Parents of small children - how are you managing RTO?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

+1. I can’t even with this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

Sorry, but the problem is still rooted in your decisions. You made your bed so now lay in it or get up and make some changes.

NP. No, hon. It's not their decision. It's the TRUMP admin decisions affect others. That is solely where responsibility rests.

No, “hon.” It is the fault of the PP with rigid, unrealistic expectations and refusal to adapt.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Others are managing RTO without a village just like any other parents who work in person and don’t have a village. Having kids always has been a sacrifice for most people. You just had a reprieve for a few years.

A lot of child care centers decreased their hours and enrollment during the pandemic for safety reasons and haven’t been able to staff up to increase back to pre pandemic enrollment.

Parenthood has always been difficult, but I’ll put money on this delightful remark having come from someone ignorant to the fact that there is a dwindling supply of child care.

It’s not a dwindling supply but increased cost. I’m actually sympathetic to the RTO side because it’s apparent even in my own work (private) that full time WFH does not work, but something needs to be done about the cost of childcare. I pay exactly double an hour for a nanny that I did pre-pandemic. Double! And I’m not DCUM wealthy. The people saying “suck it up” paid $16 for a nanny just 5 years and have no idea what parents are up against. And if you complain about what nannies cost (more than many nurses make) people accuse you of abusing your employees. Parents can’t win.

But that’s the problem. You don’t need a “nanny.” Private in home childcare is a premium service. If you can’t afford it, you don’t get it. You use group childcare that you can afford. Yes, it will be less convenient for you. That’s OK. Yes, it may mean your kid doesn’t do extracurriculars every day after school that require transportation. That’s OK too. Locate your adult pants, pull them up and get on with it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So much drama about family values and this country provides zero supports to working parents, as a society we are cruel, individualistic and mean. No wonder we have mentally fu*ked up kids blowing up other kids in schools. This talk of the greatest, wealthiest nation is just bs, wealth and benefits only for the billionaire class, the rest can spend their lives in servitude to the rich.

I don’t see where this is coming from. I grew up a “latch key” kid (remember when that was a thing) and my kids were in daycare while DH and I were in the office full time.

Is the implication that daycare is causing school shootings?

Maybe having parents around all the time is causing the anxiety and depression spikes in kids.

Please go into the general parenting forum and express that kids should be removed from their parents for more hours of the day in order to prevent anxiety and depression and school shootings.

I’m not suggesting that should happen. I’m pointing out correlation does not equal causation. RTO will not increase school shootings. Before and after care will probably have no impact on anxiety/depression in kids.

I’m suggesting you should see the reaction from parents to suggesting that. Particularly if you identify yourself as a mother.

No one loves these years when you feel squeezed beyond belief- financially, physically, emotionally. I am a mother who has been through this stage and it was hard. We paid $40k a year for daycare. I’m sure it’s more now. And then we paid for aftercare. You and others will go through this stage and it will be hard. There is no way around it but through it.

THERE IS A WAY AROUND IT. Telework an workplace flex.

IT ISN’T HAPPENING NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU YELL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

Why is that crazy when it started 10+ years ago and continued thru the 1st Trump term even before Covid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ And I’m not saying only Feds do this. I know people in remote jobs in private industry too

The funny thing is that outside of the early stage of the pandemic, I only know one person IRL that kept a baby home while working (a contractor) and even she admitted it was only possible because her mom/MIL helped out for 2-3 days per week (and once they were 18mo the kid went to daycare). I definitely know quite a few parents who dropped or scaled back on before/aftercare, some of whom are scrambling becasue some days are full. But are there really that many parents still WFH and caring for babies/toddlers fulltime? How is that even functional....

I know two couples who are both in remote IC-type roles and swap the baby back and forth in between meetings. I’m guessing they do some work at night to compensate. Not sure what their long term plans are

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

Why is that crazy when it started 10+ years ago and continued thru the 1st Trump term even before Covid?

Blame everyone who mows their lawn, and picks up their kids and goes to Costco when they should be working. I can’t get this generation of 20’s/young 30’s to understand that a deadline is actually a deadline. This is why we can’t have nice things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ And I’m not saying only Feds do this. I know people in remote jobs in private industry too

The funny thing is that outside of the early stage of the pandemic, I only know one person IRL that kept a baby home while working (a contractor) and even she admitted it was only possible because her mom/MIL helped out for 2-3 days per week (and once they were 18mo the kid went to daycare). I definitely know quite a few parents who dropped or scaled back on before/aftercare, some of whom are scrambling becasue some days are full. But are there really that many parents still WFH and caring for babies/toddlers fulltime? How is that even functional....

I know two couples who are both in remote IC-type roles and swap the baby back and forth in between meetings. I’m guessing they do some work at night to compensate. Not sure what their long term plans are

Um, there are very few fully remote IC roles, OP. Unless whatever you think IC means is different than what I think it means.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm tired of people like PPs on here who say we were "spoiled" these last few years. Bullsh*t. We were finally coming closer to having better work situations for families with two working parents. It's not spoiled. It's more practical and better for the whole family, including kids, who most people claim to care so much about.

This is a step backward. Telling people who are upset to put on their big girl panties or similar stupid BS is just ahole behavior. EVERYONE would love flexibility if offered. Of course people with kids don't want to give it up, ESPECIALLY when there is no REAL reason they are doing this in terms of quality of work. This is all to hurt the workers so they'll quit. It's backassward and cruel. Don't be a dick about it.

Of course it's a step backward, I think we can all agree on this, however, you have to deal with your current reality and we're telling you how we did it in the past.

There have been some helpful and matter of fact posts in this vein. Yours is very reasonable. There have also been some snide and unnecessary ones. Lots of different posters here.

Why not focus on the helpful posts and ignore everyone else, then? That seems like it would be easier on you. I'm the poster who raised my hand earlier. Curious about if you think my post was helpful or snarky?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ And I’m not saying only Feds do this. I know people in remote jobs in private industry too

The funny thing is that outside of the early stage of the pandemic, I only know one person IRL that kept a baby home while working (a contractor) and even she admitted it was only possible because her mom/MIL helped out for 2-3 days per week (and once they were 18mo the kid went to daycare). I definitely know quite a few parents who dropped or scaled back on before/aftercare, some of whom are scrambling becasue some days are full. But are there really that many parents still WFH and caring for babies/toddlers fulltime? How is that even functional....

I don't know anyone who has done it. It isn't functional.

I completely agree. I don't know a single work-from-home parent who can manage that. Everyone I know was traumatized after COVID, trying to balance work with having their children at home. It's simply not sustainable. However, this reality doesn't align with the narrative of those who oppose remote work. They want to believe that everyone working from home is somehow gaming the system, which reinforces their argument that no one is productive outside of the office. It's amusing because just because someone is physically present in the office doesn’t guarantee productivity either. We had one woman who spent most of her time online shopping and another guy who could talk about sports for hours. There are always a few bad apples, no matter where you are.

Yeah you can stop the schtick. Aside from every normal person recognizing inefficiencies literally everywhere, there’s been lots of studies on this 5 years in and people are not as productive working from home. Save your gaslighting, you’re just wrong. Perhaps there’s another solution for working parents and productive work environments, but full time WFH isn’t it and demanding it is when the whole world can see with their own eyes is not helping.

Where’s the data?

Some of the newer studies are included below. Fully remote work in particular shows reductions in productivity. There are many additional current articles (not included) that discuss the merits and challenges of telework in light of the studies. The previous administration also obviously had acknowledged challenges with the situation, and attempted to convey their request for more in-office time with urgency.

Working From Home Leads to Decreased Productivity, Research Suggests
"The results of the study, pointing to a 10%-20% decrease in productivity for fully remote workers, have brought forth complex implications for employers, employees, and policymakers."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/benjaminlaker/2023/08/02/working-from-home-leads-to-decreased-productivity-research-suggests/
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kqbngD8pemqxAkZmWCOQ32Yk6PXK9eVA/view
https://www.npr.org/2023/08/04/1192246138/the-evidence-on-remote-work-is-changing

Americans are becoming less productive, and that's a risk to the economy
“Productivity is down 4.1% on an annualized basis, the biggest decline since the government started keeping track of the number back in 1948. Since then, U.S. productivity had been on a steady upward slope. Until now.”
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/07/1126967875/quiet-quitting-productivity-workers-ennui-working-jobs

American worker productivity is declining at the fastest rate in 75 years—and it could see CEOs go to war against WFH
“The U.S. has now had five consecutive quarters of year-over-year declines in productivity, according to research from EY-Parthenon, using data from the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics. That has never happened before, in data going back to 1948.”
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-worker-productivity-declining-fastest-181131658.html

Work from Home and Productivity: Evidence from Personnel and Analytics Data on Information Technology Professionals
"We study employee productivity before and during the working-from-home period of the COVID-19 pandemic, using personnel and analytics data from over 10,000 skilled professionals at an Indian technology company. Hours worked increased, output declined slightly, and productivity fell 8%–19%. We then analyze determinants of productivity changes. An important source is higher communication costs. Time spent on coordination activities and meetings increased, while uninterrupted work hours shrank considerably. Employees networked with fewer individuals and business units inside and outside the firm and had fewer one-to-one meetings with supervisors. The findings suggest key issues for firms in implementing remote work. .... WFH productivity was lower for employees who had children at home, so this is a partial explanation. However, those without children at home also suffered a large decline in productivity, with similar patterns for reduced focus time, increased time spent in large meetings, and decreased one-to-one communications and meetings.”
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/721803

White House asks Cabinet agencies to ‘aggressively execute’ return to in-person work
"The email, sent to Cabinet secretaries by White House chief of staff Jeff Zients, cites the end of the Covid-19 public health emergency and the benefit of increased productivity from in-person work. 'This is a priority of the President – and I am looking to each of you to aggressively execute this shift in September and October,' the email reads."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/politics/white-house-cabinet-in-person-work/index.html

Seems like you had a productive day in the office!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

+1. I can’t even with this.

Why not. It’s part of the benefit package that they advertise when you get hired: healthcare, dental benefits, paid leave depending on years of service and flexible work options. We make less but have better benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ And I’m not saying only Feds do this. I know people in remote jobs in private industry too

The funny thing is that outside of the early stage of the pandemic, I only know one person IRL that kept a baby home while working (a contractor) and even she admitted it was only possible because her mom/MIL helped out for 2-3 days per week (and once they were 18mo the kid went to daycare). I definitely know quite a few parents who dropped or scaled back on before/aftercare, some of whom are scrambling becasue some days are full. But are there really that many parents still WFH and caring for babies/toddlers fulltime? How is that even functional....

I know two couples who are both in remote IC-type roles and swap the baby back and forth in between meetings. I’m guessing they do some work at night to compensate. Not sure what their long term plans are

Um, there are very few fully remote IC roles, OP. Unless whatever you think IC means is different than what I think it means.

Not OP - but you are thinking intelligence community - they are thinking individual contributors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my citizenship recently and grew up abroad. I find this entire thread fascinating. America is such an individualistic country, I don’t think I’ve seen this anywhere else. There seems to be a notion that because having kids is an individual choice, they also are that individual’s burden and they are expected to carry that burden alone with absolutely no help from society. Yet having kids is a societal good and an aging population is dangerous for society especially now with ppl living longer. Who is supposed to look after you when you are older though? I’m not talking about individual arrangements. I’m talking about the nurses, the doctors, medical staff etc. Who builds the roads, houses, and infrastructure? Provides goods and services? Pays into social security? U know all the things needed for society to function? These are other people’s children. So there needs to be a way to figure out how to make work compatible with having families. Sure many of you can hire care but who looks after the family of the person you hire? Do they have affordable childcare? If we want to remain functional as a society we need to stop thinking in such an individualistic manner. Back home, the village literally raises the child. What’s America’s solution?

Fewer humans would be better for world society overall. We want fewer roads, houses, infrastructure.

+1. Went to several national parks recently -- they were so crowded it was unbearable. There are just too many people, and no need to add even more.

So your solution is for humanity to just die out altogether? That's rather extreme.

Obviously the rest of the world (without extreme views or individualism values) just can’t help themselves immigrating, I say we are fine.

As their economies get better they will eventually stop. And either way immigration is being curtailed in the US by the same administration who doesn’t believe in flexibility in the workplace (and supported by ppl here who think kids are a net negative for society).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm tired of people like PPs on here who say we were "spoiled" these last few years. Bullsh*t. We were finally coming closer to having better work situations for families with two working parents. It's not spoiled. It's more practical and better for the whole family, including kids, who most people claim to care so much about.

This is a step backward. Telling people who are upset to put on their big girl panties or similar stupid BS is just ahole behavior. EVERYONE would love flexibility if offered. Of course people with kids don't want to give it up, ESPECIALLY when there is no REAL reason they are doing this in terms of quality of work. This is all to hurt the workers so they'll quit. It's backassward and cruel. Don't be a dick about it.

I am not your boss who made the RTO call, just trying to help by coming up with some childcare options. If you are so angry just go find another job, and stop seeing random internet posters as your enemy. In reality, no one cares.

If you don’t care then why post. The OP was asking ppl who are returning to the office how they are coping with young kids. Now if you are already in the office or don’t have kids or whatever then this doesn’t have much to do with you. OP didn’t ask for your sympathy. She asked others who are in a similar position how they are coping.