Brian Flores lawsuit alleging racism in NFL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids went to jail during the NYC point shaving scandals. Ross bribing a coach to throw games is not nothing

Could you give a cite on this? I'd like to read about it

https://www.wbur.org/onlyagame/2020/04/03/city-college-of-new-york-basketball-scandal

Got anything more recent than 1951?

Pete Rose comes to mind.

[Anonymous]

It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Late to the story here and I don't know the names well enough to understand BB's texts. Can someone explain; is this a smoking gun?

It does seem to be. The NFL has what's called the Rooney Rule, which requires teams to interview minority candidates for head coaching and other senior football operations positions. Belichick and Brian Flores worked together at the Patriots for years and reportedly have stayed in touch since Flores left for a head coaching job with the Dolphins. Flores, who is black, was one of the candidates to be interviewed for the head coach position with the Giants last month. On January 24, a few days before Flores's January 27th interview with the Giants, Belichick texted Flores congratulations for landing the head coach position with the Giants. When Flores texted back confused, Belichik realized he had texted the wrong Brian. He meant to text Brian Daboll, a former offensive coordinator who also happens to be white, and not Brian Flores. Flores went to his interview on the 27th anyway. The Giants put him through the full process (which is intensive), and then announced the very next day that they had hired Brian Daboll as their new head coach. Given that those contracts are not worked out in a just a couple of hours, this most likely means the Giants had already quietly offered Daboll the job before they even interviewed Flores. The obvious conclusion is that the Giants never seriously considered Flores as a candidate for the head coaching job, and only put on the whole production of interviewing him to give the appearance of satisfying the Rooney Rule when in practice they were completely disregarding it.

Separate and apart from whether the NFL has a problem with head coaches of color, which it does, the Giants did satisfy the Rooney Rule. The rule, as I understand it, only requires that minority coaches be interviewed. That's it. And he was.

Now, the Giants likely violated the spirit of the rule. But it's such a toothless requirement, it's easy to check the box and move on. Teams have been doing it for years.

Rather than showing a violation of the Rooney Rule, this episode brings into stark relief what a farce it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I am not trying to diminish the racial discrimination angle by bringing up the gambling stuff. But the gambling stuff is a BFD and could compromise the integrity of the whole league. It’s amazing that Ross treated Flores so badly when Flores had all this dirt on him - the throwing games and the tampering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

Brian Flores!

Eric Bieniemy is another good example. Offensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs when they won the Super Bowl, with the NFL's top-ranked offense for 2018 and the 5th ranked offense for 2019. Given how the strongly the league prefers offensive coordinators for head coaching positions (which is a whole separate issue), Bieniemy should have been a shoo-in for a head coaching position in 2020, but five teams passed on him.

Why is that an issue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Late to the story here and I don't know the names well enough to understand BB's texts. Can someone explain; is this a smoking gun?

It does seem to be. The NFL has what's called the Rooney Rule, which requires teams to interview minority candidates for head coaching and other senior football operations positions. Belichick and Brian Flores worked together at the Patriots for years and reportedly have stayed in touch since Flores left for a head coaching job with the Dolphins. Flores, who is black, was one of the candidates to be interviewed for the head coach position with the Giants last month. On January 24, a few days before Flores's January 27th interview with the Giants, Belichick texted Flores congratulations for landing the head coach position with the Giants. When Flores texted back confused, Belichik realized he had texted the wrong Brian. He meant to text Brian Daboll, a former offensive coordinator who also happens to be white, and not Brian Flores. Flores went to his interview on the 27th anyway. The Giants put him through the full process (which is intensive), and then announced the very next day that they had hired Brian Daboll as their new head coach. Given that those contracts are not worked out in a just a couple of hours, this most likely means the Giants had already quietly offered Daboll the job before they even interviewed Flores. The obvious conclusion is that the Giants never seriously considered Flores as a candidate for the head coaching job, and only put on the whole production of interviewing him to give the appearance of satisfying the Rooney Rule when in practice they were completely disregarding it.

Separate and apart from whether the NFL has a problem with head coaches of color, which it does, the Giants did satisfy the Rooney Rule. The rule, as I understand it, only requires that minority coaches be interviewed. That's it. And he was.

Now, the Giants likely violated the spirit of the rule. But it's such a toothless requirement, it's easy to check the box and move on. Teams have been doing it for years.

Rather than showing a violation of the Rooney Rule, this episode brings into stark relief what a farce it is.

AYFKM? The obvious intent of the Rooney Rule was that interviewed candidates be seriously considered, not that they be signed on for token compliance. Setting aside the Rooney Rule itself, deciding to interview a minority candidate you do not intend to consider for the job simply because of their skin color is overtly discriminatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I am not trying to diminish the racial discrimination angle by bringing up the gambling stuff. But the gambling stuff is a BFD and could compromise the integrity of the whole league. It’s amazing that Ross treated Flores so badly when Flores had all this dirt on him - the throwing games and the tampering.

The gambling stuff has nothing to do with Flores' suit. You are just derailing the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I'm not doing that, but rather commenting on the merits of the lawsuit. Two different things.
If the Rooney Rule was violated, it's Roger Goodell's job to take action - it's just a league rule. It doesn't come close to proving unlawful racial discrimination.
Now if Flores and his lawyers are firing a warning shot at the NFL owners, fine. Perhaps that's overdue. But I don't see that hiring Daboll over Flores comes close to proving racial discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33194862/brian-flores-sues-nfl-others-former-miami-dolphins-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

Seems like the fix was in for the NYG job - wonder if Belichick texted him on purpose, knowing it was a sham?

John Elway doesn't look too good, either.

Not sure how the league can claim there's no racism when only one coach is Black in a league where 70% of the players are Black.

What? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Owners want winners. Players and coaches are two different things. Give me the name of a bankable black coach and I'm sure he'd have a great shot at getting hired. This isn't affirmative action like college or government employment.

Brian Flores!

Eric Bieniemy is another good example. Offensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs when they won the Super Bowl, with the NFL's top-ranked offense for 2018 and the 5th ranked offense for 2019. Given how the strongly the league prefers offensive coordinators for head coaching positions (which is a whole separate issue), Bieniemy should have been a shoo-in for a head coaching position in 2020, but five teams passed on him.

Why is that an issue?

Black people who have made it into the coaching ranks tend to be disproportionately hired into the defensive coaching ranks, while white people are disproportionately hired into the offensive coaching ranks. There is no statistical evidence to support that offensive coordinators make better head coaches than defensive coordinators, and yet that's where the head coaches tend to come from. Whether racism is a driver of that or its a disparate impact is something that can be debated, but it is a factor in why there are so few black head coaches in the NFL.

[Anonymous]

Was Flores 24-25 with Miami? Maybe time for a new head coach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I'm not doing that, but rather commenting on the merits of the lawsuit. Two different things.
If the Rooney Rule was violated, it's Roger Goodell's job to take action - it's just a league rule. It doesn't come close to proving unlawful racial discrimination.
Now if Flores and his lawyers are firing a warning shot at the NFL owners, fine. Perhaps that's overdue. But I don't see that hiring Daboll over Flores comes close to proving racial discrimination.

If the only reason the Giants invited Flores to interview was because he is a racial minority and not because they had any intention of seriously considering him for the job, that is absolutely racial discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I'm not doing that, but rather commenting on the merits of the lawsuit. Two different things.
If the Rooney Rule was violated, it's Roger Goodell's job to take action - it's just a league rule. It doesn't come close to proving unlawful racial discrimination.
Now if Flores and his lawyers are firing a warning shot at the NFL owners, fine. Perhaps that's overdue. But I don't see that hiring Daboll over Flores comes close to proving racial discrimination.

If the only reason the Giants invited Flores to interview was because he is a racial minority and not because they had any intention of seriously considering him for the job, that is absolutely racial discrimination.

well, we're going to have to disagree here. It is a violation of a league rule. And why? Because they wanted Daboll instead of Flores. Is that racial discrimination?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Late to the story here and I don't know the names well enough to understand BB's texts. Can someone explain; is this a smoking gun?

It does seem to be. The NFL has what's called the Rooney Rule, which requires teams to interview minority candidates for head coaching and other senior football operations positions. Belichick and Brian Flores worked together at the Patriots for years and reportedly have stayed in touch since Flores left for a head coaching job with the Dolphins. Flores, who is black, was one of the candidates to be interviewed for the head coach position with the Giants last month. On January 24, a few days before Flores's January 27th interview with the Giants, Belichick texted Flores congratulations for landing the head coach position with the Giants. When Flores texted back confused, Belichik realized he had texted the wrong Brian. He meant to text Brian Daboll, a former offensive coordinator who also happens to be white, and not Brian Flores. Flores went to his interview on the 27th anyway. The Giants put him through the full process (which is intensive), and then announced the very next day that they had hired Brian Daboll as their new head coach. Given that those contracts are not worked out in a just a couple of hours, this most likely means the Giants had already quietly offered Daboll the job before they even interviewed Flores. The obvious conclusion is that the Giants never seriously considered Flores as a candidate for the head coaching job, and only put on the whole production of interviewing him to give the appearance of satisfying the Rooney Rule when in practice they were completely disregarding it.

Separate and apart from whether the NFL has a problem with head coaches of color, which it does, the Giants did satisfy the Rooney Rule. The rule, as I understand it, only requires that minority coaches be interviewed. That's it. And he was.

Now, the Giants likely violated the spirit of the rule. But it's such a toothless requirement, it's easy to check the box and move on. Teams have been doing it for years.

Rather than showing a violation of the Rooney Rule, this episode brings into stark relief what a farce it is.

AYFKM? The obvious intent of the Rooney Rule was that interviewed candidates be seriously considered, not that they be signed on for token compliance. Setting aside the Rooney Rule itself, deciding to interview a minority candidate you do not intend to consider for the job simply because of their skin color is overtly discriminatory.

I'm not sure what's difficult to understand. You said it yourself - the "intent" of the Rooney Rule was violated, not the rule itself.

As far as "deciding to interview a minority candidate you do not intend to consider for the job simply because of their skin color is overtly discriminatory," that's simply not the case. The RR *requires* teams to interview minority candidates. It doesn't require those candidates to be seriously considered, it requires an interview. You are saying that the team committed "overt discrimination" because they complied with the Rooney Rule - interviewed a minority candidate.

Look, as I said, the NFL obviously has a serious problem with the lack of minority head coaches. But tying this discussion to the Rooney Rule is both incorrect (because the team did satisfy it) and a tactical mistake (because the rule is a joke, and easy to satisfy. ).

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's any surprise that Ross is corrupt AF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is truly amazing the lengths some people are going in this thread to deny that there is any racial discrimination in this NFL. And those of you trying to make the discussion about gambling instead of racism are complicit in that.

I'm not doing that, but rather commenting on the merits of the lawsuit. Two different things.
If the Rooney Rule was violated, it's Roger Goodell's job to take action - it's just a league rule. It doesn't come close to proving unlawful racial discrimination.
Now if Flores and his lawyers are firing a warning shot at the NFL owners, fine. Perhaps that's overdue. But I don't see that hiring Daboll over Flores comes close to proving racial discrimination.

If the only reason the Giants invited Flores to interview was because he is a racial minority and not because they had any intention of seriously considering him for the job, that is absolutely racial discrimination.

You keep saying that, and I'm not aware of any legal support for it. I'm happy to reconsider if you can provide some.