2022 Olympics

[Anonymous]

apparently, Jason has attempted a couple quads. A very rare skater can put together the quad jumps AND the artistry (I think Nathan Chen is the standard for how that is done). There are pretty much jumpers vs artists otherwise.

Jason puts together absolutely beautiful programs. He performs his jumps beautifully, too. He just doesn't have the quad arsenal that the tip top skaters now have.

It is a bit of a shame that we have moved away from the artistry/technique to scoring the tricks much more highly. It is now just an arms race - who can throw the most quads into a program and land them cleanly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:apparently, Jason has attempted a couple quads. A very rare skater can put together the quad jumps AND the artistry (I think Nathan Chen is the standard for how that is done). There are pretty much jumpers vs artists otherwise.

Jason puts together absolutely beautiful programs. He performs his jumps beautifully, too. He just doesn't have the quad arsenal that the tip top skaters now have.

It is a bit of a shame that we have moved away from the artistry/technique to scoring the tricks much more highly. It is now just an arms race - who can throw the most quads into a program and land them cleanly.

I totally agree, but I am in awe of this year’s podium group for their ability to do both. I really do wonder if Hanyu was so nervous about the freeskate 4A attempt that he was mentally off his game? I wonder if he had not trained the 4A and had focused instead on his proven arsenal of jumps, what would the outcome be? He is an artist and a quad king, so it’s sad to me that perhaps his commitment to the 4A overshadowed his ability to focus and control everything else. I would have loved to see him at least make the podium, but maybe after the short program disaster, he just said “my gold medal is now being the first to land a ratified 4A.” So he went for it. And came soooo close!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figure skater Jason Brown is a beautiful skater. Stick to triples. I’d rather watch a well executed, perfect routine with no wobbles, falls, etc. Tired of all the Quadruple stuff that rarely come off smoothly.

That’s what Stars on Ice is for, but the Olympics is meant to push the limits of what is possible. Faster, higher, stronger. Jason is a great skater but he is not the most artistic. I feel his scores reflect fondness for him, but I would have much rather seen Ilia compete at the Olympics.

+1,000

If anything Jason is underscored. As a former skater I have to say that aside from the jumps what Jason does is harder then what everyone else is doing. No one else has his edge quality or his mastery of the blade. We are just in a world now where jumps are so heavily valued and the sport is off balance.

"Aside from the hardest thing to do in his discipline, which he doesn't do, he does very hard things."

This very much has the feel of, "So, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

You can tell who the real skating fans are and who the Olympics-only crowd is. What you’re saying is that the only measure of a good tennis player is his serve, or the only measure of a good golfer is her putting.

Yes, the jumps are the hardest technical element. But that doesn't mean they are the only important elements. Spins, footwork, choreography/artistic expression. All these come together to make a program. That’s why they are all required elements. You literally have to have footwork, spins and choreography to qualify for the free skate. You get that, right?

Thankfully, Jason is not the only artistic skater out there, but man, he is a master of footwork, artistry, flexibility, spins, it's ALL there. And...jumps, too! No, he doesn't have a quad. That's undeniable. And I recognize that he shouldn't be ranked higher than the skaters who DO have quads AND artistry. But what's sad to me is that there are several skaters out there who have quads *and not much else* who place higher than Jason. But luckily, the podium this year had a good mixture of quads AND skating skills. My goodness, Kagiyama was absolutely stunning to watch. Kagiyama FELT the music, and that gave power to his jumps. And obviously Chen is the full package.

What makes Jason's jumps special, in my mind, is how they naturally flow in and out of choreography. With almost every other male skater, it's such a long and obvious setup: also known as "telegraphing" your jumps. Jason is unmatched with jumps coming as a natural extension of the music. That is why the judges reward him: it's not just jumps, he's the whole package. He didn't deserve the podium this time around. But he deserved to represent USA at the Olympics. And he sure did belong in that final group, and his performances are timeless and masterful.

The scoring system values technical jumps over those other elements though. Strategically, if he wanted to win, he'd have to focus more on developing his jumps, since he maxed out on his component scores. But, good for him for maintaining the integrity of his artistry. He skates beautifully, but he had hit his ceiling, which is why a handful of sloppy quads out ranked him. It's a testament to his skill that he came in 6th in the long program without a single quad though. The next skater without a quad was all the way in 12th place.

[Anonymous]

Team Jason. He skates like it’s just a walk in the park. I never had a cringey moment watching him. And I did with Chen.

[Anonymous]

Chloe Kim is amazing and so likeable and genuine. The P and G ad about her relationship with her dad is amazing.

The crazy thing is Chloe is only 21 and getting better.

[Anonymous]

The skating debate is a lot like the gymnastics debate. I think we've sacrificed so much beauty in gymnastics due to the focus on harder and harder tricks. I think it's why Sunisa Lee became such a fan favorite ... she really combines the artistry and the tricks. (And her bars moves actually remind me a little of Jason Brown's jumping.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figure skater Jason Brown is a beautiful skater. Stick to triples. I’d rather watch a well executed, perfect routine with no wobbles, falls, etc. Tired of all the Quadruple stuff that rarely come off smoothly.

That’s what Stars on Ice is for, but the Olympics is meant to push the limits of what is possible. Faster, higher, stronger. Jason is a great skater but he is not the most artistic. I feel his scores reflect fondness for him, but I would have much rather seen Ilia compete at the Olympics.

+1,000

If anything Jason is underscored. As a former skater I have to say that aside from the jumps what Jason does is harder then what everyone else is doing. No one else has his edge quality or his mastery of the blade. We are just in a world now where jumps are so heavily valued and the sport is off balance.

"Aside from the hardest thing to do in his discipline, which he doesn't do, he does very hard things."

This very much has the feel of, "So, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

You can tell who the real skating fans are and who the Olympics-only crowd is. What you’re saying is that the only measure of a good tennis player is his serve, or the only measure of a good golfer is her putting.

Yes, the jumps are the hardest technical element. But that doesn't mean they are the only important elements. Spins, footwork, choreography/artistic expression. All these come together to make a program. That’s why they are all required elements. You literally have to have footwork, spins and choreography to qualify for the free skate. You get that, right?

Thankfully, Jason is not the only artistic skater out there, but man, he is a master of footwork, artistry, flexibility, spins, it's ALL there. And...jumps, too! No, he doesn't have a quad. That's undeniable. And I recognize that he shouldn't be ranked higher than the skaters who DO have quads AND artistry. But what's sad to me is that there are several skaters out there who have quads *and not much else* who place higher than Jason. But luckily, the podium this year had a good mixture of quads AND skating skills. My goodness, Kagiyama was absolutely stunning to watch. Kagiyama FELT the music, and that gave power to his jumps. And obviously Chen is the full package.

What makes Jason's jumps special, in my mind, is how they naturally flow in and out of choreography. With almost every other male skater, it's such a long and obvious setup: also known as "telegraphing" your jumps. Jason is unmatched with jumps coming as a natural extension of the music. That is why the judges reward him: it's not just jumps, he's the whole package. He didn't deserve the podium this time around. But he deserved to represent USA at the Olympics. And he sure did belong in that final group, and his performances are timeless and masterful.

The scoring system values technical jumps over those other elements though. Strategically, if he wanted to win, he'd have to focus more on developing his jumps, since he maxed out on his component scores. But, good for him for maintaining the integrity of his artistry. He skates beautifully, but he had hit his ceiling, which is why a handful of sloppy quads out ranked him. It's a testament to his skill that he came in 6th in the long program without a single quad though. The next skater without a quad was all the way in 12th place.

I'm not an expert on the scoring system, so I'm wondering of you can help me. Is the additional value given for grade of execution related to the base value of each skill? Why can't lower base value skills be given higher GOE scores? It seems like they get 1-2 max.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else dying for a skating show featuring Jason Brown, Keegan Messing, Donovan Carrillo and Adam Siao Him Fa?

Yes, I love Donovan Carrillo, too!

He was my sentimental favorite! So adorable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The skating debate is a lot like the gymnastics debate. I think we've sacrificed so much beauty in gymnastics due to the focus on harder and harder tricks. I think it's why Sunisa Lee became such a fan favorite ... she really combines the artistry and the tricks. (And her bars moves actually remind me a little of Jason Brown's jumping.)

That's the appeal of NCAA gymnastics. There's not much of a payoff for doing the hardest skills, because the emphasis is (supposed to be) on doing the skills perfectly.

[Anonymous]

I'm not an expert on the scoring system, so I'm wondering of you can help me. Is the additional value given for grade of execution related to the base value of each skill? Why can't lower base value skills be given higher GOE scores? It seems like they get 1-2 max.

There are two portions of the score. The technical score has no cap, while the performance (or component score) is capped. Each technical component receives a base point value and then that base point value is adjusted by a GOE which is scaled to be within a range of +/- 5 points. So a less complicated jump, which has a base score of 4.5 points, will receive a smaller GOE scale than a big jump worth 9 points. But your technical score can exceed 50 points in the short and 100 points in the long based on what your technical content is.

The component scores on the other hand are 10 points max for each of the 5 components, so you're scaled at or below that score, and can max out at 50 points in the SP and 100 points in the FS. Theoretically, you can maximize your component score through GOE, because you do your elements well, but since GOE is scaled based on the technical point value, you get MORE points by performing the hardest elements (quads) so there's a huge point deficit to catch up on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The skating debate is a lot like the gymnastics debate. I think we've sacrificed so much beauty in gymnastics due to the focus on harder and harder tricks. I think it's why Sunisa Lee became such a fan favorite ... she really combines the artistry and the tricks. (And her bars moves actually remind me a little of Jason Brown's jumping.)

+1. I almost don't like to watch women's Olympic gymnastics now. It stresses me out. And what they are attempting is so difficult they look stressed out and there are tons of mistakes, falls, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not an expert on the scoring system, so I'm wondering of you can help me. Is the additional value given for grade of execution related to the base value of each skill? Why can't lower base value skills be given higher GOE scores? It seems like they get 1-2 max.

There are two portions of the score. The technical score has no cap, while the performance (or component score) is capped. Each technical component receives a base point value and then that base point value is adjusted by a GOE which is scaled to be within a range of +/- 5 points. So a less complicated jump, which has a base score of 4.5 points, will receive a smaller GOE scale than a big jump worth 9 points. But your technical score can exceed 50 points in the short and 100 points in the long based on what your technical content is.

The component scores on the other hand are 10 points max for each of the 5 components, so you're scaled at or below that score, and can max out at 50 points in the SP and 100 points in the FS. Theoretically, you can maximize your component score through GOE, because you do your elements well, but since GOE is scaled based on the technical point value, you get MORE points by performing the hardest elements (quads) so there's a huge point deficit to catch up on.

Thank you! I wasn't sure about the GOE being scaled, but that makes sense. I suppose that hypothetically, certain non-jump elements could be given higher base values, like the step sequence, if the system wanted to award excellence in other areas, right? The skaters with amazing footwork sequences don't seem to be rewarded enough.

Also, I've noticed that a number of spins are designated for review. Are these flagged for the position of the body or some other flaw?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The skating debate is a lot like the gymnastics debate. I think we've sacrificed so much beauty in gymnastics due to the focus on harder and harder tricks. I think it's why Sunisa Lee became such a fan favorite ... she really combines the artistry and the tricks. (And her bars moves actually remind me a little of Jason Brown's jumping.)

+1. I almost don't like to watch women's Olympic gymnastics now. It stresses me out. And what they are attempting is so difficult they look stressed out and there are tons of mistakes, falls, etc.

agreed

and seriously, NO MORE WOLF TURNS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The skating debate is a lot like the gymnastics debate. I think we've sacrificed so much beauty in gymnastics due to the focus on harder and harder tricks. I think it's why Sunisa Lee became such a fan favorite ... she really combines the artistry and the tricks. (And her bars moves actually remind me a little of Jason Brown's jumping.)

+1. I almost don't like to watch women's Olympic gymnastics now. It stresses me out. And what they are attempting is so difficult they look stressed out and there are tons of mistakes, falls, etc.

agreed

and seriously, NO MORE WOLF TURNS

Amen to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not an expert on the scoring system, so I'm wondering of you can help me. Is the additional value given for grade of execution related to the base value of each skill? Why can't lower base value skills be given higher GOE scores? It seems like they get 1-2 max.

There are two portions of the score. The technical score has no cap, while the performance (or component score) is capped. Each technical component receives a base point value and then that base point value is adjusted by a GOE which is scaled to be within a range of +/- 5 points. So a less complicated jump, which has a base score of 4.5 points, will receive a smaller GOE scale than a big jump worth 9 points. But your technical score can exceed 50 points in the short and 100 points in the long based on what your technical content is.

The component scores on the other hand are 10 points max for each of the 5 components, so you're scaled at or below that score, and can max out at 50 points in the SP and 100 points in the FS. Theoretically, you can maximize your component score through GOE, because you do your elements well, but since GOE is scaled based on the technical point value, you get MORE points by performing the hardest elements (quads) so there's a huge point deficit to catch up on.

Thank you! I wasn't sure about the GOE being scaled, but that makes sense. I suppose that hypothetically, certain non-jump elements could be given higher base values, like the step sequence, if the system wanted to award excellence in other areas, right? The skaters with amazing footwork sequences don't seem to be rewarded enough.

Also, I've noticed that a number of spins are designated for review. Are these flagged for the position of the body or some other flaw?

Non-jump elements are assigned a level, which all have their own base point value, so yes, a more sophisticated skater can score level 4s with higher base values and GOE points than someone who does a level 2 to bid time between jumps. But those point advantages are peanuts compared to quads.

Spins may also be marked for review if they don't complete the required number of revolutions, or if they don't maintain the correct edge.