that almost never involves anything medical. Bringing it up is typically just a scare tactic.

3. Detransition is an issue that deserves attention and validation. Lots of trans people will be the first to tell you that. But that is also irrelevant to the issue of which pronouns and names teachers use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are taking about kids in suburban DC who are largely liberals. We don’t need to protect these teens from their parents.

It would be nice if that was the case, but Younkin is the governor of Virginia, not the Fairfax superintendent. Also plenty of kids in suburban DC have transphobic parents, and those kids deserve protection too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

NP
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

It is true that transgender youth are more likely to commit suicide. Considering that dysmorphia is often enough comorbid with a bunch of other stuff, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21671938/, causality is far from clear. BTW do you really think the Trevor project came into this analysis trying to find the answer, in a spirit of scientific inquiry? Or maybe do you think you should interpret their study through the lens of understanding they are advocates for a position.

This "but they'll commit suicide" argument -- maybe it's true, but the evidence is not speaking loudly, if at all. Could even be the other way, that encouraging transitions leads to more suicides. Given the lack of careful causal analysis in this literature, we'll probably never know. That argument certainly does grab attention though.

BTW do you think people really "want these kids to be in danger"? I expect most believe (rightly) that gender dysmorphia is mostly a fad and that a return to common sense in the schools will do more good than harm for kids. I think you're turning your opponents into monsters to make yourself feel more righteous. They're not.

You can’t just muse about the cause of suicides. Parental and community support of gender identity significantly reduces suicide rates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7578185/

First, that’s a study of young transwomen, when the majority of the trans-identifying teenagers now are young trans men. It’s also from 2015 and earlier, which at seven years ago is not the same cohort as teenagers today. Read some detransition stories. Medicalization of young people who identify as trans happens at a never-before-seen level now.

Oh boy.

1. I just linked to the first article I liked on. Yes one study is just one study but if you actually really and truly wanted to understand the impacts of refusing to support a child who says they are gender nonconforming, you can look at a few more studies.

2. Explain to me how the bolded is relevant. This conversation is about pronouns, names, and facilities in schools. Not medical anything. The biggest "concern" anti-trans people have right now are kids who were assigned female at birth identifying as nonbinary and that almost never involves anything medical. Bringing it up is typically just a scare tactic.

3. Detransition is an issue that deserves attention and validation. Lots of trans people will be the first to tell you that. But that is also irrelevant to the issue of which pronouns and names teachers use.

+1 to all of this

These people do not argue with facts. They argue with feelings and their view of common sense. See the first long post from a Youngkin supporter on page 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would want to know if my kid was, say, throwing away all her lunch at school and not eating, because this would be a sign of an eating disorder. I’d want to know if my kid was being bullied or being a bully to someone else. Why can’t I also know if my kid is demanding to be called a different name and pronouns at school as well? It’s wrong to keep this information from parents when kids spend a lot of their waking hours at school. It’s still a parenting issue, not just a schools issue.

I hope you see that the order is MUCH more than that, but the answer is obvious: trans kids get abused by their parents all the time when they find out. Look at the stats; they are horrifying. A absurd number of trans kids wind up homeless. Many teachers want those kids to feel safe around them.

Yep. When my friend came out to his parents his dad beat him. They sent him to one of those conversion camps where they made him watch gay porn and shocked him. They burned any childhood toys he kept. Those of us at school knew he was suicidal but got him through, especially with support from our drama teacher. He has explicitly said that she saved his life.

Was he trans or gay? Because those are two different things.

Out as gay when we were teens, came out as trans after college. Very successful engineer today, completely NC with his parents.

[Anonymous]

Hope the kids protest!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would want to know if my kid was, say, throwing away all her lunch at school and not eating, because this would be a sign of an eating disorder. I’d want to know if my kid was being bullied or being a bully to someone else. Why can’t I also know if my kid is demanding to be called a different name and pronouns at school as well? It’s wrong to keep this information from parents when kids spend a lot of their waking hours at school. It’s still a parenting issue, not just a schools issue.

I hope you see that the order is MUCH more than that, but the answer is obvious: trans kids get abused by their parents all the time when they find out. Look at the stats; they are horrifying. A absurd number of trans kids wind up homeless. Many teachers want those kids to feel safe around them.

+1, teachers can protect children as well, it literally part of our job. Some parents are closed-minded A$$HOLES, why would I encourage student harm/fear? The kids who want their parents to know have already told them. If your child is trans and you don’t know, then your child is afraid of you.

Tweens/teens are weird and irrational and keep all kinds of stuff from their parents. Doesn’t mean they have a bad home life.