Spare

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

Only one person can inherit. That's a fact of life. Life that has dealt Harry rather a good hand. Older brother is being raised to lead, younger to support him.

He could have had his family if he played by the rules.

This book virtually guarantees he'd never be welcome back.

Harry was given a huge platform to lead within the RF, Invictus Games and Military advocacy, Climate Change, Mental Health. He is simply envious of his brother. If he wants to be on equal footing with his brother he has to go earn it himself, and as we have seen he is incapable of even making a living for himself beyond trashing his family, let alone take on a leadership role in the world stage.

Nope. Wrong again. Harry said they would have been happy to stay in the fold and be working royals all their lives if Charles and Will would only stop feeding negative stories about them to the press and scapegoating Meghan. Not exactly a huge request.

Is there more evidence about this, other than the one letter to her father that was leaked? A violation of privacy, to be sure, but I thought if anything the letter made her more sympathetic not less.

He says his father leaked his plans to move to South Africa and Canada in order to scotch them (while not saying no to his face). Pretty cowardly.

A major point of contention was all the stories that came about about Megan in the British tabloids that were clearly sourced from either staff or low level royals and where highly critical of her or painted her in a bad light, but the palace refused to do anything about them. I really think this is the crux of it. If stories like that were in the press about Kate, the palace would organize to do something about it, either cracking down from within on whoever was leaking, or making a deal with the press, or something. It would not be allowed to just continue and Kate would not be told to just "buck up" about it. Kate is inner circle and her reputation is treated as synonymous with the reputation of the family, so this would not be allowed. Same with William, same with their kids.

With Megan, it's clear there was resentment/dislike towards her from the beginning, and not just from staff or low level family members. William clearly was not on board with her. So when the British press started ripping her to shreds, often with blind items from people who clearly worked in the palace or were part of the family (all the stuff about how Megan was rude to staff, about her diet or her habits during her pregnancy, the criticism of the H&M relationship, etc. -- it was relentless) and the family just did nothing, this was taken as a insult because Harry, especially, knew that this is not how it would have been handled were the subject his brother or sister-in-law.

And it doesn't really matter if you believe any of those stories about Megan to understand this. Kate could be an absolute nightmare of a person, but if the press was talking about her that way, the BRF would intervene and put a stop to it, one way or another. With Megan they left H&M to figure it out on their own, and of course there was little they could do. It's no wonder they became so paranoid and resentful.

Also, for Harry in particular, he saw the tabloid treatment of Megan and thought of his mom. And he of course is going to think about how the BRF handled Diana both once she and Charles were separated, and during and after the divorce, and even after her death. They didn't handle it great! At first Diana was "in the fold" but once their marriage was on the rocks she was out and the family didn't do a ton to protect her, and given that she died during a car chase with paparazzi, Harry is going to have some feelings about that. So when Megan started getting dragged through the mud and the family seemed indifferent, he took it very, very personally.

I think H&M are being a bit petty and small here, and also that airing all this dirty laundry is embarrassing on some level. BUT I also think all of this was preventable in a functional family where people understand these dynamics. If the family had just done more to protect Megan, they could have kept Harry on board. They didn't have to love her or think she was the ideal match or be best friends with her. They needed to offer her the protection of the BRF as an "insider". They refused. So H&M decided fine, we aren't insiders? Then we'll be outsiders and you'll see how you like that. Petty? Yes. Predictable? Also yes. Sometimes you suck it up with family and give them what they need even if you don't like them personally, in order to keep the family intact. Especially if, you know, your entire livelihood depends on the concept of you having a functional and intact family. The BRF was also petty and dumb here, and they actually have more to lose.

See bolded. How do we know this? Because H&M said?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's sad is that with all this nonsense talk about independent life, it surely must burn H&M that their connection to the BRF is STILL the most interesting thing about them.

Netflix doc about their dramas? Sells like hotcakes.

Leadership something doc they "produced"? Didn't even register.

That tells you what people want from H&M. Not their ideas!

It's only the most interesting thing to people on here discussing it, and who know little else about them. Lots of people love them for lots of reasons, including their philanthropic work. Meghan def has a very close cadre of friends who are very protective of her and love her very much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

Only one person can inherit. That's a fact of life. Life that has dealt Harry rather a good hand. Older brother is being raised to lead, younger to support him.

He could have had his family if he played by the rules.

This book virtually guarantees he'd never be welcome back.

Harry was given a huge platform to lead within the RF, Invictus Games and Military advocacy, Climate Change, Mental Health. He is simply envious of his brother. If he wants to be on equal footing with his brother he has to go earn it himself, and as we have seen he is incapable of even making a living for himself beyond trashing his family, let alone take on a leadership role in the world stage.

Nope. Wrong again. Harry said they would have been happy to stay in the fold and be working royals all their lives if Charles and Will would only stop feeding negative stories about them to the press and scapegoating Meghan. Not exactly a huge request.

Is there more evidence about this, other than the one letter to her father that was leaked? A violation of privacy, to be sure, but I thought if anything the letter made her more sympathetic not less.

He says his father leaked his plans to move to South Africa and Canada in order to scotch them (while not saying no to his face). Pretty cowardly.

A major point of contention was all the stories that came about about Megan in the British tabloids that were clearly sourced from either staff or low level royals and where highly critical of her or painted her in a bad light, but the palace refused to do anything about them. I really think this is the crux of it. If stories like that were in the press about Kate, the palace would organize to do something about it, either cracking down from within on whoever was leaking, or making a deal with the press, or something. It would not be allowed to just continue and Kate would not be told to just "buck up" about it. Kate is inner circle and her reputation is treated as synonymous with the reputation of the family, so this would not be allowed. Same with William, same with their kids.

With Megan, it's clear there was resentment/dislike towards her from the beginning, and not just from staff or low level family members. William clearly was not on board with her. So when the British press started ripping her to shreds, often with blind items from people who clearly worked in the palace or were part of the family (all the stuff about how Megan was rude to staff, about her diet or her habits during her pregnancy, the criticism of the H&M relationship, etc. -- it was relentless) and the family just did nothing, this was taken as a insult because Harry, especially, knew that this is not how it would have been handled were the subject his brother or sister-in-law.

And it doesn't really matter if you believe any of those stories about Megan to understand this. Kate could be an absolute nightmare of a person, but if the press was talking about her that way, the BRF would intervene and put a stop to it, one way or another. With Megan they left H&M to figure it out on their own, and of course there was little they could do. It's no wonder they became so paranoid and resentful.

Also, for Harry in particular, he saw the tabloid treatment of Megan and thought of his mom. And he of course is going to think about how the BRF handled Diana both once she and Charles were separated, and during and after the divorce, and even after her death. They didn't handle it great! At first Diana was "in the fold" but once their marriage was on the rocks she was out and the family didn't do a ton to protect her, and given that she died during a car chase with paparazzi, Harry is going to have some feelings about that. So when Megan started getting dragged through the mud and the family seemed indifferent, he took it very, very personally.

I think H&M are being a bit petty and small here, and also that airing all this dirty laundry is embarrassing on some level. BUT I also think all of this was preventable in a functional family where people understand these dynamics. If the family had just done more to protect Megan, they could have kept Harry on board. They didn't have to love her or think she was the ideal match or be best friends with her. They needed to offer her the protection of the BRF as an "insider". They refused. So H&M decided fine, we aren't insiders? Then we'll be outsiders and you'll see how you like that. Petty? Yes. Predictable? Also yes. Sometimes you suck it up with family and give them what they need even if you don't like them personally, in order to keep the family intact. Especially if, you know, your entire livelihood depends on the concept of you having a functional and intact family. The BRF was also petty and dumb here, and they actually have more to lose.

All very good points.

I’m
Harry wanted the BRF tomprotect his wife from the tabloids. That is basically it.

Why couldn’t Harry protect her from the tabloids? Maybe because the tabloids write what they want to write without regard to the truth? This idea that Megan got treated differently than Kate is true in so far as Megan got unprecedented treatment prior to her marriage- an invite to sandringham, a seat at the table of the royal foundation, even being interviewed with Kate and will and Harry as if she were one of them- all before her wedding! It was an incredible show of support for Megan. The palace issued a statement lambasting media portrayal of Megan - something that was never done for Kate when the hateful headlines were focused on Kate. Ultimately though none of this seems to matter as Harry and Megan have decided William is to blame for all the bad media. They seem to have genuinely hurt feelings and truly could benefit from GOOD therapy- not whatever they’ve been doing since it seems to not be working.
He comes across as profoundly damaged and angry. It’s truly sad.

It’s this. This thread is crazy, or at least is dotted with crazy, with posters claiming or agreeing with the sentiment that Meghan was uniquely targeted cruelly by the press. It’s a frigging lie. Camilla — tampon (illegal hack in all likelihood); the public sentiment was so ugly that she had food thrown at her in public. She was not ‘protected.’ Kate - nude photos published, using a long-range lens. She was called ‘c’ and ‘b-‘ and ‘whore’ - its on video - by paparazzi in the decade before marriage. She was stalked. This is public and actual information. Sophie - tricked and treated as an idiot on the take. Fergie - weight, adultery. Tons of coverage, little of it good. Diana.William and the affair rumors. And so on.

Harry is a mess but boy does he love pointing fingers, ignoring that he’s got 3 of his own pointing back at him. His treatment, whatever it is, isn’t working. He radiates unhappiness. He brought it on himself, and so does his wife. Isn’t the point of a relationship to try and help support people being their best?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sort of seems to me that the whole purpose of the spare is to draw negative attention away from the monarch.

Princess Margaret was treated like a drunk sl*t by the press (implied back then because it was the 50s and 60s, but for the age, it was pretty bad). Fergie was raked over the coals like crazy. Both of them sort of leaned into a little bit, doing provovative things and outwardly not caring about the press. And eventually the press lost interest and they were able to live out their middle age as wealthy women in comfortable homes with houses/dogs and nice jewelry.

I don't believe William affirmatively fed bad press---but he doesn't seem very bright or engaged, so I do believe that his press office may have done the traditional "wait -- look over there!" to draw attention away from him. And Andrew's press officer definitely would have done that.

Anyway, the whole thing just seems sad. It's a sad life, in a lot of ways, that ruins a lot of people (and always has). I think Harry was never tempermentally suited for it. I think Megan thought, coming from Hollywood, that she wouldn't be bothered by the publicity or that she could control the machine with her savy and charm. But it's like going from football to soccer or something -- different game, different players. And its seems to me that William, Harry and Megan are all sort of emotional hotheads that react first and then deal with the fallout later. The Quen lived her life, at least publicly, pretty much devoid of emotion. Kate seems like she is aware of that and ready to do the same. Megan and Harry just don't seem like they know how to live that way. But given who he is, I'm not sure there's a real option for him outside the confines of the BRF.

I wonder if Megan and Sophie interacted much, and if Sophie had any real advice for her. Sophie got a little lucky in that Fergie and Diana had already drawn so much fire.

Bingo. It's even more than the BRF not defending Harry and Meghan from the tabloids. It was them helping the tabloids paint Harry and then later Meghan in a negative light in order for William and Kate to shine. It was about them always knocking Harry down in order to make William look good. Who can blame him when Harry decided to stop playing that game? Who can blame him for not wanting his wife and children to be exposed to that sort of treatment?

The Firm continually helped the tabloids in painting Harry and Meghan in a negative light. His father and brother - more senior members of the firm with more power - could have done something to stop it but they didn't. will and Harry even made a promise between themselves when they were younger that they wouldn't operate that way but William broke that promise. He continued to allow The Firm to operate in that manner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

Only one person can inherit. That's a fact of life. Life that has dealt Harry rather a good hand. Older brother is being raised to lead, younger to support him.

He could have had his family if he played by the rules.

This book virtually guarantees he'd never be welcome back.

Harry was given a huge platform to lead within the RF, Invictus Games and Military advocacy, Climate Change, Mental Health. He is simply envious of his brother. If he wants to be on equal footing with his brother he has to go earn it himself, and as we have seen he is incapable of even making a living for himself beyond trashing his family, let alone take on a leadership role in the world stage.

Nope. Wrong again. Harry said they would have been happy to stay in the fold and be working royals all their lives if Charles and Will would only stop feeding negative stories about them to the press and scapegoating Meghan. Not exactly a huge request.

Is there more evidence about this, other than the one letter to her father that was leaked? A violation of privacy, to be sure, but I thought if anything the letter made her more sympathetic not less.

He says his father leaked his plans to move to South Africa and Canada in order to scotch them (while not saying no to his face). Pretty cowardly.

A major point of contention was all the stories that came about about Megan in the British tabloids that were clearly sourced from either staff or low level royals and where highly critical of her or painted her in a bad light, but the palace refused to do anything about them. I really think this is the crux of it. If stories like that were in the press about Kate, the palace would organize to do something about it, either cracking down from within on whoever was leaking, or making a deal with the press, or something. It would not be allowed to just continue and Kate would not be told to just "buck up" about it. Kate is inner circle and her reputation is treated as synonymous with the reputation of the family, so this would not be allowed. Same with William, same with their kids.

With Megan, it's clear there was resentment/dislike towards her from the beginning, and not just from staff or low level family members. William clearly was not on board with her. So when the British press started ripping her to shreds, often with blind items from people who clearly worked in the palace or were part of the family (all the stuff about how Megan was rude to staff, about her diet or her habits during her pregnancy, the criticism of the H&M relationship, etc. -- it was relentless) and the family just did nothing, this was taken as a insult because Harry, especially, knew that this is not how it would have been handled were the subject his brother or sister-in-law.

And it doesn't really matter if you believe any of those stories about Megan to understand this. Kate could be an absolute nightmare of a person, but if the press was talking about her that way, the BRF would intervene and put a stop to it, one way or another. With Megan they left H&M to figure it out on their own, and of course there was little they could do. It's no wonder they became so paranoid and resentful.

Also, for Harry in particular, he saw the tabloid treatment of Megan and thought of his mom. And he of course is going to think about how the BRF handled Diana both once she and Charles were separated, and during and after the divorce, and even after her death. They didn't handle it great! At first Diana was "in the fold" but once their marriage was on the rocks she was out and the family didn't do a ton to protect her, and given that she died during a car chase with paparazzi, Harry is going to have some feelings about that. So when Megan started getting dragged through the mud and the family seemed indifferent, he took it very, very personally.

I think H&M are being a bit petty and small here, and also that airing all this dirty laundry is embarrassing on some level. BUT I also think all of this was preventable in a functional family where people understand these dynamics. If the family had just done more to protect Megan, they could have kept Harry on board. They didn't have to love her or think she was the ideal match or be best friends with her. They needed to offer her the protection of the BRF as an "insider". They refused. So H&M decided fine, we aren't insiders? Then we'll be outsiders and you'll see how you like that. Petty? Yes. Predictable? Also yes. Sometimes you suck it up with family and give them what they need even if you don't like them personally, in order to keep the family intact. Especially if, you know, your entire livelihood depends on the concept of you having a functional and intact family. The BRF was also petty and dumb here, and they actually have more to lose.

See bolded. How do we know this? Because H&M said?

This has been covered. Harry said leaked information was told only to family members. THus, not only did they not do anything to stop it, the conclusion is they contributed to it.

And don't start with the "he said, they said." None of us was present. So that's what it is for all of this and all of the pages discussing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's sad is that with all this nonsense talk about independent life, it surely must burn H&M that their connection to the BRF is STILL the most interesting thing about them.

Netflix doc about their dramas? Sells like hotcakes.

Leadership something doc they "produced"? Didn't even register.

That tells you what people want from H&M. Not their ideas!

It's only the most interesting thing to people on here discussing it, and who know little else about them. Lots of people love them for lots of reasons, including their philanthropic work. Meghan def has a very close cadre of friends who are very protective of her and love her very much.

What else is there to know? Remove their connection to the BRF and do you think they would stand out in the sea of philanthropy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

Only one person can inherit. That's a fact of life. Life that has dealt Harry rather a good hand. Older brother is being raised to lead, younger to support him.

He could have had his family if he played by the rules.

This book virtually guarantees he'd never be welcome back.

Harry was given a huge platform to lead within the RF, Invictus Games and Military advocacy, Climate Change, Mental Health. He is simply envious of his brother. If he wants to be on equal footing with his brother he has to go earn it himself, and as we have seen he is incapable of even making a living for himself beyond trashing his family, let alone take on a leadership role in the world stage.

Nope. Wrong again. Harry said they would have been happy to stay in the fold and be working royals all their lives if Charles and Will would only stop feeding negative stories about them to the press and scapegoating Meghan. Not exactly a huge request.

Is there more evidence about this, other than the one letter to her father that was leaked? A violation of privacy, to be sure, but I thought if anything the letter made her more sympathetic not less.

He says his father leaked his plans to move to South Africa and Canada in order to scotch them (while not saying no to his face). Pretty cowardly.

A major point of contention was all the stories that came about about Megan in the British tabloids that were clearly sourced from either staff or low level royals and where highly critical of her or painted her in a bad light, but the palace refused to do anything about them. I really think this is the crux of it. If stories like that were in the press about Kate, the palace would organize to do something about it, either cracking down from within on whoever was leaking, or making a deal with the press, or something. It would not be allowed to just continue and Kate would not be told to just "buck up" about it. Kate is inner circle and her reputation is treated as synonymous with the reputation of the family, so this would not be allowed. Same with William, same with their kids.

With Megan, it's clear there was resentment/dislike towards her from the beginning, and not just from staff or low level family members. William clearly was not on board with her. So when the British press started ripping her to shreds, often with blind items from people who clearly worked in the palace or were part of the family (all the stuff about how Megan was rude to staff, about her diet or her habits during her pregnancy, the criticism of the H&M relationship, etc. -- it was relentless) and the family just did nothing, this was taken as a insult because Harry, especially, knew that this is not how it would have been handled were the subject his brother or sister-in-law.

And it doesn't really matter if you believe any of those stories about Megan to understand this. Kate could be an absolute nightmare of a person, but if the press was talking about her that way, the BRF would intervene and put a stop to it, one way or another. With Megan they left H&M to figure it out on their own, and of course there was little they could do. It's no wonder they became so paranoid and resentful.

Also, for Harry in particular, he saw the tabloid treatment of Megan and thought of his mom. And he of course is going to think about how the BRF handled Diana both once she and Charles were separated, and during and after the divorce, and even after her death. They didn't handle it great! At first Diana was "in the fold" but once their marriage was on the rocks she was out and the family didn't do a ton to protect her, and given that she died during a car chase with paparazzi, Harry is going to have some feelings about that. So when Megan started getting dragged through the mud and the family seemed indifferent, he took it very, very personally.

I think H&M are being a bit petty and small here, and also that airing all this dirty laundry is embarrassing on some level. BUT I also think all of this was preventable in a functional family where people understand these dynamics. If the family had just done more to protect Megan, they could have kept Harry on board. They didn't have to love her or think she was the ideal match or be best friends with her. They needed to offer her the protection of the BRF as an "insider". They refused. So H&M decided fine, we aren't insiders? Then we'll be outsiders and you'll see how you like that. Petty? Yes. Predictable? Also yes. Sometimes you suck it up with family and give them what they need even if you don't like them personally, in order to keep the family intact. Especially if, you know, your entire livelihood depends on the concept of you having a functional and intact family. The BRF was also petty and dumb here, and they actually have more to lose.

See bolded. How do we know this? Because H&M said?

This has been covered. Harry said leaked information was told only to family members. THus, not only did they not do anything to stop it, the conclusion is they contributed to it.

And don't start with the "he said, they said." None of us was present. So that's what it is for all of this and all of the pages discussing it.

But isn't it difficult to believe someone who is a proven liar? Meghan swore in court she never fed anyone information. And it was produced that she sent Scobie eight pages of notes of what she wanted covered in the book and how she wanted it covered. Ooops, I'm sorry your honor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's sad is that with all this nonsense talk about independent life, it surely must burn H&M that their connection to the BRF is STILL the most interesting thing about them.

Netflix doc about their dramas? Sells like hotcakes.

Leadership something doc they "produced"? Didn't even register.

That tells you what people want from H&M. Not their ideas!

It's only the most interesting thing to people on here discussing it, and who know little else about them. Lots of people love them for lots of reasons, including their philanthropic work. Meghan def has a very close cadre of friends who are very protective of her and love her very much.

What else is there to know? Remove their connection to the BRF and do you think they would stand out in the sea of philanthropy?

Well obviously. It's why they insist on retaining their titles despite supposedly despising the institution. It is all quite hypocritical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

Only one person can inherit. That's a fact of life. Life that has dealt Harry rather a good hand. Older brother is being raised to lead, younger to support him.

He could have had his family if he played by the rules.

This book virtually guarantees he'd never be welcome back.

Harry was given a huge platform to lead within the RF, Invictus Games and Military advocacy, Climate Change, Mental Health. He is simply envious of his brother. If he wants to be on equal footing with his brother he has to go earn it himself, and as we have seen he is incapable of even making a living for himself beyond trashing his family, let alone take on a leadership role in the world stage.

Nope. Wrong again. Harry said they would have been happy to stay in the fold and be working royals all their lives if Charles and Will would only stop feeding negative stories about them to the press and scapegoating Meghan. Not exactly a huge request.

Is there more evidence about this, other than the one letter to her father that was leaked? A violation of privacy, to be sure, but I thought if anything the letter made her more sympathetic not less.

He says his father leaked his plans to move to South Africa and Canada in order to scotch them (while not saying no to his face). Pretty cowardly.

A major point of contention was all the stories that came about about Megan in the British tabloids that were clearly sourced from either staff or low level royals and where highly critical of her or painted her in a bad light, but the palace refused to do anything about them. I really think this is the crux of it. If stories like that were in the press about Kate, the palace would organize to do something about it, either cracking down from within on whoever was leaking, or making a deal with the press, or something. It would not be allowed to just continue and Kate would not be told to just "buck up" about it. Kate is inner circle and her reputation is treated as synonymous with the reputation of the family, so this would not be allowed. Same with William, same with their kids.

With Megan, it's clear there was resentment/dislike towards her from the beginning, and not just from staff or low level family members. William clearly was not on board with her. So when the British press started ripping her to shreds, often with blind items from people who clearly worked in the palace or were part of the family (all the stuff about how Megan was rude to staff, about her diet or her habits during her pregnancy, the criticism of the H&M relationship, etc. -- it was relentless) and the family just did nothing, this was taken as a insult because Harry, especially, knew that this is not how it would have been handled were the subject his brother or sister-in-law.

And it doesn't really matter if you believe any of those stories about Megan to understand this. Kate could be an absolute nightmare of a person, but if the press was talking about her that way, the BRF would intervene and put a stop to it, one way or another. With Megan they left H&M to figure it out on their own, and of course there was little they could do. It's no wonder they became so paranoid and resentful.

Also, for Harry in particular, he saw the tabloid treatment of Megan and thought of his mom. And he of course is going to think about how the BRF handled Diana both once she and Charles were separated, and during and after the divorce, and even after her death. They didn't handle it great! At first Diana was "in the fold" but once their marriage was on the rocks she was out and the family didn't do a ton to protect her, and given that she died during a car chase with paparazzi, Harry is going to have some feelings about that. So when Megan started getting dragged through the mud and the family seemed indifferent, he took it very, very personally.

I think H&M are being a bit petty and small here, and also that airing all this dirty laundry is embarrassing on some level. BUT I also think all of this was preventable in a functional family where people understand these dynamics. If the family had just done more to protect Megan, they could have kept Harry on board. They didn't have to love her or think she was the ideal match or be best friends with her. They needed to offer her the protection of the BRF as an "insider". They refused. So H&M decided fine, we aren't insiders? Then we'll be outsiders and you'll see how you like that. Petty? Yes. Predictable? Also yes. Sometimes you suck it up with family and give them what they need even if you don't like them personally, in order to keep the family intact. Especially if, you know, your entire livelihood depends on the concept of you having a functional and intact family. The BRF was also petty and dumb here, and they actually have more to lose.

See bolded. How do we know this? Because H&M said?

This has been covered. Harry said leaked information was told only to family members. THus, not only did they not do anything to stop it, the conclusion is they contributed to it.

And don't start with the "he said, they said." None of us was present. So that's what it is for all of this and all of the pages discussing it.

Wait what? The bolded was in reference to the palace not protecting Meghan from bad press. That has nothing to do with leaks from family members.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

Only one person can inherit. That's a fact of life. Life that has dealt Harry rather a good hand. Older brother is being raised to lead, younger to support him.

He could have had his family if he played by the rules.

This book virtually guarantees he'd never be welcome back.

Harry was given a huge platform to lead within the RF, Invictus Games and Military advocacy, Climate Change, Mental Health. He is simply envious of his brother. If he wants to be on equal footing with his brother he has to go earn it himself, and as we have seen he is incapable of even making a living for himself beyond trashing his family, let alone take on a leadership role in the world stage.

Nope. Wrong again. Harry said they would have been happy to stay in the fold and be working royals all their lives if Charles and Will would only stop feeding negative stories about them to the press and scapegoating Meghan. Not exactly a huge request.

Is there more evidence about this, other than the one letter to her father that was leaked? A violation of privacy, to be sure, but I thought if anything the letter made her more sympathetic not less.

He says his father leaked his plans to move to South Africa and Canada in order to scotch them (while not saying no to his face). Pretty cowardly.

A major point of contention was all the stories that came about about Megan in the British tabloids that were clearly sourced from either staff or low level royals and where highly critical of her or painted her in a bad light, but the palace refused to do anything about them. I really think this is the crux of it. If stories like that were in the press about Kate, the palace would organize to do something about it, either cracking down from within on whoever was leaking, or making a deal with the press, or something. It would not be allowed to just continue and Kate would not be told to just "buck up" about it. Kate is inner circle and her reputation is treated as synonymous with the reputation of the family, so this would not be allowed. Same with William, same with their kids.

With Megan, it's clear there was resentment/dislike towards her from the beginning, and not just from staff or low level family members. William clearly was not on board with her. So when the British press started ripping her to shreds, often with blind items from people who clearly worked in the palace or were part of the family (all the stuff about how Megan was rude to staff, about her diet or her habits during her pregnancy, the criticism of the H&M relationship, etc. -- it was relentless) and the family just did nothing, this was taken as a insult because Harry, especially, knew that this is not how it would have been handled were the subject his brother or sister-in-law.

And it doesn't really matter if you believe any of those stories about Megan to understand this. Kate could be an absolute nightmare of a person, but if the press was talking about her that way, the BRF would intervene and put a stop to it, one way or another. With Megan they left H&M to figure it out on their own, and of course there was little they could do. It's no wonder they became so paranoid and resentful.

Also, for Harry in particular, he saw the tabloid treatment of Megan and thought of his mom. And he of course is going to think about how the BRF handled Diana both once she and Charles were separated, and during and after the divorce, and even after her death. They didn't handle it great! At first Diana was "in the fold" but once their marriage was on the rocks she was out and the family didn't do a ton to protect her, and given that she died during a car chase with paparazzi, Harry is going to have some feelings about that. So when Megan started getting dragged through the mud and the family seemed indifferent, he took it very, very personally.

I think H&M are being a bit petty and small here, and also that airing all this dirty laundry is embarrassing on some level. BUT I also think all of this was preventable in a functional family where people understand these dynamics. If the family had just done more to protect Megan, they could have kept Harry on board. They didn't have to love her or think she was the ideal match or be best friends with her. They needed to offer her the protection of the BRF as an "insider". They refused. So H&M decided fine, we aren't insiders? Then we'll be outsiders and you'll see how you like that. Petty? Yes. Predictable? Also yes. Sometimes you suck it up with family and give them what they need even if you don't like them personally, in order to keep the family intact. Especially if, you know, your entire livelihood depends on the concept of you having a functional and intact family. The BRF was also petty and dumb here, and they actually have more to lose.

All very good points.

I’m
Harry wanted the BRF tomprotect his wife from the tabloids. That is basically it.

Why couldn’t Harry protect her from the tabloids? Maybe because the tabloids write what they want to write without regard to the truth? This idea that Megan got treated differently than Kate is true in so far as Megan got unprecedented treatment prior to her marriage- an invite to sandringham, a seat at the table of the royal foundation, even being interviewed with Kate and will and Harry as if she were one of them- all before her wedding! It was an incredible show of support for Megan. The palace issued a statement lambasting media portrayal of Megan - something that was never done for Kate when the hateful headlines were focused on Kate. Ultimately though none of this seems to matter as Harry and Megan have decided William is to blame for all the bad media. They seem to have genuinely hurt feelings and truly could benefit from GOOD therapy- not whatever they’ve been doing since it seems to not be working.
He comes across as profoundly damaged and angry. It’s truly sad.

It’s this. This thread is crazy, or at least is dotted with crazy, with posters claiming or agreeing with the sentiment that Meghan was uniquely targeted cruelly by the press. It’s a frigging lie. Camilla — tampon (illegal hack in all likelihood); the public sentiment was so ugly that she had food thrown at her in public. She was not ‘protected.’ Kate - nude photos published, using a long-range lens. She was called ‘c’ and ‘b-‘ and ‘whore’ - its on video - by paparazzi in the decade before marriage. She was stalked. This is public and actual information. Sophie - tricked and treated as an idiot on the take. Fergie - weight, adultery. Tons of coverage, little of it good. Diana.William and the affair rumors. And so on.

Harry is a mess but boy does he love pointing fingers, ignoring that he’s got 3 of his own pointing back at him. His treatment, whatever it is, isn’t working. He radiates unhappiness. He brought it on himself, and so does his wife. Isn’t the point of a relationship to try and help support people being their best?

This is all true but the saddest part is his family will be forced to not deal with him ever. Who would take that risk that next time you argue you are being called all sorts of awful things. I just think Diana would be so upset with this argument. He loves his wife and he should protect her but the needless extras in stuff that doesn’t matter. He is clueless. God my brother didn’t like my husband for years. My dad chester. My mom is a mess. It is all there but I don’t broadcast that and we find a way to work through it. Harry has the world supporting him if he focuses on the things that matter. Unfair false stories-yes will support him. Petty fights with your brother. No you lose it on that. William is a nice person. Even Harry admits it. Why try to ruin your brother’s life. I could understand him being mad at his father and having long issues with that but not William. That is just not fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

Only one person can inherit. That's a fact of life. Life that has dealt Harry rather a good hand. Older brother is being raised to lead, younger to support him.

He could have had his family if he played by the rules.

This book virtually guarantees he'd never be welcome back.

Harry was given a huge platform to lead within the RF, Invictus Games and Military advocacy, Climate Change, Mental Health. He is simply envious of his brother. If he wants to be on equal footing with his brother he has to go earn it himself, and as we have seen he is incapable of even making a living for himself beyond trashing his family, let alone take on a leadership role in the world stage.

Nope. Wrong again. Harry said they would have been happy to stay in the fold and be working royals all their lives if Charles and Will would only stop feeding negative stories about them to the press and scapegoating Meghan. Not exactly a huge request.

Is there more evidence about this, other than the one letter to her father that was leaked? A violation of privacy, to be sure, but I thought if anything the letter made her more sympathetic not less.

He says his father leaked his plans to move to South Africa and Canada in order to scotch them (while not saying no to his face). Pretty cowardly.

A major point of contention was all the stories that came about about Megan in the British tabloids that were clearly sourced from either staff or low level royals and where highly critical of her or painted her in a bad light, but the palace refused to do anything about them. I really think this is the crux of it. If stories like that were in the press about Kate, the palace would organize to do something about it, either cracking down from within on whoever was leaking, or making a deal with the press, or something. It would not be allowed to just continue and Kate would not be told to just "buck up" about it. Kate is inner circle and her reputation is treated as synonymous with the reputation of the family, so this would not be allowed. Same with William, same with their kids.

With Megan, it's clear there was resentment/dislike towards her from the beginning, and not just from staff or low level family members. William clearly was not on board with her. So when the British press started ripping her to shreds, often with blind items from people who clearly worked in the palace or were part of the family (all the stuff about how Megan was rude to staff, about her diet or her habits during her pregnancy, the criticism of the H&M relationship, etc. -- it was relentless) and the family just did nothing, this was taken as a insult because Harry, especially, knew that this is not how it would have been handled were the subject his brother or sister-in-law.

And it doesn't really matter if you believe any of those stories about Megan to understand this. Kate could be an absolute nightmare of a person, but if the press was talking about her that way, the BRF would intervene and put a stop to it, one way or another. With Megan they left H&M to figure it out on their own, and of course there was little they could do. It's no wonder they became so paranoid and resentful.

Also, for Harry in particular, he saw the tabloid treatment of Megan and thought of his mom. And he of course is going to think about how the BRF handled Diana both once she and Charles were separated, and during and after the divorce, and even after her death. They didn't handle it great! At first Diana was "in the fold" but once their marriage was on the rocks she was out and the family didn't do a ton to protect her, and given that she died during a car chase with paparazzi, Harry is going to have some feelings about that. So when Megan started getting dragged through the mud and the family seemed indifferent, he took it very, very personally.

I think H&M are being a bit petty and small here, and also that airing all this dirty laundry is embarrassing on some level. BUT I also think all of this was preventable in a functional family where people understand these dynamics. If the family had just done more to protect Megan, they could have kept Harry on board. They didn't have to love her or think she was the ideal match or be best friends with her. They needed to offer her the protection of the BRF as an "insider". They refused. So H&M decided fine, we aren't insiders? Then we'll be outsiders and you'll see how you like that. Petty? Yes. Predictable? Also yes. Sometimes you suck it up with family and give them what they need even if you don't like them personally, in order to keep the family intact. Especially if, you know, your entire livelihood depends on the concept of you having a functional and intact family. The BRF was also petty and dumb here, and they actually have more to lose.

All very good points.

Harry wanted the BRF tomprotect his wife from the tabloids. That is basically it.

Yes, and concur they were shortsighted not to do it. The decision to profit from airing family dirt is separate though, at least in my mind.

The BRF doesn't really have the ability to do that though. Yes, the BRF quashed some pics of Kate's naked chest. But they weren't able to keep the years of Waity Katy and coverage of her bloopers out of the press. And Kensington or Buckingham (sorry, I don't remember which) did eventually ask the press to knock it off wrt Meghan. For whatever good it did.

If the BRF had the power over the tabloids Harry imagines they do, the tampon story would have never seen the light of day.

Remember all the hateful thrashing Charles got after Diana's death.

Remember all the dirt and harassment after Camilla. You think if Charles could stop it, he wouldn't have? THat's not how it works.

Okay, this is all true. But it also seems true that certain things were in fact fed by the family/the Firm.

[Anonymous]

Harry and Meghan played the game too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

Only one person can inherit. That's a fact of life. Life that has dealt Harry rather a good hand. Older brother is being raised to lead, younger to support him.

He could have had his family if he played by the rules.

This book virtually guarantees he'd never be welcome back.

Harry was given a huge platform to lead within the RF, Invictus Games and Military advocacy, Climate Change, Mental Health. He is simply envious of his brother. If he wants to be on equal footing with his brother he has to go earn it himself, and as we have seen he is incapable of even making a living for himself beyond trashing his family, let alone take on a leadership role in the world stage.

Nope. Wrong again. Harry said they would have been happy to stay in the fold and be working royals all their lives if Charles and Will would only stop feeding negative stories about them to the press and scapegoating Meghan. Not exactly a huge request.

Is there more evidence about this, other than the one letter to her father that was leaked? A violation of privacy, to be sure, but I thought if anything the letter made her more sympathetic not less.

He says his father leaked his plans to move to South Africa and Canada in order to scotch them (while not saying no to his face). Pretty cowardly.

A major point of contention was all the stories that came about about Megan in the British tabloids that were clearly sourced from either staff or low level royals and where highly critical of her or painted her in a bad light, but the palace refused to do anything about them. I really think this is the crux of it. If stories like that were in the press about Kate, the palace would organize to do something about it, either cracking down from within on whoever was leaking, or making a deal with the press, or something. It would not be allowed to just continue and Kate would not be told to just "buck up" about it. Kate is inner circle and her reputation is treated as synonymous with the reputation of the family, so this would not be allowed. Same with William, same with their kids.

With Megan, it's clear there was resentment/dislike towards her from the beginning, and not just from staff or low level family members. William clearly was not on board with her. So when the British press started ripping her to shreds, often with blind items from people who clearly worked in the palace or were part of the family (all the stuff about how Megan was rude to staff, about her diet or her habits during her pregnancy, the criticism of the H&M relationship, etc. -- it was relentless) and the family just did nothing, this was taken as a insult because Harry, especially, knew that this is not how it would have been handled were the subject his brother or sister-in-law.

And it doesn't really matter if you believe any of those stories about Megan to understand this. Kate could be an absolute nightmare of a person, but if the press was talking about her that way, the BRF would intervene and put a stop to it, one way or another. With Megan they left H&M to figure it out on their own, and of course there was little they could do. It's no wonder they became so paranoid and resentful.

Also, for Harry in particular, he saw the tabloid treatment of Megan and thought of his mom. And he of course is going to think about how the BRF handled Diana both once she and Charles were separated, and during and after the divorce, and even after her death. They didn't handle it great! At first Diana was "in the fold" but once their marriage was on the rocks she was out and the family didn't do a ton to protect her, and given that she died during a car chase with paparazzi, Harry is going to have some feelings about that. So when Megan started getting dragged through the mud and the family seemed indifferent, he took it very, very personally.

I think H&M are being a bit petty and small here, and also that airing all this dirty laundry is embarrassing on some level. BUT I also think all of this was preventable in a functional family where people understand these dynamics. If the family had just done more to protect Megan, they could have kept Harry on board. They didn't have to love her or think she was the ideal match or be best friends with her. They needed to offer her the protection of the BRF as an "insider". They refused. So H&M decided fine, we aren't insiders? Then we'll be outsiders and you'll see how you like that. Petty? Yes. Predictable? Also yes. Sometimes you suck it up with family and give them what they need even if you don't like them personally, in order to keep the family intact. Especially if, you know, your entire livelihood depends on the concept of you having a functional and intact family. The BRF was also petty and dumb here, and they actually have more to lose.

See bolded. How do we know this? Because H&M said?

This has been covered. Harry said leaked information was told only to family members. THus, not only did they not do anything to stop it, the conclusion is they contributed to it.

And don't start with the "he said, they said." None of us was present. So that's what it is for all of this and all of the pages discussing it.

But isn't it difficult to believe someone who is a proven liar? Meghan swore in court she never fed anyone information. And it was produced that she sent Scobie eight pages of notes of what she wanted covered in the book and how she wanted it covered. Ooops, I'm sorry your honor.

This. Harry and Meghan LIE and its been verified in court — this cannot be claimed for Harry’s family. This is ridiculous. My memory slipped at emailing repeatedly the notes i wrote for Omid’s book about me!!! GMAB.

[Anonymous]

I watched the Netflix documentary. I have also helped people leave abusive husbands and families. Tyler Perry nailed it. They were in a dysfunctional, abusive family situation. Basically the BRF uses the lower ranked royals as tabloid fodder to keep unpleasant truths and rumors from being printed about the upper royals. It is a f***ed up hierarchy. It is absolutely gross. H&M were popular in the Commonwealth. The higher ups egos couldn’t handle it. Remember when JFK went to Paris? He basically said I’m the man who accompanied Jackie Kennedy to Paris. That was smart. The BRF was stupid as was their press offices. When someone breaks free of a dysfunctional and abusive situation and get to an area where the air is free and not controlled, they start realizing just how messed up and dysfunctional their prior living situation was. They start to talk about it. All of this was predictable.

It’s like Harry came from a family where the Dad drank, screamed and yelled at mom and the kids, maybe hit some of them and they all enabled it by dressing up, making excuses, and making sure no one really knew the truth. Harry’s the kid who noticed this wasn’t happening at his friends house and decided to stop enabling the dysfunction and stop taking the abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harry and Meghan played the game too.

Yes, but doesn't this memo make clear they did so in the spirit of trying to get the truth out while being instructed to maintain royal decorum by not directly engaging?