Toddler death on a cruise ship. So tragic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do people think, in general, that parents are more lax on vacation? I am wondering if this played a part.

So many tragedy whores on this thread. Hasn't this topic been beaten to death?

[Anonymous]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7237859/Devastated-grandfather-toddler-died-falling-arms-cruise-ship-arrives-Chicago.html

The grandfather has reportedly declined to make any statement to authorities (on the advice of counsel).
Parents weren’t around when the incident happened.
There are no witnesses.
There is camera footage but the parents were (understandably) too distraught to watch it. Does not look like authorities/lawyers have had access to it yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all. He picked that window because it was open. Think about it - they were 11 stories up. Would her view really be any different if she were standing on the floor? No, it would not. Also - think about where her body had to be for her to flip/fall out of the window.

Or he wanted her to look out one of the clear panes thinking they were different colors.

What is it about this situation that makes you twist logic like a pretzel in your mind? He chose that exact location because the window was open. Full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the articles said (and someone I know who goes on a lot of cruises agreed) that the newer ships don't have windows that can be opened like that. Maybe the man hadn't been on an older ship before and wasn't very observant so he really thought there was glass there, in the way that sometimes you can be so convinced of something because you expect it to be that way that you don't even check first to confirm it.

I do think the cruise line had a responsibility to post signs up warning people of the danger those windows could pose to children. It may seem common sense to most of us but there are a lot of people with poor judgment, and accidents happen all the time on cruise ships. Stores, public transit, and other public places often have signs warning people of seemingly obvious risks to children - cruise ships should be no different.

Somebody who is so unobservant that a window is wide open is going to notice a sign warning them to not place small children in open windows? I'm sorry. The man was profoundly and irrevocably careless with his granddaughter and now that sweet baby is dead.

Nothing about this scenario makes a bit of sense. You can not place signs warning people not to do things that everyone in their right mind knows not to do.

What would be the harm in posting up signs that say keep children away from the windows? It's a simple, cheap precaution that completely absolves the cruise line. Some people will still do stupid things but maybe it will be a deterrent for some people. What if the ship lists unexpectedly while you're standing next to the window? Maybe the floor is wet, being close to the pool and all, and a person slips and tumbles out? Maybe a child climbs up a deck chair to the window? There are plenty of reasons to put warning signs up.

The harm is that people stop reading warning signs when there are too many of them and they are everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Reminds me of this tragic accident:

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/baby-dies-after-falling-over-t-o-airport-balcony-1.457101


So sad for all involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all. He picked that window because it was open. Think about it - they were 11 stories up. Would her view really be any different if she were standing on the floor? No, it would not. Also - think about where her body had to be for her to flip/fall out of the window.

Or he wanted her to look out one of the clear panes thinking they were different colors.

What is it about this situation that makes you twist logic like a pretzel in your mind? He chose that exact location because the window was open. Full stop.

I’m picturing a wall of windows which are tinted only when closed. If you look at the wall and they’re all closed, the windows look bluish. If you look at them when every other window is open, they look like the open ones have clear glass. Maybe. Possibly. To an older fuddy duddy who barely knows his ass from a whole in the ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all. He picked that window because it was open. Think about it - they were 11 stories up. Would her view really be any different if she were standing on the floor? No, it would not. Also - think about where her body had to be for her to flip/fall out of the window.

Or he wanted her to look out one of the clear panes thinking they were different colors.

What is it about this situation that makes you twist logic like a pretzel in your mind? He chose that exact location because the window was open. Full stop.

I’m picturing a wall of windows which are tinted only when closed. If you look at the wall and they’re all closed, the windows look bluish. If you look at them when every other window is open, they look like the open ones have clear glass. Maybe. Possibly. To an older fuddy duddy who barely knows his ass from a whole in the ground.

Except that the attorney is claiming that there was only one open window. Does it make sense that every window but one would be tinted blue? Think about it. (BTW: Attorney is also claiming that the windows are all clear.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all. He picked that window because it was open. Think about it - they were 11 stories up. Would her view really be any different if she were standing on the floor? No, it would not. Also - think about where her body had to be for her to flip/fall out of the window.

Or he wanted her to look out one of the clear panes thinking they were different colors.

What is it about this situation that makes you twist logic like a pretzel in your mind? He chose that exact location because the window was open. Full stop.

I’m picturing a wall of windows which are tinted only when closed. If you look at the wall and they’re all closed, the windows look bluish. If you look at them when every other window is open, they look like the open ones have clear glass. Maybe. Possibly. To an older fuddy duddy who barely knows his ass from a whole in the ground.

Except that the attorney is claiming that there was only one open window. Does it make sense that every window but one would be tinted blue? Think about it. (BTW: Attorney is also claiming that the windows are all clear.)

I was on that ship last week. The window openings are essentially in a repeating pattern of closed vs open windows at eye level. It's obvious where the openings are. That's deck 11. On deck 12, there are no windows---just a railing around the deck (same on deck 4).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7237859/Devastated-grandfather-toddler-died-falling-arms-cruise-ship-arrives-Chicago.html

The grandfather has reportedly declined to make any statement to authorities (on the advice of counsel).
Parents weren’t around when the incident happened.
There are no witnesses.
There is camera footage but the parents were (understandably) too distraught to watch it. Does not look like authorities/lawyers have had access to it yet.

If his conscience was clear, he would have given a statement to police. He didn't b/c the smarmy lawyer told him not to speak. They want to see the video first so he can concoct a story that is plausible that puts the fault on the cruise ship and still fits with the video. If it really was the negligence of the cruise line (ie. the child walked over to an open lower window), he would be telling his story over and over and over again out of outrage and righteousness. But, he's not talking b/c he knows he screwed up. He put the kid up there and either lost his grip or she lunged forward. I hate to say it, but I'm super glad there is video. People are dishonest but the tape doesn't lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the articles said (and someone I know who goes on a lot of cruises agreed) that the newer ships don't have windows that can be opened like that. Maybe the man hadn't been on an older ship before and wasn't very observant so he really thought there was glass there, in the way that sometimes you can be so convinced of something because you expect it to be that way that you don't even check first to confirm it.

I do think the cruise line had a responsibility to post signs up warning people of the danger those windows could pose to children. It may seem common sense to most of us but there are a lot of people with poor judgment, and accidents happen all the time on cruise ships. Stores, public transit, and other public places often have signs warning people of seemingly obvious risks to children - cruise ships should be no different.

Somebody who is so unobservant that a window is wide open is going to notice a sign warning them to not place small children in open windows? I'm sorry. The man was profoundly and irrevocably careless with his granddaughter and now that sweet baby is dead.

Nothing about this scenario makes a bit of sense. You can not place signs warning people not to do things that everyone in their right mind knows not to do.

What would be the harm in posting up signs that say keep children away from the windows? It's a simple, cheap precaution that completely absolves the cruise line. Some people will still do stupid things but maybe it will be a deterrent for some people. What if the ship lists unexpectedly while you're standing next to the window? Maybe the floor is wet, being close to the pool and all, and a person slips and tumbles out? Maybe a child climbs up a deck chair to the window? There are plenty of reasons to put warning signs up.

The harm is that people stop reading warning signs when there are too many of them and they are everywhere.

The harm is that you'll plaster every available surface with idiotic warning signs that are utterly unnecessary for even a low IQ adult which will create visual blight and a generation of imbeciles......like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all. He picked that window because it was open. Think about it - they were 11 stories up. Would her view really be any different if she were standing on the floor? No, it would not. Also - think about where her body had to be for her to flip/fall out of the window.

Or he wanted her to look out one of the clear panes thinking they were different colors.

Which would make him mentally handicapped.

No one thinks 'oh there's one window they painted a different color!'

He knew it was open.

If some of them were open and some closed, and when closed they are “very tinted” as some posts on here have said, he could have looked at the wall of windows and thought they were all closed just some were tinted and others not.

You don't have to consider what "some posts on here have said". You can watch the videos yourself. I haven't been on the ship itself but I watched a YT video tour of that exact location on that exact ship, and anyone with a single brain cell can see that the windows are open. And it's also plainly obvious that there's an opening there when you approach it, just from the fact that you can clearly see the outline of the opened pane of glass and due to the big window handle that's pulled to the side.

https://youtu.be/F-332844fZ4?t=191

I feel really bad for them, but it is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of this tragic accident:

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/baby-dies-after-falling-over-t-o-airport-balcony-1.457101


So sad for all involved.

Horrible, but clearly an accident.

[Anonymous]

I had pretty bad anxiety when my kids were little partially because they have special needs. These are all the scenarios that I envisioned could happen when too close to an area they could fall down or I could accidentally drop them because they would squirm like crazy. My heart goes out to these families but in retrospect I am feeling better that I trusted my gut that I couldn’t trust them around windows etc. you just never know. I know that theoretically there’s no reason to think the worst. But something in between is probably a good instinct. Toddlers that age have no awareness of danger.

[Anonymous]

This is a tragedy. The grandpa made a horrible mistake. But I do not see how him saying he thought the window was closed even helps him. Who teaches a kid to bang on a window. It could break. Plexiglass around an ice rink is very different from a window. It is designed to take a hit. I am guessing the windows on the cruise ships are tough. But it still is a bad idea. It is horrible that his mistake had such a tragic ending. But at some point people need to be responsible for thier own actions. I agree with all the posters that said the family is doing this so they have someone besides Grandpa to blame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had pretty bad anxiety when my kids were little partially because they have special needs. These are all the scenarios that I envisioned could happen when too close to an area they could fall down or I could accidentally drop them because they would squirm like crazy. My heart goes out to these families but in retrospect I am feeling better that I trusted my gut that I couldn’t trust them around windows etc. you just never know. I know that theoretically there’s no reason to think the worst. But something in between is probably a good instinct. Toddlers that age have no awareness of danger.

I totally agree. It used to make me feel almost panicky when my kids were in an area with a steep drop nearby even if there was a railing holding them back from going over the edge. I made them stay close to me - well away from the edge. For an adult to actually put a baby in an open window like that....I just can't imagine what he was thinking.