Africans and blacks in Ukraine

[Anonymous]

There is a bloody war going on in Ukraine, there are people dying in Ukraine; there are a lots of Women, elderly, and children trying to leave.
Are you arguing what happen in China? Start your own thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How dare anyone call out racism in another country! Ukrainians are fleeing for their lives. Focus on what matters!

See this is what gets me. These posters who insist that we should focus on that. When will these people understand that it is not just Ukrainians fleeing for their lives, but other nationalities too and they don't deserve racist treatment when they could also lose their lives. How is it okay that women who came early for the train were asked to wait for 7 hours and then turned away, all while watching Ukrainians board the train. Their lives matter too.

In the videos posted above of the economic refugees, I see more men than women, very few children. These people have already given up on their native land, going from country to country to improve themselves economically. Ukrainians, on the other hand, are fleeing from a war-torn country, mostly women and children. Even when men are escorting them, the report is that many of these men are escorting their wives and children to safety - only to return to Ukraine at the Polish border to join the war effort.

OP, if you truly care about the plight of these economic migrants/refugees as you claim, you, too, can do your part. Join in their cause, help them resettle, send your support, money, resources to their embassies that are coordinating the resettlement.

[Anonymous]

I refuse to wish any ill on a country of people who are LITERALLY fighting for their lives because of a charge of racism - whether it is real or perceived or flat out false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How dare anyone call out racism in another country! Ukrainians are fleeing for their lives. Focus on what matters!

See this is what gets me. These posters who insist that we should focus on that. When will these people understand that it is not just Ukrainians fleeing for their lives, but other nationalities too and they don't deserve racist treatment when they could also lose their lives. How is it okay that women who came early for the train were asked to wait for 7 hours and then turned away, all while watching Ukrainians board the train. Their lives matter too.

In the videos posted above of the economic refugees, I see more men than women, very few children. These people have already given up on their native land, going from country to country to improve themselves economically. Ukrainians, on the other hand, are fleeing from a war-torn country, mostly women and children. Even when men are escorting them, the report is that many of these men are escorting their wives and children to safety - only to return to Ukraine at the Polish border to join the war effort.

OP, if you truly care about the plight of these economic migrants/refugees as you claim, you, too, can do your part. Join in their cause, help them resettle, send your support, money, resources to their embassies that are coordinating the resettlement.

The reason you don't see children is because these are students who have gone there to study - they are not moving from country to country after giving up on their native land like you claim. They have gone there because the education is cheaper. You can argue all you want, but not letting them (the women) board the train because they are black or brown is not okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How dare anyone call out racism in another country! Ukrainians are fleeing for their lives. Focus on what matters!

See this is what gets me. These posters who insist that we should focus on that. When will these people understand that it is not just Ukrainians fleeing for their lives, but other nationalities too and they don't deserve racist treatment when they could also lose their lives. How is it okay that women who came early for the train were asked to wait for 7 hours and then turned away, all while watching Ukrainians board the train. Their lives matter too.

In the videos posted above of the economic refugees, I see more men than women, very few children. These people have already given up on their native land, going from country to country to improve themselves economically. Ukrainians, on the other hand, are fleeing from a war-torn country, mostly women and children. Even when men are escorting them, the report is that many of these men are escorting their wives and children to safety - only to return to Ukraine at the Polish border to join the war effort.

OP, if you truly care about the plight of these economic migrants/refugees as you claim, you, too, can do your part. Join in their cause, help them resettle, send your support, money, resources to their embassies that are coordinating the resettlement.

The reason you don't see children is because these are students who have gone there to study - they are not moving from country to country after giving up on their native land like you claim. They have gone there because the education is cheaper. You can argue all you want, but not letting them (the women) board the train because they are black or brown is not okay.

International students, historically, have been more men than women. The perception of more men than women among students/economic migrants appears to be correct. In lifeboat ethics, it's never about able-bodied men. It's always been women, children, and the elderly first.

If you truly believe in students/economic migrants - who voluntarily left their own lands with their family members in relative safety - you can send your financial support to the agencies that are coordinating their resettlement elsewhere. This would be magnanimous and awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How dare anyone call out racism in another country! Ukrainians are fleeing for their lives. Focus on what matters!

See this is what gets me. These posters who insist that we should focus on that. When will these people understand that it is not just Ukrainians fleeing for their lives, but other nationalities too and they don't deserve racist treatment when they could also lose their lives. How is it okay that women who came early for the train were asked to wait for 7 hours and then turned away, all while watching Ukrainians board the train. Their lives matter too.

In the videos posted above of the economic refugees, I see more men than women, very few children. These people have already given up on their native land, going from country to country to improve themselves economically. Ukrainians, on the other hand, are fleeing from a war-torn country, mostly women and children. Even when men are escorting them, the report is that many of these men are escorting their wives and children to safety - only to return to Ukraine at the Polish border to join the war effort.

OP, if you truly care about the plight of these economic migrants/refugees as you claim, you, too, can do your part. Join in their cause, help them resettle, send your support, money, resources to their embassies that are coordinating the resettlement.

The reason you don't see children is because these are students who have gone there to study - they are not moving from country to country after giving up on their native land like you claim. They have gone there because the education is cheaper. You can argue all you want, but not letting them (the women) board the train because they are black or brown is not okay.

International students, historically, have been more men than women. The perception of more men than women among students/economic migrants appears to be correct. In lifeboat ethics, it's never about able-bodied men. It's always been women, children, and the elderly first.

If you truly believe in students/economic migrants - who voluntarily left their own lands with their family members in relative safety - you can send your financial support to the agencies that are coordinating their resettlement elsewhere. This would be magnanimous and awesome.

Read is fundamental - re-read my post where I say not letting them board (the women) is wrong. Sure there were many men there, but the women were not allowed to board either.

I've already donated and I hope you did too for the Ukrainians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is saying that there aren’t racists in Ukraine.

Then you haven't read the thread. The reason there are so many pages in this thread is because anyone who called out the racism is a Russian propaganda machine.

For those who were asking why the Indian kids did not leave earlier, some students who evacuated gave an interview and mentioned it was the Ukrainian universities who refused to give online classes in the beginning. These kids came to Ukraine because the education is cheaper than in India for medicine, so they couldn't abandon ship when the university threated them about their degrees if they left and they were in final year. And the Indian government did not ask them to evacuate immediately. Racism from Ukrainian officials combined with poor planning by the Indian embassy. And Modi's cheerleaders are doing photo ops with students who have landed, inside the plane, and giving speeches. Everyone sucks.

https://twitter.com/ManojMujra/status/1498962408135888900?cxt=HHwWiMDUycmXsc0pAAAA

I've read the entire thread. Yes, some people dismissed the concerns as Russian propaganda. Most people simply took issue with your view that because there are racists in Ukraine, the country deserves whatever Russia does to it.

DP. Hardly anyone said that the country deserves whatever Russia does to it. What people did say is that the extent of Ukrainians’ racism and cruelty to Asian, African, and Middle Eastern people trying to flee the same peril as Ukrainians + the fact that Neo-Nazis are firmly entrenched within Ukrainian society and government = They’re rethinking blind support of Ukraine and aware now that there are bad actors on both sides. No one has questioned that Russia is the aggressor and committing atrocities.

I’m astonished at the dishonesty and narcissism of some of you who would have POC and allies ignore the virulent racism of Ukrainian society. The idea of this not being the time and place is so callous and arrogant. People absolutely have the right to make moral judgments in deciding how to allocate their emotional and financial resources. In fact, Zelensky and the cadre of Ukrainians doing PR for the country have cast themselves as victims and saints in very moralistic, even biblical terms precisely because the morality of the situation matters. For us to consider facts that complicate the simplistic narrative and draw new conclusions is perfectly valid.

Well said!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How dare anyone call out racism in another country! Ukrainians are fleeing for their lives. Focus on what matters!

See this is what gets me. These posters who insist that we should focus on that. When will these people understand that it is not just Ukrainians fleeing for their lives, but other nationalities too and they don't deserve racist treatment when they could also lose their lives. How is it okay that women who came early for the train were asked to wait for 7 hours and then turned away, all while watching Ukrainians board the train. Their lives matter too.

In the videos posted above of the economic refugees, I see more men than women, very few children. These people have already given up on their native land, going from country to country to improve themselves economically. Ukrainians, on the other hand, are fleeing from a war-torn country, mostly women and children. Even when men are escorting them, the report is that many of these men are escorting their wives and children to safety - only to return to Ukraine at the Polish border to join the war effort.

OP, if you truly care about the plight of these economic migrants/refugees as you claim, you, too, can do your part. Join in their cause, help them resettle, send your support, money, resources to their embassies that are coordinating the resettlement.

The reason you don't see children is because these are students who have gone there to study - they are not moving from country to country after giving up on their native land like you claim. They have gone there because the education is cheaper. You can argue all you want, but not letting them (the women) board the train because they are black or brown is not okay.

I think we need more than this one video to confirm that these students were not allowed to board the train purely because of their skin color. To be fair, this is a very polarizing and emotion-stirring subject, and likely could be propaganda or exaggerated to stir emotions. This is done by BOTH sides of every conflict, and we are witnessing this "sainting" of Ukraine and its hero-leader as if "their shit don't stink". I am sure there is plenty of internal problems Ukraine has had since they went independent and their own people aren't as united as is presented to the outside world, there are nazi groups, there are pro-russian groups likely too. But to be the "devil's advocate here.. there was an article that these students were not allowed to board because of this being a wrong train, they had tickets for another train supposedly, so were denied boarding. It's likely that they had a group booking and were together, so when they were denied boarding, it looked like they were singled out and discrminated against. Any of you can find this info if interested, it's not as clear cut as what usually makes things trend on Twitter..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How dare anyone call out racism in another country! Ukrainians are fleeing for their lives. Focus on what matters!

See this is what gets me. These posters who insist that we should focus on that. When will these people understand that it is not just Ukrainians fleeing for their lives, but other nationalities too and they don't deserve racist treatment when they could also lose their lives. How is it okay that women who came early for the train were asked to wait for 7 hours and then turned away, all while watching Ukrainians board the train. Their lives matter too.

In the videos posted above of the economic refugees, I see more men than women, very few children. These people have already given up on their native land, going from country to country to improve themselves economically. Ukrainians, on the other hand, are fleeing from a war-torn country, mostly women and children. Even when men are escorting them, the report is that many of these men are escorting their wives and children to safety - only to return to Ukraine at the Polish border to join the war effort.

OP, if you truly care about the plight of these economic migrants/refugees as you claim, you, too, can do your part. Join in their cause, help them resettle, send your support, money, resources to their embassies that are coordinating the resettlement.

The reason you don't see children is because these are students who have gone there to study - they are not moving from country to country after giving up on their native land like you claim. They have gone there because the education is cheaper. You can argue all you want, but not letting them (the women) board the train because they are black or brown is not okay.

I think we need more than this one video to confirm that these students were not allowed to board the train purely because of their skin color. To be fair, this is a very polarizing and emotion-stirring subject, and likely could be propaganda or exaggerated to stir emotions. This is done by BOTH sides of every conflict, and we are witnessing this "sainting" of Ukraine and its hero-leader as if "their shit don't stink". I am sure there is plenty of internal problems Ukraine has had since they went independent and their own people aren't as united as is presented to the outside world, there are nazi groups, there are pro-russian groups likely too. But to be the "devil's advocate here.. there was an article that these students were not allowed to board because of this being a wrong train, they had tickets for another train supposedly, so were denied boarding. It's likely that they had a group booking and were together, so when they were denied boarding, it looked like they were singled out and discrminated against. Any of you can find this info if interested, it's not as clear cut as what usually makes things trend on Twitter..

Goodness gracious. How many apologists are going to slide into this thread trying to lie about events the UN and governments surrounding Ukraine have already acknowledged happened? It wasn’t just men being pulled off trains and it wasn’t just one train. It was people from India, Nigeria, and countries all over the Middle East — literally everyone nonwhite, whether male or female, being pulled off trains by Ukrainians. Furthermore, those POC who made it to the border of Ukraine with various countries were detained by Ukrainian civilians and law enforcement for SEVERAL days OUTSIDE in freezing conditions without shelter or food. Women of colors with babies were treated the same way as the men. Many had hypothermia and were in varying degrees of physical and emotional distress. Just astonishing cruelty.

[Anonymous]

So people are dying and we're singling out black people? When did it matter what the color of the person was?

Is it going to finally happen? Will someone admit that Europe is in fact more racist than the US?

Don't believe me? Take a trip to Spain or Italy with a black American and see what happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So people are dying and we're singling out black people? When did it matter what the color of the person was?

Is it going to finally happen? Will someone admit that Europe is in fact more racist than the US?

Don't believe me? Take a trip to Spain or Italy with a black American and see what happens.

Perhaps, but so what
Foreigners should have left long before anyone else and had ample time to do so
They are not in a position to cater for them

[Anonymous]

Everyone trying to deny or downplay the racism and cruelty Ukrainians subjected literally every non-white group to needs to read these articles and STFU. Just stop carrying water for racists, you twits.

“Foreign Refugees Fleeing Ukraine Say They Were Held for Days at Border” https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/foreign-refugees-fleeing-ukraine-say-they-were-held-for-days-at-border-11646218800

“Open the door or we die': Africans report racism and hostility trying to flee Ukraine” https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna17953

“International students, refugees from Africa and Middle East report discrimination fleeing Ukraine” https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/international-students-refugees-from-africa-and-middle-east-report-discrimination-fleeing-ukraine

“Africans Say Ukrainian Authorities Hindered Them From Fleeing” https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/01/world/europe/ukraine-refugee-discrimination.html

“How Indians fleeing Ukraine ran into racism” https://m.timesofindia.com/india/how-indians-fleeing-ukraine-ran-into-racism/amp_articleshow/89950079.cms

“Nigeria condemns treatment of Africans trying to flee Ukraine” https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/nigeria-condemns-treatment-africans-trying-to-flee-ukraine-government-poland-discrimination

“U.N. urges countries to open borders to Africans fleeing Ukraine” https://www.reuters.com/world/un-urges-countries-open-borders-africans-fleeing-ukraine-2022-03-02/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So people are dying and we're singling out black people? When did it matter what the color of the person was?

Is it going to finally happen? Will someone admit that Europe is in fact more racist than the US?

Don't believe me? Take a trip to Spain or Italy with a black American and see what happens.

Perhaps, but so what
Foreigners should have left long before anyone else and had ample time to do so
They are not in a position to cater for them

I am the previous poster and I agree. That is my point.

[Anonymous]

My armchair guess as to these videos of African or Indian people being turned away on trains is that, if true, is very sad and fked up, but is also being used a Russian propaganda to bolster support for their purported campaign to “denazify” the Ukraine. Also, Russian and malign actors are aware of America’s current heightened interest in assessing racial disparities as a result of the racial reckoning we’re seeing nationwide. They probably want to drum up better sentiment for their war campaign based on these types of videos and to sow doubt and unrest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My armchair guess as to these videos of African or Indian people being turned away on trains is that, if true, is very sad and fked up, but is also being used a Russian propaganda to bolster support for their purported campaign to “denazify” the Ukraine. Also, Russian and malign actors are aware of America’s current heightened interest in assessing racial disparities as a result of the racial reckoning we’re seeing nationwide. They probably want to drum up better sentiment for their war campaign based on these types of videos and to sow doubt and unrest.

What I meant is they probably air these on their Twitter or spread them online to portray Ukrainians in a poor light and detract from the overwhelming worldwide support of Ukraine over this war campaign.