Zelensky can’t be trusted - Tom Friedman, NYT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I hope you remember that during WWII, America and Great Britain were very distrustful of General Charles de Gaulle, french leader, because he came from the military, and they were afraid he might become the next dictator if he ascended to power.

It turns out he was a hero, became President, understood the Algerian war was an atrocity when others in France did not, and stepped down from the Presidency without a whiff of dictatorship tendencies.

Point being - sometimes mistrust is not actually indicative of anything.

It doesn’t matter if he’s a saint if Western Europe cannot stomach the costs of supporting this.

If Americans were facing the nat gas and electric costs that are prevailing in europe, this war would already by over

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No matter what you think of the merits or strategic aims, Western Europe cannot last the winter.

The “strengthened” nato alliance is at maximum strength - now it will weaken as governments collapse under public demands.

If you are not in contact with friends in Europe about what they are facing in terms of household budgeting, you won’t “get” what is going on.

It is time to end this war abs allow “free Ukraine” into the EU. This is an honorable abs in some ways desirable outcome for Ukraine and can keep NATO intact.

Baltics are protected by NATO treaty obligations.

Whatever you say comrade. Just a hint, the pointless line breaks are a giveaway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No matter what you think of the merits or strategic aims, Western Europe cannot last the winter.

The “strengthened” nato alliance is at maximum strength - now it will weaken as governments collapse under public demands.

If you are not in contact with friends in Europe about what they are facing in terms of household budgeting, you won’t “get” what is going on.

It is time to end this war abs allow “free Ukraine” into the EU. This is an honorable abs in some ways desirable outcome for Ukraine and can keep NATO intact.

Baltics are protected by NATO treaty obligations.

Whatever you say comrade. Just a hint, the pointless line breaks are a giveaway

Please respond to the points I made. I am a natural born American; i am no one’s comrade, thanks.

[Anonymous]

I mean, this isn’t news. Zelensky could never be trusted. He is boilerplate Ukrainian politician. Russians, Ukrainians, same thing basically. Question is why is it now OK in the safe space that is the NY Times to say this? Who wanted China’s western lapdog to say this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't stand Friedman, but good. Seeing the excuses made for and the willful inability to call dysfunction for what it is as it relates to Ukraine's power elite has been tiresome. They're renowned for venality to the point that I consider it to be an aspect of their national character. Russia is in heel with them on that aspect of their political life... but LOL at any idea that Ukraine doesn't have massive internal structural problems. Hauling in NGO's to shoehorn "democracy" into their public life isn't going to fix these corrupt impulses and attitudes, either.

Totally ignoring the fact that Zelenskyy ran as a political outsider on an anti-corruption platform sticking his thumb in the eye of the power elite, and was making many changes to fix these problems before Ukraine was attacked by Russia. And I believe part of why Russia attacked was because they saw their remaining influence with the power elite waning due to those changes.

LOL you're so gullible. He was becoming more corrupt and authoritarian as he stayed in power, not less. He was shutting down opposition media and deposing opposition figures way before the war. Ukraine was called the most corrupt nation in Europe before the war, with massive issues in authoritarianism, right wing extremism and violence. But now that they are at war with Russia, the designated villain of the piece, it's suddenly a narrative of a small brave democratic pro-Western nation fighting an evil totalitarian behemoth. You're asked to swallow this piece of dreck wholesale and if you question any part of it, you're a Russian apologist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't stand Friedman, but good. Seeing the excuses made for and the willful inability to call dysfunction for what it is as it relates to Ukraine's power elite has been tiresome. They're renowned for venality to the point that I consider it to be an aspect of their national character. Russia is in heel with them on that aspect of their political life... but LOL at any idea that Ukraine doesn't have massive internal structural problems. Hauling in NGO's to shoehorn "democracy" into their public life isn't going to fix these corrupt impulses and attitudes, either.

We've supported worse in proxy wars. As long as they're killing Russians, there is no reason not to arm them

You're living proof that the West wants to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. You say they are killing Russians but it's not like the body count isn't growing on their end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I hope you remember that during WWII, America and Great Britain were very distrustful of General Charles de Gaulle, french leader, because he came from the military, and they were afraid he might become the next dictator if he ascended to power.

It turns out he was a hero, became President, understood the Algerian war was an atrocity when others in France did not, and stepped down from the Presidency without a whiff of dictatorship tendencies.

Point being - sometimes mistrust is not actually indicative of anything.

Zelensky has been becoming more dictatorial not less.

Ukraine is deeply divided and has always been. Eastern Ukraine never supported the Maidan movement and was angry with being force-fed its views and policies. You've been told is a democratic revolution whatever but you've never been told how much violence it unleashed. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Just more Russian propaganda licked up by the subservient conservatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just more Russian propaganda licked up by the subservient conservatives.

+1
Sickening

[Anonymous]

Ukraine has always had issues with human rights. To pain the picture that they are innocent martyrs is ridiculous. Then to do a vogue cover and have a nice lunch on mother's day with Dr. Jill? It all seems so contrived (and I am not some conspiracy nut)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

Ukrainians don’t get a say to be honest. That is the nature of Slavic history.

There was a strategic opening, america took it.

Trust me, if europe was more economically risilient, pumping 30-50 billion a year in arms to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan right on the doorstep of Russia is a HUGE geostrategic win and cost effective.

We could do it indefinitely and use Ukraine as sandpaper to shave down russia slowly, methodically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ukraine has always had issues with human rights. To pain the picture that they are innocent martyrs is ridiculous. Then to do a vogue cover and have a nice lunch on mother's day with Dr. Jill? It all seems so contrived (and I am not some conspiracy nut)

Uh, Russia is not bombing and killing innocent civilians, and committing war crimes by showing the video of the castration of a Ukrainian POW, because of Ukraine's problems with humam rights. So Ukraine is innocent in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

Ukrainians don’t get a say to be honest. That is the nature of Slavic history.

There was a strategic opening, america took it.

Trust me, if europe was more economically risilient, pumping 30-50 billion a year in arms to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan right on the doorstep of Russia is a HUGE geostrategic win and cost effective.

We could do it indefinitely and use Ukraine as sandpaper to shave down russia slowly, methodically.

But Europe is not able to contine

[Anonymous]

It’s hot outside.
No need to put the brakes on at this time.