The Rush to Judge Ilhan Omar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some argue, it seems, that there is othing that could be interpreted in her comments as hinting toward antisemitism when viewed from the perspective of a reasonable listener. If some Jews think there is a suggestion of antisemitism there, then that ends the debate for me. But that’s just me. To be fair, I think the Democrats made an unforced error. Omar is, I think, much more in step with today’s Democratic Party on this issue then the party’s ancient leaders are. Hoyer? Give me a break. Is he woke? So I just don’t get the rush to implicitly ondemn her through some really weird resolution.

Oh, anyone can always interpret anything anyway they want. Obviously some Jews are interpreting Omar's remarks in such a way. What I have been trying to say is that Omar said this:

“So for me I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is ok for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country.”

The Washington Post reported this:

"Omar suggested last week that Israel’s supporters have an 'allegiance to a foreign country'.

Notice the difference? Omar is obviously discussing the pro-Israel lobby and how it pushes people to support Israel. The example that provoked her is Marco Rubio's anti-BDS bill that allows state and local governments to punish Americans who don't support Israel's interests. For instance, in Texas a school teacher was fired because she refused to sign a pledge not to support BDS.

Omar said nothing about the loyalty of American Jews. To the contrary, earlier in her talk she discussed how she understands the passion her Jewish constituents have for Israel and compared it to her children's passion for Somalia.

If there is any gaslighting going on, it is by the Washington Post which is mischaracterizing Omar's words.

I that if she had used the word “support” instead of “allegiance” in the above quotation, that any potential ambiguities would not have occurred.

Alas. If only she had used better words, she wouldn't have been accused of using wrong words. Deep thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with her, Israel has an outsize influence in American politics, it is very much of a dual allegiance situation, and money is an important part of the support. Israel didn't boycott South Africa during its apartheid years, it has dirty hands now, treats Ethiopian Jews like the South Africans treated their blacks.. Would you ever see a bill in the US Congress punishing US citizens for boycotting any other country? France or Britain?

why don’t antisemites like you who lie about israel boycotting Turkey or do you think slaughtering Kurds is woke? So what if theyoccupy Cyprus . They aren’t Jews so I don’t care

what does your post even mean? I am upset about the treatment of black Ethiopian jews i. Israel so I am antisemitic? Lol
Also punctuation is your friend

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The big question is can anyone criticize or question Israel, it policies or its relations with the US and not be called anti-Semitic? It always seems if there is anything negative said about Israel there is always someone saying it’s anti-semitic.

I don't think it's a question at all. I think it's become quite clear that anything whatsoever that is in any way whatsoever critical of Israel's policies, politics, or relations between the US and Israel will immediately be jumped on as anti-Semitic regardless of whether or not it actually is anti-semitic or not. Bernie Sanders, who himself is a Jew, pointed out that a counterproductive conflation of legitimate policy criticisms into "anti-semitism" has happened.

Opposing the State of Israel is not anti-Semitic. It's anti-Nazi. Opposing the government of the USA is not an opposition to the people of the USA. Positions on the policies of states, and the very questions about the existence of states, are political questions. All political questions are valid for public debate.

[Anonymous]

Rahm Emmanuel comments in dual loyal accusations https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/ilhan-omars-dual-loyalty-charge-was-anti-semitic/584314/

[Anonymous]

She seems to be wanting to burn all bridges. Her latest comments can't help her make her Democratic colleagues fond of her speaking out.

Rookie Democratic Rep. Ilhan Omar, fresh off igniting an intra-party uproar with comments widely viewed as anti-Semitic, took a swipe at former President Barack Obama, saying in an explosive interview the 44th president's message of "hope and change" was a "mirage" and blasting his administration's drone and border detention policies.

Omar, D-Minn., took aim at the president's famed slogan, while further criticizing the Democratic Party for “perpetuating the status quo,” in the interview with Politico.

“Recalling the ‘caging of kids’ at the U.S.-Mexico border and the ‘droning of countries around the world’ on Obama’s watch," Omar charged that Obama "operated within the same fundamentally broken framework as his Republican successor,” the piece reads.

Omar is then quoted as saying: “We can’t be only upset with Trump… His policies are bad, but many of the people who came before him also had really bad policies. They just were more polished than he was.

“And that’s not what we should be looking for anymore. We don’t want anybody to get away with murder because they are polished. We want to recognize the actual policies that are behind the pretty face and the smile.”

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-ilhan-omar-slams-barack-obamas-message-of-hope-and-change-as-a-mirage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And meanwhile, why did 23 Republicans pull out of a bill to condemn anti-semitism when islamophobia and white supremacy were added to it? We only care about anti-semitic hate but anti-muslim hate is perfectly fine?

Because it was intended to be a resolution in response to Omar's statements. It ended up being something very different. Did you listen to the Jewish Democrats who made statements? They were obviously upset about it, but, being loyal Dems, they voted for it anyway. Listen particularly to Engel and Wasserman-Schultz.

Why shouldn't it have ended up what it was? Why do we only care about anti-semitic hate speech and not other forms of hate speech? It was the right thing to do, to have it encompass ALL forms of hate speech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But the Islamophobia here and in Europe is way louder, creepier and hurtful to people’s everyday lives than the anti-Semitism.

According to the FBI 58% of all religious hate crimes in the US were anti -Jewish. Only 19% were anti-Muslim

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/incidents-and-offenses

That corresponds roughly with the number of Jews in the US vs the number of Muslims in the US. in that context of the numbers, the average Muslim faces at least as much threat of hate as the average Jew, as opposed to it being worse for Jews as your post would seem to want to suggest.

FBI crime stats are notoriously garbage, they only reflect crimes reported to the police. The DOJ Victimization survey always shows higher incidence of crime, particularly against vulnerable minorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And meanwhile, why did 23 Republicans pull out of a bill to condemn anti-semitism when islamophobia and white supremacy were added to it? We only care about anti-semitic hate but anti-muslim hate is perfectly fine?

Because it was intended to be a resolution in response to Omar's statements. It ended up being something very different. Did you listen to the Jewish Democrats who made statements? They were obviously upset about it, but, being loyal Dems, they voted for it anyway. Listen particularly to Engel and Wasserman-Schultz.

Why shouldn't it have ended up what it was? Why do we only care about anti-semitic hate speech and not other forms of hate speech? It was the right thing to do, to have it encompass ALL forms of hate speech.

Interesting--that, almost as the resolution against hate speech was being passed--that Omar retweeted a hateful tweet against Meghan McCain and her dad. Don't think the lady congressman "gets it."

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Rahm Emmanuel comments in dual loyal accusations https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/ilhan-omars-dual-loyalty-charge-was-anti-semitic/584314/

Of course, accusing Jews of having dual loyalty is anti-Semitic and Omar didn't do that. So, it's not clear why Emmanuel thinks she did. However, Emmanuel was a civilian volunteer assisting the Israeli Army. So, perhaps questioning his loyalties is a bit more legitimate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She seems to be wanting to burn all bridges. Her latest comments can't help her make her Democratic colleagues fond of her speaking out.

Rookie Democratic Rep. Ilhan Omar, fresh off igniting an intra-party uproar with comments widely viewed as anti-Semitic, took a swipe at former President Barack Obama, saying in an explosive interview the 44th president's message of "hope and change" was a "mirage" and blasting his administration's drone and border detention policies.

Omar, D-Minn., took aim at the president's famed slogan, while further criticizing the Democratic Party for “perpetuating the status quo,” in the interview with Politico.

“Recalling the ‘caging of kids’ at the U.S.-Mexico border and the ‘droning of countries around the world’ on Obama’s watch," Omar charged that Obama "operated within the same fundamentally broken framework as his Republican successor,” the piece reads.

Omar is then quoted as saying: “We can’t be only upset with Trump… His policies are bad, but many of the people who came before him also had really bad policies. They just were more polished than he was.

“And that’s not what we should be looking for anymore. We don’t want anybody to get away with murder because they are polished. We want to recognize the actual policies that are behind the pretty face and the smile.”

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-ilhan-omar-slams-barack-obamas-message-of-hope-and-change-as-a-mirage

The vast majority of Americans do not care about Israel and can not find it on a map. There is lobbying and money but not many people who base their vote on Israel. Remember when Bibi was campaigning against Obama? Bibi did everything he could and it had little to no impact on the election. Israel gets a few people really excite and the rest do not care. This is why it is a prefect issue to grind on.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And meanwhile, why did 23 Republicans pull out of a bill to condemn anti-semitism when islamophobia and white supremacy were added to it? We only care about anti-semitic hate but anti-muslim hate is perfectly fine?

Because it was intended to be a resolution in response to Omar's statements. It ended up being something very different. Did you listen to the Jewish Democrats who made statements? They were obviously upset about it, but, being loyal Dems, they voted for it anyway. Listen particularly to Engel and Wasserman-Schultz.

Why shouldn't it have ended up what it was? Why do we only care about anti-semitic hate speech and not other forms of hate speech? It was the right thing to do, to have it encompass ALL forms of hate speech.

Interesting--that, almost as the resolution against hate speech was being passed--that Omar retweeted a hateful tweet against Meghan McCain and her dad. Don't think the lady congressman "gets it."

Well Meghan is "scared" of Ilhan so I hope the tweet didn't frighten her too much. McCain is not Jewish. Are you accusing Omar of being anti-Christian now? Or is it your position that she is not allowed to respond to critics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She seems to be wanting to burn all bridges. Her latest comments can't help her make her Democratic colleagues fond of her speaking out.

Rookie Democratic Rep. Ilhan Omar, fresh off igniting an intra-party uproar with comments widely viewed as anti-Semitic, took a swipe at former President Barack Obama, saying in an explosive interview the 44th president's message of "hope and change" was a "mirage" and blasting his administration's drone and border detention policies.

Omar, D-Minn., took aim at the president's famed slogan, while further criticizing the Democratic Party for “perpetuating the status quo,” in the interview with Politico.

“Recalling the ‘caging of kids’ at the U.S.-Mexico border and the ‘droning of countries around the world’ on Obama’s watch," Omar charged that Obama "operated within the same fundamentally broken framework as his Republican successor,” the piece reads.

Omar is then quoted as saying: “We can’t be only upset with Trump… His policies are bad, but many of the people who came before him also had really bad policies. They just were more polished than he was.

“And that’s not what we should be looking for anymore. We don’t want anybody to get away with murder because they are polished. We want to recognize the actual policies that are behind the pretty face and the smile.”

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-ilhan-omar-slams-barack-obamas-message-of-hope-and-change-as-a-mirage

The vast majority of Americans do not care about Israel and can not find it on a map. There is lobbying and money but not many people who base their vote on Israel. Remember when Bibi was campaigning against Obama? Bibi did everything he could and it had little to no impact on the election. Israel gets a few people really excite and the rest do not care. This is why it is a prefect issue to grind on.

Did you even read Omar's comments about Obama? It had nothing to do with Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The big question is can anyone criticize or question Israel, it policies or its relations with the US and not be called anti-Semitic? It always seems if there is anything negative said about Israel there is always someone saying it’s anti-semitic.

I don't think it's a question at all. I think it's become quite clear that anything whatsoever that is in any way whatsoever critical of Israel's policies, politics, or relations between the US and Israel will immediately be jumped on as anti-Semitic regardless of whether or not it actually is anti-semitic or not. Bernie Sanders, who himself is a Jew, pointed out that a counterproductive conflation of legitimate policy criticisms into "anti-semitism" has happened.

Opposing the State of Israel is not anti-Semitic. It's anti-Nazi. Opposing the government of the USA is not an opposition to the people of the USA. Positions on the policies of states, and the very questions about the existence of states, are political questions. All political questions are valid for public debate.

I'm sorry, are you equating the State of Israel to Nazi Germany?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The big question is can anyone criticize or question Israel, it policies or its relations with the US and not be called anti-Semitic? It always seems if there is anything negative said about Israel there is always someone saying it’s anti-semitic.

I don't think it's a question at all. I think it's become quite clear that anything whatsoever that is in any way whatsoever critical of Israel's policies, politics, or relations between the US and Israel will immediately be jumped on as anti-Semitic regardless of whether or not it actually is anti-semitic or not. Bernie Sanders, who himself is a Jew, pointed out that a counterproductive conflation of legitimate policy criticisms into "anti-semitism" has happened.

Opposing the State of Israel is not anti-Semitic. It's anti-Nazi. Opposing the government of the USA is not an opposition to the people of the USA. Positions on the policies of states, and the very questions about the existence of states, are political questions. All political questions are valid for public debate.

I'm sorry, are you equating the State of Israel to Nazi Germany?

I believe PP is. Yep. That’s what I got too

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rahm Emmanuel comments in dual loyal accusations https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/ilhan-omars-dual-loyalty-charge-was-anti-semitic/584314/

Of course, accusing Jews of having dual loyalty is anti-Semitic and Omar didn't do that. So, it's not clear why Emmanuel thinks she did. However, Emmanuel was a civilian volunteer assisting the Israeli Army. So, perhaps questioning his loyalties is a bit more legitimate.

Many Jews have done volunteer work in Israel. The IDF is the young people of Israel, and many people support social services, etc for them. Rahm has spent much of his life in public service, including as COS to a man likely to live in history as a one of our best presidents.