Big 3 Nightmare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

As a parent struggling with sending our kids to private or keeping them in our strong public, I’m starting to think we may as well save our 150k per year for our 3 kids. While we can afford tuition, college is our one and main goal for secondary schools.

Of course you don’t waste your money that way!!! Save it all to pay for med school for the three of them.

Pp here. I know some people can afford or prioritize the learning experience and consider that worth 50k per year. I also want my children to have a positive school experience. My children are getting good grades, have lots of friends and are happy. I’m not sure the extra commute and 50k per year is worth it for a potentially worse college outcome. We are relatively new to the DC area. Dh and I are public school kids. DH graduated top 5 of his regular high school and I attended a magnet high in another state. I go back and forth between just keeping my kids where they are or which private school to strategically send them to. DH only cares about college outcome so not sold on shelling out the money. He has friends who did attend top colleges and their children are not getting j to their parents’ alma maters even with legacy status.

I mean you could literally donate $100k to legal aid every year instead. At some point that kind of reasoning has to kick in.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This thread seems to be primarily about GDS. Is Sidwell similar or STA/NCS?

Also, how does GDS address the needs of families who are seeking need based and merit aid? Do they allow those families to apply more broadly? DC is on considerable FA at another school and I would not be ok if DC had to limit options for matching with a school with adequate funding because of arbitrary school rules.

The NCS process is much more transparent and you have access to more data. That does not mean everyone at NCS is thrilled with their outcomes or with the process, but having been through it at both schools, we found the NCS approach less stressful. There are very few scenarios where having less information is better than having more information.

You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS.
Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin.
Not throwing shade at these schools. They are excellent but lots of kids who had a more chill HS experience also end up at the same place. How is the stress and crazy amount of work at top high schools like GDS and NCS worth it?

Bates parent here from a highly regarded DMV public school. Your mindset is 1990s. The median GPA for my kid's HS for Bates was 4.6w. Wisconsin is a similarly tough admit nowadays. None of the kids who go to these schools from the DC area had a "chill HS experience." Sorry that your kid has to slum with mine, we're very glad that we chose not to put our kids in overpriced mediocre privates only to end up in the exact same place as hardworking public school kids. Hope your kid didn't inherit your sense of entitlement.

Is your highly regarded public school in MoCo? because if it is, everyone is aware now of the unlimited retakes, the C + B = A as the final grade, and equity-driven GPA outcomes. I'm not saying your kid isn't deserving. I am saying that any moderately intelligent kid attending at MoCo HS will emerge with a 4.2w or better just by breathing.

This is not the case at GDS, NCS, STA and especially Sidwell, where two English teachers will not give As. To anyone.

I don’t understand why you are being rude. C +B = B in MCPS. It does not equal an A. I agree that there is grade inflation in MCPS but the kids work hard. If you have a problem with the English teachers at Sidwell, you should try to address it at your school rather than trying to feel better by insulting MCPS. Some of the MCPS teachers are also pretty stingy with As.

Unless you've had a kid at GDS, NCS, etc, you can't say they're comparable. They're not. My kid is on a sports team with all MCPS kids who take the hardest classes, very high GPAs, etc, and they don't work even half as hard as their counterparts in top privates. Not saying they're not smart, but their high school experience is absolutely chill in comparison.

My kid went to Jackson Reed and is now at an Ivy. She took 6 APs junior year and almost had a breakdown because there was so much work. She was up until 2am every night. She also had multiple intensive activities that required a lot of time. I’m not saying that JR is as good as GDS but there are some dynamite kids there and I’m sure MCPS is the same. JR still does rankings and my daughter was not even top 5. Every school, public and private, has some amazing kids. And they are all competing for the same schools

Yes, my kids came out of DCPS and many of their friends are at JR and some are very impressive. However, being up well past midnight is par for the course for the baseline (not AP) course in even 9th and 10th grade at some of these Big3 schools. Then 6 APs would be impossible. My kids' schools give 1.5 hours a night per AP course. That ends would be 9 hours of homework nightly if a kid took 6 APs.

I think what the frustration is, is that the Big private school kids are doing the equivalent of your daughter's JR course load every year for 4 years, getting a mixture of As and Bs (because many teachers simply don't give As) and then have no chance in hell of the Ivies or (as of 2023) any school in the top 40.

If I had to do this again, I may not have moved them and we would have stuck with JR. Their high school years have trained them to be phenomenal students but their options for college have really narrowed by our choice to move them from DCPS to private.

The point that the pp is trying to make and you missed is that the amount of outside work required at schools like GDS and NCS is excessive and has diminishing returns after you reach a certain point. The top kids at Walls, JR and MCPS are as good as top private schools and they pose stiff competition whether you and I like it or not.

I've had kids in private, base schools and a magnet. The workload at the magnet was way above the workload at the private and the kids were smarter. The kids at the base school with educated parents were at the same level or above the private school kids.

We live in an affluent neighborhood with a lot of smart people, both parents and kids. Both my kids attend public and many of their friends’ parents went to Harvard, MIT, Penn, UVA, etc. DH and I attended ivy grad schools and T30 colleges.

All of our professional colleagues send their kids to private. I don’t think the private school kids are smarter but they are more polished.

Our public has a large amount of super smart Asian kids. I’m not sure if they are naturally smart or hard working. They are probably a mixture of both.

Private school kids have tutors too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread seems to be primarily about GDS. Is Sidwell similar or STA/NCS?

Also, how does GDS address the needs of families who are seeking need based and merit aid? Do they allow those families to apply more broadly? DC is on considerable FA at another school and I would not be ok if DC had to limit options for matching with a school with adequate funding because of arbitrary school rules.

The NCS process is much more transparent and you have access to more data. That does not mean everyone at NCS is thrilled with their outcomes or with the process, but having been through it at both schools, we found the NCS approach less stressful. There are very few scenarios where having less information is better than having more information.

You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS.
Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin.
Not throwing shade at these schools. They are excellent but lots of kids who had a more chill HS experience also end up at the same place. How is the stress and crazy amount of work at top high schools like GDS and NCS worth it?

Bates parent here from a highly regarded DMV public school. Your mindset is 1990s. The median GPA for my kid's HS for Bates was 4.6w. Wisconsin is a similarly tough admit nowadays. None of the kids who go to these schools from the DC area had a "chill HS experience." Sorry that your kid has to slum with mine, we're very glad that we chose not to put our kids in overpriced mediocre privates only to end up in the exact same place as hardworking public school kids. Hope your kid didn't inherit your sense of entitlement.

Is your highly regarded public school in MoCo? because if it is, everyone is aware now of the unlimited retakes, the C + B = A as the final grade, and equity-driven GPA outcomes. I'm not saying your kid isn't deserving. I am saying that any moderately intelligent kid attending at MoCo HS will emerge with a 4.2w or better just by breathing.

This is not the case at GDS, NCS, STA and especially Sidwell, where two English teachers will not give As. To anyone.

I don’t understand why you are being rude. C +B = B in MCPS. It does not equal an A. I agree that there is grade inflation in MCPS but the kids work hard. If you have a problem with the English teachers at Sidwell, you should try to address it at your school rather than trying to feel better by insulting MCPS. Some of the MCPS teachers are also pretty stingy with As.

Unless you've had a kid at GDS, NCS, etc, you can't say they're comparable. They're not. My kid is on a sports team with all MCPS kids who take the hardest classes, very high GPAs, etc, and they don't work even half as hard as their counterparts in top privates. Not saying they're not smart, but their high school experience is absolutely chill in comparison.

My kid went to Jackson Reed and is now at an Ivy. She took 6 APs junior year and almost had a breakdown because there was so much work. She was up until 2am every night. She also had multiple intensive activities that required a lot of time. I’m not saying that JR is as good as GDS but there are some dynamite kids there and I’m sure MCPS is the same. JR still does rankings and my daughter was not even top 5. Every school, public and private, has some amazing kids. And they are all competing for the same schools

Yes, my kids came out of DCPS and many of their friends are at JR and some are very impressive. However, being up well past midnight is par for the course for the baseline (not AP) course in even 9th and 10th grade at some of these Big3 schools. Then 6 APs would be impossible. My kids' schools give 1.5 hours a night per AP course. That ends would be 9 hours of homework nightly if a kid took 6 APs.

I think what the frustration is, is that the Big private school kids are doing the equivalent of your daughter's JR course load every year for 4 years, getting a mixture of As and Bs (because many teachers simply don't give As) and then have no chance in hell of the Ivies or (as of 2023) any school in the top 40.

If I had to do this again, I may not have moved them and we would have stuck with JR. Their high school years have trained them to be phenomenal students but their options for college have really narrowed by our choice to move them from DCPS to private.

The point that the pp is trying to make and you missed is that the amount of outside work required at schools like GDS and NCS is excessive and has diminishing returns after you reach a certain point. The top kids at Walls, JR and MCPS are as good as top private schools and they pose stiff competition whether you and I like it or not.

I've had kids in private, base schools and a magnet. The workload at the magnet was way above the workload at the private and the kids were smarter. The kids at the base school with educated parents were at the same level or above the private school kids.

We live in an affluent neighborhood with a lot of smart people, both parents and kids. Both my kids attend public and many of their friends’ parents went to Harvard, MIT, Penn, UVA, etc. DH and I attended ivy grad schools and T30 colleges.

All of our professional colleagues send their kids to private. I don’t think the private school kids are smarter but they are more polished.

Our public has a large amount of super smart Asian kids. I’m not sure if they are naturally smart or hard working. They are probably a mixture of both.

So true!! I can spot them in a coffee shop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a parent of a kid in a Big 3 ish school in another city. Your kid is getting a great education and great preparation for college. From where your (and my) kid is coming, they will be fine no matter where they go. They have tremendous privilege and advantages. It will be ok. Really.

I have 2 kids: one at a LAC and one going to a school ranked 75-100. Neither is Ivy and I’m totally fine with that.

At least being at a big 3 privates, you can hope they will marry a high school sweetheart from an upper class family later down the road. Instead of marrying into a middle class or lower family from the basic state university.

[Anonymous]

Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

Would 3.4 put you at bottom half of class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a parent of a kid in a Big 3 ish school in another city. Your kid is getting a great education and great preparation for college. From where your (and my) kid is coming, they will be fine no matter where they go. They have tremendous privilege and advantages. It will be ok. Really.

I have 2 kids: one at a LAC and one going to a school ranked 75-100. Neither is Ivy and I’m totally fine with that.

At least being at a big 3 privates, you can hope they will marry a high school sweetheart from an upper class family later down the road. Instead of marrying into a middle class or lower family from the basic state university.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Who said that 30-40% are the smartest? They certainly may be connected. But even with those stats it’s evident that the majority of Ivy kids don’t come from private. I’ll say it again - the *whole point* of private is to protect your children’s privilege to be average and still get into a great college. The brillian strivers going to MIT are in RMIB. Your “big 3” kid is not that smart and hardworking - and that is the whole point: they do not have to be. It’s the literal definition of privilege.

We can all just ignore your posts going forward. You have made it very clear that you resent kids who you deem to be “privileged”, many of whom are extraordinary, and somehow believe RM is the sole stomping ground of brilliant kids. News flash - you are very wrong. Many people would not even consider RM for myriad reasons. And yes - many, many Big 3 students ARE that smart and hard-working. Your insecurities and bitterness are blinding you to reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

Would 3.4 put you at bottom half of class?

yes, can you share a bit more about this? Would you say that the 3.4 is about the 50% mark?
Also, was this in the top math, science, language classes (Calc BC or even beyond calc, etc) or below?
Thank you, thank you for any thoughts you can give. Those of us at the school with younger kids are finding it really hard to know what is really going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a parent of a kid in a Big 3 ish school in another city. Your kid is getting a great education and great preparation for college. From where your (and my) kid is coming, they will be fine no matter where they go. They have tremendous privilege and advantages. It will be ok. Really.

I have 2 kids: one at a LAC and one going to a school ranked 75-100. Neither is Ivy and I’m totally fine with that.

At least being at a big 3 privates, you can hope they will marry a high school sweetheart from an upper class family later down the road. Instead of marrying into a middle class or lower family from the basic state university.

People marry college and grad school sweethearts more than high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

As a parent struggling with sending our kids to private or keeping them in our strong public, I’m starting to think we may as well save our 150k per year for our 3 kids. While we can afford tuition, college is our one and main goal for secondary schools.

Of course you don’t waste your money that way!!! Save it all to pay for med school for the three of them.

Pp here. I know some people can afford or prioritize the learning experience and consider that worth 50k per year. I also want my children to have a positive school experience. My children are getting good grades, have lots of friends and are happy. I’m not sure the extra commute and 50k per year is worth it for a potentially worse college outcome. We are relatively new to the DC area. Dh and I are public school kids. DH graduated top 5 of his regular high school and I attended a magnet high in another state. I go back and forth between just keeping my kids where they are or which private school to strategically send them to. DH only cares about college outcome so not sold on shelling out the money. He has friends who did attend top colleges and their children are not getting j to their parents’ alma maters even with legacy status.

Unless your kids have the hooks that colleges want when they are high school seniors, I'm not sure how much strategizing you can do. The challenge is that we don't even know what the hooks will be in ten years time.

Ivy legacy didn't work for our kid, but she was competing with super stars at her magnet high school. It wasn't a top choice anyway, not being as highly ranked in CS as other schools.

The first gen hook also became a thing when she was applying, while most of the parents at the magnet high school are highly educated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

Sorry to hear that. Her solid education at NCS will serve her for life.
I hope she is happy with her choices but she can always transfer to a more selective school in a year or two if she wants

I had an old colleague who used to brag about her daughter ALL the time. Daughter went to NCS. I didn’t talk to them during Covid and her daughter ended up at third tier school. I thought for sure she would be Ivy material. Now that I have kids approaching high school, I realize how competitive the college universe has become. While her daughter may have been a superstar as a child, I guess she didn’t shine at NCS.

If the kid graduated 2020-2023, the deck was stacked against her. Unfair to say she didn’t shine. Institutional priorities changed and a private school coastal kid was on the wrong side of that change. Especially a white kid, no hooks, just a a good student with solid ECs. Since 2020, that’s been a formula for lottery ticket top 30, else outcome most likely is 50-150 ranked college

Just the facts. Look at the instas for this year and last year for all private schools around here. Of course they are incomplete and we don’t know accomplishments, but take our kids who have a sport next to their name (recruits), and I’d wager the median admit is far lower ranked school than 5 years ago. It’s why none of the top privates even publicly report matriculation data by class like they used to. They bunch it into “in the last 5 years, NCS students have attended XYZ schools”

We all know what’s happening. Not fair to say kid didn’t “shine”

Plus NCS has gone grade deflationary in last few years.

I understand there are strange dynamics at private schools (hard to make a complaint on your own and find that others that purport to support your position in private simply melt away and leave you hanging)...but how can there not be an effort on behalf of many parents to confront the excessive homework and grade deflation.

Wasn't the "bargain" that it would result in top college admissions? I mean in all honesty..what is the point of making kids do so much homework in HS? Is there some philosophy behind this (similar to a Montessori or other educational philosophy)? Why would you then also hit them with low grades?

Well, at our school, parents are always painted as being crazy and they are not interested in anything we have to say. Nothing here, move along...talk to the hand.

[Anonymous]

Now that Big 3 is useless for college admission, I wonder if Big 3 DDs will soon be advised by parents and college counselors to get pregnant senior year to lock in connection with top tier classmate.

[Anonymous]

We’re moving from September to June to to our summer house in the Midwest from 2023-2027 for our current 8th grader’s college admissions prospects.

[Anonymous]

Omg - many reasons I sent my kids to a big 3 (mostly to learn to write) but seriously who they hang around was zero on the list!

Meanwhile as posters have pointed out GDS outcomes looked great for last year as did NCS. Is there a noticeable drop for class of 2023 and if so does anyone know why?