Deal is tremendously overcrowded - something is to give

[Anonymous]

Shepherd ES was zoned for Paul Middle School back in the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

Well everyone is discussing throwing Shepherd out and I bought in the neighborhood because my child is at Deal.

Welcome to the club. John Eaton fed to Deal for nearly a century and wasn't gerrymandered in. Yet Mary Cheh was willing to toss deal out like yesterday's dishwater.

Why do you all keep saying Shepherd was gerrymandered in? They weren’t a K-8 and there was no New North Middle when the last re-zoning came about. There was no choice but to keep Shepherd in its current path to Deal.

Exactly! The school isn’t big enough for a K-8 option and New North is a fantasy.

Why is New North a fantasy? Let Shepherd and Lafayette join Ross into feeding it, and you would have a new diverse MS option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Takoma Park's busing is very limited: outskirts neighborhoods and magnets only. I think there would be enough magnet seats in early years because it will take time for Deal/Wilson in-bound parents to buy-in when they have convenient schools nearby. Families who opt-out of IB often choose charters instead of OOB options - and those charters all over the city. Moreover, many Ward 7 and 8 parents go OOB already: Takoma Elementary is 99% OOB and most of those kids are coming from Wards 7-8. The city could use some of its transportation funds and fund shuttles for Wards 7-8 parents attending WOTP schools in the name of diversity or metro subsidizes for elementary school parents.

FFS get your facts right. Most recent public data: Takoma is 58% IB; Shepherd is 43% IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

Well everyone is discussing throwing Shepherd out and I bought in the neighborhood because my child is at Deal.

Welcome to the club. John Eaton fed to Deal for nearly a century and wasn't gerrymandered in. Yet Mary Cheh was willing to toss deal out like yesterday's dishwater.

Why do you all keep saying Shepherd was gerrymandered in? They weren’t a K-8 and there was no New North Middle when the last re-zoning came about. There was no choice but to keep Shepherd in its current path to Deal.

Exactly! The school isn’t big enough for a K-8 option and New North is a fantasy.

Why is New North a fantasy? Let Shepherd and Lafayette join Ross into feeding it, and you would have a new diverse MS option.

New North isn't a fantasy. It's opening in fall 2019 in a portion of the Coolidge building (its permanent home), with about 200 students who are currently in 5th at LaSalle Backus (40), Whittier (40), Takoma (46 students) and Brightwood (88). It will add a grade a year, which is how they built MacFarland.

New North's building capacity is 550. It cannot absorb Shepherd, Lafayette and Ross in addition to the students coming from the feeder education campuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

Well everyone is discussing throwing Shepherd out and I bought in the neighborhood because my child is at Deal.

Welcome to the club. John Eaton fed to Deal for nearly a century and wasn't gerrymandered in. Yet Mary Cheh was willing to toss deal out like yesterday's dishwater.

Why do you all keep saying Shepherd was gerrymandered in? They weren’t a K-8 and there was no New North Middle when the last re-zoning came about. There was no choice but to keep Shepherd in its current path to Deal.

Exactly! The school isn’t big enough for a K-8 option and New North is a fantasy.

Why is New North a fantasy? Let Shepherd and Lafayette join Ross into feeding it, and you would have a new diverse MS option.

New North isn't a fantasy. It's opening in fall 2019 in a portion of the Coolidge building (its permanent home), with about 200 students who are currently in 5th at LaSalle Backus (40), Whittier (40), Takoma (46 students) and Brightwood (88). It will add a grade a year, which is how they built MacFarland.

New North's building capacity is 550. It cannot absorb Shepherd, Lafayette and Ross in addition to the students coming from the feeder education campuses.

First, not all the kids currently in the feeder schools will wind up at New North. Some kids who would have stayed at their K-8 will choose a charter or a different DCPS school over New North. I think attrition from 5th to 6th grade at TEC, Brightwood, LaSalle-Backus, and Whittier will be lower than from 5th grade in those same schools to 6th at New North.

Second, the total MS and HS capacity of the New North/Coolidge renovation is 550+670=1220, with a maximum capacity of 687+842=1529. Right now there are only 346 students at Coolidge HS. They could absorb Shepherd and Lafayette, especially knowing that some kids will not stay for HS but will go to SWW, Banneker, McKinley, charters, etc. Once the schools start to approach capacity, DCPS can again re-evaluate the boundaries and potentially shift some kids to Roosevelt or Dunbar (via Brookland MS, which is quite underenrolled as well).

Ross shouldn't go to New North--that makes no geographic sense. Better to keep it with Francis-Stevens, Thompson, Seaton, Garrison, and Cleveland and have them all go to Cardozo. Those six schools are a pretty strong feeder group, especially if Francis-Stevens becomes a PK-5 school with its own principal and more elementary students, and Cardozo gets a separate middle school principal and some differentiated classes. Ross is already getting bigger (hence the abolition of PK3 there) so it will have more kids to feed to middle school too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

This is what is done throughout the country on a regular basis. DC lacks the political will to do it due to historical patterns of de jure and defacto segregation and optics.

Serious question: What would the diversity demographics look like at Deal and Wilson if DC ended OOB feeder rights? I'm imagining it wouldn't be mostly white, since most people here seem to be defining diversity as black vs white.

On a related note, DC will never have great schools as long as we govern based on the lowest common denominator. Right now, IB families can't have an excellent Deal or Wilson because some other OOB families won't get it. So instead we'll go ahead and ensure it's overcrowded enough so NO ONE gets a great school. We have an opportunity for these schools to become great. We should end OOB feeder rights and check for residency and boundary cheaters to ensure they're not overcrowded. Efforts should focus on improving other schools. It's the only sustainable option.

The only way to do that is to change the city's population, because what makes one school better than another is determined by the student body.

Swap the teachers at Kelly Miller with the ones at Deal and the test scores would not budge. Nearly 80% of students in DC are economically disadvantaged and 50% are at risk (these number have hardly budged in the last 10 years, as the number of total students has increased). Those who say "improve other schools" come off as blissfully unaware of the root issues.

PP you're responding to here. OK, fair enough regarding the student body issues. But some of these neighborhoods do have the student body demographics, yet these families are choosing OOB DCPS, DCPCS, or privates. Something has to be done to make the IB schools a realistic choice. For example, look at the Logan Circle/Columbia Heights/ Shaw area. There are plenty of affluent families there, but the middle and high schools aren't even close to reasonable options. I'm not saying that I have all the answers, but steps need to be taken to make these schools realistic options. No UMC families - either black or white - would consider Cardozo for example. The student body at Cardozo doesn't reflect the neighborhood. DC leadership hasn't demonstrated a viable plan to work towards this improvement of EOTP MS & HS options. Anything short of this just isn't sustainable. It can't be Deal/Hardy/Wilson or a handful of charters forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

PP you're responding to here. OK, fair enough regarding the student body issues. But some of these neighborhoods do have the student body demographics, yet these families are choosing OOB DCPS, DCPCS, or privates. Something has to be done to make the IB schools a realistic choice. For example, look at the Logan Circle/Columbia Heights/ Shaw area. There are plenty of affluent families there, but the middle and high schools aren't even close to reasonable options. I'm not saying that I have all the answers, but steps need to be taken to make these schools realistic options. No UMC families - either black or white - would consider Cardozo for example. The student body at Cardozo doesn't reflect the neighborhood. DC leadership hasn't demonstrated a viable plan to work towards this improvement of EOTP MS & HS options. Anything short of this just isn't sustainable. It can't be Deal/Hardy/Wilson or a handful of charters forever.

It isn't going to be just Deal/Hardy/Wilson forever. Hobson is on the cusp of being the "next" Hardy, and I think Jefferson is close behind. But it's taken 10 years for those schools to get to the point where more affluent families stay through 5th and it will happen school by school likely as the neighborhoods gentrify (and not because the "schools" themselves change much).

The city's entire student body demographics are just not there -- yet -- even if you pulled everyone out of every charter and their OOB schools. Maybe if all the Ward 3 private school families weny to public (which is happening slowly but the latest data showed that ~50% are still not going to a public or a charter school)

48% of DCPS' 52,164 students are at-risk (homeless, in foster care, qualified for TANF or SNAP) - 25,038 kids
44% of charters' 46,902 students are at risk - 20,636

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

PP you're responding to here. OK, fair enough regarding the student body issues. But some of these neighborhoods do have the student body demographics, yet these families are choosing OOB DCPS, DCPCS, or privates. Something has to be done to make the IB schools a realistic choice. For example, look at the Logan Circle/Columbia Heights/ Shaw area. There are plenty of affluent families there, but the middle and high schools aren't even close to reasonable options. I'm not saying that I have all the answers, but steps need to be taken to make these schools realistic options. No UMC families - either black or white - would consider Cardozo for example. The student body at Cardozo doesn't reflect the neighborhood. DC leadership hasn't demonstrated a viable plan to work towards this improvement of EOTP MS & HS options. Anything short of this just isn't sustainable. It can't be Deal/Hardy/Wilson or a handful of charters forever.

It isn't going to be just Deal/Hardy/Wilson forever. Hobson is on the cusp of being the "next" Hardy, and I think Jefferson is close behind. But it's taken 10 years for those schools to get to the point where more affluent families stay through 5th and it will happen school by school likely as the neighborhoods gentrify (and not because the "schools" themselves change much).

The city's entire student body demographics are just not there -- yet -- even if you pulled everyone out of every charter and their OOB schools. Maybe if all the Ward 3 private school families weny to public (which is happening slowly but the latest data showed that ~50% are still not going to a public or a charter school)

48% of DCPS' 52,164 students are at-risk (homeless, in foster care, qualified for TANF or SNAP) - 25,038 kids
44% of charters' 46,902 students are at risk - 20,636

Is that the actual number or is that counting all the kids at schools that get classified as 100% at risk even if some kids aren't?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

PP you're responding to here. OK, fair enough regarding the student body issues. But some of these neighborhoods do have the student body demographics, yet these families are choosing OOB DCPS, DCPCS, or privates. Something has to be done to make the IB schools a realistic choice. For example, look at the Logan Circle/Columbia Heights/ Shaw area. There are plenty of affluent families there, but the middle and high schools aren't even close to reasonable options. I'm not saying that I have all the answers, but steps need to be taken to make these schools realistic options. No UMC families - either black or white - would consider Cardozo for example. The student body at Cardozo doesn't reflect the neighborhood. DC leadership hasn't demonstrated a viable plan to work towards this improvement of EOTP MS & HS options. Anything short of this just isn't sustainable. It can't be Deal/Hardy/Wilson or a handful of charters forever.

It isn't going to be just Deal/Hardy/Wilson forever. Hobson is on the cusp of being the "next" Hardy, and I think Jefferson is close behind. But it's taken 10 years for those schools to get to the point where more affluent families stay through 5th and it will happen school by school likely as the neighborhoods gentrify (and not because the "schools" themselves change much).

The city's entire student body demographics are just not there -- yet -- even if you pulled everyone out of every charter and their OOB schools. Maybe if all the Ward 3 private school families weny to public (which is happening slowly but the latest data showed that ~50% are still not going to a public or a charter school)

48% of DCPS' 52,164 students are at-risk (homeless, in foster care, qualified for TANF or SNAP) - 25,038 kids
44% of charters' 46,902 students are at risk - 20,636

Is that the actual number or is that counting all the kids at schools that get classified as 100% at risk even if some kids aren't?

That's the actual number. The "rounding" that used to happen because of community eligibility is no longer being used as a category by OSSE. "FARMS" is no longer relevant or used as a proxy for poverty; at-risk is the term for high-need students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

This is what is done throughout the country on a regular basis. DC lacks the political will to do it due to historical patterns of de jure and defacto segregation and optics.

Serious question: What would the diversity demographics look like at Deal and Wilson if DC ended OOB feeder rights? I'm imagining it wouldn't be mostly white, since most people here seem to be defining diversity as black vs white.

On a related note, DC will never have great schools as long as we govern based on the lowest common denominator. Right now, IB families can't have an excellent Deal or Wilson because some other OOB families won't get it. So instead we'll go ahead and ensure it's overcrowded enough so NO ONE gets a great school. We have an opportunity for these schools to become great. We should end OOB feeder rights and check for residency and boundary cheaters to ensure they're not overcrowded. Efforts should focus on improving other schools. It's the only sustainable option.

The only way to do that is to change the city's population, because what makes one school better than another is determined by the student body.

Swap the teachers at Kelly Miller with the ones at Deal and the test scores would not budge. Nearly 80% of students in DC are economically disadvantaged and 50% are at risk (these number have hardly budged in the last 10 years, as the number of total students has increased). Those who say "improve other schools" come off as blissfully unaware of the root issues.

PP you're responding to here. OK, fair enough regarding the student body issues. But some of these neighborhoods do have the student body demographics, yet these families are choosing OOB DCPS, DCPCS, or privates. Something has to be done to make the IB schools a realistic choice. For example, look at the Logan Circle/Columbia Heights/ Shaw area. There are plenty of affluent families there, but the middle and high schools aren't even close to reasonable options. I'm not saying that I have all the answers, but steps need to be taken to make these schools realistic options. No UMC families - either black or white - would consider Cardozo for example. The student body at Cardozo doesn't reflect the neighborhood. DC leadership hasn't demonstrated a viable plan to work towards this improvement of EOTP MS & HS options. Anything short of this just isn't sustainable. It can't be Deal/Hardy/Wilson or a handful of charters forever.

I think DC leadership is in a bind because these are two radically different populations. Both need viable MS and HS options but what that entails for each group would be next to impossible to meet. For example, take the teen mom lower income population versus the UMC white girls population. How can you serve both? You can’t without upsetting one of them. DCPS sides with lower income needs because the UMC students have the money to solve their own problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Takoma Park's busing is very limited: outskirts neighborhoods and magnets only. I think there would be enough magnet seats in early years because it will take time for Deal/Wilson in-bound parents to buy-in when they have convenient schools nearby. Families who opt-out of IB often choose charters instead of OOB options - and those charters all over the city. Moreover, many Ward 7 and 8 parents go OOB already: Takoma Elementary is 99% OOB and most of those kids are coming from Wards 7-8. The city could use some of its transportation funds and fund shuttles for Wards 7-8 parents attending WOTP schools in the name of diversity or metro subsidizes for elementary school parents.

FFS get your facts right. Most recent public data: Takoma is 58% IB; Shepherd is 43% IB.

FFS, not at the middle school level, which is what we are talking about. If you control for pre-K 3 and 4, you are looking at upwards of 95% of oob.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Takoma Park's busing is very limited: outskirts neighborhoods and magnets only. I think there would be enough magnet seats in early years because it will take time for Deal/Wilson in-bound parents to buy-in when they have convenient schools nearby. Families who opt-out of IB often choose charters instead of OOB options - and those charters all over the city. Moreover, many Ward 7 and 8 parents go OOB already: Takoma Elementary is 99% OOB and most of those kids are coming from Wards 7-8. The city could use some of its transportation funds and fund shuttles for Wards 7-8 parents attending WOTP schools in the name of diversity or metro subsidizes for elementary school parents.

FFS get your facts right. Most recent public data: Takoma is 58% IB; Shepherd is 43% IB.

FFS, not at the middle school level, which is what we are talking about. If you control for pre-K 3 and 4, you are looking at upwards of 95% of oob.

Not sure that adds up.

Last year there were 513 students at Takoma. There were 83 in Pk3 and Pk4 (37/46) -- assuming they were all IB (no early stages OOB ECE students? really? despite the autism program?) that's only 27% of the school population. So yeah, the upper grades have a higher OOB percentage, it isn't near 95%.

And you have no way of knowing how many OOB students there are in the middle school grades because that data isn't released.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Takoma Park's busing is very limited: outskirts neighborhoods and magnets only. I think there would be enough magnet seats in early years because it will take time for Deal/Wilson in-bound parents to buy-in when they have convenient schools nearby. Families who opt-out of IB often choose charters instead of OOB options - and those charters all over the city. Moreover, many Ward 7 and 8 parents go OOB already: Takoma Elementary is 99% OOB and most of those kids are coming from Wards 7-8. The city could use some of its transportation funds and fund shuttles for Wards 7-8 parents attending WOTP schools in the name of diversity or metro subsidizes for elementary school parents.

FFS get your facts right. Most recent public data: Takoma is 58% IB; Shepherd is 43% IB.

FFS, not at the middle school level, which is what we are talking about. If you control for pre-K 3 and 4, you are looking at upwards of 95% of oob.

Not sure that adds up.

Last year there were 513 students at Takoma. There were 83 in Pk3 and Pk4 (37/46) -- assuming they were all IB (no early stages OOB ECE students? really? despite the autism program?) that's only 27% of the school population. So yeah, the upper grades have a higher OOB percentage, it isn't near 95%.

And you have no way of knowing how many OOB students there are in the middle school grades because that data isn't released.

It is a point frequently raised at the Ward 4 Education Alliance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the redistricting the Lafayette neighborhood technically may be in Ward 4 but it certainly is not of Ward 4. Ward 4 has a checkered political history. It was part of Ward 3 for years and that is how most residents are oriented — west of the Park. It would be unthinkable if Lafayette no longer fed to Deal and Wilson.

Change is hard but not impossible.

NP here. It's ridiculous to rezone homes that families likely specifically bought for the school boundaries. It makes a lot more sense to end OOB feeder rights.

Well everyone is discussing throwing Shepherd out and I bought in the neighborhood because my child is at Deal.

Welcome to the club. John Eaton fed to Deal for nearly a century and wasn't gerrymandered in. Yet Mary Cheh was willing to toss deal out like yesterday's dishwater.

Why do you all keep saying Shepherd was gerrymandered in? They weren’t a K-8 and there was no New North Middle when the last re-zoning came about. There was no choice but to keep Shepherd in its current path to Deal.

Shepherd had only fed Deal for about 10 years at the last re-zone, they used to feed Paul which converted to charter circa 2004.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they made New North a STEM test-in, and then used the Takoma Park model of checking the educational records of all fifth-graders city-wide to identify students who were performing above grade level and then notified these parents that—unless they opted out—their children would undergo testing for the program, they would identify enough students for a STEM magnet.

There are two ideas that never die in DCPS:

1. Concentrate all of the high-achieving students to make more schools that are appealing to families of other high-achieving students (i.e. magnets).
2. Disperse all of the high-achieving students to make more schools that are appealing to families of other high-achieving students. (i.e. rezone WOTP).

Neither will work, for the simple reason that there aren't enough high-achieving students in the system for either to work.