Accommodation Nation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My freshman Ivy child has two roommates and both have extra time. They each are given 2-3 days to take exams that the rest of the kids are given 2-3 hours to complete. Both attended private schools. Both are very bright and very wealthy. Both have the extra time for "anxiety."

I'd be pissed if I was a professor or a person who had a kid with dyslexia or significant ADHD or a learning difference. It's apparently a huge difficulty to get these exams proctored, especially if the student also needs a quiet study pod because there are not enough pods for the onslaught of students who now require them.

I have no idea how this generation of kids will cope in jobs with deadlines and noise and without parents to run interference. But I guess the workforce will adapt. Maybe everyone will get a week and a soundproof pod to write an email.

Easy. You find a job that doesn’t have deadlines. There are lots of jobs like that out there.

When was the last time you sat for a timed test at your job? The lack of understanding here is unreal.

Most times your boss tells you "I need this today" it doesn't mean you get to nitpick and say "well, if you gave Legal 3 days to respond instead of 5, I could turn it in tomorrow, right? My reasonable accommodation says I get more time!"

How often does your boss say, “I need you answer three unrelated questions in 500 words each concerning topics discussed over the last 4 months in exactly 90 minutes”?

What if you needed to just one of those things in 30 minutes? Because that happens all the time.

I've never had a single request like that in my *checks notes* 18 years of full-time employment.

That’s because nobody thinks you can do it and asks someone else.

lol. So true. We have one like that on my team at work. Everyone knows they don’t get any time sensitive assignments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as an attorney and it’s shocking (and getting worse every year) how many new employees come in that don’t seem to understand that when I say I need something by noon on Thursday, that isn’t a guideline or a suggestion or a wish. I’m sure I’m not very popular with the young ones. They either figure it out after the first couple assignments or they find other employment.

I’m an attorney too and I’m seeing younger employees come in with that mindset too. Constant requests for time off, constant sick days, not planning ahead, not taking initiative, disregarding instructions. I don’t know if it’s the pandemic, the economy, accommodations, helicopter parenting, or some combination of everything.

More attorneys sharing parenting responsibilities across gender lines, worse childcare options, and fewer people thinking their employers will love them back for making their entire life work.

In the law firm world, the client does not care about those things. Especially not at the rates we charge. If that’s not for you, totally understand. But if you want big law pay, you’ll have to get up to speed or be pushed out. When we tell a client we will get them something by a deadline, we do it barring truly extenuating circumstances. And if you are a litigator, the deadlines are truly firm and imposed by the court/the statute.

I say this as an attorney (one of maybe the majority of this board), but maybe you should staff cases/deals better? Your employees are human beings with human needs. And they have legal entitlement to things like paid sick leave, parental leave, FMLA, etc. You need to structure your staffing to be able to accommodate these inevitabilities, especially when so many firms makes (bullshit) promises about supporting working parents and valuing employee health and wellbeing.

Being a big law attorney is a demanding job. It’s not the kind of job for someone who needs a soft workplace. If we have a filing deadline, we have to get it done whether your kid is sick or not. And no we don’t just keep extra staff on hand just in case. If you let a senior attorney down enough times they will stop bringing work to you. Again, it’s not for everyone.

Complying with DC paid leave laws, FMLA, and the firm’s written employment policies isn’t “soft.” It’s a requirement to run a business. Maybe if the attorneys running the show can’t figure out how to follow basic laws, they shouldn’t be running a law firm tasked with ensuring legal compliance.

In any event, I don’t disagree with your assessment of the culture of biglaw. I personally lateraled after an inexcusable experience with inflexibility. I requested a single day off two weeks in advance to take my mom (multiple states away) to her cancer surgery. I reminded everyone the day before and set an OOO. Managing partner called me three times, emailed me five times, and texted me “HURRY PLEASE” all before 9 am for something that was absolutely objectively not urgent. These firms are run by psychopaths, and I’m thrilled the younger generation is pushing back.

That’s not at all what we are talking about. We are talking about employees who are not on any sort of leave not being able to meet deadlines communicated well in advance. It’s happening more and more and the younger workforce is showing no time management whatsoever. If I request a 30-60 minute deliverable from you on Friday morning, I want it on Friday before you leave. Friday is still a workday.

That's what PP was talking about (don't know if that's you). "Constant requests for time off, constant sick days" as specific complaints. And in my experience, law firms are not respectful at all of needing to take the day off for your own illness, a child's illness, or a family member's illness.

I’m not the time off PP. But my firm does have a huge problem with younger associates not understanding that they need to get their deliverables done by the deadline, and if they don’t understand the task or it’s taking too long they need to communicate that long before the deadline occurs. Not allow the deadline to occur, and then only when pressed, admit they didn’t do it yet or didn’t understand it. And yes, sometimes in this line of work we work into the evening or on a weekend. If that is a hard no for you, then it’s probably not the right place for you. That’s fine, but at our rates our clients expect responsiveness. We can have a societal discussion about whether that is good or not, but at this point in time if we don’t meet deadlines our clients will leave for firms who will.

So take fewer clients and responsiveness to your clients is not a problem. Stop rationalizing being a slave driver so that you can make 100k more a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My freshman Ivy child has two roommates and both have extra time. They each are given 2-3 days to take exams that the rest of the kids are given 2-3 hours to complete. Both attended private schools. Both are very bright and very wealthy. Both have the extra time for "anxiety."

I'd be pissed if I was a professor or a person who had a kid with dyslexia or significant ADHD or a learning difference. It's apparently a huge difficulty to get these exams proctored, especially if the student also needs a quiet study pod because there are not enough pods for the onslaught of students who now require them.

I have no idea how this generation of kids will cope in jobs with deadlines and noise and without parents to run interference. But I guess the workforce will adapt. Maybe everyone will get a week and a soundproof pod to write an email.

Easy. You find a job that doesn’t have deadlines. There are lots of jobs like that out there.

When was the last time you sat for a timed test at your job? The lack of understanding here is unreal.

Most times your boss tells you "I need this today" it doesn't mean you get to nitpick and say "well, if you gave Legal 3 days to respond instead of 5, I could turn it in tomorrow, right? My reasonable accommodation says I get more time!"

How often does your boss say, “I need you answer three unrelated questions in 500 words each concerning topics discussed over the last 4 months in exactly 90 minutes”?

What if you needed to just one of those things in 30 minutes? Because that happens all the time.

I've never had a single request like that in my *checks notes* 18 years of full-time employment.

That’s because nobody thinks you can do it and asks someone else.

lol. So true. We have one like that on my team at work. Everyone knows they don’t get any time sensitive assignments.

Do they provide value in other ways? Every team member doesn’t need to have the same skill set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as an attorney and it’s shocking (and getting worse every year) how many new employees come in that don’t seem to understand that when I say I need something by noon on Thursday, that isn’t a guideline or a suggestion or a wish. I’m sure I’m not very popular with the young ones. They either figure it out after the first couple assignments or they find other employment.

I’m an attorney too and I’m seeing younger employees come in with that mindset too. Constant requests for time off, constant sick days, not planning ahead, not taking initiative, disregarding instructions. I don’t know if it’s the pandemic, the economy, accommodations, helicopter parenting, or some combination of everything.

More attorneys sharing parenting responsibilities across gender lines, worse childcare options, and fewer people thinking their employers will love them back for making their entire life work.

In the law firm world, the client does not care about those things. Especially not at the rates we charge. If that’s not for you, totally understand. But if you want big law pay, you’ll have to get up to speed or be pushed out. When we tell a client we will get them something by a deadline, we do it barring truly extenuating circumstances. And if you are a litigator, the deadlines are truly firm and imposed by the court/the statute.

I say this as an attorney (one of maybe the majority of this board), but maybe you should staff cases/deals better? Your employees are human beings with human needs. And they have legal entitlement to things like paid sick leave, parental leave, FMLA, etc. You need to structure your staffing to be able to accommodate these inevitabilities, especially when so many firms makes (bullshit) promises about supporting working parents and valuing employee health and wellbeing.

Being a big law attorney is a demanding job. It’s not the kind of job for someone who needs a soft workplace. If we have a filing deadline, we have to get it done whether your kid is sick or not. And no we don’t just keep extra staff on hand just in case. If you let a senior attorney down enough times they will stop bringing work to you. Again, it’s not for everyone.

Complying with DC paid leave laws, FMLA, and the firm’s written employment policies isn’t “soft.” It’s a requirement to run a business. Maybe if the attorneys running the show can’t figure out how to follow basic laws, they shouldn’t be running a law firm tasked with ensuring legal compliance.

In any event, I don’t disagree with your assessment of the culture of biglaw. I personally lateraled after an inexcusable experience with inflexibility. I requested a single day off two weeks in advance to take my mom (multiple states away) to her cancer surgery. I reminded everyone the day before and set an OOO. Managing partner called me three times, emailed me five times, and texted me “HURRY PLEASE” all before 9 am for something that was absolutely objectively not urgent. These firms are run by psychopaths, and I’m thrilled the younger generation is pushing back.

That’s not at all what we are talking about. We are talking about employees who are not on any sort of leave not being able to meet deadlines communicated well in advance. It’s happening more and more and the younger workforce is showing no time management whatsoever. If I request a 30-60 minute deliverable from you on Friday morning, I want it on Friday before you leave. Friday is still a workday.

That's what PP was talking about (don't know if that's you). "Constant requests for time off, constant sick days" as specific complaints. And in my experience, law firms are not respectful at all of needing to take the day off for your own illness, a child's illness, or a family member's illness.

I’m not the time off PP. But my firm does have a huge problem with younger associates not understanding that they need to get their deliverables done by the deadline, and if they don’t understand the task or it’s taking too long they need to communicate that long before the deadline occurs. Not allow the deadline to occur, and then only when pressed, admit they didn’t do it yet or didn’t understand it. And yes, sometimes in this line of work we work into the evening or on a weekend. If that is a hard no for you, then it’s probably not the right place for you. That’s fine, but at our rates our clients expect responsiveness. We can have a societal discussion about whether that is good or not, but at this point in time if we don’t meet deadlines our clients will leave for firms who will.

So take fewer clients and responsiveness to your clients is not a problem. Stop rationalizing being a slave driver so that you can make 100k more a year.

What happened to: prepare your child for the road, not the road for your child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as an attorney and it’s shocking (and getting worse every year) how many new employees come in that don’t seem to understand that when I say I need something by noon on Thursday, that isn’t a guideline or a suggestion or a wish. I’m sure I’m not very popular with the young ones. They either figure it out after the first couple assignments or they find other employment.

I’m an attorney too and I’m seeing younger employees come in with that mindset too. Constant requests for time off, constant sick days, not planning ahead, not taking initiative, disregarding instructions. I don’t know if it’s the pandemic, the economy, accommodations, helicopter parenting, or some combination of everything.

More attorneys sharing parenting responsibilities across gender lines, worse childcare options, and fewer people thinking their employers will love them back for making their entire life work.

In the law firm world, the client does not care about those things. Especially not at the rates we charge. If that’s not for you, totally understand. But if you want big law pay, you’ll have to get up to speed or be pushed out. When we tell a client we will get them something by a deadline, we do it barring truly extenuating circumstances. And if you are a litigator, the deadlines are truly firm and imposed by the court/the statute.

I say this as an attorney (one of maybe the majority of this board), but maybe you should staff cases/deals better? Your employees are human beings with human needs. And they have legal entitlement to things like paid sick leave, parental leave, FMLA, etc. You need to structure your staffing to be able to accommodate these inevitabilities, especially when so many firms makes (bullshit) promises about supporting working parents and valuing employee health and wellbeing.

Being a big law attorney is a demanding job. It’s not the kind of job for someone who needs a soft workplace. If we have a filing deadline, we have to get it done whether your kid is sick or not. And no we don’t just keep extra staff on hand just in case. If you let a senior attorney down enough times they will stop bringing work to you. Again, it’s not for everyone.

Complying with DC paid leave laws, FMLA, and the firm’s written employment policies isn’t “soft.” It’s a requirement to run a business. Maybe if the attorneys running the show can’t figure out how to follow basic laws, they shouldn’t be running a law firm tasked with ensuring legal compliance.

In any event, I don’t disagree with your assessment of the culture of biglaw. I personally lateraled after an inexcusable experience with inflexibility. I requested a single day off two weeks in advance to take my mom (multiple states away) to her cancer surgery. I reminded everyone the day before and set an OOO. Managing partner called me three times, emailed me five times, and texted me “HURRY PLEASE” all before 9 am for something that was absolutely objectively not urgent. These firms are run by psychopaths, and I’m thrilled the younger generation is pushing back.

That’s not at all what we are talking about. We are talking about employees who are not on any sort of leave not being able to meet deadlines communicated well in advance. It’s happening more and more and the younger workforce is showing no time management whatsoever. If I request a 30-60 minute deliverable from you on Friday morning, I want it on Friday before you leave. Friday is still a workday.

That's what PP was talking about (don't know if that's you). "Constant requests for time off, constant sick days" as specific complaints. And in my experience, law firms are not respectful at all of needing to take the day off for your own illness, a child's illness, or a family member's illness.

I’m not the time off PP. But my firm does have a huge problem with younger associates not understanding that they need to get their deliverables done by the deadline, and if they don’t understand the task or it’s taking too long they need to communicate that long before the deadline occurs. Not allow the deadline to occur, and then only when pressed, admit they didn’t do it yet or didn’t understand it. And yes, sometimes in this line of work we work into the evening or on a weekend. If that is a hard no for you, then it’s probably not the right place for you. That’s fine, but at our rates our clients expect responsiveness. We can have a societal discussion about whether that is good or not, but at this point in time if we don’t meet deadlines our clients will leave for firms who will.

So take fewer clients and responsiveness to your clients is not a problem. Stop rationalizing being a slave driver so that you can make 100k more a year.

Or hire more workers so everyone can have work-life balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My freshman Ivy child has two roommates and both have extra time. They each are given 2-3 days to take exams that the rest of the kids are given 2-3 hours to complete. Both attended private schools. Both are very bright and very wealthy. Both have the extra time for "anxiety."

I'd be pissed if I was a professor or a person who had a kid with dyslexia or significant ADHD or a learning difference. It's apparently a huge difficulty to get these exams proctored, especially if the student also needs a quiet study pod because there are not enough pods for the onslaught of students who now require them.

I have no idea how this generation of kids will cope in jobs with deadlines and noise and without parents to run interference. But I guess the workforce will adapt. Maybe everyone will get a week and a soundproof pod to write an email.

Easy. You find a job that doesn’t have deadlines. There are lots of jobs like that out there.

When was the last time you sat for a timed test at your job? The lack of understanding here is unreal.

When was the last time your boss was going to an important client meeting and dropped a list of vli
client concerns and complains she just got in an email and said "give me responses to,these I can use to keep the contract. I need it in 30 minutes because they are showing up at 4."

You don't get extra time.

Personally, none of my “urgent requests” are like that. If I have a real emergency, it’s almost always related to the more mundane issues involved with filings, or hoping to find an on point case for a disorganized partner in advance of a meet and confer.

Anything requiring rigorous analysis and written work product goes through multiple, redundant levels of review to ensure perfection. Everything is done with painstaking precision. The frantic assignments are about working in a line edit 15 minutes before a filing deadline or something like that.

You are in law or government?
It's different in consulting, tech sales, and many other places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My freshman Ivy child has two roommates and both have extra time. They each are given 2-3 days to take exams that the rest of the kids are given 2-3 hours to complete. Both attended private schools. Both are very bright and very wealthy. Both have the extra time for "anxiety."

I'd be pissed if I was a professor or a person who had a kid with dyslexia or significant ADHD or a learning difference. It's apparently a huge difficulty to get these exams proctored, especially if the student also needs a quiet study pod because there are not enough pods for the onslaught of students who now require them.

I have no idea how this generation of kids will cope in jobs with deadlines and noise and without parents to run interference. But I guess the workforce will adapt. Maybe everyone will get a week and a soundproof pod to write an email.

Easy. You find a job that doesn’t have deadlines. There are lots of jobs like that out there.

When was the last time you sat for a timed test at your job? The lack of understanding here is unreal.

When was the last time your boss was going to an important client meeting and dropped a list of vli
client concerns and complains she just got in an email and said "give me responses to,these I can use to keep the contract. I need it in 30 minutes because they are showing up at 4."

You don't get extra time.

Personally, none of my “urgent requests” are like that. If I have a real emergency, it’s almost always related to the more mundane issues involved with filings, or hoping to find an on point case for a disorganized partner in advance of a meet and confer.

Anything requiring rigorous analysis and written work product goes through multiple, redundant levels of review to ensure perfection. Everything is done with painstaking precision. The frantic assignments are about working in a line edit 15 minutes before a filing deadline or something like that.

You are in law or government?
It's different in consulting, tech sales, and many other places.

.

Big law.

All jobs are different. Nobody is top 1% in everything. That’s kind of the point.

People who need extended time on exams can be successful in a variety of very demanding jobs, and plenty of jobs aren’t temporally demanding. Few jobs have anything like timed, closed book exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My freshman Ivy child has two roommates and both have extra time. They each are given 2-3 days to take exams that the rest of the kids are given 2-3 hours to complete. Both attended private schools. Both are very bright and very wealthy. Both have the extra time for "anxiety."

I'd be pissed if I was a professor or a person who had a kid with dyslexia or significant ADHD or a learning difference. It's apparently a huge difficulty to get these exams proctored, especially if the student also needs a quiet study pod because there are not enough pods for the onslaught of students who now require them.

I have no idea how this generation of kids will cope in jobs with deadlines and noise and without parents to run interference. But I guess the workforce will adapt. Maybe everyone will get a week and a soundproof pod to write an email.

Easy. You find a job that doesn’t have deadlines. There are lots of jobs like that out there.

When was the last time you sat for a timed test at your job? The lack of understanding here is unreal.

Most times your boss tells you "I need this today" it doesn't mean you get to nitpick and say "well, if you gave Legal 3 days to respond instead of 5, I could turn it in tomorrow, right? My reasonable accommodation says I get more time!"

How often does your boss say, “I need you answer three unrelated questions in 500 words each concerning topics discussed over the last 4 months in exactly 90 minutes”?

What if you needed to just one of those things in 30 minutes? Because that happens all the time.

I've never had a single request like that in my *checks notes* 18 years of full-time employment.

That’s because nobody thinks you can do it and asks someone else.

More likely your employer makes your tasks consist only of rapid response rote work because they know you’re not capable of critical thinking.

So rapid response work doesn't involve critical thinking? Tell me you don't understand what having rapid processing speed means without telling me...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as an attorney and it’s shocking (and getting worse every year) how many new employees come in that don’t seem to understand that when I say I need something by noon on Thursday, that isn’t a guideline or a suggestion or a wish. I’m sure I’m not very popular with the young ones. They either figure it out after the first couple assignments or they find other employment.

I’m an attorney too and I’m seeing younger employees come in with that mindset too. Constant requests for time off, constant sick days, not planning ahead, not taking initiative, disregarding instructions. I don’t know if it’s the pandemic, the economy, accommodations, helicopter parenting, or some combination of everything.

More attorneys sharing parenting responsibilities across gender lines, worse childcare options, and fewer people thinking their employers will love them back for making their entire life work.

In the law firm world, the client does not care about those things. Especially not at the rates we charge. If that’s not for you, totally understand. But if you want big law pay, you’ll have to get up to speed or be pushed out. When we tell a client we will get them something by a deadline, we do it barring truly extenuating circumstances. And if you are a litigator, the deadlines are truly firm and imposed by the court/the statute.

I say this as an attorney (one of maybe the majority of this board), but maybe you should staff cases/deals better? Your employees are human beings with human needs. And they have legal entitlement to things like paid sick leave, parental leave, FMLA, etc. You need to structure your staffing to be able to accommodate these inevitabilities, especially when so many firms makes (bullshit) promises about supporting working parents and valuing employee health and wellbeing.

Being a big law attorney is a demanding job. It’s not the kind of job for someone who needs a soft workplace. If we have a filing deadline, we have to get it done whether your kid is sick or not. And no we don’t just keep extra staff on hand just in case. If you let a senior attorney down enough times they will stop bringing work to you. Again, it’s not for everyone.

Exactly. Nobody who has ever had to have extra time to accomplish tasks is cut out for big law. Acknowledge the disability and that it isn't compatible with all jobs. Or just teach the kids how to handle their time and cut out the disability completely.

You know some of the most gifted litigators in the world have dyslexia and learning disabilities, right? Take a look at David Boies and Elizabeth Cabraser.

They don’t get extra time from the courts based on their dyslexia….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My freshman Ivy child has two roommates and both have extra time. They each are given 2-3 days to take exams that the rest of the kids are given 2-3 hours to complete. Both attended private schools. Both are very bright and very wealthy. Both have the extra time for "anxiety."

I'd be pissed if I was a professor or a person who had a kid with dyslexia or significant ADHD or a learning difference. It's apparently a huge difficulty to get these exams proctored, especially if the student also needs a quiet study pod because there are not enough pods for the onslaught of students who now require them.

I have no idea how this generation of kids will cope in jobs with deadlines and noise and without parents to run interference. But I guess the workforce will adapt. Maybe everyone will get a week and a soundproof pod to write an email.

Easy. You find a job that doesn’t have deadlines. There are lots of jobs like that out there.

When was the last time you sat for a timed test at your job? The lack of understanding here is unreal.

Most times your boss tells you "I need this today" it doesn't mean you get to nitpick and say "well, if you gave Legal 3 days to respond instead of 5, I could turn it in tomorrow, right? My reasonable accommodation says I get more time!"

How often does your boss say, “I need you answer three unrelated questions in 500 words each concerning topics discussed over the last 4 months in exactly 90 minutes”?

What if you needed to just one of those things in 30 minutes? Because that happens all the time.

I've never had a single request like that in my *checks notes* 18 years of full-time employment.

That’s because nobody thinks you can do it and asks someone else.

lol. So true. We have one like that on my team at work. Everyone knows they don’t get any time sensitive assignments.

Do they provide value in other ways? Every team member doesn’t need to have the same skill set.

I mean, they do the minimum amount of work accurately but often are still “so busy” and try to get other people to do their work even though they have a reduced load.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as an attorney and it’s shocking (and getting worse every year) how many new employees come in that don’t seem to understand that when I say I need something by noon on Thursday, that isn’t a guideline or a suggestion or a wish. I’m sure I’m not very popular with the young ones. They either figure it out after the first couple assignments or they find other employment.

I’m an attorney too and I’m seeing younger employees come in with that mindset too. Constant requests for time off, constant sick days, not planning ahead, not taking initiative, disregarding instructions. I don’t know if it’s the pandemic, the economy, accommodations, helicopter parenting, or some combination of everything.

More attorneys sharing parenting responsibilities across gender lines, worse childcare options, and fewer people thinking their employers will love them back for making their entire life work.

In the law firm world, the client does not care about those things. Especially not at the rates we charge. If that’s not for you, totally understand. But if you want big law pay, you’ll have to get up to speed or be pushed out. When we tell a client we will get them something by a deadline, we do it barring truly extenuating circumstances. And if you are a litigator, the deadlines are truly firm and imposed by the court/the statute.

I say this as an attorney (one of maybe the majority of this board), but maybe you should staff cases/deals better? Your employees are human beings with human needs. And they have legal entitlement to things like paid sick leave, parental leave, FMLA, etc. You need to structure your staffing to be able to accommodate these inevitabilities, especially when so many firms makes (bullshit) promises about supporting working parents and valuing employee health and wellbeing.

Being a big law attorney is a demanding job. It’s not the kind of job for someone who needs a soft workplace. If we have a filing deadline, we have to get it done whether your kid is sick or not. And no we don’t just keep extra staff on hand just in case. If you let a senior attorney down enough times they will stop bringing work to you. Again, it’s not for everyone.

Complying with DC paid leave laws, FMLA, and the firm’s written employment policies isn’t “soft.” It’s a requirement to run a business. Maybe if the attorneys running the show can’t figure out how to follow basic laws, they shouldn’t be running a law firm tasked with ensuring legal compliance.

In any event, I don’t disagree with your assessment of the culture of biglaw. I personally lateraled after an inexcusable experience with inflexibility. I requested a single day off two weeks in advance to take my mom (multiple states away) to her cancer surgery. I reminded everyone the day before and set an OOO. Managing partner called me three times, emailed me five times, and texted me “HURRY PLEASE” all before 9 am for something that was absolutely objectively not urgent. These firms are run by psychopaths, and I’m thrilled the younger generation is pushing back.

That’s not at all what we are talking about. We are talking about employees who are not on any sort of leave not being able to meet deadlines communicated well in advance. It’s happening more and more and the younger workforce is showing no time management whatsoever. If I request a 30-60 minute deliverable from you on Friday morning, I want it on Friday before you leave. Friday is still a workday.

That's what PP was talking about (don't know if that's you). "Constant requests for time off, constant sick days" as specific complaints. And in my experience, law firms are not respectful at all of needing to take the day off for your own illness, a child's illness, or a family member's illness.

I’m not the time off PP. But my firm does have a huge problem with younger associates not understanding that they need to get their deliverables done by the deadline, and if they don’t understand the task or it’s taking too long they need to communicate that long before the deadline occurs. Not allow the deadline to occur, and then only when pressed, admit they didn’t do it yet or didn’t understand it. And yes, sometimes in this line of work we work into the evening or on a weekend. If that is a hard no for you, then it’s probably not the right place for you. That’s fine, but at our rates our clients expect responsiveness. We can have a societal discussion about whether that is good or not, but at this point in time if we don’t meet deadlines our clients will leave for firms who will.

So take fewer clients and responsiveness to your clients is not a problem. Stop rationalizing being a slave driver so that you can make 100k more a year.

It’s a free country. No one is forced to work here, but this is how it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as an attorney and it’s shocking (and getting worse every year) how many new employees come in that don’t seem to understand that when I say I need something by noon on Thursday, that isn’t a guideline or a suggestion or a wish. I’m sure I’m not very popular with the young ones. They either figure it out after the first couple assignments or they find other employment.

I’m an attorney too and I’m seeing younger employees come in with that mindset too. Constant requests for time off, constant sick days, not planning ahead, not taking initiative, disregarding instructions. I don’t know if it’s the pandemic, the economy, accommodations, helicopter parenting, or some combination of everything.

More attorneys sharing parenting responsibilities across gender lines, worse childcare options, and fewer people thinking their employers will love them back for making their entire life work.

In the law firm world, the client does not care about those things. Especially not at the rates we charge. If that’s not for you, totally understand. But if you want big law pay, you’ll have to get up to speed or be pushed out. When we tell a client we will get them something by a deadline, we do it barring truly extenuating circumstances. And if you are a litigator, the deadlines are truly firm and imposed by the court/the statute.

I say this as an attorney (one of maybe the majority of this board), but maybe you should staff cases/deals better? Your employees are human beings with human needs. And they have legal entitlement to things like paid sick leave, parental leave, FMLA, etc. You need to structure your staffing to be able to accommodate these inevitabilities, especially when so many firms makes (bullshit) promises about supporting working parents and valuing employee health and wellbeing.

Being a big law attorney is a demanding job. It’s not the kind of job for someone who needs a soft workplace. If we have a filing deadline, we have to get it done whether your kid is sick or not. And no we don’t just keep extra staff on hand just in case. If you let a senior attorney down enough times they will stop bringing work to you. Again, it’s not for everyone.

Exactly. Nobody who has ever had to have extra time to accomplish tasks is cut out for big law. Acknowledge the disability and that it isn't compatible with all jobs. Or just teach the kids how to handle their time and cut out the disability completely.

Extended time big law senior associate checking in! We do fine!

And I’m sure you accept that sometimes you have to work nights and weekends and that’s just how it goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My freshman Ivy child has two roommates and both have extra time. They each are given 2-3 days to take exams that the rest of the kids are given 2-3 hours to complete. Both attended private schools. Both are very bright and very wealthy. Both have the extra time for "anxiety."

I'd be pissed if I was a professor or a person who had a kid with dyslexia or significant ADHD or a learning difference. It's apparently a huge difficulty to get these exams proctored, especially if the student also needs a quiet study pod because there are not enough pods for the onslaught of students who now require them.

I have no idea how this generation of kids will cope in jobs with deadlines and noise and without parents to run interference. But I guess the workforce will adapt. Maybe everyone will get a week and a soundproof pod to write an email.

Easy. You find a job that doesn’t have deadlines. There are lots of jobs like that out there.

When was the last time you sat for a timed test at your job? The lack of understanding here is unreal.

When was the last time your boss was going to an important client meeting and dropped a list of vli
client concerns and complains she just got in an email and said "give me responses to,these I can use to keep the contract. I need it in 30 minutes because they are showing up at 4."

You don't get extra time.

Personally, none of my “urgent requests” are like that. If I have a real emergency, it’s almost always related to the more mundane issues involved with filings, or hoping to find an on point case for a disorganized partner in advance of a meet and confer.

Anything requiring rigorous analysis and written work product goes through multiple, redundant levels of review to ensure perfection. Everything is done with painstaking precision. The frantic assignments are about working in a line edit 15 minutes before a filing deadline or something like that.

You are in law or government?
It's different in consulting, tech sales, and many other places.

.

Big law.

All jobs are different. Nobody is top 1% in everything. That’s kind of the point.

People who need extended time on exams can be successful in a variety of very demanding jobs, and plenty of jobs aren’t temporally demanding. Few jobs have anything like timed, closed book exams.

I think people are getting distracted by the analogy to closed book exams. No, they generally are not reproduced in the workplace. But the absolutely measure skills that are important in many, many jobs - the ability to process and recall information quickly and under time pressure. Essay questions and short answers also test your ability to write quickly and well and synthesize information. Also important in many places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as an attorney and it’s shocking (and getting worse every year) how many new employees come in that don’t seem to understand that when I say I need something by noon on Thursday, that isn’t a guideline or a suggestion or a wish. I’m sure I’m not very popular with the young ones. They either figure it out after the first couple assignments or they find other employment.

I’m an attorney too and I’m seeing younger employees come in with that mindset too. Constant requests for time off, constant sick days, not planning ahead, not taking initiative, disregarding instructions. I don’t know if it’s the pandemic, the economy, accommodations, helicopter parenting, or some combination of everything.

More attorneys sharing parenting responsibilities across gender lines, worse childcare options, and fewer people thinking their employers will love them back for making their entire life work.

In the law firm world, the client does not care about those things. Especially not at the rates we charge. If that’s not for you, totally understand. But if you want big law pay, you’ll have to get up to speed or be pushed out. When we tell a client we will get them something by a deadline, we do it barring truly extenuating circumstances. And if you are a litigator, the deadlines are truly firm and imposed by the court/the statute.

I say this as an attorney (one of maybe the majority of this board), but maybe you should staff cases/deals better? Your employees are human beings with human needs. And they have legal entitlement to things like paid sick leave, parental leave, FMLA, etc. You need to structure your staffing to be able to accommodate these inevitabilities, especially when so many firms makes (bullshit) promises about supporting working parents and valuing employee health and wellbeing.

Being a big law attorney is a demanding job. It’s not the kind of job for someone who needs a soft workplace. If we have a filing deadline, we have to get it done whether your kid is sick or not. And no we don’t just keep extra staff on hand just in case. If you let a senior attorney down enough times they will stop bringing work to you. Again, it’s not for everyone.

Exactly. Nobody who has ever had to have extra time to accomplish tasks is cut out for big law. Acknowledge the disability and that it isn't compatible with all jobs. Or just teach the kids how to handle their time and cut out the disability completely.

Extended time big law senior associate checking in! We do fine!

And I’m sure you accept that sometimes you have to work nights and weekends and that’s just how it goes.

I sure do! Working late and longer than most people is how I'm successful in biglaw. That has nothing to do with whether I'm unable to do my job because I got extended time on exams in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as an attorney and it’s shocking (and getting worse every year) how many new employees come in that don’t seem to understand that when I say I need something by noon on Thursday, that isn’t a guideline or a suggestion or a wish. I’m sure I’m not very popular with the young ones. They either figure it out after the first couple assignments or they find other employment.

I’m an attorney too and I’m seeing younger employees come in with that mindset too. Constant requests for time off, constant sick days, not planning ahead, not taking initiative, disregarding instructions. I don’t know if it’s the pandemic, the economy, accommodations, helicopter parenting, or some combination of everything.

More attorneys sharing parenting responsibilities across gender lines, worse childcare options, and fewer people thinking their employers will love them back for making their entire life work.

In the law firm world, the client does not care about those things. Especially not at the rates we charge. If that’s not for you, totally understand. But if you want big law pay, you’ll have to get up to speed or be pushed out. When we tell a client we will get them something by a deadline, we do it barring truly extenuating circumstances. And if you are a litigator, the deadlines are truly firm and imposed by the court/the statute.

I say this as an attorney (one of maybe the majority of this board), but maybe you should staff cases/deals better? Your employees are human beings with human needs. And they have legal entitlement to things like paid sick leave, parental leave, FMLA, etc. You need to structure your staffing to be able to accommodate these inevitabilities, especially when so many firms makes (bullshit) promises about supporting working parents and valuing employee health and wellbeing.

Being a big law attorney is a demanding job. It’s not the kind of job for someone who needs a soft workplace. If we have a filing deadline, we have to get it done whether your kid is sick or not. And no we don’t just keep extra staff on hand just in case. If you let a senior attorney down enough times they will stop bringing work to you. Again, it’s not for everyone.

Complying with DC paid leave laws, FMLA, and the firm’s written employment policies isn’t “soft.” It’s a requirement to run a business. Maybe if the attorneys running the show can’t figure out how to follow basic laws, they shouldn’t be running a law firm tasked with ensuring legal compliance.

In any event, I don’t disagree with your assessment of the culture of biglaw. I personally lateraled after an inexcusable experience with inflexibility. I requested a single day off two weeks in advance to take my mom (multiple states away) to her cancer surgery. I reminded everyone the day before and set an OOO. Managing partner called me three times, emailed me five times, and texted me “HURRY PLEASE” all before 9 am for something that was absolutely objectively not urgent. These firms are run by psychopaths, and I’m thrilled the younger generation is pushing back.

That’s not at all what we are talking about. We are talking about employees who are not on any sort of leave not being able to meet deadlines communicated well in advance. It’s happening more and more and the younger workforce is showing no time management whatsoever. If I request a 30-60 minute deliverable from you on Friday morning, I want it on Friday before you leave. Friday is still a workday.

That's what PP was talking about (don't know if that's you). "Constant requests for time off, constant sick days" as specific complaints. And in my experience, law firms are not respectful at all of needing to take the day off for your own illness, a child's illness, or a family member's illness.

I’m not the time off PP. But my firm does have a huge problem with younger associates not understanding that they need to get their deliverables done by the deadline, and if they don’t understand the task or it’s taking too long they need to communicate that long before the deadline occurs. Not allow the deadline to occur, and then only when pressed, admit they didn’t do it yet or didn’t understand it. And yes, sometimes in this line of work we work into the evening or on a weekend. If that is a hard no for you, then it’s probably not the right place for you. That’s fine, but at our rates our clients expect responsiveness. We can have a societal discussion about whether that is good or not, but at this point in time if we don’t meet deadlines our clients will leave for firms who will.

So take fewer clients and responsiveness to your clients is not a problem. Stop rationalizing being a slave driver so that you can make 100k more a year.

Or hire more workers so everyone can have work-life balance.

It’s expensive and unnecessary to keep the firm overstaffed on a regular basis so that occasionally when client matters heat up no one has to work past 5. Again, no one is forced to work in Big Law. It’s a choice. Just like no one is forced to be an OB or ER doc. It’s a choice, and certain downsides come with it.