Taking away the car

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother took away her mother's car and my father took away his father's car. In both cases, my grandparents were belligerent about this issue with their respective child until their dying days. They never let it go and brought it up at every opportunity.

DH took away his Dad's car after some mystery dents and a fall that put him in assisted living. He talked about it for 3 or 4 years but less angrily than my grandparents. Now that dementia has him, we don't hear about it anymore.

This is yet another thankless elder care task you have to manage. Stay strong!

This seems like such a massive issue, and there needs to be a better way to go about it. It should be easier to report ones relative to the DMV, or have the doctor coordinate with them. It should not be this terrible, long lasting battle between parent and child. Why is there no process for this in our society? It is literally a life and death issue

Blame the AARP.

[Anonymous]

OP, I had "the talk" with my parents and asked for their keys. When they refused, my brother disconnected their car battery.

Op, in your case, let her rant. Or accept however much ranting you want, and refuse to hear more. You leave. You hang up the phone.

In my folks case, years after the above incident and they hadn't driven in years -- they still were talking to anyone who would listen that they would be driving to Florida.

When elders are irrational, rational people shouldn't give their objections any attention.

[Anonymous]

It’s time to take away the car keys and sell the car.

[Anonymous]

We offered my MIL the opportunity to gift her only grandchild her car. My parents are very well off and my MIL was *thrilled* to show them up with a big ticket item like a first car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s time to take away the car keys and sell the car.

That works if you have POA and can sell the car. It works if your parent lacks the cognitive ability to replace the keys. But people can be unsafe drivers and still call AAA or a locksmith.

I am so tired of "take away the keys." That's not actually going to work in a lot of cases.

[Anonymous]

This is such a difficult situation and there is no easy answer or fix. Yes, you need to take access of the car away, but that doesn’t fix the perseveration and anger and frustration. The car is the focus of the frustration and anger, but it is also an expression of the disease. Many people with dementia experience anger and frustration, so even if they accept not being able to drive, they may find something else to be angry and frustrated about.

I went through something similar with my dad experiencing dementia and ended taking his car. For awhile the majority of our conversations were about having to go get his car. We were very worried that he would leave to try to find the car. I worked with his doctors to find a medication to help with the agitation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have her doctor send a letter to the DMV.

Wow, nice way to shame and take away someone's dignity.

My mom was in a head on collision because someone had a seizure and crossed the double yellow line...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who "take away the car" or "take away the keys"--how do you literally do it?

My Dad keeps his car in a locked garage--so I can't just do something to disable it.

No matter how many times I say "Dad, give me they keys!" he would not hand them over. I would literally have to physically assault him to the point he was unconcious and steal them.

My Dad absolutely would press charges if I did either of those...
So I'd end up in prison and he'd just buy another car.

Can you be sneaky and disappear the keys? Replace the key with a decoy?

[Anonymous]

In NZ you have to have a road test/medical certificate at 75 & 80 then every two years after that. The fear of the road test forces the issue for many seniors.

[Anonymous]

Even better...my dad is an uber driver. Can hardly walk in general, falls frequently, and spent a week in the hospital when the prognosis was death...and when he could leave the doctor said he could uber drive undermining my and my sibling's advice to our dad that he needs to stop driving. He also has a very chronic medical condition, that is life-threatening and noticeable. His car smells like urine because he can't get out to use the bathroom when he's on the road. Very scary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster, new perspective.

A lot of the “solutions” offered here didn’t really catch the OP’s question.

OP, my take is that your Mom is dealing with early-stage mortality denial. As in, she knows she’s gonna die – OK, that stinks – but first you’re gonna take away her independence. She can’t blame you for the first thing, but she sure can blame you for the second. (Meanwhile, you’re just trying to keep her and others safe.)

So I suggest you try to move the mental pieces around so that it’s not your Mom vs you, but rather you and your Mom vs the situation. She knows she can’t get insurance. She knows why too – just doesn’t want to face it. Sympathize – not because the situation’s unjust – but because it’s pretty traumatic for her. “I know Mom, that must be so frustrating.” Let her vent. Listen. See where you might help her save face.

I urge everybody to understand that “taking away the carkeys” is a terrifying rite of passage for some folks. Be tactful and kind. You’ll want the same when it’s your turn.

Thank you pp. (OP here.) You definitely picked up on my primary concern. And we have been doing exactly as you advised. I listen to the venting - sometimes for hours a week - and her frustration. I am sympathetic and repeat over and over that I understand how hard this is for her. But she keeps saying things like, "I would only drive in the day time. I would only go two blocks," etc., etc., as she keeps trying to convince me to tell my siblings to let her drive. The more I affirm her POV without also promising to help her convince the others, the more hysterical she gets. She just gets madder and madder when I say I understand her feelings.

We arranged for her to see a therapist, but she turned it around on us and says the therapist says we just don't understand her, that the therapist says she's a safer driver than the teens in the family, etc. The therapist is part of a palliative care team so I highly doubt she is actually saying mom should drive, but mom also interprets the therapist's empathy as meaning she's on her side and that we're all terrible and abusive children. This week mom even told me she hid the POA because her attorney told her not to trust us. (We all have copies. And the attorney would not say this.)

Honestly, it's at the point where I no longer want to call or see her because every time I pick up the phone it's like getting blasted with a fire hydrant of anger and recrimination. Even the simplest conversation about arranging to bring over her groceries ends up in her screaming at me about the car.

And yes, I know where it's coming from. Loss of independence. Impending death. Her breast cancer may be back. That's absolutely got her in a twist - as it would anyone. Maybe I just have to accept that she's going to spend the last years of her life screaming at us. It's just so hard because I know the end is close and I want to want to be with her during these last days/weeks/months.

She sounds as if she's in the angry phase of dementia, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster, new perspective.

A lot of the “solutions” offered here didn’t really catch the OP’s question.

OP, my take is that your Mom is dealing with early-stage mortality denial. As in, she knows she’s gonna die – OK, that stinks – but first you’re gonna take away her independence. She can’t blame you for the first thing, but she sure can blame you for the second. (Meanwhile, you’re just trying to keep her and others safe.)

So I suggest you try to move the mental pieces around so that it’s not your Mom vs you, but rather you and your Mom vs the situation. She knows she can’t get insurance. She knows why too – just doesn’t want to face it. Sympathize – not because the situation’s unjust – but because it’s pretty traumatic for her. “I know Mom, that must be so frustrating.” Let her vent. Listen. See where you might help her save face.

I urge everybody to understand that “taking away the carkeys” is a terrifying rite of passage for some folks. Be tactful and kind. You’ll want the same when it’s your turn.

Thank you pp. (OP here.) You definitely picked up on my primary concern. And we have been doing exactly as you advised. I listen to the venting - sometimes for hours a week - and her frustration. I am sympathetic and repeat over and over that I understand how hard this is for her. But she keeps saying things like, "I would only drive in the day time. I would only go two blocks," etc., etc., as she keeps trying to convince me to tell my siblings to let her drive. The more I affirm her POV without also promising to help her convince the others, the more hysterical she gets. She just gets madder and madder when I say I understand her feelings.

We arranged for her to see a therapist, but she turned it around on us and says the therapist says we just don't understand her, that the therapist says she's a safer driver than the teens in the family, etc. The therapist is part of a palliative care team so I highly doubt she is actually saying mom should drive, but mom also interprets the therapist's empathy as meaning she's on her side and that we're all terrible and abusive children. This week mom even told me she hid the POA because her attorney told her not to trust us. (We all have copies. And the attorney would not say this.)

Honestly, it's at the point where I no longer want to call or see her because every time I pick up the phone it's like getting blasted with a fire hydrant of anger and recrimination. Even the simplest conversation about arranging to bring over her groceries ends up in her screaming at me about the car.

And yes, I know where it's coming from. Loss of independence. Impending death. Her breast cancer may be back. That's absolutely got her in a twist - as it would anyone. Maybe I just have to accept that she's going to spend the last years of her life screaming at us. It's just so hard because I know the end is close and I want to want to be with her during these last days/weeks/months.

She sounds as if she's in the angry phase of dementia, actually.

OP here. Wow. Old thread revived. But, we do have updates.

Yes. I agree she's got dementia. We've tried to have her evaluated but she keeps passing the tests with her PCP. A few months ago I sent some info on how to get a more thorough dementia evaluation to my sister, who lives near mom and handles most of her care. She was thankful but mom has resisted and won't attend the appointment.

Even worse, mom's nastiness finally wore my sister down. She helped her get her insurance. Mom is driving again. She has been out twice. She said the first time was fine but the second was terrible. (She would not say more.) She has not driven since the second, terrible outing. I hope she is finally letting it go but nothing I can do if my siblings won't stand firm with me.

I was able to convince mom to try some antidepressants, which I hope will help us all.

[Anonymous]

OP, in the end it is not about your mother's feelings, it is about safety for others on the road. My MIL actually killed a man: literally, ran him over. She was in her 90s and had refused to stop driving. Better to take away the keys or disable the car than have that happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster, new perspective.

A lot of the “solutions” offered here didn’t really catch the OP’s question.

OP, my take is that your Mom is dealing with early-stage mortality denial. As in, she knows she’s gonna die – OK, that stinks – but first you’re gonna take away her independence. She can’t blame you for the first thing, but she sure can blame you for the second. (Meanwhile, you’re just trying to keep her and others safe.)

So I suggest you try to move the mental pieces around so that it’s not your Mom vs you, but rather you and your Mom vs the situation. She knows she can’t get insurance. She knows why too – just doesn’t want to face it. Sympathize – not because the situation’s unjust – but because it’s pretty traumatic for her. “I know Mom, that must be so frustrating.” Let her vent. Listen. See where you might help her save face.

I urge everybody to understand that “taking away the carkeys” is a terrifying rite of passage for some folks. Be tactful and kind. You’ll want the same when it’s your turn.

Thank you pp. (OP here.) You definitely picked up on my primary concern. And we have been doing exactly as you advised. I listen to the venting - sometimes for hours a week - and her frustration. I am sympathetic and repeat over and over that I understand how hard this is for her. But she keeps saying things like, "I would only drive in the day time. I would only go two blocks," etc., etc., as she keeps trying to convince me to tell my siblings to let her drive. The more I affirm her POV without also promising to help her convince the others, the more hysterical she gets. She just gets madder and madder when I say I understand her feelings.

We arranged for her to see a therapist, but she turned it around on us and says the therapist says we just don't understand her, that the therapist says she's a safer driver than the teens in the family, etc. The therapist is part of a palliative care team so I highly doubt she is actually saying mom should drive, but mom also interprets the therapist's empathy as meaning she's on her side and that we're all terrible and abusive children. This week mom even told me she hid the POA because her attorney told her not to trust us. (We all have copies. And the attorney would not say this.)

Honestly, it's at the point where I no longer want to call or see her because every time I pick up the phone it's like getting blasted with a fire hydrant of anger and recrimination. Even the simplest conversation about arranging to bring over her groceries ends up in her screaming at me about the car.

And yes, I know where it's coming from. Loss of independence. Impending death. Her breast cancer may be back. That's absolutely got her in a twist - as it would anyone. Maybe I just have to accept that she's going to spend the last years of her life screaming at us. It's just so hard because I know the end is close and I want to want to be with her during these last days/weeks/months.

She sounds as if she's in the angry phase of dementia, actually.

OP here. Wow. Old thread revived. But, we do have updates.

Yes. I agree she's got dementia. We've tried to have her evaluated but she keeps passing the tests with her PCP. A few months ago I sent some info on how to get a more thorough dementia evaluation to my sister, who lives near mom and handles most of her care. She was thankful but mom has resisted and won't attend the appointment.

Even worse, mom's nastiness finally wore my sister down. She helped her get her insurance. Mom is driving again. She has been out twice. She said the first time was fine but the second was terrible. (She would not say more.) She has not driven since the second, terrible outing. I hope she is finally letting it go but nothing I can do if my siblings won't stand firm with me.

I was able to convince mom to try some antidepressants, which I hope will help us all.

rat her out to the insurance company?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, in the end it is not about your mother's feelings, it is about safety for others on the road. My MIL actually killed a man: literally, ran him over. She was in her 90s and had refused to stop driving. Better to take away the keys or disable the car than have that happen.

OP here. I agree 100%. I am as aware of the dangers as any sensible person would be. But there is little I can do if my sister fixes the car and gives her back the keys, which is what is now happening. I am looking into seeing if it is possible to report her anonymously to the DMV.