Parents of small children - how are you managing RTO?

[Anonymous]

What a very strange thread this is.

It’s almost as if the people who suggested that you can have it all…just not AT THE SAME TIME were correct.

You can both work and have zero kids, or have one parent work and one stay home to care for the kids, or both of you can work and your kids are cared for by someone else.
But it just isn’t possible to earn a living working for someone else while also performing the role of caregiver for your child at the same time. One of those has to give.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Others are managing RTO without a village just like any other parents who work in person and don’t have a village. Having kids always has been a sacrifice for most people. You just had a reprieve for a few years.

A lot of child care centers decreased their hours and enrollment during the pandemic for safety reasons and haven’t been able to staff up to increase back to pre pandemic enrollment.

Parenthood has always been difficult, but I’ll put money on this delightful remark having come from someone ignorant to the fact that there is a dwindling supply of child care.

It’s not a dwindling supply but increased cost. I’m actually sympathetic to the RTO side because it’s apparent even in my own work (private) that full time WFH does not work, but something needs to be done about the cost of childcare. I pay exactly double an hour for a nanny that I did pre-pandemic. Double! And I’m not DCUM wealthy. The people saying “suck it up” paid $16 for a nanny just 5 years and have no idea what parents are up against. And if you complain about what nannies cost (more than many nurses make) people accuse you of abusing your employees. Parents can’t win.

But that’s the problem. You don’t need a “nanny.” Private in home childcare is a premium service. If you can’t afford it, you don’t get it. You use group childcare that you can afford. Yes, it will be less convenient for you. That’s OK. Yes, it may mean your kid doesn’t do extracurriculars every day after school that require transportation. That’s OK too. Locate your adult pants, pull them up and get on with it.

Spoken like someone who is either childless or has 1 kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Others are managing RTO without a village just like any other parents who work in person and don’t have a village. Having kids always has been a sacrifice for most people. You just had a reprieve for a few years.

A lot of child care centers decreased their hours and enrollment during the pandemic for safety reasons and haven’t been able to staff up to increase back to pre pandemic enrollment.

Parenthood has always been difficult, but I’ll put money on this delightful remark having come from someone ignorant to the fact that there is a dwindling supply of child care.

It’s not a dwindling supply but increased cost. I’m actually sympathetic to the RTO side because it’s apparent even in my own work (private) that full time WFH does not work, but something needs to be done about the cost of childcare. I pay exactly double an hour for a nanny that I did pre-pandemic. Double! And I’m not DCUM wealthy. The people saying “suck it up” paid $16 for a nanny just 5 years and have no idea what parents are up against. And if you complain about what nannies cost (more than many nurses make) people accuse you of abusing your employees. Parents can’t win.

But that’s the problem. You don’t need a “nanny.” Private in home childcare is a premium service. If you can’t afford it, you don’t get it. You use group childcare that you can afford. Yes, it will be less convenient for you. That’s OK. Yes, it may mean your kid doesn’t do extracurriculars every day after school that require transportation. That’s OK too. Locate your adult pants, pull them up and get on with it.

Spoken like someone who is either childless or has 1 kid.

We all make mistakes. Live within your means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Others are managing RTO without a village just like any other parents who work in person and don’t have a village. Having kids always has been a sacrifice for most people. You just had a reprieve for a few years.

A lot of child care centers decreased their hours and enrollment during the pandemic for safety reasons and haven’t been able to staff up to increase back to pre pandemic enrollment.

Parenthood has always been difficult, but I’ll put money on this delightful remark having come from someone ignorant to the fact that there is a dwindling supply of child care.

It’s not a dwindling supply but increased cost. I’m actually sympathetic to the RTO side because it’s apparent even in my own work (private) that full time WFH does not work, but something needs to be done about the cost of childcare. I pay exactly double an hour for a nanny that I did pre-pandemic. Double! And I’m not DCUM wealthy. The people saying “suck it up” paid $16 for a nanny just 5 years and have no idea what parents are up against. And if you complain about what nannies cost (more than many nurses make) people accuse you of abusing your employees. Parents can’t win.

But that’s the problem. You don’t need a “nanny.” Private in home childcare is a premium service. If you can’t afford it, you don’t get it. You use group childcare that you can afford. Yes, it will be less convenient for you. That’s OK. Yes, it may mean your kid doesn’t do extracurriculars every day after school that require transportation. That’s OK too. Locate your adult pants, pull them up and get on with it.

Spoken like someone who is either childless or has 1 kid.

The number of kids is your choice. You need to figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much drama about family values and this country provides zero supports to working parents, as a society we are cruel, individualistic and mean. No wonder we have mentally fu*ked up kids blowing up other kids in schools. This talk of the greatest, wealthiest nation is just bs, wealth and benefits only for the billionaire class, the rest can spend their lives in servitude to the rich.

I don’t see where this is coming from. I grew up a “latch key” kid (remember when that was a thing) and my kids were in daycare while DH and I were in the office full time.

Is the implication that daycare is causing school shootings?

Maybe having parents around all the time is causing the anxiety and depression spikes in kids.

Please go into the general parenting forum and express that kids should be removed from their parents for more hours of the day in order to prevent anxiety and depression and school shootings.

I’m not suggesting that should happen. I’m pointing out correlation does not equal causation. RTO will not increase school shootings. Before and after care will probably have no impact on anxiety/depression in kids.

I’m suggesting you should see the reaction from parents to suggesting that. Particularly if you identify yourself as a mother.

No one loves these years when you feel squeezed beyond belief- financially, physically, emotionally. I am a mother who has been through this stage and it was hard. We paid $40k a year for daycare. I’m sure it’s more now. And then we paid for aftercare. You and others will go through this stage and it will be hard. There is no way around it but through it.

I don't understand this mentality at all. Especially when you can see the data that costs exceed raises. So we are squeezed x times financially which adds x more stress. Commutes are longer. Fact. Cost increased. Fact.
It's not apples to apples no matter how much you pat our heads and tell us how hard it is. It's like a grandparent tellinf their grandkid they paid for college working during the summers and just stop getting Starbucks.

This x100. If you haven’t found and paid for childcare post-COVID, your views and opinions are ancient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Others are managing RTO without a village just like any other parents who work in person and don’t have a village. Having kids always has been a sacrifice for most people. You just had a reprieve for a few years.

A lot of child care centers decreased their hours and enrollment during the pandemic for safety reasons and haven’t been able to staff up to increase back to pre pandemic enrollment.

Parenthood has always been difficult, but I’ll put money on this delightful remark having come from someone ignorant to the fact that there is a dwindling supply of child care.

It’s not a dwindling supply but increased cost. I’m actually sympathetic to the RTO side because it’s apparent even in my own work (private) that full time WFH does not work, but something needs to be done about the cost of childcare. I pay exactly double an hour for a nanny that I did pre-pandemic. Double! And I’m not DCUM wealthy. The people saying “suck it up” paid $16 for a nanny just 5 years and have no idea what parents are up against. And if you complain about what nannies cost (more than many nurses make) people accuse you of abusing your employees. Parents can’t win.

But that’s the problem. You don’t need a “nanny.” Private in home childcare is a premium service. If you can’t afford it, you don’t get it. You use group childcare that you can afford. Yes, it will be less convenient for you. That’s OK. Yes, it may mean your kid doesn’t do extracurriculars every day after school that require transportation. That’s OK too. Locate your adult pants, pull them up and get on with it.

Spoken like someone who is either childless or has 1 kid.

The number of kids is your choice. You need to figure it out.

Lol the childless HOA president with 12 cats over here is here to lecture us on life choices 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ And I’m not saying only Feds do this. I know people in remote jobs in private industry too

The funny thing is that outside of the early stage of the pandemic, I only know one person IRL that kept a baby home while working (a contractor) and even she admitted it was only possible because her mom/MIL helped out for 2-3 days per week (and once they were 18mo the kid went to daycare). I definitely know quite a few parents who dropped or scaled back on before/aftercare, some of whom are scrambling becasue some days are full. But are there really that many parents still WFH and caring for babies/toddlers fulltime? How is that even functional....

I know two couples who are both in remote IC-type roles and swap the baby back and forth in between meetings. I’m guessing they do some work at night to compensate. Not sure what their long term plans are

Um, there are very few fully remote IC roles, OP. Unless whatever you think IC means is different than what I think it means.

Not OP - but you are thinking intelligence community - they are thinking individual contributors.

Yes exactly, I meant the latter. Thank you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Others are managing RTO without a village just like any other parents who work in person and don’t have a village. Having kids always has been a sacrifice for most people. You just had a reprieve for a few years.

A lot of child care centers decreased their hours and enrollment during the pandemic for safety reasons and haven’t been able to staff up to increase back to pre pandemic enrollment.

Parenthood has always been difficult, but I’ll put money on this delightful remark having come from someone ignorant to the fact that there is a dwindling supply of child care.

It’s not a dwindling supply but increased cost. I’m actually sympathetic to the RTO side because it’s apparent even in my own work (private) that full time WFH does not work, but something needs to be done about the cost of childcare. I pay exactly double an hour for a nanny that I did pre-pandemic. Double! And I’m not DCUM wealthy. The people saying “suck it up” paid $16 for a nanny just 5 years and have no idea what parents are up against. And if you complain about what nannies cost (more than many nurses make) people accuse you of abusing your employees. Parents can’t win.

But that’s the problem. You don’t need a “nanny.” Private in home childcare is a premium service. If you can’t afford it, you don’t get it. You use group childcare that you can afford. Yes, it will be less convenient for you. That’s OK. Yes, it may mean your kid doesn’t do extracurriculars every day after school that require transportation. That’s OK too. Locate your adult pants, pull them up and get on with it.

Spoken like someone who is either childless or has 1 kid.

The number of kids is your choice. You need to figure it out.

I’m the PP who posted about America being individualistic to the extreme. This attitude is not normal. So wonder so many ppl in the US are miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

+1. I can’t even with this.

Why not. It’s part of the benefit package that they advertise when you get hired: healthcare, dental benefits, paid leave depending on years of service and flexible work options. We make less but have better benefits.

It’s not “part of the benefit package” that your job and responsibilities and situation will remain exactly the same your entire career. Have you ever even had another job besides your Fed job? It doesn’t sound like it. Jobs, job situations, job duties, bosses, coworkers, and other aspects of your job are not promised and not forever. If you think you can find a different job that promises you full telework and full job security forever, you should definitely take it.

[Anonymous]

When DC were young we staggers our schedules. I worked 6:30-2:30. DH would drop off DC at 2:30 on his way to work. Thankfully, my office was fine with kids being in my office if I needed to finish something up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much drama about family values and this country provides zero supports to working parents, as a society we are cruel, individualistic and mean. No wonder we have mentally fu*ked up kids blowing up other kids in schools. This talk of the greatest, wealthiest nation is just bs, wealth and benefits only for the billionaire class, the rest can spend their lives in servitude to the rich.

I don’t see where this is coming from. I grew up a “latch key” kid (remember when that was a thing) and my kids were in daycare while DH and I were in the office full time.

Is the implication that daycare is causing school shootings?

Maybe having parents around all the time is causing the anxiety and depression spikes in kids.

Please go into the general parenting forum and express that kids should be removed from their parents for more hours of the day in order to prevent anxiety and depression and school shootings.

I’m not suggesting that should happen. I’m pointing out correlation does not equal causation. RTO will not increase school shootings. Before and after care will probably have no impact on anxiety/depression in kids.

I’m suggesting you should see the reaction from parents to suggesting that. Particularly if you identify yourself as a mother.

No one loves these years when you feel squeezed beyond belief- financially, physically, emotionally. I am a mother who has been through this stage and it was hard. We paid $40k a year for daycare. I’m sure it’s more now. And then we paid for aftercare. You and others will go through this stage and it will be hard. There is no way around it but through it.

I don't understand this mentality at all. Especially when you can see the data that costs exceed raises. So we are squeezed x times financially which adds x more stress. Commutes are longer. Fact. Cost increased. Fact.
It's not apples to apples no matter how much you pat our heads and tell us how hard it is. It's like a grandparent tellinf their grandkid they paid for college working during the summers and just stop getting Starbucks.

This x100. If you haven’t found and paid for childcare post-COVID, your views and opinions are ancient.

Oh poor you! No other generation ever had it as bad as you! Boo hoo hoo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a very strange thread this is.

It’s almost as if the people who suggested that you can have it all…just not AT THE SAME TIME were correct.

You can both work and have zero kids, or have one parent work and one stay home to care for the kids, or both of you can work and your kids are cared for by someone else.
But it just isn’t possible to earn a living working for someone else while also performing the role of caregiver for your child at the same time. One of those has to give.

Not in this day and age, men don’t want to date or marry someone who wants to take care of their kids, they prefer someone who can work, make a lot of money and still magically take care of 3 children. If I made the call to prioritize one or the other, the DH would make sure my next 6 month is miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Others are managing RTO without a village just like any other parents who work in person and don’t have a village. Having kids always has been a sacrifice for most people. You just had a reprieve for a few years.

A lot of child care centers decreased their hours and enrollment during the pandemic for safety reasons and haven’t been able to staff up to increase back to pre pandemic enrollment.

Parenthood has always been difficult, but I’ll put money on this delightful remark having come from someone ignorant to the fact that there is a dwindling supply of child care.

It’s not a dwindling supply but increased cost. I’m actually sympathetic to the RTO side because it’s apparent even in my own work (private) that full time WFH does not work, but something needs to be done about the cost of childcare. I pay exactly double an hour for a nanny that I did pre-pandemic. Double! And I’m not DCUM wealthy. The people saying “suck it up” paid $16 for a nanny just 5 years and have no idea what parents are up against. And if you complain about what nannies cost (more than many nurses make) people accuse you of abusing your employees. Parents can’t win.

But that’s the problem. You don’t need a “nanny.” Private in home childcare is a premium service. If you can’t afford it, you don’t get it. You use group childcare that you can afford. Yes, it will be less convenient for you. That’s OK. Yes, it may mean your kid doesn’t do extracurriculars every day after school that require transportation. That’s OK too. Locate your adult pants, pull them up and get on with it.

Spoken like someone who is either childless or has 1 kid.

The number of kids is your choice. You need to figure it out.

Lol the childless HOA president with 12 cats over here is here to lecture us on life choices 😂

No, a parent who ended up stying at home due to income and child care costs. Even wfh you need child care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Others are managing RTO without a village just like any other parents who work in person and don’t have a village. Having kids always has been a sacrifice for most people. You just had a reprieve for a few years.

A lot of child care centers decreased their hours and enrollment during the pandemic for safety reasons and haven’t been able to staff up to increase back to pre pandemic enrollment.

Parenthood has always been difficult, but I’ll put money on this delightful remark having come from someone ignorant to the fact that there is a dwindling supply of child care.

It’s not a dwindling supply but increased cost. I’m actually sympathetic to the RTO side because it’s apparent even in my own work (private) that full time WFH does not work, but something needs to be done about the cost of childcare. I pay exactly double an hour for a nanny that I did pre-pandemic. Double! And I’m not DCUM wealthy. The people saying “suck it up” paid $16 for a nanny just 5 years and have no idea what parents are up against. And if you complain about what nannies cost (more than many nurses make) people accuse you of abusing your employees. Parents can’t win.

But that’s the problem. You don’t need a “nanny.” Private in home childcare is a premium service. If you can’t afford it, you don’t get it. You use group childcare that you can afford. Yes, it will be less convenient for you. That’s OK. Yes, it may mean your kid doesn’t do extracurriculars every day after school that require transportation. That’s OK too. Locate your adult pants, pull them up and get on with it.

Spoken like someone who is either childless or has 1 kid.

The number of kids is your choice. You need to figure it out.

I’m the PP who posted about America being individualistic to the extreme. This attitude is not normal. So wonder so many ppl in the US are miserable.

I’m tired of high incomes complaining when they did not manage their money properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

+1. I can’t even with this.

Why not. It’s part of the benefit package that they advertise when you get hired: healthcare, dental benefits, paid leave depending on years of service and flexible work options. We make less but have better benefits.

It’s not “part of the benefit package” that your job and responsibilities and situation will remain exactly the same your entire career. Have you ever even had another job besides your Fed job? It doesn’t sound like it. Jobs, job situations, job duties, bosses, coworkers, and other aspects of your job are not promised and not forever. If you think you can find a different job that promises you full telework and full job security forever, you should definitely take it.

Yeah the Feds have no idea how things work now. 3 years ago they would make fun of me for being managed out in “up or out” culture. But it’s the standard practice in private - you work on critical business needs and that can change overnight.