Federal judge rules that admissions changes at nation’s top public school discriminate against Asian

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you go into any STEM middle school activity in NoVa, it is over 90% Asian. Those are the kids who interested and apply to TJ. It's not anything TJ did to dissuade URMs.

This. Asians are "overrepresented" in math contests that are open for any and all participants. They are heavily "overrepresented" among the winners of these contests. There is no cheating or gatekeeping involved in this.

Cheating, no, but gatekeeping, yes. Frequently parent volunteers end up choosing the rosters for these activities and, lo and behold, they end up choosing their child and their child's friends.

So volunteer, or get the URM group you're targeting to volunteer. See how that works?

Economically disadvantaged parents (and this goes for Asian families as well) do not necessarily have the time to volunteer or the money to allow their students to participate in these events.

Exactly - so the pipeline needs to be fixed at the start, not at the end. As far as volunteering, it's about your priorities. And that's fine you or economically disadvantaged parents choice not to prioritize their kids education. Choices have conseuences.

It is a luxury to be able to volunteer at your child's school during normal working hours, or in some cases even after working hours.

There are many ways to prioritize your child's education that go beyond the narrow definition of what historically has worked to get kids into TJ.

The viewpoint espoused in this post is incredibly myopic.

Such as the racist TJ reform?

You're going to have to expand. A commonsense reading of your response suggests that you don't understand what racism is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you go into any STEM middle school activity in NoVa, it is over 90% Asian. Those are the kids who interested and apply to TJ. It's not anything TJ did to dissuade URMs.

This. Asians are "overrepresented" in math contests that are open for any and all participants. They are heavily "overrepresented" among the winners of these contests. There is no cheating or gatekeeping involved in this.

Cheating, no, but gatekeeping, yes. Frequently parent volunteers end up choosing the rosters for these activities and, lo and behold, they end up choosing their child and their child's friends.

So volunteer, or get the URM group you're targeting to volunteer. See how that works?

Economically disadvantaged parents (and this goes for Asian families as well) do not necessarily have the time to volunteer or the money to allow their students to participate in these events.

Exactly - so the pipeline needs to be fixed at the start, not at the end. As far as volunteering, it's about your priorities. And that's fine you or economically disadvantaged parents choice not to prioritize their kids education. Choices have conseuences.

It is a luxury to be able to volunteer at your child's school during normal working hours, or in some cases even after working hours.

There are many ways to prioritize your child's education that go beyond the narrow definition of what historically has worked to get kids into TJ.

The viewpoint espoused in this post is incredibly myopic.

This is just BS. Vast majority of the Asian TJ parents are full time workers and in most cases both parents work. I found it laughable you're using this as an excuse of not volunteering.
So stop finding all kinds of excuses for your anti-Asian racist thinking and your own political gain. If you simply ask a typical URM parent, they'd just tell you they're not interested in STEM at all (I know this first hand). So just f'off!

[Anonymous]

Do Jews attend tj or not really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you go into any STEM middle school activity in NoVa, it is over 90% Asian. Those are the kids who interested and apply to TJ. It's not anything TJ did to dissuade URMs.

This. Asians are "overrepresented" in math contests that are open for any and all participants. They are heavily "overrepresented" among the winners of these contests. There is no cheating or gatekeeping involved in this.

Cheating, no, but gatekeeping, yes. Frequently parent volunteers end up choosing the rosters for these activities and, lo and behold, they end up choosing their child and their child's friends.

So volunteer, or get the URM group you're targeting to volunteer. See how that works?

Economically disadvantaged parents (and this goes for Asian families as well) do not necessarily have the time to volunteer or the money to allow their students to participate in these events.

Exactly - so the pipeline needs to be fixed at the start, not at the end. As far as volunteering, it's about your priorities. And that's fine you or economically disadvantaged parents choice not to prioritize their kids education. Choices have conseuences.

It is a luxury to be able to volunteer at your child's school during normal working hours, or in some cases even after working hours.

There are many ways to prioritize your child's education that go beyond the narrow definition of what historically has worked to get kids into TJ.

The viewpoint espoused in this post is incredibly myopic.

Such as the racist TJ reform?

You're going to have to expand. A commonsense reading of your response suggests that you don't understand what racism is.

Obviously, federal judges don't understand it either.

[Anonymous]

What strikes me, while reading through this thread, is that we are all fighting over a scare resource: a high quality high school for high achieving students. Why aren't other high schools able to offer a rigorous course load? I had wonderful opportunities in school and I'm disappointed that my kids don't have access to things like that. Where you live shouldn't mean you're stuck in basic classes throughout high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What strikes me, while reading through this thread, is that we are all fighting over a scare resource: a high quality high school for high achieving students. Why aren't other high schools able to offer a rigorous course load? I had wonderful opportunities in school and I'm disappointed that my kids don't have access to things like that. Where you live shouldn't mean you're stuck in basic classes throughout high school.

Many had to water down their offerings and not many are interested in post-ap courses beyond calculus BC or beyond AP physics etc.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Asians were wildly over represented before. While it is not reasonable to expect that merit outcomes will be identical to population levels when the population varies considerably in SES and English competency, it also is not reasonable to think peke are not going to bat an eyelash when the process yields more than TRIPLE the level of Asians compared to their level in the student population. Not 50% more or even 100% more - more than triple!

20% vs 70%+

This disproportionality is even greater when you talk about South Asians. They represent about 5-6% of the total Northern VA population and about 40-45% of TJ pre-admissions changes.

Do you have a new racist plan to take care of them?

Some other PPs have suggested different approaches to selecting TJ students that could be tried. All I am saying is that yes when the numbers areTHAT enormously out of whack (again, not just 50% let alone even double but many times over) then it does not seem like a fair system working well for the county as a whole.

Sounds like someone who is deeply troubled by Asian success in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do Jews attend tj or not really?

Yes, in pretty good numbers too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you go into any STEM middle school activity in NoVa, it is over 90% Asian. Those are the kids who interested and apply to TJ. It's not anything TJ did to dissuade URMs.

This. Asians are "overrepresented" in math contests that are open for any and all participants. They are heavily "overrepresented" among the winners of these contests. There is no cheating or gatekeeping involved in this.

Cheating, no, but gatekeeping, yes. Frequently parent volunteers end up choosing the rosters for these activities and, lo and behold, they end up choosing their child and their child's friends.

So volunteer, or get the URM group you're targeting to volunteer. See how that works?

Economically disadvantaged parents (and this goes for Asian families as well) do not necessarily have the time to volunteer or the money to allow their students to participate in these events.

Exactly - so the pipeline needs to be fixed at the start, not at the end. As far as volunteering, it's about your priorities. And that's fine you or economically disadvantaged parents choice not to prioritize their kids education. Choices have conseuences.

It is a luxury to be able to volunteer at your child's school during normal working hours, or in some cases even after working hours.

There are many ways to prioritize your child's education that go beyond the narrow definition of what historically has worked to get kids into TJ.

The viewpoint espoused in this post is incredibly myopic.

This is just BS. Vast majority of the Asian TJ parents are full time workers and in most cases both parents work. I found it laughable you're using this as an excuse of not volunteering.
So stop finding all kinds of excuses for your anti-Asian racist thinking and your own political gain. If you simply ask a typical URM parent, they'd just tell you they're not interested in STEM at all (I know this first hand). So just f'off!

Typical white kids are not interested either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I fail to see how disproportionately-represented has any more or less negative connotation that over-represented and under-represented... the latter two are just more granular/specific classes of the former. They're all just mathematical and descriptive and neutral.

I'm all for being sensitive to avoiding terms that have certain connotations for certain groups, but this just seems a bridge too far, and I've never heard anyone in any other context express concern about this term. More and more I suspect we're just dealing with a troll... kudos on your skill, but wish you felt some shame/remorse for your characterization of an Asian parent POV.

I'm the PP who suggested disproportonately. In a vacuum, I agree with you that over and under represented are just more granular/specific classes of the former. But as I explained, political rhetoric has now added extra implications to over and under representation. Both carry stigmas and have caused people to get defensive when characterized that way. Overrepresented populations like whites and Asian Americans are accused of having white privilege or prepped. Underrepresented have the connotation that they are less qualified and need affirmative action to protect them. We have built up a systemic implications to those terms that carry a lot of baggage.

The suggestion was just to move away from the loaded terms and try for new terms to suggest the underlying issue, that the proportions of acceptances do not match the demographics of the local population and that they are trying to get a student body that more accurately represents the community that they live in.

I was the poster who had a problem with the term overrepresented. It is being used as a blunt weapon and driven by bad intent. I am not quite sure whether your suggestion comes from a good place. Because your underlying premise/belief still seems to me that a STEM magnet program acceptance through a competitive process somehow has to be in line with the demographics of the community. Pardon me for being cynical but somehow I think you are just trying a new fancy PR spin but with the same intent of demonizing a group.

Suggesting that a publicly funded educational opportunity should have some demographic resemblance to the community of taxpayers it serves (and I don't think anyone serious is suggesting that it needs to be 100% demographically aligned) is not the same as demonizing a group.

It often comes with a lot of demonizing of said group. Think about how many people say Asians are cheaters, undeserving, robots, or anything along those lines. There is a lot of bandwagon hate that goes unchallenged by people trying to reform the system, and it makes the whole thing feel very racist.

Unfortunately, you are correct. It is a challenging needle to thread for those of us who believe strongly in reform - understanding (based purely on results) that the previous admissions process conferred advantages to a specific cultural approach to education must not turn into demonization of that approach.

What people like me believe is that there should be space at TJ for outstanding, hard-working, meritorious individuals who come from different backgrounds and different approaches to the educational process - and that making space for those individuals results in a more dynamic and enriched educational environment. The updated admissions process took a step in that direction while, in my mind, removing a few too many opportunities for feedback that were unnecessary.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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You're right, but frequently the students who have the most success in these competitions are those whose families have paid for extra help or prep work in these areas. It always comes back to parents using their resources to boost their kids - and there's nothing wrong with them doing that; they just need to do it without the expectation that it's going to get them into elite schools, because if those resources confer a huge advantage on to a student, you have a classist process.

AOPS has a free, very active forum and a ton of free resources for any motivated kids. Even if a kid is economically disadvantaged, at some point the kid needs to proactively do something to prove merit, much like the slew of economically disadvantaged Asian kids who still have the chops to get accepted into Stuyvesant each year.

How exactly would 5th graders from ED families know about AOPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're right, but frequently the students who have the most success in these competitions are those whose families have paid for extra help or prep work in these areas. It always comes back to parents using their resources to boost their kids - and there's nothing wrong with them doing that; they just need to do it without the expectation that it's going to get them into elite schools, because if those resources confer a huge advantage on to a student, you have a classist process.

AOPS has a free, very active forum and a ton of free resources for any motivated kids. Even if a kid is economically disadvantaged, at some point the kid needs to proactively do something to prove merit, much like the slew of economically disadvantaged Asian kids who still have the chops to get accepted into Stuyvesant each year.

How exactly would 5th graders from ED families know about AOPS?

Are you suggesting Asians are privileged to know about a public website or have designed an algorithm to prevent other races from knowing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

AOPS has a free, very active forum and a ton of free resources for any motivated kids. Even if a kid is economically disadvantaged, at some point the kid needs to proactively do something to prove merit, much like the slew of economically disadvantaged Asian kids who still have the chops to get accepted into Stuyvesant each year.

How exactly would 5th graders from ED families know about AOPS?

Google search for free math resources? Ask teachers what to do with their kids who are bright and unchallenged? Post on forums asking for help? Why do all of the white saviors believe that poor people are completely incapable of performing very simple tasks to aid their kids' educations? Why do they also assume that poor kids are completely incapable of showing any initiative?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're right, but frequently the students who have the most success in these competitions are those whose families have paid for extra help or prep work in these areas. It always comes back to parents using their resources to boost their kids - and there's nothing wrong with them doing that; they just need to do it without the expectation that it's going to get them into elite schools, because if those resources confer a huge advantage on to a student, you have a classist process.

AOPS has a free, very active forum and a ton of free resources for any motivated kids. Even if a kid is economically disadvantaged, at some point the kid needs to proactively do something to prove merit, much like the slew of economically disadvantaged Asian kids who still have the chops to get accepted into Stuyvesant each year.

How exactly would 5th graders from ED families know about AOPS?

Are you suggesting Asians are privileged to know about a public website or have designed an algorithm to prevent other races from knowing?

Lol
How evil are those damn Asians. No wonder they are so #toxic!

[Anonymous]

The ugly truth that everyone seems to be dancing around is that the South Asian population in NoVA strongly skews toward highly intelligent, highly motivated families who are in the area specifically to perform skilled STEM jobs. It's unsurprising that their kids are going to likewise be highly intelligent and STEM oriented, and thus be "overrepresented" at elite STEM schools. The Whites, AAs, Hispanics, and even East Asians in FCPS are much more representative of their races as a whole. The South Asians in FCPS/LCPS are not at all representative of all South Asians.