Deal is tremendously overcrowded - something is to give

[Anonymous]

If they made New North a STEM test-in, and then used the Takoma Park model of checking the educational records of all fifth-graders city-wide to identify students who were performing above grade level and then notified these parents that—unless they opted out—their children would undergo testing for the program, they would identify enough students for a STEM magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

Well everyone is discussing throwing Shepherd out and I bought in the neighborhood because my child is at Deal.

but Shepherd shouldn't really be in there save for some DC politicians who gerrymandered it in there because even black people don't wan't to go to Black majority schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

Well everyone is discussing throwing Shepherd out and I bought in the neighborhood because my child is at Deal.

Yeah and I bought in Southwest because it was the part of the Wilson boundary I could best afford. And now it doesn't feed there anymore. You have a right to send your kids to school. You don't have a right for that school to be Deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they made New North a STEM test-in, and then used the Takoma Park model of checking the educational records of all fifth-graders city-wide to identify students who were performing above grade level and then notified these parents that—unless they opted out—their children would undergo testing for the program, they would identify enough students for a STEM magnet.

This is an actual innovative approach! I love it.

I'm in agreement that ending OOB feeder rights is a better approach than re-zoning - or at least leave a long grandfathering period if re-zoning (see: Crestwood). A re-zone can have huge effects on the neighborhood. It's no secret that a big part of the reason for the "youngification" of Shepherd Park has been the guaranteed path to Deal/Wilson vs. the unpredictability of the lottery. That's certainly why we moved there after striking out in the lottery 3 years in a row with 2 different kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

This is what is done throughout the country on a regular basis. DC lacks the political will to do it due to historical patterns of de jure and defacto segregation and optics.

Serious question: What would the diversity demographics look like at Deal and Wilson if DC ended OOB feeder rights? I'm imagining it wouldn't be mostly white, since most people here seem to be defining diversity as black vs white.

On a related note, DC will never have great schools as long as we govern based on the lowest common denominator. Right now, IB families can't have an excellent Deal or Wilson because some other OOB families won't get it. So instead we'll go ahead and ensure it's overcrowded enough so NO ONE gets a great school. We have an opportunity for these schools to become great. We should end OOB feeder rights and check for residency and boundary cheaters to ensure they're not overcrowded. Efforts should focus on improving other schools. It's the only sustainable option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

Well everyone is discussing throwing Shepherd out and I bought in the neighborhood because my child is at Deal.

Welcome to the club. John Eaton fed to Deal for nearly a century and wasn't gerrymandered in. Yet Mary Cheh was willing to toss deal out like yesterday's dishwater.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they made New North a STEM test-in, and then used the Takoma Park model of checking the educational records of all fifth-graders city-wide to identify students who were performing above grade level and then notified these parents that—unless they opted out—their children would undergo testing for the program, they would identify enough students for a STEM magnet.

This is an actual innovative approach! I love it.

I'm in agreement that ending OOB feeder rights is a better approach than re-zoning - or at least leave a long grandfathering period if re-zoning (see: Crestwood). A re-zone can have huge effects on the neighborhood. It's no secret that a big part of the reason for the "youngification" of Shepherd Park has been the guaranteed path to Deal/Wilson vs. the unpredictability of the lottery. That's certainly why we moved there after striking out in the lottery 3 years in a row with 2 different kids.

I think the youngification of Shepard Park has more to do with the revitalization of Ohev Shalom, and JPDS's decision to expand to middle school. A huge percentage of OS (and actually, the conservative synagogue across the street) families are at JPDS/other private Jewish schools. That's not to say that Shepherd Park's elevated home prices don't take into account the path to Wilson/Deal, but that is true of other schools in other neighborhoods that get re-zoned for a particular school. Real estate values go up and down for a variety of reasons outside the control of the buyer.

Studies show that all students learn better in diverse environments, and racial diversity is one component of diversity. We probably need to do a three-prong approach: 1) create magnet test-in middle schools to be located EOTP (start with STEM, then add communications/media); 2) Limit OOB to a set aside number of students for Wards 7 and 8 (where bulk of city's students live/more likely to be students of color/poor); 3) rezone, e.g., Shepherd and other middle class EOTP schools to New North non-magnet with option to test-in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

This is what is done throughout the country on a regular basis. DC lacks the political will to do it due to historical patterns of de jure and defacto segregation and optics.

Serious question: What would the diversity demographics look like at Deal and Wilson if DC ended OOB feeder rights? I'm imagining it wouldn't be mostly white, since most people here seem to be defining diversity as black vs white.

On a related note, DC will never have great schools as long as we govern based on the lowest common denominator. Right now, IB families can't have an excellent Deal or Wilson because some other OOB families won't get it. So instead we'll go ahead and ensure it's overcrowded enough so NO ONE gets a great school. We have an opportunity for these schools to become great. We should end OOB feeder rights and check for residency and boundary cheaters to ensure they're not overcrowded. Efforts should focus on improving other schools. It's the only sustainable option.

The only way to do that is to change the city's population, because what makes one school better than another is determined by the student body.

Swap the teachers at Kelly Miller with the ones at Deal and the test scores would not budge. Nearly 80% of students in DC are economically disadvantaged and 50% are at risk (these number have hardly budged in the last 10 years, as the number of total students has increased). Those who say "improve other schools" come off as blissfully unaware of the root issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

This is what is done throughout the country on a regular basis. DC lacks the political will to do it due to historical patterns of de jure and defacto segregation and optics.

Serious question: What would the diversity demographics look like at Deal and Wilson if DC ended OOB feeder rights? I'm imagining it wouldn't be mostly white, since most people here seem to be defining diversity as black vs white.

On a related note, DC will never have great schools as long as we govern based on the lowest common denominator. Right now, IB families can't have an excellent Deal or Wilson because some other OOB families won't get it. So instead we'll go ahead and ensure it's overcrowded enough so NO ONE gets a great school. We have an opportunity for these schools to become great. We should end OOB feeder rights and check for residency and boundary cheaters to ensure they're not overcrowded. Efforts should focus on improving other schools. It's the only sustainable option.

The only way to do that is to change the city's population, because what makes one school better than another is determined by the student body.

Swap the teachers at Kelly Miller with the ones at Deal and the test scores would not budge. Nearly 80% of students in DC are economically disadvantaged and 50% are at risk (these number have hardly budged in the last 10 years, as the number of total students has increased). Those who say "improve other schools" come off as blissfully unaware of the root issues.

Correct but some schools both charters and public are getting results from these tougher populations. If DC had any sense they would be copying what these schools are doing. In some cases they are getting it. Take Ketcham Elementary school for example the Assistant Principals are given their own schools after a couple years to replicate the success of Ketcham.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they made New North a STEM test-in, and then used the Takoma Park model of checking the educational records of all fifth-graders city-wide to identify students who were performing above grade level and then notified these parents that—unless they opted out—their children would undergo testing for the program, they would identify enough students for a STEM magnet.

This is an actual innovative approach! I love it.

I'm in agreement that ending OOB feeder rights is a better approach than re-zoning - or at least leave a long grandfathering period if re-zoning (see: Crestwood). A re-zone can have huge effects on the neighborhood. It's no secret that a big part of the reason for the "youngification" of Shepherd Park has been the guaranteed path to Deal/Wilson vs. the unpredictability of the lottery. That's certainly why we moved there after striking out in the lottery 3 years in a row with 2 different kids.

I think the youngification of Shepard Park has more to do with the revitalization of Ohev Shalom, and JPDS's decision to expand to middle school. A huge percentage of OS (and actually, the conservative synagogue across the street) families are at JPDS/other private Jewish schools. That's not to say that Shepherd Park's elevated home prices don't take into account the path to Wilson/Deal, but that is true of other schools in other neighborhoods that get re-zoned for a particular school. Real estate values go up and down for a variety of reasons outside the control of the buyer.

Studies show that all students learn better in diverse environments, and racial diversity is one component of diversity. We probably need to do a three-prong approach: 1) create magnet test-in middle schools to be located EOTP (start with STEM, then add communications/media); 2) Limit OOB to a set aside number of students for Wards 7 and 8 (where bulk of city's students live/more likely to be students of color/poor); 3) rezone, e.g., Shepherd and other middle class EOTP schools to New North non-magnet with option to test-in.

Another Shepherd poster here. I also like the approach described above in Takoma Park. However, there are some logistical hurdles--does MoCo provide buses to transport students to magnets? Since we don't have buses in DC, some lower SES kids may qualify, but it's possible their families can't/won't transport them--so the access problem remains for these families. Not shooting it down; just pointing out a potential sticking point with this approach, despite liking it overall.

Having lived in the neighborhood for a few years, I don't think the youngification of the neighborhood is primarily coming from OS/Tifereth families--this is based on my anecdotal experience, of course. I'd guess that of the young families I know who've moved in within the last 10 years, perhaps 20% attend either of these synagogues. Another 60-70% moved here for Deal access; some also wanted a diverse neighborhood (self included on both points--Deal access and diversity). The other 10-20% are families at DCI feeders, who are likely hedging their bets by moving to a Deal neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they made New North a STEM test-in, and then used the Takoma Park model of checking the educational records of all fifth-graders city-wide to identify students who were performing above grade level and then notified these parents that—unless they opted out—their children would undergo testing for the program, they would identify enough students for a STEM magnet.

This is an actual innovative approach! I love it.

I'm in agreement that ending OOB feeder rights is a better approach than re-zoning - or at least leave a long grandfathering period if re-zoning (see: Crestwood). A re-zone can have huge effects on the neighborhood. It's no secret that a big part of the reason for the "youngification" of Shepherd Park has been the guaranteed path to Deal/Wilson vs. the unpredictability of the lottery. That's certainly why we moved there after striking out in the lottery 3 years in a row with 2 different kids.

I think the youngification of Shepard Park has more to do with the revitalization of Ohev Shalom, and JPDS's decision to expand to middle school. A huge percentage of OS (and actually, the conservative synagogue across the street) families are at JPDS/other private Jewish schools. That's not to say that Shepherd Park's elevated home prices don't take into account the path to Wilson/Deal, but that is true of other schools in other neighborhoods that get re-zoned for a particular school. Real estate values go up and down for a variety of reasons outside the control of the buyer.

Studies show that all students learn better in diverse environments, and racial diversity is one component of diversity. We probably need to do a three-prong approach: 1) create magnet test-in middle schools to be located EOTP (start with STEM, then add communications/media); 2) Limit OOB to a set aside number of students for Wards 7 and 8 (where bulk of city's students live/more likely to be students of color/poor); 3) rezone, e.g., Shepherd and other middle class EOTP schools to New North non-magnet with option to test-in.

Another Shepherd poster here. I also like the approach described above in Takoma Park. However, there are some logistical hurdles--does MoCo provide buses to transport students to magnets? Since we don't have buses in DC, some lower SES kids may qualify, but it's possible their families can't/won't transport them--so the access problem remains for these families. Not shooting it down; just pointing out a potential sticking point with this approach, despite liking it overall.

Having lived in the neighborhood for a few years, I don't think the youngification of the neighborhood is primarily coming from OS/Tifereth families--this is based on my anecdotal experience, of course. I'd guess that of the young families I know who've moved in within the last 10 years, perhaps 20% attend either of these synagogues. Another 60-70% moved here for Deal access; some also wanted a diverse neighborhood (self included on both points--Deal access and diversity). The other 10-20% are families at DCI feeders, who are likely hedging their bets by moving to a Deal neighborhood.

Yes MoCo buses students to the magnet schools. But there are not nearly enough magnet seats for all who apply or are qualified.

The transit and commute patterns of students in DC public and charter schools have been studied a lot. Remember only one-quarter of all DCPS students are actually attending their IB school. At the same time, families who are opting out of their IB tend to choose schools relatively close to their homes, particularly for elementary (<2 miles).

By middle school, people are sending their children across town via public transit from all corners of the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

Well everyone is discussing throwing Shepherd out and I bought in the neighborhood because my child is at Deal.

Welcome to the club. John Eaton fed to Deal for nearly a century and wasn't gerrymandered in. Yet Mary Cheh was willing to toss deal out like yesterday's dishwater.

Why do you all keep saying Shepherd was gerrymandered in? They weren’t a K-8 and there was no New North Middle when the last re-zoning came about. There was no choice but to keep Shepherd in its current path to Deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

Well everyone is discussing throwing Shepherd out and I bought in the neighborhood because my child is at Deal.

Welcome to the club. John Eaton fed to Deal for nearly a century and wasn't gerrymandered in. Yet Mary Cheh was willing to toss deal out like yesterday's dishwater.

Why do you all keep saying Shepherd was gerrymandered in? They weren’t a K-8 and there was no New North Middle when the last re-zoning came about. There was no choice but to keep Shepherd in its current path to Deal.

[Anonymous]

Takoma Park's busing is very limited: outskirts neighborhoods and magnets only. I think there would be enough magnet seats in early years because it will take time for Deal/Wilson in-bound parents to buy-in when they have convenient schools nearby. Families who opt-out of IB often choose charters instead of OOB options - and those charters all over the city. Moreover, many Ward 7 and 8 parents go OOB already: Takoma Elementary is 99% OOB and most of those kids are coming from Wards 7-8. The city could use some of its transportation funds and fund shuttles for Wards 7-8 parents attending WOTP schools in the name of diversity or metro subsidizes for elementary school parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

Well everyone is discussing throwing Shepherd out and I bought in the neighborhood because my child is at Deal.

Welcome to the club. John Eaton fed to Deal for nearly a century and wasn't gerrymandered in. Yet Mary Cheh was willing to toss deal out like yesterday's dishwater.

Why do you all keep saying Shepherd was gerrymandered in? They weren’t a K-8 and there was no New North Middle when the last re-zoning came about. There was no choice but to keep Shepherd in its current path to Deal.

Exactly! The school isn’t big enough for a K-8 option and New North is a fantasy.