Return of real estate to descendants of Black landowners/freeman : CA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They also did it to Asians in the West.

See the Truckee Method and Japanese Internment.

We can keep going down this rabbit hole. Let's just cut a check to everyone for a million dollars at this rate.

Japanese interned were compensated to some degree in the 1980s.

Not for their land.

Let's all get reparations. Then we can all pay off native Americans who got their lands stolen and were oppressed more than any other group.

true, but the AA family didn't get cash, either.

What's the big deal that LA did this for one family. Did they ask you to give up your land to do this?

I used to live around that area, and that property is seriously some property.

I read about how families build wealth through generations, like Mitch McConnell's family, who used to own slaves and a plantation. They became prosperous and sent their descendants went to ivy leagues schools which builds more wealth. So, although MM didn't own slaves, he is a recipient of the privilege life afforded him on the backs of slaves.

Think about all the AA families who lost their livelihoods in the Tulsa massacre. How different their descendant's lives could have been if a bunch of racist people backed by the cops hadn't destroyed their lives.

It's an interesting theory. Let's measure it against white Tulsans/Oklahomans. How many are swimming in wealth? Not that many. I imagine the upcoming Great Depression/Dust Bowl would have wiped out most of any prosperity, as happened to many Oklahomans.

I know in my own family tree there are people who have gone on to greater prosperity while others have gone down in the world, despite sharing common ancestors and ostensibly the same access to resources. The idea that you'd be sitting pretty a millionaire "if only" is very difficult to prove given few people of any race are millionaires. Most people plod on in various degrees of middle class status, and this does include the majority of present day African Americans. They may not be rich, but they may not be poor either.

we'll never know, but we do know that typically, families can move up in the SES ladder due to generational wealth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Real talk. What portion of the responsibilities do African Americans and their Ancestors have for being pushovers for the previous 500 years or so? While evil actions are not defensible, being an easy target makes evil pretty predictable. Every single weak society in human history has been exploited, assimilated and had their stuff taken and this is not a uniquely black problem. It seems a little disingenuous to ask for a mulligan like the whole world wasn’t/isn’t exploiting Africa and AAs would all be Ivy League millionaire if they were simply treated nicer. For perspective how many African Americans wish they had been born in Africa? If you proud to be an American then how much was the tragedy of the past simply part of the price of the future? There is no perfect history and no promise of tranquility, human history is brutal.

This is where folks need to understand history. Abraham Lincoln actually tried to get Black folks to move back to Africa. There was a commission formed at that time to figure out how to do it. The few Black "leaders" at the time didn't want to this effort to move forward but there were plenty of white leaders that wanted it to happen. Short reason is that Black folks actually have been the strongest believers in the promise of this country. Our role in this society is not to be the weakest, because we are not. Every Black person you see is a survivor. Our role is to make sure America lives up to what it promises. I don't know if you've paid attention to the last few years, but America does not live up to its creed and promises. Facing the past, knowing the hidden histories of all minority (soon to be majority groups) is actually really important. Other countries have been able taken on truth and reconciliation.

My other comment is why do white folks have to make everything a competition and throw in other groups - Asians, Irish, Japanese etc. The thread was about Black people so that's what we were talking about. The bottom line is that this country has invested in othering Black and brown people from anywhere and everywhere and wronging those people with actual laws and policies. If you aren't on board with fixing it fine, but don't continue to perpetuate stereotypes and incite division.

I’m not saying it’s right, but I think White folks are trying to do the opposite of othering Black and brown people. They’re trying to point out that, at different points in history, many of our ancestors experienced displacement and oppression. It’s terrible, but that’s the story of the word from the beginning. And arguably America knows much more about the Black experience than the centuries of violent conflict among different Asian ethnic groups, all the way up to today with the Han and the Uighurs. Again, not saying this is the best way to express the concept, but I believe White folks intend to point out commonalities and shared history rather than isolating non-Whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They also did it to Asians in the West.

See the Truckee Method and Japanese Internment.

We can keep going down this rabbit hole. Let's just cut a check to everyone for a million dollars at this rate.

Japanese interned were compensated to some degree in the 1980s.

Not for their land.

Let's all get reparations. Then we can all pay off native Americans who got their lands stolen and were oppressed more than any other group.

true, but the AA family didn't get cash, either.

What's the big deal that LA did this for one family. Did they ask you to give up your land to do this?

I used to live around that area, and that property is seriously some property.

I read about how families build wealth through generations, like Mitch McConnell's family, who used to own slaves and a plantation. They became prosperous and sent their descendants went to ivy leagues schools which builds more wealth. So, although MM didn't own slaves, he is a recipient of the privilege life afforded him on the backs of slaves.

Think about all the AA families who lost their livelihoods in the Tulsa massacre. How different their descendant's lives could have been if a bunch of racist people backed by the cops hadn't destroyed their lives.

It's an interesting theory. Let's measure it against white Tulsans/Oklahomans. How many are swimming in wealth? Not that many. I imagine the upcoming Great Depression/Dust Bowl would have wiped out most of any prosperity, as happened to many Oklahomans.

I know in my own family tree there are people who have gone on to greater prosperity while others have gone down in the world, despite sharing common ancestors and ostensibly the same access to resources. The idea that you'd be sitting pretty a millionaire "if only" is very difficult to prove given few people of any race are millionaires. Most people plod on in various degrees of middle class status, and this does include the majority of present day African Americans. They may not be rich, but they may not be poor either.

we'll never know, but we do know that typically, families can move up in the SES ladder due to generational wealth.

Is it typical for families to move up in SES? For some, sure. But the wealth gap in this country is widening for Whites too, not just non-Whites. Obviously it’s worse for non-Whites because they were in a worse position from the start, but the White population as a whole has not really been upwardly in this country for the past few decades. Drive an hour outside of any major city, into just about any rural area, and you will find populations who are sympathetic to the plight of the poor of any race, but who are not well off themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They also did it to Asians in the West.

See the Truckee Method and Japanese Internment.

We can keep going down this rabbit hole. Let's just cut a check to everyone for a million dollars at this rate.

Japanese interned were compensated to some degree in the 1980s.

Not for their land.

Let's all get reparations. Then we can all pay off native Americans who got their lands stolen and were oppressed more than any other group.

true, but the AA family didn't get cash, either.

What's the big deal that LA did this for one family. Did they ask you to give up your land to do this?

I used to live around that area, and that property is seriously some property.

I read about how families build wealth through generations, like Mitch McConnell's family, who used to own slaves and a plantation. They became prosperous and sent their descendants went to ivy leagues schools which builds more wealth. So, although MM didn't own slaves, he is a recipient of the privilege life afforded him on the backs of slaves.

Think about all the AA families who lost their livelihoods in the Tulsa massacre. How different their descendant's lives could have been if a bunch of racist people backed by the cops hadn't destroyed their lives.

It's an interesting theory. Let's measure it against white Tulsans/Oklahomans. How many are swimming in wealth? Not that many. I imagine the upcoming Great Depression/Dust Bowl would have wiped out most of any prosperity, as happened to many Oklahomans.

I know in my own family tree there are people who have gone on to greater prosperity while others have gone down in the world, despite sharing common ancestors and ostensibly the same access to resources. The idea that you'd be sitting pretty a millionaire "if only" is very difficult to prove given few people of any race are millionaires. Most people plod on in various degrees of middle class status, and this does include the majority of present day African Americans. They may not be rich, but they may not be poor either.

we'll never know, but we do know that typically, families can move up in the SES ladder due to generational wealth.

Is it typical for families to move up in SES? For some, sure. But the wealth gap in this country is widening for Whites too, not just non-Whites. Obviously it’s worse for non-Whites because they were in a worse position from the start, but the White population as a whole has not really been upwardly in this country for the past few decades. Drive an hour outside of any major city, into just about any rural area, and you will find populations who are sympathetic to the plight of the poor of any race, but who are not well off themselves.

Yes, it is typical to move up with generational wealth.

Just because there are still a lot of poor, white people, it doesn't mean that the statement is not true.

Look at the growth of the upper middle class in 40 years

[Anonymous]

I am surprised reparations have not centered on Jim Crow (segregation, redlining, etc.)

Victims are still alive or their descendants are easily traced.

Much more recent.

More White folks benefitted from this.

Many of the arguments against slavery reparations fall apart or do not apply when it’s Jim Crow reparations .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised reparations have not centered on Jim Crow (segregation, redlining, etc.)

Victims are still alive or their descendants are easily traced.

Much more recent.

More White folks benefitted from this.

Many of the arguments against slavery reparations fall apart or do not apply when it’s Jim Crow reparations .

Probably because there are still judges/clerks/politicians or their protégés that are still influencing policy. For example, it wasn’t until 2019 that Alexandria Va. dismissed criminal charges against 5 Black men who held a peaceful library sit in during August of 1939 to try to desegregate public libraries- 80 years later. The last school to officially desegregate was Cleveland High School in 2016 in Cleveland, Mississippi. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/17/478389720/after-50-year-legal-struggle-mississippi-school-district-ordered-to-desegregate

Everyone knows that “good schools” are generally part of the definition of a great neighborhood in real estate valuations…there are so many aspects of racism that need to be unraveled in this country. Living in the DC “bubble” doesn’t exempt any of us from doing our part to bring awareness to how much work needs to be done in all realms of society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As one who is part native american, looking forward to how this progresses.

Were your ancestors the first to settle their land, or did they take it from another people during the prolonged period of inter-tribal conflict, such as the Comanches and the Apache or Tonkawa?

They were the first. Can we have it back now? It’s millions of acres of what you renamed the Midwest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait until they do the Native Americans.

Real estate in NYC alone is worth prob a trillion dollars. We all gonna pay natives too?

Yes, I would hope so. I believe some Native American groups in the mid-west are trying to get land returned to them which I 100% support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They also did it to Asians in the West.

See the Truckee Method and Japanese Internment.

We can keep going down this rabbit hole. Let's just cut a check to everyone for a million dollars at this rate.

Japanese interned were compensated to some degree in the 1980s.

Not for their land.

Let's all get reparations. Then we can all pay off native Americans who got their lands stolen and were oppressed more than any other group.

true, but the AA family didn't get cash, either.

What's the big deal that LA did this for one family. Did they ask you to give up your land to do this?

I used to live around that area, and that property is seriously some property.

I read about how families build wealth through generations, like Mitch McConnell's family, who used to own slaves and a plantation. They became prosperous and sent their descendants went to ivy leagues schools which builds more wealth. So, although MM didn't own slaves, he is a recipient of the privilege life afforded him on the backs of slaves.

Think about all the AA families who lost their livelihoods in the Tulsa massacre. How different their descendant's lives could have been if a bunch of racist people backed by the cops hadn't destroyed their lives.

It's an interesting theory. Let's measure it against white Tulsans/Oklahomans. How many are swimming in wealth? Not that many. I imagine the upcoming Great Depression/Dust Bowl would have wiped out most of any prosperity, as happened to many Oklahomans.

I know in my own family tree there are people who have gone on to greater prosperity while others have gone down in the world, despite sharing common ancestors and ostensibly the same access to resources. The idea that you'd be sitting pretty a millionaire "if only" is very difficult to prove given few people of any race are millionaires. Most people plod on in various degrees of middle class status, and this does include the majority of present day African Americans. They may not be rich, but they may not be poor either.

This is the biggest problem with the argument that past discrimination caused every problem and poverty today. There is an unrealistic assumption that, if someone somewhere in history, had some money, it would still be there today. In reality, wealth is regularly lost (or, in some cases, gained) over time, and some people in a family never inherit anything in the first place. Basically, this argument looks at only the successful stories and then claims (without any basis in reality) that those stories are the general rule. It is simplistic thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised reparations have not centered on Jim Crow (segregation, redlining, etc.)

Victims are still alive or their descendants are easily traced.

Much more recent.

More White folks benefitted from this.

Many of the arguments against slavery reparations fall apart or do not apply when it’s Jim Crow reparations .

Agree wholeheartedly with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They also did it to Asians in the West.

See the Truckee Method and Japanese Internment.

We can keep going down this rabbit hole. Let's just cut a check to everyone for a million dollars at this rate.

Japanese interned were compensated to some degree in the 1980s.

Not for their land.

Let's all get reparations. Then we can all pay off native Americans who got their lands stolen and were oppressed more than any other group.

true, but the AA family didn't get cash, either.

What's the big deal that LA did this for one family. Did they ask you to give up your land to do this?

I used to live around that area, and that property is seriously some property.

I read about how families build wealth through generations, like Mitch McConnell's family, who used to own slaves and a plantation. They became prosperous and sent their descendants went to ivy leagues schools which builds more wealth. So, although MM didn't own slaves, he is a recipient of the privilege life afforded him on the backs of slaves.

Think about all the AA families who lost their livelihoods in the Tulsa massacre. How different their descendant's lives could have been if a bunch of racist people backed by the cops hadn't destroyed their lives.

It's an interesting theory. Let's measure it against white Tulsans/Oklahomans. How many are swimming in wealth? Not that many. I imagine the upcoming Great Depression/Dust Bowl would have wiped out most of any prosperity, as happened to many Oklahomans.

I know in my own family tree there are people who have gone on to greater prosperity while others have gone down in the world, despite sharing common ancestors and ostensibly the same access to resources. The idea that you'd be sitting pretty a millionaire "if only" is very difficult to prove given few people of any race are millionaires. Most people plod on in various degrees of middle class status, and this does include the majority of present day African Americans. They may not be rich, but they may not be poor either.

Are you really comparing a natural disaster that impacted people of ALL races to a pogrom aimed at one specific race? Shame on you, PP, that is disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the people comparing current reparations to literal ancient history- when you know better, you do better. Black people getting back their stolen property should not make you feel threatened.

I’m Jewish. I want my ancestral homes back that we fled/lost during the Holocaust. Except I understand that is futile and destructive.

There are many, many MANY horrifically wronged people in history. It simply isn’t practical to try to right every historical wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As one who is part native american, looking forward to how this progresses.

Were your ancestors the first to settle their land, or did they take it from another people during the prolonged period of inter-tribal conflict, such as the Comanches and the Apache or Tonkawa?

They were the first. Can we have it back now? It’s millions of acres of what you renamed the Midwest.

Prove it. That's not what genetic record shows.

Also most people are mixed ancestry. If your father was a slave and mom white, why should you get land back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the people comparing current reparations to literal ancient history- when you know better, you do better. Black people getting back their stolen property should not make you feel threatened.

I’m Jewish. I want my ancestral homes back that we fled/lost during the Holocaust. Except I understand that is futile and destructive.

There are many, many MANY horrifically wronged people in history. It simply isn’t practical to try to right every historical wrong.

Well, fight your claim in some East European country, but don't use your story to diminish this one.

They have a legal claim within the US courts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They also did it to Asians in the West.

See the Truckee Method and Japanese Internment.

We can keep going down this rabbit hole. Let's just cut a check to everyone for a million dollars at this rate.

Japanese interned were compensated to some degree in the 1980s.

Not for their land.

Let's all get reparations. Then we can all pay off native Americans who got their lands stolen and were oppressed more than any other group.

true, but the AA family didn't get cash, either.

What's the big deal that LA did this for one family. Did they ask you to give up your land to do this?

I used to live around that area, and that property is seriously some property.

I read about how families build wealth through generations, like Mitch McConnell's family, who used to own slaves and a plantation. They became prosperous and sent their descendants went to ivy leagues schools which builds more wealth. So, although MM didn't own slaves, he is a recipient of the privilege life afforded him on the backs of slaves.

Think about all the AA families who lost their livelihoods in the Tulsa massacre. How different their descendant's lives could have been if a bunch of racist people backed by the cops hadn't destroyed their lives.

It's an interesting theory. Let's measure it against white Tulsans/Oklahomans. How many are swimming in wealth? Not that many. I imagine the upcoming Great Depression/Dust Bowl would have wiped out most of any prosperity, as happened to many Oklahomans.

I know in my own family tree there are people who have gone on to greater prosperity while others have gone down in the world, despite sharing common ancestors and ostensibly the same access to resources. The idea that you'd be sitting pretty a millionaire "if only" is very difficult to prove given few people of any race are millionaires. Most people plod on in various degrees of middle class status, and this does include the majority of present day African Americans. They may not be rich, but they may not be poor either.

Are you really comparing a natural disaster that impacted people of ALL races to a pogrom aimed at one specific race? Shame on you, PP, that is disgusting.

No, I think that the PP is saying that there was a subsequent event that would have wiped out what was there in terms of wealth anyway, which is exactly what happened to other residents of Oklahoma during that period. It goes to the point that the premise that everyone would be wealthy but for past discrimination is fundamentally flawed.