The Rush to Judge Ilhan Omar

[Anonymous]

Lee Zeldin captures what many of us think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with her, Israel has an outsize influence in American politics, it is very much of a dual allegiance situation, and money is an important part of the support. Israel didn't boycott South Africa during its apartheid years, it has dirty hands now, treats Ethiopian Jews like the South Africans treated their blacks.. Would you ever see a bill in the US Congress punishing US citizens for boycotting any other country? France or Britain?

why don’t antisemites like you who lie about israel boycotting Turkey or do you think slaughtering Kurds is woke? So what if theyoccupy Cyprus . They aren’t Jews so I don’t care

[Anonymous]

For a few years now the right has been trying to make Israel a partisan issue. As soon as that happens, the US relationship with Israel will change. Just look at NATO. Before Trump the orthodoxy was both parties supported NATO. Now...many republicans question why we are in it.

Trump was echoing the sentiments of the 25 percent of U.S. adults who, according to a YouGov poll conducted this week, hold an unfavorable view of NATO. That includes 15 percent who see the alliance “somewhat” unfavorably and 10 percent who see it “very” unfavorably. By contrast, 24 percent of Americans give NATO somewhat favorable ratings, and 20 percent give it very favorable ratings, for a total favorability score of 44 percent.

Like so much else these days, NATO has become a partisan issue. Democrats told YouGov that they view NATO favorably by an overwhelming 55-point margin (64 percent to 9 percent), but among Republicans, unfavorable opinions of NATO win out by an 8-point margin: 45 percent to 37 percent. Among Trump voters, 54 percent view NATO unfavorably, while just 33 percent view it favorably.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-trump-fueling-republicans-concerns-about-nato-or-echoing-them/

I think we are beginning to see the same shift in support for Israel in the Democratic Party. The fastest growing demographic groups just do not have any connection to Israel and those groups lean democratic vs republican. I do not see these democrats as antisemtic or anti Israel. They just have different priorities vs Israel. You could see that in the response to this “crisis”. The leadership(older members) wanted to response one way, the new guard said no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lee Zeldin captures what many of us think.

One of the greatest speeches ever. One for the books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lee Zeldin captures what many of us think.

One of the greatest speeches ever. One for the books.

I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The big question is can anyone criticize or question Israel, it policies or its relations with the US and not be called anti-Semitic? It always seems if there is anything negative said about Israel there is always someone saying it’s anti-semitic.

I don't think it's a question at all. I think it's become quite clear that anything whatsoever that is in any way whatsoever critical of Israel's policies, politics, or relations between the US and Israel will immediately be jumped on as anti-Semitic regardless of whether or not it actually is anti-semitic or not. Bernie Sanders, who himself is a Jew, pointed out that a counterproductive conflation of legitimate policy criticisms into "anti-semitism" has happened.

[Anonymous]

OP, there is no "rush to judgment". The fool, Omar, has put her foot in her mouth so many times that she doesn't get a pass just because she's a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But the Islamophobia here and in Europe is way louder, creepier and hurtful to people’s everyday lives than the anti-Semitism.

According to the FBI 58% of all religious hate crimes in the US were anti -Jewish. Only 19% were anti-Muslim

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/incidents-and-offenses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But the Islamophobia here and in Europe is way louder, creepier and hurtful to people’s everyday lives than the anti-Semitism.

According to the FBI 58% of all religious hate crimes in the US were anti -Jewish. Only 19% were anti-Muslim

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/incidents-and-offenses

An inconvenient truth for some, maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For a few years now the right has been trying to make Israel a partisan issue. As soon as that happens, the US relationship with Israel will change. Just look at NATO. Before Trump the orthodoxy was both parties supported NATO. Now...many republicans question why we are in it.

Trump was echoing the sentiments of the 25 percent of U.S. adults who, according to a YouGov poll conducted this week, hold an unfavorable view of NATO. That includes 15 percent who see the alliance “somewhat” unfavorably and 10 percent who see it “very” unfavorably. By contrast, 24 percent of Americans give NATO somewhat favorable ratings, and 20 percent give it very favorable ratings, for a total favorability score of 44 percent.

Like so much else these days, NATO has become a partisan issue. Democrats told YouGov that they view NATO favorably by an overwhelming 55-point margin (64 percent to 9 percent), but among Republicans, unfavorable opinions of NATO win out by an 8-point margin: 45 percent to 37 percent. Among Trump voters, 54 percent view NATO unfavorably, while just 33 percent view it favorably.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-trump-fueling-republicans-concerns-about-nato-or-echoing-them/

I think we are beginning to see the same shift in support for Israel in the Democratic Party. The fastest growing demographic groups just do not have any connection to Israel and those groups lean democratic vs republican. I do not see these democrats as antisemtic or anti Israel. They just have different priorities vs Israel. You could see that in the response to this “crisis”. The leadership(older members) wanted to response one way, the new guard said no.

Republicans don't have much of any actual connection to Israel either other than via the wacky Evangelicals who need the Rapture to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The big question is can anyone criticize or question Israel, it policies or its relations with the US and not be called anti-Semitic? It always seems if there is anything negative said about Israel there is always someone saying it’s anti-semitic.

I don't think it's a question at all. I think it's become quite clear that anything whatsoever that is in any way whatsoever critical of Israel's policies, politics, or relations between the US and Israel will immediately be jumped on as anti-Semitic regardless of whether or not it actually is anti-semitic or not. Bernie Sanders, who himself is a Jew, pointed out that a counterproductive conflation of legitimate policy criticisms into "anti-semitism" has happened.

But what happened here wasn't disagreeing about policies. It was fundamentally questioning whether Jews are loyal to the United States. Those are very different things and makes it unnecessary to debate whether, at times, criticism of Israel can be so one-sided and disproportionate to reactions - or lack there if - to other situations to raise legitimate questions as to whether such criticism can veer into anti-semitism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But the Islamophobia here and in Europe is way louder, creepier and hurtful to people’s everyday lives than the anti-Semitism.

Here maybe, though there are still more antisemitic incidents (and thankfully no attack on muslims as big as the Pittsburgh shoot, IIUC)

But Europe? People are told when they go to Paris to make sure not to wear a kippah - wear a baseball cap instead - even if you are just going to the tourist places in the city center (its worse in the banlieus)

And it worse than that in Marseilles, in Malmo in Sweden, and several other places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But the Islamophobia here and in Europe is way louder, creepier and hurtful to people’s everyday lives than the anti-Semitism.

According to the FBI 58% of all religious hate crimes in the US were anti -Jewish. Only 19% were anti-Muslim

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/incidents-and-offenses

An inconvenient truth for some, maybe.

Yes, anti-semitic hate is real and does exist. But valid criticisms of Israel's policies don't and can't be allowed to legitimately count as anti-semitic hate. That's the core of the debate here.

And meanwhile, why did 23 Republicans pull out of a bill to condemn anti-semitism when islamophobia and white supremacy were added to it? We only care about anti-semitic hate but anti-muslim hate is perfectly fine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But the Islamophobia here and in Europe is way louder, creepier and hurtful to people’s everyday lives than the anti-Semitism.

According to the FBI 58% of all religious hate crimes in the US were anti -Jewish. Only 19% were anti-Muslim

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/incidents-and-offenses

That corresponds roughly with the number of Jews in the US vs the number of Muslims in the US. in that context of the numbers, the average Muslim faces at least as much threat of hate as the average Jew, as opposed to it being worse for Jews as your post would seem to want to suggest.

[Anonymous]

And meanwhile, why did 23 Republicans pull out of a bill to condemn anti-semitism when islamophobia and white supremacy were added to it? We only care about anti-semitic hate but anti-muslim hate is perfectly fine?

Because it was intended to be a resolution in response to Omar's statements. It ended up being something very different. Did you listen to the Jewish Democrats who made statements? They were obviously upset about it, but, being loyal Dems, they voted for it anyway. Listen particularly to Engel and Wasserman-Schultz.