Islamophobic and anti-semitic hate crimes in the US since 10/7

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is saying the death of Paul Kessler is not tragic. However, it looks like it happened after some type of altercation or dispute at the rally. He was not singled out and targeted.

I think previous PPs were just pointing out that these three men, along with the boy who was killed and his mom who was stabbed as well as the Stanford student hit by a car, were all attacked while they were just living their regular lives. And that is concerning.

Not exactly like the six year old boy. These were men walking around in keffiyahs. This is absolutely a tragic hate crime. Just should note that they were openly walking around in Palestinian scarves that have been frequently worn lately as a symbol of Palestinian nationalism. Again, that is not a crime and what happened was awful. But wouldn’t equate that to a six year old who makes no political statement.

Maybe they were wearing a keffiyah, which is a scarf commonly worn by Palestinians, because they're Palestinian? I'm 99% sure they had worn a keffiyah prior to Oct. 7. Should they have to stop wearing one because someone could view it as a political statement?

What about a star of David necklace? Or a kippah? Should someone who worn those previously stop wearing them because it can be viewed as a political statement?

I understand what you are saying. But I don't agree. They were out for a walk after attending an 8 year olds birthday party, not making a political statement.

I agree- I said it was absolutely wrong and a hate crime.

It’s different than a kippah or a Star of David or taqiya etc, which are all religious symbols. The Palestinian scarf is a symbol of nationalism and that movement has many non-peaceful associations. And at this moment in time, it is an inflammatory and very intentional accessory. I also wouldn’t advise Israeli supporters to walk around wearing a tee shirt with an Israeli flag on it, precisely because it is a statement due to current events and also because there are a lot of nuts out there.

All of that said, they obviously didn’t deserve this. The man waving an Israeli flag didn’t deserve his death either. Neither did the six year old boy and neither did the tons of kids on college campuses facing antisemitism.

Do you understand that there are degrees of wrongdoing? Feeling that you have to hide from fellow students in a library is quite a stretch from being confronted on the street by a dead-eyed stranger and then being shot in cold blood.

They are all not "the same" type of undeserved experiences.

Why is it a contest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:anybody else ever been to Burlington Vermont or seen UVM? It's smaller than Tacoma Park, MD and people are generally easy going. This is horrible, horrible horrible on so many levels.

I'm very familiar with Burlington - my dad and one of my uncles went to St. Mike's and my daughter is in her sophomore year at UVM. Burly is definitely chill and this kind of random violence is completely out of character.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it weird that most of the articles describe them as “Palestinians” with American ciitizenship/permanent residency rather than Americans of Palestinian decent.

Because they are from Palestine. And a permanent resident is not an American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is saying the death of Paul Kessler is not tragic. However, it looks like it happened after some type of altercation or dispute at the rally. He was not singled out and targeted.

I think previous PPs were just pointing out that these three men, along with the boy who was killed and his mom who was stabbed as well as the Stanford student hit by a car, were all attacked while they were just living their regular lives. And that is concerning.

Not exactly like the six year old boy. These were men walking around in keffiyahs. This is absolutely a tragic hate crime. Just should note that they were openly walking around in Palestinian scarves that have been frequently worn lately as a symbol of Palestinian nationalism. Again, that is not a crime and what happened was awful. But wouldn’t equate that to a six year old who makes no political statement.

Maybe they were wearing a keffiyah, which is a scarf commonly worn by Palestinians, because they're Palestinian? I'm 99% sure they had worn a keffiyah prior to Oct. 7. Should they have to stop wearing one because someone could view it as a political statement?

What about a star of David necklace? Or a kippah? Should someone who worn those previously stop wearing them because it can be viewed as a political statement?

I understand what you are saying. But I don't agree. They were out for a walk after attending an 8 year olds birthday party, not making a political statement.

I agree- I said it was absolutely wrong and a hate crime.

It’s different than a kippah or a Star of David or taqiya etc, which are all religious symbols. The Palestinian scarf is a symbol of nationalism and that movement has many non-peaceful associations. And at this moment in time, it is an inflammatory and very intentional accessory. I also wouldn’t advise Israeli supporters to walk around wearing a tee shirt with an Israeli flag on it, precisely because it is a statement due to current events and also because there are a lot of nuts out there.

All of that said, they obviously didn’t deserve this. The man waving an Israeli flag didn’t deserve his death either. Neither did the six year old boy and neither did the tons of kids on college campuses facing antisemitism.

Do you understand that there are degrees of wrongdoing? Feeling that you have to hide from fellow students in a library is quite a stretch from being confronted on the street by a dead-eyed stranger and then being shot in cold blood.

They are all not "the same" type of undeserved experiences.

Why is it a contest?

It's not a contest. But since you apparently don't see anything wrong with lumping dissimilar wrongs together (in a pathetically clear attempt to diminish the far more serious ones, since they don't tally on "your side"), how would you feel if someone sought to downplay the seriousness of the Shoah by comparing it to what's transpired in Gaza over the past seven weeks? Would you be cool if they said these recent events, which they deem excessive and horrific in nature, essentially offset the horrors of the Shoah?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is saying the death of Paul Kessler is not tragic. However, it looks like it happened after some type of altercation or dispute at the rally. He was not singled out and targeted.

I think previous PPs were just pointing out that these three men, along with the boy who was killed and his mom who was stabbed as well as the Stanford student hit by a car, were all attacked while they were just living their regular lives. And that is concerning.

I generally agree with you with one but -
Using the words like “feeling

Not exactly like the six year old boy. These were men walking around in keffiyahs. This is absolutely a tragic hate crime. Just should note that they were openly walking around in Palestinian scarves that have been frequently worn lately as a symbol of Palestinian nationalism. Again, that is not a crime and what happened was awful. But wouldn’t equate that to a six year old who makes no political statement.

Maybe they were wearing a keffiyah, which is a scarf commonly worn by Palestinians, because they're Palestinian? I'm 99% sure they had worn a keffiyah prior to Oct. 7. Should they have to stop wearing one because someone could view it as a political statement?

What about a star of David necklace? Or a kippah? Should someone who worn those previously stop wearing them because it can be viewed as a political statement?

I understand what you are saying. But I don't agree. They were out for a walk after attending an 8 year olds birthday party, not making a political statement.

I agree- I said it was absolutely wrong and a hate crime.

It’s different than a kippah or a Star of David or taqiya etc, which are all religious symbols. The Palestinian scarf is a symbol of nationalism and that movement has many non-peaceful associations. And at this moment in time, it is an inflammatory and very intentional accessory. I also wouldn’t advise Israeli supporters to walk around wearing a tee shirt with an Israeli flag on it, precisely because it is a statement due to current events and also because there are a lot of nuts out there.

All of that said, they obviously didn’t deserve this. The man waving an Israeli flag didn’t deserve his death either. Neither did the six year old boy and neither did the tons of kids on college campuses facing antisemitism.

Do you understand that there are degrees of wrongdoing? Feeling that you have to hide from fellow students in a library is quite a stretch from being confronted on the street by a dead-eyed stranger and then being shot in cold blood.

They are all not "the same" type of undeserved experiences.

I agree with you with one exception. When you use words like “feeling they need to hide” it diminishes the fact that they were actually threatened with assault and HAD to hide. They didn’t “chose” to hide any more than the teacher in Queens who “chose” to hide from the mob of students trying very hard to assault her. I see it as the teacher and the students at Cooper Union were lucky they could hide and didn’t get hurt. Is that really the bar we want to set? I want no hate crimes, how about that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it weird that most of the articles describe them as “Palestinians” with American ciitizenship/permanent residency rather than Americans of Palestinian decent.

Because they are from Palestine. And a permanent resident is not an American.

Two are American citizens. Which make them Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is saying the death of Paul Kessler is not tragic. However, it looks like it happened after some type of altercation or dispute at the rally. He was not singled out and targeted.

I think previous PPs were just pointing out that these three men, along with the boy who was killed and his mom who was stabbed as well as the Stanford student hit by a car, were all attacked while they were just living their regular lives. And that is concerning.

I generally agree with you with one but -
Using the words like “feeling

Not exactly like the six year old boy. These were men walking around in keffiyahs. This is absolutely a tragic hate crime. Just should note that they were openly walking around in Palestinian scarves that have been frequently worn lately as a symbol of Palestinian nationalism. Again, that is not a crime and what happened was awful. But wouldn’t equate that to a six year old who makes no political statement.

Maybe they were wearing a keffiyah, which is a scarf commonly worn by Palestinians, because they're Palestinian? I'm 99% sure they had worn a keffiyah prior to Oct. 7. Should they have to stop wearing one because someone could view it as a political statement?

What about a star of David necklace? Or a kippah? Should someone who worn those previously stop wearing them because it can be viewed as a political statement?

I understand what you are saying. But I don't agree. They were out for a walk after attending an 8 year olds birthday party, not making a political statement.

I agree- I said it was absolutely wrong and a hate crime.

It’s different than a kippah or a Star of David or taqiya etc, which are all religious symbols. The Palestinian scarf is a symbol of nationalism and that movement has many non-peaceful associations. And at this moment in time, it is an inflammatory and very intentional accessory. I also wouldn’t advise Israeli supporters to walk around wearing a tee shirt with an Israeli flag on it, precisely because it is a statement due to current events and also because there are a lot of nuts out there.

All of that said, they obviously didn’t deserve this. The man waving an Israeli flag didn’t deserve his death either. Neither did the six year old boy and neither did the tons of kids on college campuses facing antisemitism.

Do you understand that there are degrees of wrongdoing? Feeling that you have to hide from fellow students in a library is quite a stretch from being confronted on the street by a dead-eyed stranger and then being shot in cold blood.

They are all not "the same" type of undeserved experiences.

I agree with you with one exception. When you use words like “feeling they need to hide” it diminishes the fact that they were actually threatened with assault and HAD to hide. They didn’t “chose” to hide any more than the teacher in Queens who “chose” to hide from the mob of students trying very hard to assault her. I see it as the teacher and the students at Cooper Union were lucky they could hide and didn’t get hurt. Is that really the bar we want to set? I want no hate crimes, how about that?

Yes, you are right. I should have said "Having to hide from fellow students ... "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is saying the death of Paul Kessler is not tragic. However, it looks like it happened after some type of altercation or dispute at the rally. He was not singled out and targeted.

I think previous PPs were just pointing out that these three men, along with the boy who was killed and his mom who was stabbed as well as the Stanford student hit by a car, were all attacked while they were just living their regular lives. And that is concerning.

Not exactly like the six year old boy. These were men walking around in keffiyahs. This is absolutely a tragic hate crime. Just should note that they were openly walking around in Palestinian scarves that have been frequently worn lately as a symbol of Palestinian nationalism. Again, that is not a crime and what happened was awful. But wouldn’t equate that to a six year old who makes no political statement.

Maybe they were wearing a keffiyah, which is a scarf commonly worn by Palestinians, because they're Palestinian? I'm 99% sure they had worn a keffiyah prior to Oct. 7. Should they have to stop wearing one because someone could view it as a political statement?

What about a star of David necklace? Or a kippah? Should someone who worn those previously stop wearing them because it can be viewed as a political statement?

I understand what you are saying. But I don't agree. They were out for a walk after attending an 8 year olds birthday party, not making a political statement.

I agree- I said it was absolutely wrong and a hate crime.

It’s different than a kippah or a Star of David or taqiya etc, which are all religious symbols. The Palestinian scarf is a symbol of nationalism and that movement has many non-peaceful associations. And at this moment in time, it is an inflammatory and very intentional accessory. I also wouldn’t advise Israeli supporters to walk around wearing a tee shirt with an Israeli flag on it, precisely because it is a statement due to current events and also because there are a lot of nuts out there.

All of that said, they obviously didn’t deserve this. The man waving an Israeli flag didn’t deserve his death either. Neither did the six year old boy and neither did the tons of kids on college campuses facing antisemitism.

Only two of the men were wearing a keffiyeh. Was the third man also making a political statement because he was walking with the other two?

I guess what I have an issue with is you differentiating this from the killing of the little boy and saying they were being inflammatory by wearing it. I feel that kind of implies that these men did something to draw attention to themselves. If they had just not worn that traditional piece of cloth, they could have avoided all of this.

I can give a different analogy. My husband and I are Muslim. For many years after 9-11 DH had a long beard and regularly wore a kufi and a thobe when going out, none of which are required in Islam. Would you consider his appearance inflammatory?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is saying the death of Paul Kessler is not tragic. However, it looks like it happened after some type of altercation or dispute at the rally. He was not singled out and targeted.

I think previous PPs were just pointing out that these three men, along with the boy who was killed and his mom who was stabbed as well as the Stanford student hit by a car, were all attacked while they were just living their regular lives. And that is concerning.

Not exactly like the six year old boy. These were men walking around in keffiyahs. This is absolutely a tragic hate crime. Just should note that they were openly walking around in Palestinian scarves that have been frequently worn lately as a symbol of Palestinian nationalism. Again, that is not a crime and what happened was awful. But wouldn’t equate that to a six year old who makes no political statement.

Maybe they were wearing a keffiyah, which is a scarf commonly worn by Palestinians, because they're Palestinian? I'm 99% sure they had worn a keffiyah prior to Oct. 7. Should they have to stop wearing one because someone could view it as a political statement?

What about a star of David necklace? Or a kippah? Should someone who worn those previously stop wearing them because it can be viewed as a political statement?

I understand what you are saying. But I don't agree. They were out for a walk after attending an 8 year olds birthday party, not making a political statement.

Sadly yes. Symbols' connotations can change and we don't get to always control the narrative. I am Hindu and have tons of jewelry/art work handed down to me by elders with Swastikas, which is a Hindu/Sanskrit symbol 1000s of years old that the Nazis took and now symbolizes genocide rather than auspiciousness and good luck (the actual meaning).

I don't wear anything with a Swastika outside my own home or temple for fear of offending anyone, except in India [where few people ever connect it to Nazis].

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is saying the death of Paul Kessler is not tragic. However, it looks like it happened after some type of altercation or dispute at the rally. He was not singled out and targeted.

I think previous PPs were just pointing out that these three men, along with the boy who was killed and his mom who was stabbed as well as the Stanford student hit by a car, were all attacked while they were just living their regular lives. And that is concerning.

Not exactly like the six year old boy. These were men walking around in keffiyahs. This is absolutely a tragic hate crime. Just should note that they were openly walking around in Palestinian scarves that have been frequently worn lately as a symbol of Palestinian nationalism. Again, that is not a crime and what happened was awful. But wouldn’t equate that to a six year old who makes no political statement.

Maybe they were wearing a keffiyah, which is a scarf commonly worn by Palestinians, because they're Palestinian? I'm 99% sure they had worn a keffiyah prior to Oct. 7. Should they have to stop wearing one because someone could view it as a political statement?

What about a star of David necklace? Or a kippah? Should someone who worn those previously stop wearing them because it can be viewed as a political statement?

I understand what you are saying. But I don't agree. They were out for a walk after attending an 8 year olds birthday party, not making a political statement.

I agree- I said it was absolutely wrong and a hate crime.

It’s different than a kippah or a Star of David or taqiya etc, which are all religious symbols. The Palestinian scarf is a symbol of nationalism and that movement has many non-peaceful associations. And at this moment in time, it is an inflammatory and very intentional accessory. I also wouldn’t advise Israeli supporters to walk around wearing a tee shirt with an Israeli flag on it, precisely because it is a statement due to current events and also because there are a lot of nuts out there.

All of that said, they obviously didn’t deserve this. The man waving an Israeli flag didn’t deserve his death either. Neither did the six year old boy and neither did the tons of kids on college campuses facing antisemitism.

Only two of the men were wearing a keffiyeh. Was the third man also making a political statement because he was walking with the other two?

I guess what I have an issue with is you differentiating this from the killing of the little boy and saying they were being inflammatory by wearing it. I feel that kind of implies that these men did something to draw attention to themselves. If they had just not worn that traditional piece of cloth, they could have avoided all of this.

I can give a different analogy. My husband and I are Muslim. For many years after 9-11 DH had a long beard and regularly wore a kufi and a thobe when going out, none of which are required in Islam. Would you consider his appearance inflammatory?

No- for the same reason that a kippah would not the same.

They probably *would* have avoided being targeted had they not been wearing the scarf. It should not have happened to them and it’s horrible, but no one would have known their views if they hadn’t worn it.

I’m Jewish and don’t really feel comfortable even wearing a Jewish star necklace these days. I certainly wouldn’t walk around town wearing an Israeli flag unless I was in a designated spot like a rally or some cultural celebration. I’m not saying this to justify what happened, I’m saying it’s a sad reality.

[Anonymous]

Have any republicans condemned the shooting in Vermont? Any of the presidential candidates?

I have seen several statements from some democrats but not from the republicans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3 brilliant, young Palestinian college students from Brown, Harvard and Trinity shot by some hate filled fanatic in Burlington VT Saturday evening while walking to a friend's home for a post Thanksgiving Dinner over college break: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/26/palestinian-students-shot-wounded-vermont

They were targeted after speaking Arabic in public

This isn't someone merely threatening to gun violence like the Chinese American student at Cornell- but instead Arab college students actually followed and shot - where is the swift demand for FBI investigation like happened at Cornell ? This was actual lethal violence, not just threats.

FBI is investigating. Calm down.
https://www.wcax.com/2023/11/26/police-say-three-shot-burlington/

At Cornell, when a mentally ill Chinese American student posted death threats, he was arrested within 24 hours, despite his having used a VPN. The Governor of NY went immediately to Cornell to demand all law enforcement immediate focus on the case.

Last night, 3 Palestinian students were actually shot - not threats- actually shot . Where is the Governor of VT ? Why is the Governor not immediately holding a press conference ? Why isn't Sanders ? This shooting of Arab college students happened while they were headed to dinner at a friend's house in Bernie's home base . Why isn't Bernie holding a presser and demanding FBI find the culprit and immediately declare the hate crime charges ?

Meanwhile, the mentally ill Cornell student, apologized for his posts - prior to his arrest and his mother stated he was mentally ill and yet neither NY Governor or FBI shared that publicly. Why ? Because he was a helpful " poster child" for antisemitism on College campuses and they didn't want anything challenging that narrative getting out

First of all why do you keep saying Chinese American? What are you trying to prove here? Second, the Governor and Sanders both put out statements. The Cornell student was not arrested within 24 hours, it was an online terror campaign that span several days, calling for Jewish women to be raped and Jewish students to be shot. Also, he is not mentally ill, he has depression. Are you 5?

+100
The PP is grotesque for trying to spin what was a truly terrifying experience for Jewish students at Cornell. So many inaccuracies and flat-out false claims in her post.

Because the college student is Chinese American and in his apology- written before his arrest- he admitted in writing that as an Asian he had " no standing in this fight thousands of miles away" :https://cornellsun.com/2023/11/09/patrick-dai-24-to-remain-detained-in-broome-county-awaiting-trial/

Yet, that did not stop opportunists from jumping to portray him as the poster child for why college campuses aren't safe if students are allowed to call for a ceasefire or advocate for Palestinian rights

You really need to take a seat. Damn right college campuses aren't safe with monsters like this around. Here's what Patrick Dai posted online: In a post in an online discussion board, prosecutors said, the student allegedly threatened to "shoot up" a campus building. In another post, he said he would "stab" or "slit the throat" of Jewish men, and rape or throw off a cliff Jewish women he encounters on campus, according to the prosecutors.

He also said he would behead Jewish babies and threatened to "bring an assault rifle to campus and shoot all you" Jewish people, prosecutors said, attributing the words to Dai.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/01/us/cornell-university-antisemitic-threat-suspect-wednesday/index.html

The posts were written under usernames referencing Hamas, and they used anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian slogans, according to an affidavit attached to the criminal complaint.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cornell-university-says-suspect-made-antisemitic-threats-police-custod-rcna123020

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have any republicans condemned the shooting in Vermont? Any of the presidential candidates?

I have seen several statements from some democrats but not from the republicans?

OMG, seriously? Which Democrats have condemned the death of Paul Kessler? How about the disgusting statements from Patrick Dai?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3 brilliant, young Palestinian college students from Brown, Harvard and Trinity shot by some hate filled fanatic in Burlington VT Saturday evening while walking to a friend's home for a post Thanksgiving Dinner over college break: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/26/palestinian-students-shot-wounded-vermont

They were targeted after speaking Arabic in public

This isn't someone merely threatening to gun violence like the Chinese American student at Cornell- but instead Arab college students actually followed and shot - where is the swift demand for FBI investigation like happened at Cornell ? This was actual lethal violence, not just threats.

FBI is investigating. Calm down.
https://www.wcax.com/2023/11/26/police-say-three-shot-burlington/

At Cornell, when a mentally ill Chinese American student posted death threats, he was arrested within 24 hours, despite his having used a VPN. The Governor of NY went immediately to Cornell to demand all law enforcement immediate focus on the case.

Last night, 3 Palestinian students were actually shot - not threats- actually shot . Where is the Governor of VT ? Why is the Governor not immediately holding a press conference ? Why isn't Sanders ? This shooting of Arab college students happened while they were headed to dinner at a friend's house in Bernie's home base . Why isn't Bernie holding a presser and demanding FBI find the culprit and immediately declare the hate crime charges ?

Meanwhile, the mentally ill Cornell student, apologized for his posts - prior to his arrest and his mother stated he was mentally ill and yet neither NY Governor or FBI shared that publicly. Why ? Because he was a helpful " poster child" for antisemitism on College campuses and they didn't want anything challenging that narrative getting out

First of all why do you keep saying Chinese American? What are you trying to prove here? Second, the Governor and Sanders both put out statements. The Cornell student was not arrested within 24 hours, it was an online terror campaign that span several days, calling for Jewish women to be raped and Jewish students to be shot. Also, he is not mentally ill, he has depression. Are you 5?

+100
The PP is grotesque for trying to spin what was a truly terrifying experience for Jewish students at Cornell. So many inaccuracies and flat-out false claims in her post.

Because the college student is Chinese American and in his apology- written before his arrest- he admitted in writing that as an Asian he had " no standing in this fight thousands of miles away" :https://cornellsun.com/2023/11/09/patrick-dai-24-to-remain-detained-in-broome-county-awaiting-trial/

Yet, that did not stop opportunists from jumping to portray him as the poster child for why college campuses aren't safe if students are allowed to call for a ceasefire or advocate for Palestinian rights

What kind of world salad is that? He threatened students. If it had been a threat against Muslim students you’d be crying that the repercussions weren’t strong enough.

Exactly. WTH does his "apology" have to do with anything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So not a college student associated with Hillel.

But rather a "very fine person" - I wonder who he voted for and what news outlets he consumes.

(I don't really wonder)

What a tragedy for those kids.

Please share with us your sources for the bolded. We'll wait while you spin something up.