Coalition4TJ’s request to block TJ admissions process DENIED 6-3 by Supreme Court

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NP. I understand both sides of the argument, and both have good points. But to me, the main problem is that TJ should never have been set up this way in the first place. TJ is publicly funded. It was always very questionable to set up a public school in such a manner that taxpayers have to fund with their property taxes but can't send their children there.

If any of the successful TJ alumni want to set up a private school to carry on the tradition, have at it. But to me, this has always been an inappropriate way to operate a publicly funded high school.

Uhhh, I pay for the school basketball team through my taxes and can't send my kids to play on the team.

+1 - Public schools spend a lot of money and resources on sports that are super competitive. My kid loves swimming and wanted to get into HS swim team, but couldn't qualify. All I thought at the time was my kid wasn't good enough. May be we should have complained that the kids who got selected in trials paid a lot of money for swim schools/coaches, swim team memberships that we couldn't afford i.e., time or money. Obviously we don't have the leg up in the game. Now I think its totally unfair and we should demand a quota for kids who are not 'prepped' for the sports and may be if my kid were given a chance and she would have done quite well - who knows?.

OMG, not this again. When will you grasp that sports are not the same as public education? The analogy is flawed. Please move on.

Right, sport superstars make lot more money than academic superstars . In addition, the main FOCUS/PURPOSE of public schools is to educate not sports.

Not sure I understand - So if something is a "main focus/purpose" then equity applies, but if its not the main focus/purpose we have a competitive merit based process for it? Please explain when merit should apply and when it should not.

No I think you misunderstand. All children deserve equal access to these programs. Not just ones whose parents can afford outside enrichment. Spots on the other hand have noting to do with school. As far as I'm concerned they shouldn't be something the county pays for but if they are yes they should provide equal access to all students. The NBA however can operate however it wants.

Depends on how you define "equal access". If you mean anyone can attend if they chose to, then that's an asinine contention. The reality of the world is that most "access" is the result of some prior choice or effort. A person can't start working at a federal job just by enrolling - they have to apply, they have to satisfy the requirements, and then they have to engage in competition against other candidates. There is a reason why the goals of free men in a liberal democracy were characterized by the Declaration of Independence as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness because no one is guaranteed the results they want just by showing up, but they are free to pursue it.

Why not let them try and if they don't maintain a certain standard, demote them back to their base school? That gives a year for them to try and make the cut vs. some highly manufactured application and test score that they've prepped for?

Normally, I might agree with this sentiment. My issue is that trying TJ for a year and then dropping back to the base school undoubtedly will harm kids significantly. They will feel like failures and have worse grades for college admissions than they would have had if they remained at base school. I think it's great to give kids a chance if you have every expectation that they're likely to succeed. It's morally questionable to push kids into TJ who aren't ready, just to score political points, and then wash your hands of them as soon as they struggle.

Some sort of baseline proficiency test and teacher recommendations would go a long way toward ensuring that kids are not being set up to fail.

But they know this going into it. And that's part of life: sometimes you fail at things. And no one is saying "push them" into TJ. You can go or not. I would agree with a baseline proficiency test before allowing them to try. But, if they pass that or meet the standard, and they VOLUNTARILY go with the expectations set out for them, let them try. It's a PUBLIC school and it should be open to that, imo.

I'm the PP, and I agree with you. If kids pass whatever tests that show they are likely to succeed at TJ, they absolutely should be given the chance to try. I don't want FCPS to push kids in who are not likely to succeed just so they can get better press releases or score political points. FCPS already kind of does this with AP exams. They push URM kids into taking AP classes and exams for which they aren't qualified, because the entities rating schools go by participation rates of URMs and not pass rates.

The admitted kids are well qualified.

Based on what? Grades earned virtually during a pandemic when they were handing out As to everyone? Flowery essays? Getting free points for checking the FARMS box, being at an "underrepresented MS" (i.e. a gen ed kid at a non AAP center), and/or being an English learner?

All of those factors are just as deserving as mommy and daddy being able to afford a $4,000 prep center.

You'll need to show your work on that argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: American Idol. In the early rounds at least, an amazing “shower singer” would easily beat an untalented person who had years of singing lessons. With singing strong raw talent is undeniable.

+1 Good analogy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Another idiot who doesn’t believe that a student can take the test cold and succeed. What’s your connection to TJHSST again?

Does seeing the format of the questions help at all?

It wasn't just seeing the format. Many claimed they saw the actual questions ahead of time.

That's a great reason to eliminate the Quant-Q. It doesn't explain why the process was gutted to the point that it's impossible to distinguish between a highly gifted kid and a somewhat above average one. They could have retained a baseline proficiency test, teacher recommendations, more substantial problem solving essays, credit for notable accomplishments etc. while still minimizing the impact of extreme prep.

Well with people buying the test the quantQ didn't help differentiate between students either.

just a complete digression to dehumanise Asian kids.

No one is trying to dehumanized Asian kids. People just don't want access to expensive prep centers to be a significant factor to get into a public school. Pretty sure Asian kids aren't the one paying the $4,000 and trying to game the system. That's all on adults.

The prep center is just an excuse, a red herring to distract from the underlying racist discrimination against Asians. Parents, not just Asian parents, are all resourceful when it comes to the upbringing of their children. Even if you narrowly tailor a law outlawing academic prep centers and tutoring, as authoritarian China has recently done (it's true, look it up), parents will find some other way to raise their kids how they see fit - and some of them will go to great lengths to prepare their kids for a future in STEMP field and target a high school like TJ.

No I think it's an actual problem when the majority of kids being admitted attend one of these centers. This reduces the chances of anyone who doesn't attend. The allegations that one center even had test questions is also concerning.

Unless the prep center is doing something illegal or unethical - like cheating or bribery - there is nothing wrong with one center being successful at providing the type of academic tutoring that makes students successful at applying to a specific selective school. I'll keep reminding people of the fact that the kids who attend this prep school are a self-selected population. Kids don't just show up randomly at this prep center for general tutoring and then magically test into TJ. Kids show up there because they 1) specifically want to attend TJ and 2) already have the academic credentials that make admissions highly likely. I would wager that 100% of all kids who got a 1600 on their SAT, took a sample test from prior test sessions. Does that mean the availability of old tests gives an unfair advantage to kids who score 1600 on SATs?

How do you explain the fact that despite a significant Facebook presence and advertising campaign, literally 100% of the successful TJ applicants from Curie were of South Asian descent?

The burden of proof of wrongdoing is on the person making the claim. Baseless innuendos are worthless and only reflect negatively on your character.

What claim are you arguing? I presented a fact that Curie confirmed when they posted the first and last names of all of their successful TJ, AOS, and AET applicants for the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024 and literally ALL of them were of South Asian descent.

Whatever claim you are trying to insinuate by posting about the geographic origins of Curie students.

Awfully non-specific. That's because I didn't present a claim. I merely presented a fact and asked for a reasonable explanation of that fact, because frankly, I don't have one and can't see one.

Well, then what's the point of presenting the fact? What were you insinuating? Why is it a problem for the students to be south eastern descent? Why does it need explaining at all?

It is a problem that there exists a private tutoring company that nominally exists to get students into TJ that appears to only serve students of one racial background - evidenced by the fact that they have claimed over 250 TJ admits in the last three years and ALL of them are South Asian.

If you can't see why that is a problem this is not a conversation you need to involve yourself in. Something tells me that an extremely successful prep company that exclusively catered to white people and nabbed nearly 30% of a class at TJ would be VERY concerning to South Asians.

Ahhh, now we see the claim. If you believe it's a problem for a prep school to cater to specific demographic groups, that's a case you have to argue and support. It's not for me or anyone else to argue that it's not a problem. The default state of being in the US is that private individuals have the freedom to associate with each other however they choose. Unless you can demonstrate what law or moral code is being broken by Curie, then you have no convincing argument.

BTW, I find this infatuation you have demonstrated to contain a tinge of racism.

1) Curie acted inappropriately, if not illegally, when they obtained questions from a secured exam and used them to prepare students for said exam in future years. There's nothing wrong or immoral about doing this for an UNsecured exam, but the Quant-Q is a brilliant exam that is secured and essentially useless if prepared for.

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

You referenced the laws regarding free association in America. But what you also know if you have lived here for any length of time at all is that it is unseemly to provide a service that appears to exclude individuals who do not belong to your race.

If there were ONE East Asian or white or Black or Hispanic kid in the mix at Curie, that would be one thing - but there isn't. Not one. And that speaks, honestly, to a big part of the reason why change was necessary.

A closed network whose goal is to funnel an exclusive group into a school is highly problematic, especially when that network is almost entirely populated with VERY well-resourced families.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NP. I understand both sides of the argument, and both have good points. But to me, the main problem is that TJ should never have been set up this way in the first place. TJ is publicly funded. It was always very questionable to set up a public school in such a manner that taxpayers have to fund with their property taxes but can't send their children there.

If any of the successful TJ alumni want to set up a private school to carry on the tradition, have at it. But to me, this has always been an inappropriate way to operate a publicly funded high school.

Uhhh, I pay for the school basketball team through my taxes and can't send my kids to play on the team.

+1 - Public schools spend a lot of money and resources on sports that are super competitive. My kid loves swimming and wanted to get into HS swim team, but couldn't qualify. All I thought at the time was my kid wasn't good enough. May be we should have complained that the kids who got selected in trials paid a lot of money for swim schools/coaches, swim team memberships that we couldn't afford i.e., time or money. Obviously we don't have the leg up in the game. Now I think its totally unfair and we should demand a quota for kids who are not 'prepped' for the sports and may be if my kid were given a chance and she would have done quite well - who knows?.

OMG, not this again. When will you grasp that sports are not the same as public education? The analogy is flawed. Please move on.

Right, sport superstars make lot more money than academic superstars . In addition, the main FOCUS/PURPOSE of public schools is to educate not sports.

Not sure I understand - So if something is a "main focus/purpose" then equity applies, but if its not the main focus/purpose we have a competitive merit based process for it? Please explain when merit should apply and when it should not.

No I think you misunderstand. All children deserve equal access to these programs. Not just ones whose parents can afford outside enrichment. Spots on the other hand have noting to do with school. As far as I'm concerned they shouldn't be something the county pays for but if they are yes they should provide equal access to all students. The NBA however can operate however it wants.

Depends on how you define "equal access". If you mean anyone can attend if they chose to, then that's an asinine contention. The reality of the world is that most "access" is the result of some prior choice or effort. A person can't start working at a federal job just by enrolling - they have to apply, they have to satisfy the requirements, and then they have to engage in competition against other candidates. There is a reason why the goals of free men in a liberal democracy were characterized by the Declaration of Independence as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness because no one is guaranteed the results they want just by showing up, but they are free to pursue it.

Why not let them try and if they don't maintain a certain standard, demote them back to their base school? That gives a year for them to try and make the cut vs. some highly manufactured application and test score that they've prepped for?

Normally, I might agree with this sentiment. My issue is that trying TJ for a year and then dropping back to the base school undoubtedly will harm kids significantly. They will feel like failures and have worse grades for college admissions than they would have had if they remained at base school. I think it's great to give kids a chance if you have every expectation that they're likely to succeed. It's morally questionable to push kids into TJ who aren't ready, just to score political points, and then wash your hands of them as soon as they struggle.

Some sort of baseline proficiency test and teacher recommendations would go a long way toward ensuring that kids are not being set up to fail.

But they know this going into it. And that's part of life: sometimes you fail at things. And no one is saying "push them" into TJ. You can go or not. I would agree with a baseline proficiency test before allowing them to try. But, if they pass that or meet the standard, and they VOLUNTARILY go with the expectations set out for them, let them try. It's a PUBLIC school and it should be open to that, imo.

I'm the PP, and I agree with you. If kids pass whatever tests that show they are likely to succeed at TJ, they absolutely should be given the chance to try. I don't want FCPS to push kids in who are not likely to succeed just so they can get better press releases or score political points. FCPS already kind of does this with AP exams. They push URM kids into taking AP classes and exams for which they aren't qualified, because the entities rating schools go by participation rates of URMs and not pass rates.

The admitted kids are well qualified.

Based on what? Grades earned virtually during a pandemic when they were handing out As to everyone? Flowery essays? Getting free points for checking the FARMS box, being at an "underrepresented MS" (i.e. a gen ed kid at a non AAP center), and/or being an English learner?

All of those factors are just as deserving as mommy and daddy being able to afford a $4,000 prep center.

You'll need to show your work on that argument.

Nope. You need to speak the language of your target audience. Those complaining won't understand if I say more deserving.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Another idiot who doesn’t believe that a student can take the test cold and succeed. What’s your connection to TJHSST again?

Does seeing the format of the questions help at all?

It wasn't just seeing the format. Many claimed they saw the actual questions ahead of time.

That's a great reason to eliminate the Quant-Q. It doesn't explain why the process was gutted to the point that it's impossible to distinguish between a highly gifted kid and a somewhat above average one. They could have retained a baseline proficiency test, teacher recommendations, more substantial problem solving essays, credit for notable accomplishments etc. while still minimizing the impact of extreme prep.

Well with people buying the test the quantQ didn't help differentiate between students either.

just a complete digression to dehumanise Asian kids.

No one is trying to dehumanized Asian kids. People just don't want access to expensive prep centers to be a significant factor to get into a public school. Pretty sure Asian kids aren't the one paying the $4,000 and trying to game the system. That's all on adults.

The prep center is just an excuse, a red herring to distract from the underlying racist discrimination against Asians. Parents, not just Asian parents, are all resourceful when it comes to the upbringing of their children. Even if you narrowly tailor a law outlawing academic prep centers and tutoring, as authoritarian China has recently done (it's true, look it up), parents will find some other way to raise their kids how they see fit - and some of them will go to great lengths to prepare their kids for a future in STEMP field and target a high school like TJ.

No I think it's an actual problem when the majority of kids being admitted attend one of these centers. This reduces the chances of anyone who doesn't attend. The allegations that one center even had test questions is also concerning.

Unless the prep center is doing something illegal or unethical - like cheating or bribery - there is nothing wrong with one center being successful at providing the type of academic tutoring that makes students successful at applying to a specific selective school. I'll keep reminding people of the fact that the kids who attend this prep school are a self-selected population. Kids don't just show up randomly at this prep center for general tutoring and then magically test into TJ. Kids show up there because they 1) specifically want to attend TJ and 2) already have the academic credentials that make admissions highly likely. I would wager that 100% of all kids who got a 1600 on their SAT, took a sample test from prior test sessions. Does that mean the availability of old tests gives an unfair advantage to kids who score 1600 on SATs?

How do you explain the fact that despite a significant Facebook presence and advertising campaign, literally 100% of the successful TJ applicants from Curie were of South Asian descent?

The burden of proof of wrongdoing is on the person making the claim. Baseless innuendos are worthless and only reflect negatively on your character.

What claim are you arguing? I presented a fact that Curie confirmed when they posted the first and last names of all of their successful TJ, AOS, and AET applicants for the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024 and literally ALL of them were of South Asian descent.

Whatever claim you are trying to insinuate by posting about the geographic origins of Curie students.

Awfully non-specific. That's because I didn't present a claim. I merely presented a fact and asked for a reasonable explanation of that fact, because frankly, I don't have one and can't see one.

Well, then what's the point of presenting the fact? What were you insinuating? Why is it a problem for the students to be south eastern descent? Why does it need explaining at all?

It is a problem that there exists a private tutoring company that nominally exists to get students into TJ that appears to only serve students of one racial background - evidenced by the fact that they have claimed over 250 TJ admits in the last three years and ALL of them are South Asian.

If you can't see why that is a problem this is not a conversation you need to involve yourself in. Something tells me that an extremely successful prep company that exclusively catered to white people and nabbed nearly 30% of a class at TJ would be VERY concerning to South Asians.

Ahhh, now we see the claim. If you believe it's a problem for a prep school to cater to specific demographic groups, that's a case you have to argue and support. It's not for me or anyone else to argue that it's not a problem. The default state of being in the US is that private individuals have the freedom to associate with each other however they choose. Unless you can demonstrate what law or moral code is being broken by Curie, then you have no convincing argument.

BTW, I find this infatuation you have demonstrated to contain a tinge of racism.

1) Curie acted inappropriately, if not illegally, when they obtained questions from a secured exam and used them to prepare students for said exam in future years. There's nothing wrong or immoral about doing this for an UNsecured exam, but the Quant-Q is a brilliant exam that is secured and essentially useless if prepared for.

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

You referenced the laws regarding free association in America. But what you also know if you have lived here for any length of time at all is that it is unseemly to provide a service that appears to exclude individuals who do not belong to your race.

If there were ONE East Asian or white or Black or Hispanic kid in the mix at Curie, that would be one thing - but there isn't. Not one. And that speaks, honestly, to a big part of the reason why change was necessary.

A closed network whose goal is to funnel an exclusive group into a school is highly problematic, especially when that network is almost entirely populated with VERY well-resourced families.

You are missing a point here - curie is run by a retired south asian teacher and a lot of their marketing has been word of mouth. So, its not surprising that you will find south asian students there. Its also possible that style of teaching might repel students/parents from any other cultures or feel out of place. There are quite a few tj prep centers in this area and each cater to specific demographic, though not intentionally. The same happens in Kumon as well, where you will mostly see asians, though a much broader mix of asians even though there isn't much of actual teaching in Kumon to be affected by the style.

Curie might have obtained few questions unethically, but I am not sure if there is anything illegal there. If there is pleas sue them! There is always going to be prepping for any sort of test and you just can't avoid it, though the extent of prep defers. Curie got infamous, but there are several other prep centers in the area, exclusive private tutoring (which you don't often hear), educated parents prepping their kids etc - can you realistically ban all of these activities? You can even find Quant-Q test prep books on Amazon. If this test should not be prepped, then we should ban all the books around it. For gods sake, there are so many folks in these forum who are against prepping for Cogat/NNAT/IAAT, when there many books available to buy. My kids do pretty well in school, but I have to admit, I bought Cogat book from Amazon as well and which probably helped my kid(s) get high enough score to get into AAP. Would they have gotten in with out practice tests? may be, but how I can be sure? - hate me now!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Another idiot who doesn’t believe that a student can take the test cold and succeed. What’s your connection to TJHSST again?

Does seeing the format of the questions help at all?

It wasn't just seeing the format. Many claimed they saw the actual questions ahead of time.

That's a great reason to eliminate the Quant-Q. It doesn't explain why the process was gutted to the point that it's impossible to distinguish between a highly gifted kid and a somewhat above average one. They could have retained a baseline proficiency test, teacher recommendations, more substantial problem solving essays, credit for notable accomplishments etc. while still minimizing the impact of extreme prep.

Well with people buying the test the quantQ didn't help differentiate between students either.

just a complete digression to dehumanise Asian kids.

No one is trying to dehumanized Asian kids. People just don't want access to expensive prep centers to be a significant factor to get into a public school. Pretty sure Asian kids aren't the one paying the $4,000 and trying to game the system. That's all on adults.

The prep center is just an excuse, a red herring to distract from the underlying racist discrimination against Asians. Parents, not just Asian parents, are all resourceful when it comes to the upbringing of their children. Even if you narrowly tailor a law outlawing academic prep centers and tutoring, as authoritarian China has recently done (it's true, look it up), parents will find some other way to raise their kids how they see fit - and some of them will go to great lengths to prepare their kids for a future in STEMP field and target a high school like TJ.

No I think it's an actual problem when the majority of kids being admitted attend one of these centers. This reduces the chances of anyone who doesn't attend. The allegations that one center even had test questions is also concerning.

Unless the prep center is doing something illegal or unethical - like cheating or bribery - there is nothing wrong with one center being successful at providing the type of academic tutoring that makes students successful at applying to a specific selective school. I'll keep reminding people of the fact that the kids who attend this prep school are a self-selected population. Kids don't just show up randomly at this prep center for general tutoring and then magically test into TJ. Kids show up there because they 1) specifically want to attend TJ and 2) already have the academic credentials that make admissions highly likely. I would wager that 100% of all kids who got a 1600 on their SAT, took a sample test from prior test sessions. Does that mean the availability of old tests gives an unfair advantage to kids who score 1600 on SATs?

How do you explain the fact that despite a significant Facebook presence and advertising campaign, literally 100% of the successful TJ applicants from Curie were of South Asian descent?

The burden of proof of wrongdoing is on the person making the claim. Baseless innuendos are worthless and only reflect negatively on your character.

What claim are you arguing? I presented a fact that Curie confirmed when they posted the first and last names of all of their successful TJ, AOS, and AET applicants for the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024 and literally ALL of them were of South Asian descent.

Whatever claim you are trying to insinuate by posting about the geographic origins of Curie students.

Awfully non-specific. That's because I didn't present a claim. I merely presented a fact and asked for a reasonable explanation of that fact, because frankly, I don't have one and can't see one.

Well, then what's the point of presenting the fact? What were you insinuating? Why is it a problem for the students to be south eastern descent? Why does it need explaining at all?

It is a problem that there exists a private tutoring company that nominally exists to get students into TJ that appears to only serve students of one racial background - evidenced by the fact that they have claimed over 250 TJ admits in the last three years and ALL of them are South Asian.

If you can't see why that is a problem this is not a conversation you need to involve yourself in. Something tells me that an extremely successful prep company that exclusively catered to white people and nabbed nearly 30% of a class at TJ would be VERY concerning to South Asians.

Ahhh, now we see the claim. If you believe it's a problem for a prep school to cater to specific demographic groups, that's a case you have to argue and support. It's not for me or anyone else to argue that it's not a problem. The default state of being in the US is that private individuals have the freedom to associate with each other however they choose. Unless you can demonstrate what law or moral code is being broken by Curie, then you have no convincing argument.

BTW, I find this infatuation you have demonstrated to contain a tinge of racism.

1) Curie acted inappropriately, if not illegally, when they obtained questions from a secured exam and used them to prepare students for said exam in future years. There's nothing wrong or immoral about doing this for an UNsecured exam, but the Quant-Q is a brilliant exam that is secured and essentially useless if prepared for.

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

You referenced the laws regarding free association in America. But what you also know if you have lived here for any length of time at all is that it is unseemly to provide a service that appears to exclude individuals who do not belong to your race.

If there were ONE East Asian or white or Black or Hispanic kid in the mix at Curie, that would be one thing - but there isn't. Not one. And that speaks, honestly, to a big part of the reason why change was necessary.

A closed network whose goal is to funnel an exclusive group into a school is highly problematic, especially when that network is almost entirely populated with VERY well-resourced families.

You are missing a point here - curie is run by a retired south asian teacher and a lot of their marketing has been word of mouth. So, its not surprising that you will find south asian students there. Its also possible that style of teaching might repel students/parents from any other cultures or feel out of place. There are quite a few tj prep centers in this area and each cater to specific demographic, though not intentionally. The same happens in Kumon as well, where you will mostly see asians, though a much broader mix of asians even though there isn't much of actual teaching in Kumon to be affected by the style.

Curie might have obtained few questions unethically, but I am not sure if there is anything illegal there. If there is pleas sue them! There is always going to be prepping for any sort of test and you just can't avoid it, though the extent of prep defers. Curie got infamous, but there are several other prep centers in the area, exclusive private tutoring (which you don't often hear), educated parents prepping their kids etc - can you realistically ban all of these activities? You can even find Quant-Q test prep books on Amazon. If this test should not be prepped, then we should ban all the books around it. For gods sake, there are so many folks in these forum who are against prepping for Cogat/NNAT/IAAT, when there many books available to buy. My kids do pretty well in school, but I have to admit, I bought Cogat book from Amazon as well and which probably helped my kid(s) get high enough score to get into AAP. Would they have gotten in with out practice tests? may be, but how I can be sure? - hate me now!

Curie having the questions is fake news. #veryfakenews

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another idiot who doesn’t believe that a student can take the test cold and succeed. What’s your connection to TJHSST again?

Does seeing the format of the questions help at all?

It wasn't just seeing the format. Many claimed they saw the actual questions ahead of time.

That's a great reason to eliminate the Quant-Q. It doesn't explain why the process was gutted to the point that it's impossible to distinguish between a highly gifted kid and a somewhat above average one. They could have retained a baseline proficiency test, teacher recommendations, more substantial problem solving essays, credit for notable accomplishments etc. while still minimizing the impact of extreme prep.

Well with people buying the test the quantQ didn't help differentiate between students either.

just a complete digression to dehumanise Asian kids.

No one is trying to dehumanized Asian kids. People just don't want access to expensive prep centers to be a significant factor to get into a public school. Pretty sure Asian kids aren't the one paying the $4,000 and trying to game the system. That's all on adults.

The prep center is just an excuse, a red herring to distract from the underlying racist discrimination against Asians. Parents, not just Asian parents, are all resourceful when it comes to the upbringing of their children. Even if you narrowly tailor a law outlawing academic prep centers and tutoring, as authoritarian China has recently done (it's true, look it up), parents will find some other way to raise their kids how they see fit - and some of them will go to great lengths to prepare their kids for a future in STEMP field and target a high school like TJ.

No I think it's an actual problem when the majority of kids being admitted attend one of these centers. This reduces the chances of anyone who doesn't attend. The allegations that one center even had test questions is also concerning.

Unless the prep center is doing something illegal or unethical - like cheating or bribery - there is nothing wrong with one center being successful at providing the type of academic tutoring that makes students successful at applying to a specific selective school. I'll keep reminding people of the fact that the kids who attend this prep school are a self-selected population. Kids don't just show up randomly at this prep center for general tutoring and then magically test into TJ. Kids show up there because they 1) specifically want to attend TJ and 2) already have the academic credentials that make admissions highly likely. I would wager that 100% of all kids who got a 1600 on their SAT, took a sample test from prior test sessions. Does that mean the availability of old tests gives an unfair advantage to kids who score 1600 on SATs?

How do you explain the fact that despite a significant Facebook presence and advertising campaign, literally 100% of the successful TJ applicants from Curie were of South Asian descent?

The burden of proof of wrongdoing is on the person making the claim. Baseless innuendos are worthless and only reflect negatively on your character.

What claim are you arguing? I presented a fact that Curie confirmed when they posted the first and last names of all of their successful TJ, AOS, and AET applicants for the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024 and literally ALL of them were of South Asian descent.

Whatever claim you are trying to insinuate by posting about the geographic origins of Curie students.

Awfully non-specific. That's because I didn't present a claim. I merely presented a fact and asked for a reasonable explanation of that fact, because frankly, I don't have one and can't see one.

Well, then what's the point of presenting the fact? What were you insinuating? Why is it a problem for the students to be south eastern descent? Why does it need explaining at all?

It is a problem that there exists a private tutoring company that nominally exists to get students into TJ that appears to only serve students of one racial background - evidenced by the fact that they have claimed over 250 TJ admits in the last three years and ALL of them are South Asian.

If you can't see why that is a problem this is not a conversation you need to involve yourself in. Something tells me that an extremely successful prep company that exclusively catered to white people and nabbed nearly 30% of a class at TJ would be VERY concerning to South Asians.

Ahhh, now we see the claim. If you believe it's a problem for a prep school to cater to specific demographic groups, that's a case you have to argue and support. It's not for me or anyone else to argue that it's not a problem. The default state of being in the US is that private individuals have the freedom to associate with each other however they choose. Unless you can demonstrate what law or moral code is being broken by Curie, then you have no convincing argument.

BTW, I find this infatuation you have demonstrated to contain a tinge of racism.

1) Curie acted inappropriately, if not illegally, when they obtained questions from a secured exam and used them to prepare students for said exam in future years. There's nothing wrong or immoral about doing this for an UNsecured exam, but the Quant-Q is a brilliant exam that is secured and essentially useless if prepared for.

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

You referenced the laws regarding free association in America. But what you also know if you have lived here for any length of time at all is that it is unseemly to provide a service that appears to exclude individuals who do not belong to your race.

If there were ONE East Asian or white or Black or Hispanic kid in the mix at Curie, that would be one thing - but there isn't. Not one. And that speaks, honestly, to a big part of the reason why change was necessary.

A closed network whose goal is to funnel an exclusive group into a school is highly problematic, especially when that network is almost entirely populated with VERY well-resourced families.

You are missing a point here - curie is run by a retired south asian teacher and a lot of their marketing has been word of mouth. So, its not surprising that you will find south asian students there. Its also possible that style of teaching might repel students/parents from any other cultures or feel out of place. There are quite a few tj prep centers in this area and each cater to specific demographic, though not intentionally. The same happens in Kumon as well, where you will mostly see asians, though a much broader mix of asians even though there isn't much of actual teaching in Kumon to be affected by the style.

Curie might have obtained few questions unethically, but I am not sure if there is anything illegal there. If there is pleas sue them! There is always going to be prepping for any sort of test and you just can't avoid it, though the extent of prep defers. Curie got infamous, but there are several other prep centers in the area, exclusive private tutoring (which you don't often hear), educated parents prepping their kids etc - can you realistically ban all of these activities? You can even find Quant-Q test prep books on Amazon. If this test should not be prepped, then we should ban all the books around it. For gods sake, there are so many folks in these forum who are against prepping for Cogat/NNAT/IAAT, when there many books available to buy. My kids do pretty well in school, but I have to admit, I bought Cogat book from Amazon as well and which probably helped my kid(s) get high enough score to get into AAP. Would they have gotten in with out practice tests? may be, but how I can be sure? - hate me now!

Curie having the questions is fake news. #veryfakenews

Is that your official statement as a representative of Curie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another idiot who doesn’t believe that a student can take the test cold and succeed. What’s your connection to TJHSST again?

Does seeing the format of the questions help at all?

It wasn't just seeing the format. Many claimed they saw the actual questions ahead of time.

That's a great reason to eliminate the Quant-Q. It doesn't explain why the process was gutted to the point that it's impossible to distinguish between a highly gifted kid and a somewhat above average one. They could have retained a baseline proficiency test, teacher recommendations, more substantial problem solving essays, credit for notable accomplishments etc. while still minimizing the impact of extreme prep.

Well with people buying the test the quantQ didn't help differentiate between students either.

just a complete digression to dehumanise Asian kids.

No one is trying to dehumanized Asian kids. People just don't want access to expensive prep centers to be a significant factor to get into a public school. Pretty sure Asian kids aren't the one paying the $4,000 and trying to game the system. That's all on adults.

The prep center is just an excuse, a red herring to distract from the underlying racist discrimination against Asians. Parents, not just Asian parents, are all resourceful when it comes to the upbringing of their children. Even if you narrowly tailor a law outlawing academic prep centers and tutoring, as authoritarian China has recently done (it's true, look it up), parents will find some other way to raise their kids how they see fit - and some of them will go to great lengths to prepare their kids for a future in STEMP field and target a high school like TJ.

No I think it's an actual problem when the majority of kids being admitted attend one of these centers. This reduces the chances of anyone who doesn't attend. The allegations that one center even had test questions is also concerning.

Unless the prep center is doing something illegal or unethical - like cheating or bribery - there is nothing wrong with one center being successful at providing the type of academic tutoring that makes students successful at applying to a specific selective school. I'll keep reminding people of the fact that the kids who attend this prep school are a self-selected population. Kids don't just show up randomly at this prep center for general tutoring and then magically test into TJ. Kids show up there because they 1) specifically want to attend TJ and 2) already have the academic credentials that make admissions highly likely. I would wager that 100% of all kids who got a 1600 on their SAT, took a sample test from prior test sessions. Does that mean the availability of old tests gives an unfair advantage to kids who score 1600 on SATs?

How do you explain the fact that despite a significant Facebook presence and advertising campaign, literally 100% of the successful TJ applicants from Curie were of South Asian descent?

The burden of proof of wrongdoing is on the person making the claim. Baseless innuendos are worthless and only reflect negatively on your character.

What claim are you arguing? I presented a fact that Curie confirmed when they posted the first and last names of all of their successful TJ, AOS, and AET applicants for the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024 and literally ALL of them were of South Asian descent.

Whatever claim you are trying to insinuate by posting about the geographic origins of Curie students.

Awfully non-specific. That's because I didn't present a claim. I merely presented a fact and asked for a reasonable explanation of that fact, because frankly, I don't have one and can't see one.

Well, then what's the point of presenting the fact? What were you insinuating? Why is it a problem for the students to be south eastern descent? Why does it need explaining at all?

It is a problem that there exists a private tutoring company that nominally exists to get students into TJ that appears to only serve students of one racial background - evidenced by the fact that they have claimed over 250 TJ admits in the last three years and ALL of them are South Asian.

If you can't see why that is a problem this is not a conversation you need to involve yourself in. Something tells me that an extremely successful prep company that exclusively catered to white people and nabbed nearly 30% of a class at TJ would be VERY concerning to South Asians.

Ahhh, now we see the claim. If you believe it's a problem for a prep school to cater to specific demographic groups, that's a case you have to argue and support. It's not for me or anyone else to argue that it's not a problem. The default state of being in the US is that private individuals have the freedom to associate with each other however they choose. Unless you can demonstrate what law or moral code is being broken by Curie, then you have no convincing argument.

BTW, I find this infatuation you have demonstrated to contain a tinge of racism.

1) Curie acted inappropriately, if not illegally, when they obtained questions from a secured exam and used them to prepare students for said exam in future years. There's nothing wrong or immoral about doing this for an UNsecured exam, but the Quant-Q is a brilliant exam that is secured and essentially useless if prepared for.

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

You referenced the laws regarding free association in America. But what you also know if you have lived here for any length of time at all is that it is unseemly to provide a service that appears to exclude individuals who do not belong to your race.

If there were ONE East Asian or white or Black or Hispanic kid in the mix at Curie, that would be one thing - but there isn't. Not one. And that speaks, honestly, to a big part of the reason why change was necessary.

A closed network whose goal is to funnel an exclusive group into a school is highly problematic, especially when that network is almost entirely populated with VERY well-resourced families.

You are missing a point here - curie is run by a retired south asian teacher and a lot of their marketing has been word of mouth. So, its not surprising that you will find south asian students there. Its also possible that style of teaching might repel students/parents from any other cultures or feel out of place. There are quite a few tj prep centers in this area and each cater to specific demographic, though not intentionally. The same happens in Kumon as well, where you will mostly see asians, though a much broader mix of asians even though there isn't much of actual teaching in Kumon to be affected by the style.

Curie might have obtained few questions unethically, but I am not sure if there is anything illegal there. If there is pleas sue them! There is always going to be prepping for any sort of test and you just can't avoid it, though the extent of prep defers. Curie got infamous, but there are several other prep centers in the area, exclusive private tutoring (which you don't often hear), educated parents prepping their kids etc - can you realistically ban all of these activities? You can even find Quant-Q test prep books on Amazon. If this test should not be prepped, then we should ban all the books around it. For gods sake, there are so many folks in these forum who are against prepping for Cogat/NNAT/IAAT, when there many books available to buy. My kids do pretty well in school, but I have to admit, I bought Cogat book from Amazon as well and which probably helped my kid(s) get high enough score to get into AAP. Would they have gotten in with out practice tests? may be, but how I can be sure? - hate me now!

Curie having the questions is fake news. #veryfakenews

Is that your official statement as a representative of Curie?

I have no connection to Curie or anyone that has attended Curie. I simply followed the lawsuit and was shocked that no Curie allegation was ever raised. If there was anything to Curie having the questions, I guarantee FCPS would have raised it as a defense to why they dropped the test. They did not. You are perpetuating fake news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another idiot who doesn’t believe that a student can take the test cold and succeed. What’s your connection to TJHSST again?

Does seeing the format of the questions help at all?

It wasn't just seeing the format. Many claimed they saw the actual questions ahead of time.

That's a great reason to eliminate the Quant-Q. It doesn't explain why the process was gutted to the point that it's impossible to distinguish between a highly gifted kid and a somewhat above average one. They could have retained a baseline proficiency test, teacher recommendations, more substantial problem solving essays, credit for notable accomplishments etc. while still minimizing the impact of extreme prep.

Well with people buying the test the quantQ didn't help differentiate between students either.

just a complete digression to dehumanise Asian kids.

No one is trying to dehumanized Asian kids. People just don't want access to expensive prep centers to be a significant factor to get into a public school. Pretty sure Asian kids aren't the one paying the $4,000 and trying to game the system. That's all on adults.

The prep center is just an excuse, a red herring to distract from the underlying racist discrimination against Asians. Parents, not just Asian parents, are all resourceful when it comes to the upbringing of their children. Even if you narrowly tailor a law outlawing academic prep centers and tutoring, as authoritarian China has recently done (it's true, look it up), parents will find some other way to raise their kids how they see fit - and some of them will go to great lengths to prepare their kids for a future in STEMP field and target a high school like TJ.

No I think it's an actual problem when the majority of kids being admitted attend one of these centers. This reduces the chances of anyone who doesn't attend. The allegations that one center even had test questions is also concerning.

Unless the prep center is doing something illegal or unethical - like cheating or bribery - there is nothing wrong with one center being successful at providing the type of academic tutoring that makes students successful at applying to a specific selective school. I'll keep reminding people of the fact that the kids who attend this prep school are a self-selected population. Kids don't just show up randomly at this prep center for general tutoring and then magically test into TJ. Kids show up there because they 1) specifically want to attend TJ and 2) already have the academic credentials that make admissions highly likely. I would wager that 100% of all kids who got a 1600 on their SAT, took a sample test from prior test sessions. Does that mean the availability of old tests gives an unfair advantage to kids who score 1600 on SATs?

How do you explain the fact that despite a significant Facebook presence and advertising campaign, literally 100% of the successful TJ applicants from Curie were of South Asian descent?

The burden of proof of wrongdoing is on the person making the claim. Baseless innuendos are worthless and only reflect negatively on your character.

What claim are you arguing? I presented a fact that Curie confirmed when they posted the first and last names of all of their successful TJ, AOS, and AET applicants for the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024 and literally ALL of them were of South Asian descent.

Whatever claim you are trying to insinuate by posting about the geographic origins of Curie students.

Awfully non-specific. That's because I didn't present a claim. I merely presented a fact and asked for a reasonable explanation of that fact, because frankly, I don't have one and can't see one.

Well, then what's the point of presenting the fact? What were you insinuating? Why is it a problem for the students to be south eastern descent? Why does it need explaining at all?

It is a problem that there exists a private tutoring company that nominally exists to get students into TJ that appears to only serve students of one racial background - evidenced by the fact that they have claimed over 250 TJ admits in the last three years and ALL of them are South Asian.

If you can't see why that is a problem this is not a conversation you need to involve yourself in. Something tells me that an extremely successful prep company that exclusively catered to white people and nabbed nearly 30% of a class at TJ would be VERY concerning to South Asians.

Ahhh, now we see the claim. If you believe it's a problem for a prep school to cater to specific demographic groups, that's a case you have to argue and support. It's not for me or anyone else to argue that it's not a problem. The default state of being in the US is that private individuals have the freedom to associate with each other however they choose. Unless you can demonstrate what law or moral code is being broken by Curie, then you have no convincing argument.

BTW, I find this infatuation you have demonstrated to contain a tinge of racism.

1) Curie acted inappropriately, if not illegally, when they obtained questions from a secured exam and used them to prepare students for said exam in future years. There's nothing wrong or immoral about doing this for an UNsecured exam, but the Quant-Q is a brilliant exam that is secured and essentially useless if prepared for.

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

You referenced the laws regarding free association in America. But what you also know if you have lived here for any length of time at all is that it is unseemly to provide a service that appears to exclude individuals who do not belong to your race.

If there were ONE East Asian or white or Black or Hispanic kid in the mix at Curie, that would be one thing - but there isn't. Not one. And that speaks, honestly, to a big part of the reason why change was necessary.

A closed network whose goal is to funnel an exclusive group into a school is highly problematic, especially when that network is almost entirely populated with VERY well-resourced families.

You are missing a point here - curie is run by a retired south asian teacher and a lot of their marketing has been word of mouth. So, its not surprising that you will find south asian students there. Its also possible that style of teaching might repel students/parents from any other cultures or feel out of place. There are quite a few tj prep centers in this area and each cater to specific demographic, though not intentionally. The same happens in Kumon as well, where you will mostly see asians, though a much broader mix of asians even though there isn't much of actual teaching in Kumon to be affected by the style.

Curie might have obtained few questions unethically, but I am not sure if there is anything illegal there. If there is pleas sue them! There is always going to be prepping for any sort of test and you just can't avoid it, though the extent of prep defers. Curie got infamous, but there are several other prep centers in the area, exclusive private tutoring (which you don't often hear), educated parents prepping their kids etc - can you realistically ban all of these activities? You can even find Quant-Q test prep books on Amazon. If this test should not be prepped, then we should ban all the books around it. For gods sake, there are so many folks in these forum who are against prepping for Cogat/NNAT/IAAT, when there many books available to buy. My kids do pretty well in school, but I have to admit, I bought Cogat book from Amazon as well and which probably helped my kid(s) get high enough score to get into AAP. Would they have gotten in with out practice tests? may be, but how I can be sure? - hate me now!

Curie having the questions is fake news. #veryfakenews

Is that your official statement as a representative of Curie?

I have no connection to Curie or anyone that has attended Curie. I simply followed the lawsuit and was shocked that no Curie allegation was ever raised. If there was anything to Curie having the questions, I guarantee FCPS would have raised it as a defense to why they dropped the test. They did not. You are perpetuating fake news.

DP Of course this wasn't part of the lawsuit. But it was part of the reason for changing the admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another idiot who doesn’t believe that a student can take the test cold and succeed. What’s your connection to TJHSST again?

Does seeing the format of the questions help at all?

It wasn't just seeing the format. Many claimed they saw the actual questions ahead of time.

That's a great reason to eliminate the Quant-Q. It doesn't explain why the process was gutted to the point that it's impossible to distinguish between a highly gifted kid and a somewhat above average one. They could have retained a baseline proficiency test, teacher recommendations, more substantial problem solving essays, credit for notable accomplishments etc. while still minimizing the impact of extreme prep.

Well with people buying the test the quantQ didn't help differentiate between students either.

just a complete digression to dehumanise Asian kids.

No one is trying to dehumanized Asian kids. People just don't want access to expensive prep centers to be a significant factor to get into a public school. Pretty sure Asian kids aren't the one paying the $4,000 and trying to game the system. That's all on adults.

The prep center is just an excuse, a red herring to distract from the underlying racist discrimination against Asians. Parents, not just Asian parents, are all resourceful when it comes to the upbringing of their children. Even if you narrowly tailor a law outlawing academic prep centers and tutoring, as authoritarian China has recently done (it's true, look it up), parents will find some other way to raise their kids how they see fit - and some of them will go to great lengths to prepare their kids for a future in STEMP field and target a high school like TJ.

No I think it's an actual problem when the majority of kids being admitted attend one of these centers. This reduces the chances of anyone who doesn't attend. The allegations that one center even had test questions is also concerning.

Unless the prep center is doing something illegal or unethical - like cheating or bribery - there is nothing wrong with one center being successful at providing the type of academic tutoring that makes students successful at applying to a specific selective school. I'll keep reminding people of the fact that the kids who attend this prep school are a self-selected population. Kids don't just show up randomly at this prep center for general tutoring and then magically test into TJ. Kids show up there because they 1) specifically want to attend TJ and 2) already have the academic credentials that make admissions highly likely. I would wager that 100% of all kids who got a 1600 on their SAT, took a sample test from prior test sessions. Does that mean the availability of old tests gives an unfair advantage to kids who score 1600 on SATs?

How do you explain the fact that despite a significant Facebook presence and advertising campaign, literally 100% of the successful TJ applicants from Curie were of South Asian descent?

The burden of proof of wrongdoing is on the person making the claim. Baseless innuendos are worthless and only reflect negatively on your character.

What claim are you arguing? I presented a fact that Curie confirmed when they posted the first and last names of all of their successful TJ, AOS, and AET applicants for the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024 and literally ALL of them were of South Asian descent.

Whatever claim you are trying to insinuate by posting about the geographic origins of Curie students.

Awfully non-specific. That's because I didn't present a claim. I merely presented a fact and asked for a reasonable explanation of that fact, because frankly, I don't have one and can't see one.

Well, then what's the point of presenting the fact? What were you insinuating? Why is it a problem for the students to be south eastern descent? Why does it need explaining at all?

It is a problem that there exists a private tutoring company that nominally exists to get students into TJ that appears to only serve students of one racial background - evidenced by the fact that they have claimed over 250 TJ admits in the last three years and ALL of them are South Asian.

If you can't see why that is a problem this is not a conversation you need to involve yourself in. Something tells me that an extremely successful prep company that exclusively catered to white people and nabbed nearly 30% of a class at TJ would be VERY concerning to South Asians.

Ahhh, now we see the claim. If you believe it's a problem for a prep school to cater to specific demographic groups, that's a case you have to argue and support. It's not for me or anyone else to argue that it's not a problem. The default state of being in the US is that private individuals have the freedom to associate with each other however they choose. Unless you can demonstrate what law or moral code is being broken by Curie, then you have no convincing argument.

BTW, I find this infatuation you have demonstrated to contain a tinge of racism.

1) Curie acted inappropriately, if not illegally, when they obtained questions from a secured exam and used them to prepare students for said exam in future years. There's nothing wrong or immoral about doing this for an UNsecured exam, but the Quant-Q is a brilliant exam that is secured and essentially useless if prepared for.

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

You referenced the laws regarding free association in America. But what you also know if you have lived here for any length of time at all is that it is unseemly to provide a service that appears to exclude individuals who do not belong to your race.

If there were ONE East Asian or white or Black or Hispanic kid in the mix at Curie, that would be one thing - but there isn't. Not one. And that speaks, honestly, to a big part of the reason why change was necessary.

A closed network whose goal is to funnel an exclusive group into a school is highly problematic, especially when that network is almost entirely populated with VERY well-resourced families.

You are missing a point here - curie is run by a retired south asian teacher and a lot of their marketing has been word of mouth. So, its not surprising that you will find south asian students there. Its also possible that style of teaching might repel students/parents from any other cultures or feel out of place. There are quite a few tj prep centers in this area and each cater to specific demographic, though not intentionally. The same happens in Kumon as well, where you will mostly see asians, though a much broader mix of asians even though there isn't much of actual teaching in Kumon to be affected by the style.

Curie might have obtained few questions unethically, but I am not sure if there is anything illegal there. If there is pleas sue them! There is always going to be prepping for any sort of test and you just can't avoid it, though the extent of prep defers. Curie got infamous, but there are several other prep centers in the area, exclusive private tutoring (which you don't often hear), educated parents prepping their kids etc - can you realistically ban all of these activities? You can even find Quant-Q test prep books on Amazon. If this test should not be prepped, then we should ban all the books around it. For gods sake, there are so many folks in these forum who are against prepping for Cogat/NNAT/IAAT, when there many books available to buy. My kids do pretty well in school, but I have to admit, I bought Cogat book from Amazon as well and which probably helped my kid(s) get high enough score to get into AAP. Would they have gotten in with out practice tests? may be, but how I can be sure? - hate me now!

Curie having the questions is fake news. #veryfakenews

Is that your official statement as a representative of Curie?

I have no connection to Curie or anyone that has attended Curie. I simply followed the lawsuit and was shocked that no Curie allegation was ever raised. If there was anything to Curie having the questions, I guarantee FCPS would have raised it as a defense to why they dropped the test. They did not. You are perpetuating fake news.

So you have no fcking clue. Sit TF down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another idiot who doesn’t believe that a student can take the test cold and succeed. What’s your connection to TJHSST again?

Does seeing the format of the questions help at all?

It wasn't just seeing the format. Many claimed they saw the actual questions ahead of time.

That's a great reason to eliminate the Quant-Q. It doesn't explain why the process was gutted to the point that it's impossible to distinguish between a highly gifted kid and a somewhat above average one. They could have retained a baseline proficiency test, teacher recommendations, more substantial problem solving essays, credit for notable accomplishments etc. while still minimizing the impact of extreme prep.

Well with people buying the test the quantQ didn't help differentiate between students either.

just a complete digression to dehumanise Asian kids.

No one is trying to dehumanized Asian kids. People just don't want access to expensive prep centers to be a significant factor to get into a public school. Pretty sure Asian kids aren't the one paying the $4,000 and trying to game the system. That's all on adults.

The prep center is just an excuse, a red herring to distract from the underlying racist discrimination against Asians. Parents, not just Asian parents, are all resourceful when it comes to the upbringing of their children. Even if you narrowly tailor a law outlawing academic prep centers and tutoring, as authoritarian China has recently done (it's true, look it up), parents will find some other way to raise their kids how they see fit - and some of them will go to great lengths to prepare their kids for a future in STEMP field and target a high school like TJ.

No I think it's an actual problem when the majority of kids being admitted attend one of these centers. This reduces the chances of anyone who doesn't attend. The allegations that one center even had test questions is also concerning.

Unless the prep center is doing something illegal or unethical - like cheating or bribery - there is nothing wrong with one center being successful at providing the type of academic tutoring that makes students successful at applying to a specific selective school. I'll keep reminding people of the fact that the kids who attend this prep school are a self-selected population. Kids don't just show up randomly at this prep center for general tutoring and then magically test into TJ. Kids show up there because they 1) specifically want to attend TJ and 2) already have the academic credentials that make admissions highly likely. I would wager that 100% of all kids who got a 1600 on their SAT, took a sample test from prior test sessions. Does that mean the availability of old tests gives an unfair advantage to kids who score 1600 on SATs?

How do you explain the fact that despite a significant Facebook presence and advertising campaign, literally 100% of the successful TJ applicants from Curie were of South Asian descent?

The burden of proof of wrongdoing is on the person making the claim. Baseless innuendos are worthless and only reflect negatively on your character.

What claim are you arguing? I presented a fact that Curie confirmed when they posted the first and last names of all of their successful TJ, AOS, and AET applicants for the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024 and literally ALL of them were of South Asian descent.

Whatever claim you are trying to insinuate by posting about the geographic origins of Curie students.

Awfully non-specific. That's because I didn't present a claim. I merely presented a fact and asked for a reasonable explanation of that fact, because frankly, I don't have one and can't see one.

Well, then what's the point of presenting the fact? What were you insinuating? Why is it a problem for the students to be south eastern descent? Why does it need explaining at all?

It is a problem that there exists a private tutoring company that nominally exists to get students into TJ that appears to only serve students of one racial background - evidenced by the fact that they have claimed over 250 TJ admits in the last three years and ALL of them are South Asian.

If you can't see why that is a problem this is not a conversation you need to involve yourself in. Something tells me that an extremely successful prep company that exclusively catered to white people and nabbed nearly 30% of a class at TJ would be VERY concerning to South Asians.

Ahhh, now we see the claim. If you believe it's a problem for a prep school to cater to specific demographic groups, that's a case you have to argue and support. It's not for me or anyone else to argue that it's not a problem. The default state of being in the US is that private individuals have the freedom to associate with each other however they choose. Unless you can demonstrate what law or moral code is being broken by Curie, then you have no convincing argument.

BTW, I find this infatuation you have demonstrated to contain a tinge of racism.

1) Curie acted inappropriately, if not illegally, when they obtained questions from a secured exam and used them to prepare students for said exam in future years. There's nothing wrong or immoral about doing this for an UNsecured exam, but the Quant-Q is a brilliant exam that is secured and essentially useless if prepared for.

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

You referenced the laws regarding free association in America. But what you also know if you have lived here for any length of time at all is that it is unseemly to provide a service that appears to exclude individuals who do not belong to your race.

If there were ONE East Asian or white or Black or Hispanic kid in the mix at Curie, that would be one thing - but there isn't. Not one. And that speaks, honestly, to a big part of the reason why change was necessary.

A closed network whose goal is to funnel an exclusive group into a school is highly problematic, especially when that network is almost entirely populated with VERY well-resourced families.

You are missing a point here - curie is run by a retired south asian teacher and a lot of their marketing has been word of mouth. So, its not surprising that you will find south asian students there. Its also possible that style of teaching might repel students/parents from any other cultures or feel out of place. There are quite a few tj prep centers in this area and each cater to specific demographic, though not intentionally. The same happens in Kumon as well, where you will mostly see asians, though a much broader mix of asians even though there isn't much of actual teaching in Kumon to be affected by the style.

Curie might have obtained few questions unethically, but I am not sure if there is anything illegal there. If there is pleas sue them! There is always going to be prepping for any sort of test and you just can't avoid it, though the extent of prep defers. Curie got infamous, but there are several other prep centers in the area, exclusive private tutoring (which you don't often hear), educated parents prepping their kids etc - can you realistically ban all of these activities? You can even find Quant-Q test prep books on Amazon. If this test should not be prepped, then we should ban all the books around it. For gods sake, there are so many folks in these forum who are against prepping for Cogat/NNAT/IAAT, when there many books available to buy. My kids do pretty well in school, but I have to admit, I bought Cogat book from Amazon as well and which probably helped my kid(s) get high enough score to get into AAP. Would they have gotten in with out practice tests? may be, but how I can be sure? - hate me now!

Curie having the questions is fake news. #veryfakenews

Is that your official statement as a representative of Curie?

I have no connection to Curie or anyone that has attended Curie. I simply followed the lawsuit and was shocked that no Curie allegation was ever raised. If there was anything to Curie having the questions, I guarantee FCPS would have raised it as a defense to why they dropped the test. They did not. You are perpetuating fake news.

DP Of course this wasn't part of the lawsuit. But it was part of the reason for changing the admissions.

Why would a part of the reason not be cited ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

There were 133 offers, but there clearly weren't 133 kids actually attending TJ. Many were offered admissions to AOS or AET in addition to TJ, and probably at least some chunk of the 133 offers were LCPS kids who got in off of the wait list after other LCPS kids turned down TJ for AOS or AET. Curie is of course going to inflate its numbers to promote its program.

Does anyone have the demographics for the kids applying to TJ from LCPS? Is it a mix of all races and SES, or is it almost entirely UMC/wealthy South Asians? If the latter, Curie is likely not a factor at all in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Another idiot who doesn’t believe that a student can take the test cold and succeed. What’s your connection to TJHSST again?

Does seeing the format of the questions help at all?

It wasn't just seeing the format. Many claimed they saw the actual questions ahead of time.

That's a great reason to eliminate the Quant-Q. It doesn't explain why the process was gutted to the point that it's impossible to distinguish between a highly gifted kid and a somewhat above average one. They could have retained a baseline proficiency test, teacher recommendations, more substantial problem solving essays, credit for notable accomplishments etc. while still minimizing the impact of extreme prep.

Well with people buying the test the quantQ didn't help differentiate between students either.

just a complete digression to dehumanise Asian kids.

No one is trying to dehumanized Asian kids. People just don't want access to expensive prep centers to be a significant factor to get into a public school. Pretty sure Asian kids aren't the one paying the $4,000 and trying to game the system. That's all on adults.

The prep center is just an excuse, a red herring to distract from the underlying racist discrimination against Asians. Parents, not just Asian parents, are all resourceful when it comes to the upbringing of their children. Even if you narrowly tailor a law outlawing academic prep centers and tutoring, as authoritarian China has recently done (it's true, look it up), parents will find some other way to raise their kids how they see fit - and some of them will go to great lengths to prepare their kids for a future in STEMP field and target a high school like TJ.

No I think it's an actual problem when the majority of kids being admitted attend one of these centers. This reduces the chances of anyone who doesn't attend. The allegations that one center even had test questions is also concerning.

Unless the prep center is doing something illegal or unethical - like cheating or bribery - there is nothing wrong with one center being successful at providing the type of academic tutoring that makes students successful at applying to a specific selective school. I'll keep reminding people of the fact that the kids who attend this prep school are a self-selected population. Kids don't just show up randomly at this prep center for general tutoring and then magically test into TJ. Kids show up there because they 1) specifically want to attend TJ and 2) already have the academic credentials that make admissions highly likely. I would wager that 100% of all kids who got a 1600 on their SAT, took a sample test from prior test sessions. Does that mean the availability of old tests gives an unfair advantage to kids who score 1600 on SATs?

How do you explain the fact that despite a significant Facebook presence and advertising campaign, literally 100% of the successful TJ applicants from Curie were of South Asian descent?

The burden of proof of wrongdoing is on the person making the claim. Baseless innuendos are worthless and only reflect negatively on your character.

What claim are you arguing? I presented a fact that Curie confirmed when they posted the first and last names of all of their successful TJ, AOS, and AET applicants for the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024 and literally ALL of them were of South Asian descent.

Whatever claim you are trying to insinuate by posting about the geographic origins of Curie students.

Awfully non-specific. That's because I didn't present a claim. I merely presented a fact and asked for a reasonable explanation of that fact, because frankly, I don't have one and can't see one.

Well, then what's the point of presenting the fact? What were you insinuating? Why is it a problem for the students to be south eastern descent? Why does it need explaining at all?

It is a problem that there exists a private tutoring company that nominally exists to get students into TJ that appears to only serve students of one racial background - evidenced by the fact that they have claimed over 250 TJ admits in the last three years and ALL of them are South Asian.

If you can't see why that is a problem this is not a conversation you need to involve yourself in. Something tells me that an extremely successful prep company that exclusively catered to white people and nabbed nearly 30% of a class at TJ would be VERY concerning to South Asians.

Ahhh, now we see the claim. If you believe it's a problem for a prep school to cater to specific demographic groups, that's a case you have to argue and support. It's not for me or anyone else to argue that it's not a problem. The default state of being in the US is that private individuals have the freedom to associate with each other however they choose. Unless you can demonstrate what law or moral code is being broken by Curie, then you have no convincing argument.

BTW, I find this infatuation you have demonstrated to contain a tinge of racism.

1) Curie acted inappropriately, if not illegally, when they obtained questions from a secured exam and used them to prepare students for said exam in future years. There's nothing wrong or immoral about doing this for an UNsecured exam, but the Quant-Q is a brilliant exam that is secured and essentially useless if prepared for.

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

You referenced the laws regarding free association in America. But what you also know if you have lived here for any length of time at all is that it is unseemly to provide a service that appears to exclude individuals who do not belong to your race.

If there were ONE East Asian or white or Black or Hispanic kid in the mix at Curie, that would be one thing - but there isn't. Not one. And that speaks, honestly, to a big part of the reason why change was necessary.

A closed network whose goal is to funnel an exclusive group into a school is highly problematic, especially when that network is almost entirely populated with VERY well-resourced families.

You are missing a point here - curie is run by a retired south asian teacher and a lot of their marketing has been word of mouth. So, its not surprising that you will find south asian students there. Its also possible that style of teaching might repel students/parents from any other cultures or feel out of place. There are quite a few tj prep centers in this area and each cater to specific demographic, though not intentionally. The same happens in Kumon as well, where you will mostly see asians, though a much broader mix of asians even though there isn't much of actual teaching in Kumon to be affected by the style.

Curie might have obtained few questions unethically, but I am not sure if there is anything illegal there. If there is pleas sue them! There is always going to be prepping for any sort of test and you just can't avoid it, though the extent of prep defers. Curie got infamous, but there are several other prep centers in the area, exclusive private tutoring (which you don't often hear), educated parents prepping their kids etc - can you realistically ban all of these activities? You can even find Quant-Q test prep books on Amazon. If this test should not be prepped, then we should ban all the books around it. For gods sake, there are so many folks in these forum who are against prepping for Cogat/NNAT/IAAT, when there many books available to buy. My kids do pretty well in school, but I have to admit, I bought Cogat book from Amazon as well and which probably helped my kid(s) get high enough score to get into AAP. Would they have gotten in with out practice tests? may be, but how I can be sure? - hate me now!

Curie having the questions is fake news. #veryfakenews

Is that your official statement as a representative of Curie?

I have no connection to Curie or anyone that has attended Curie. I simply followed the lawsuit and was shocked that no Curie allegation was ever raised. If there was anything to Curie having the questions, I guarantee FCPS would have raised it as a defense to why they dropped the test. They did not. You are perpetuating fake news.

DP Of course this wasn't part of the lawsuit. But it was part of the reason for changing the admissions.

Why would a part of the reason not be cited ?

Because they don't want to muddy the waters? While it's pretty obviously true, it is very difficult to prove in a court of law... and more to the point, it was simply not necessary for them to do so in order prevail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: American Idol. In the early rounds at least, an amazing “shower singer” would easily beat an untalented person who had years of singing lessons. With singing strong raw talent is undeniable.

+1 Good analogy.

So you are claiming that non-Asian kids are more naturally talented at math than Asian kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another idiot who doesn’t believe that a student can take the test cold and succeed. What’s your connection to TJHSST again?

Does seeing the format of the questions help at all?

It wasn't just seeing the format. Many claimed they saw the actual questions ahead of time.

That's a great reason to eliminate the Quant-Q. It doesn't explain why the process was gutted to the point that it's impossible to distinguish between a highly gifted kid and a somewhat above average one. They could have retained a baseline proficiency test, teacher recommendations, more substantial problem solving essays, credit for notable accomplishments etc. while still minimizing the impact of extreme prep.

Well with people buying the test the quantQ didn't help differentiate between students either.

just a complete digression to dehumanise Asian kids.

No one is trying to dehumanized Asian kids. People just don't want access to expensive prep centers to be a significant factor to get into a public school. Pretty sure Asian kids aren't the one paying the $4,000 and trying to game the system. That's all on adults.

The prep center is just an excuse, a red herring to distract from the underlying racist discrimination against Asians. Parents, not just Asian parents, are all resourceful when it comes to the upbringing of their children. Even if you narrowly tailor a law outlawing academic prep centers and tutoring, as authoritarian China has recently done (it's true, look it up), parents will find some other way to raise their kids how they see fit - and some of them will go to great lengths to prepare their kids for a future in STEMP field and target a high school like TJ.

No I think it's an actual problem when the majority of kids being admitted attend one of these centers. This reduces the chances of anyone who doesn't attend. The allegations that one center even had test questions is also concerning.

Unless the prep center is doing something illegal or unethical - like cheating or bribery - there is nothing wrong with one center being successful at providing the type of academic tutoring that makes students successful at applying to a specific selective school. I'll keep reminding people of the fact that the kids who attend this prep school are a self-selected population. Kids don't just show up randomly at this prep center for general tutoring and then magically test into TJ. Kids show up there because they 1) specifically want to attend TJ and 2) already have the academic credentials that make admissions highly likely. I would wager that 100% of all kids who got a 1600 on their SAT, took a sample test from prior test sessions. Does that mean the availability of old tests gives an unfair advantage to kids who score 1600 on SATs?

How do you explain the fact that despite a significant Facebook presence and advertising campaign, literally 100% of the successful TJ applicants from Curie were of South Asian descent?

The burden of proof of wrongdoing is on the person making the claim. Baseless innuendos are worthless and only reflect negatively on your character.

What claim are you arguing? I presented a fact that Curie confirmed when they posted the first and last names of all of their successful TJ, AOS, and AET applicants for the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024 and literally ALL of them were of South Asian descent.

Whatever claim you are trying to insinuate by posting about the geographic origins of Curie students.

Awfully non-specific. That's because I didn't present a claim. I merely presented a fact and asked for a reasonable explanation of that fact, because frankly, I don't have one and can't see one.

Well, then what's the point of presenting the fact? What were you insinuating? Why is it a problem for the students to be south eastern descent? Why does it need explaining at all?

It is a problem that there exists a private tutoring company that nominally exists to get students into TJ that appears to only serve students of one racial background - evidenced by the fact that they have claimed over 250 TJ admits in the last three years and ALL of them are South Asian.

If you can't see why that is a problem this is not a conversation you need to involve yourself in. Something tells me that an extremely successful prep company that exclusively catered to white people and nabbed nearly 30% of a class at TJ would be VERY concerning to South Asians.

Ahhh, now we see the claim. If you believe it's a problem for a prep school to cater to specific demographic groups, that's a case you have to argue and support. It's not for me or anyone else to argue that it's not a problem. The default state of being in the US is that private individuals have the freedom to associate with each other however they choose. Unless you can demonstrate what law or moral code is being broken by Curie, then you have no convincing argument.

BTW, I find this infatuation you have demonstrated to contain a tinge of racism.

1) Curie acted inappropriately, if not illegally, when they obtained questions from a secured exam and used them to prepare students for said exam in future years. There's nothing wrong or immoral about doing this for an UNsecured exam, but the Quant-Q is a brilliant exam that is secured and essentially useless if prepared for.

2) Furthermore, it is self-evident that they do so with the express purpose of advancing one racial group's acceptances to a publicly-funded institution of higher learning - the 133 offers that they claimed and annotated in the Class of 2024 was equivalent to about 75% of the South Asian population of that class. This statistic only furthers the disgusting narrative that Asian - and specifically Indian - students are only at TJ because their parents paid for expensive prep, when in fact it's likely that a large majority of those students would have been very strong candidates for TJ Admissions even without the impact of the money their parents spent.

You referenced the laws regarding free association in America. But what you also know if you have lived here for any length of time at all is that it is unseemly to provide a service that appears to exclude individuals who do not belong to your race.

If there were ONE East Asian or white or Black or Hispanic kid in the mix at Curie, that would be one thing - but there isn't. Not one. And that speaks, honestly, to a big part of the reason why change was necessary.

A closed network whose goal is to funnel an exclusive group into a school is highly problematic, especially when that network is almost entirely populated with VERY well-resourced families.

You are missing a point here - curie is run by a retired south asian teacher and a lot of their marketing has been word of mouth. So, its not surprising that you will find south asian students there. Its also possible that style of teaching might repel students/parents from any other cultures or feel out of place. There are quite a few tj prep centers in this area and each cater to specific demographic, though not intentionally. The same happens in Kumon as well, where you will mostly see asians, though a much broader mix of asians even though there isn't much of actual teaching in Kumon to be affected by the style.

Curie might have obtained few questions unethically, but I am not sure if there is anything illegal there. If there is pleas sue them! There is always going to be prepping for any sort of test and you just can't avoid it, though the extent of prep defers. Curie got infamous, but there are several other prep centers in the area, exclusive private tutoring (which you don't often hear), educated parents prepping their kids etc - can you realistically ban all of these activities? You can even find Quant-Q test prep books on Amazon. If this test should not be prepped, then we should ban all the books around it. For gods sake, there are so many folks in these forum who are against prepping for Cogat/NNAT/IAAT, when there many books available to buy. My kids do pretty well in school, but I have to admit, I bought Cogat book from Amazon as well and which probably helped my kid(s) get high enough score to get into AAP. Would they have gotten in with out practice tests? may be, but how I can be sure? - hate me now!

Curie having the questions is fake news. #veryfakenews

Is that your official statement as a representative of Curie?

I have no connection to Curie or anyone that has attended Curie. I simply followed the lawsuit and was shocked that no Curie allegation was ever raised. If there was anything to Curie having the questions, I guarantee FCPS would have raised it as a defense to why they dropped the test. They did not. You are perpetuating fake news.

DP Of course this wasn't part of the lawsuit. But it was part of the reason for changing the admissions.

Why would a part of the reason not be cited ?

Because they don't want to muddy the waters? While it's pretty obviously true, it is very difficult to prove in a court of law... and more to the point, it was simply not necessary for them to do so in order prevail.

LMAO… good one.

Oh you are serious?