Parents of small children - how are you managing RTO?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand the problems that people are facing with childcare and the stress of it. I understand this because I, along with many of us, have been there, done that. My kids are teens. When they were little and I was at a law firm and DH was (and still is for now) a fed, there were zero telework options. We were both in the office full time, all the time.

This situation now may seem unique and insurmountable. It is neither of those things. It is hard, though. And you’ll make it work.

DP. Agree. It is hard. 12 hour days in daycare. It is the reason we only had one child. But parents of young kids today never expected to go back in time like this.

Maybe not to this extreme but they absolutely should have planned to have childcare.

They did!!!! It is just structured around different assumptions. These are reasonable assumptions based on the trends of the last 10+ years. Not just COVID. It is utterly stupidity to have people FT in offices when the work they do spans the country and internationally. It costs more in RE and drives unnecessary congestion and environmental impact. People who cannot grasp this are either incredibly spiteful or stupid or both.

My office has a meeting with colleagues on the other side of the world very early in the morning next week. Management graciously allowed us to telework exclusively for the meeting, then come into the office at the peak of rush hour traffic for the rest our hours. LOL. I decided I will just take the call from the office and leave early that day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I got my citizenship recently and grew up abroad. I find this entire thread fascinating. America is such an individualistic country, I don’t think I’ve seen this anywhere else. There seems to be a notion that because having kids is an individual choice, they also are that individual’s burden and they are expected to carry that burden alone with absolutely no help from society. Yet having kids is a societal good and an aging population is dangerous for society especially now with ppl living longer. Who is supposed to look after you when you are older though? I’m not talking about individual arrangements. I’m talking about the nurses, the doctors, medical staff etc. Who builds the roads, houses, and infrastructure? Provides goods and services? Pays into social security? U know all the things needed for society to function? These are other people’s children. So there needs to be a way to figure out how to make work compatible with having families. Sure many of you can hire care but who looks after the family of the person you hire? Do they have affordable childcare? If we want to remain functional as a society we need to stop thinking in such an individualistic manner. Back home, the village literally raises the child. What’s America’s solution?

Fewer humans would be better for world society overall. We want fewer roads, houses, infrastructure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my citizenship recently and grew up abroad. I find this entire thread fascinating. America is such an individualistic country, I don’t think I’ve seen this anywhere else. There seems to be a notion that because having kids is an individual choice, they also are that individual’s burden and they are expected to carry that burden alone with absolutely no help from society. Yet having kids is a societal good and an aging population is dangerous for society especially now with ppl living longer. Who is supposed to look after you when you are older though? I’m not talking about individual arrangements. I’m talking about the nurses, the doctors, medical staff etc. Who builds the roads, houses, and infrastructure? Provides goods and services? Pays into social security? U know all the things needed for society to function? These are other people’s children. So there needs to be a way to figure out how to make work compatible with having families. Sure many of you can hire care but who looks after the family of the person you hire? Do they have affordable childcare? If we want to remain functional as a society we need to stop thinking in such an individualistic manner. Back home, the village literally raises the child. What’s America’s solution?

Fewer humans would be better for world society overall. We want fewer roads, houses, infrastructure.

+1. Went to several national parks recently -- they were so crowded it was unbearable. There are just too many people, and no need to add even more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my citizenship recently and grew up abroad. I find this entire thread fascinating. America is such an individualistic country, I don’t think I’ve seen this anywhere else. There seems to be a notion that because having kids is an individual choice, they also are that individual’s burden and they are expected to carry that burden alone with absolutely no help from society. Yet having kids is a societal good and an aging population is dangerous for society especially now with ppl living longer. Who is supposed to look after you when you are older though? I’m not talking about individual arrangements. I’m talking about the nurses, the doctors, medical staff etc. Who builds the roads, houses, and infrastructure? Provides goods and services? Pays into social security? U know all the things needed for society to function? These are other people’s children. So there needs to be a way to figure out how to make work compatible with having families. Sure many of you can hire care but who looks after the family of the person you hire? Do they have affordable childcare? If we want to remain functional as a society we need to stop thinking in such an individualistic manner. Back home, the village literally raises the child. What’s America’s solution?

Fewer humans would be better for world society overall. We want fewer roads, houses, infrastructure.

+1. Went to several national parks recently -- they were so crowded it was unbearable. There are just too many people, and no need to add even more.

So your solution is for humanity to just die out altogether? That's rather extreme.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my citizenship recently and grew up abroad. I find this entire thread fascinating. America is such an individualistic country, I don’t think I’ve seen this anywhere else. There seems to be a notion that because having kids is an individual choice, they also are that individual’s burden and they are expected to carry that burden alone with absolutely no help from society. Yet having kids is a societal good and an aging population is dangerous for society especially now with ppl living longer. Who is supposed to look after you when you are older though? I’m not talking about individual arrangements. I’m talking about the nurses, the doctors, medical staff etc. Who builds the roads, houses, and infrastructure? Provides goods and services? Pays into social security? U know all the things needed for society to function? These are other people’s children. So there needs to be a way to figure out how to make work compatible with having families. Sure many of you can hire care but who looks after the family of the person you hire? Do they have affordable childcare? If we want to remain functional as a society we need to stop thinking in such an individualistic manner. Back home, the village literally raises the child. What’s America’s solution?

Fewer humans would be better for world society overall. We want fewer roads, houses, infrastructure.

+1. Went to several national parks recently -- they were so crowded it was unbearable. There are just too many people, and no need to add even more.

Oh come on. Look at other countries with declining birth rates . . . it's not super sustainable. You know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my citizenship recently and grew up abroad. I find this entire thread fascinating. America is such an individualistic country, I don’t think I’ve seen this anywhere else. There seems to be a notion that because having kids is an individual choice, they also are that individual’s burden and they are expected to carry that burden alone with absolutely no help from society. Yet having kids is a societal good and an aging population is dangerous for society especially now with ppl living longer. Who is supposed to look after you when you are older though? I’m not talking about individual arrangements. I’m talking about the nurses, the doctors, medical staff etc. Who builds the roads, houses, and infrastructure? Provides goods and services? Pays into social security? U know all the things needed for society to function? These are other people’s children. So there needs to be a way to figure out how to make work compatible with having families. Sure many of you can hire care but who looks after the family of the person you hire? Do they have affordable childcare? If we want to remain functional as a society we need to stop thinking in such an individualistic manner. Back home, the village literally raises the child. What’s America’s solution?

Fewer humans would be better for world society overall. We want fewer roads, houses, infrastructure.

I see..so you view a society that is this individualistic and views each human as a burden as a good thing? Every man for his own..no need to live as a society that cares for one another. Sick thinking.

[Anonymous]

I'm tired of people like PPs on here who say we were "spoiled" these last few years. Bullsh*t. We were finally coming closer to having better work situations for families with two working parents. It's not spoiled. It's more practical and better for the whole family, including kids, who most people claim to care so much about.

This is a step backward. Telling people who are upset to put on their big girl panties or similar stupid BS is just ahole behavior. EVERYONE would love flexibility if offered. Of course people with kids don't want to give it up, ESPECIALLY when there is no REAL reason they are doing this in terms of quality of work. This is all to hurt the workers so they'll quit. It's backassward and cruel. Don't be a dick about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much drama about family values and this country provides zero supports to working parents, as a society we are cruel, individualistic and mean. No wonder we have mentally fu*ked up kids blowing up other kids in schools. This talk of the greatest, wealthiest nation is just bs, wealth and benefits only for the billionaire class, the rest can spend their lives in servitude to the rich.

I don’t see where this is coming from. I grew up a “latch key” kid (remember when that was a thing) and my kids were in daycare while DH and I were in the office full time.

Is the implication that daycare is causing school shootings?

Maybe having parents around all the time is causing the anxiety and depression spikes in kids.

Please go into the general parenting forum and express that kids should be removed from their parents for more hours of the day in order to prevent anxiety and depression and school shootings.

I’m not suggesting that should happen. I’m pointing out correlation does not equal causation. RTO will not increase school shootings. Before and after care will probably have no impact on anxiety/depression in kids.

I’m suggesting you should see the reaction from parents to suggesting that. Particularly if you identify yourself as a mother.

No one loves these years when you feel squeezed beyond belief- financially, physically, emotionally. I am a mother who has been through this stage and it was hard. We paid $40k a year for daycare. I’m sure it’s more now. And then we paid for aftercare. You and others will go through this stage and it will be hard. There is no way around it but through it.

I don't understand this mentality at all. Especially when you can see the data that costs exceed raises. So we are squeezed x times financially which adds x more stress. Commutes are longer. Fact. Cost increased. Fact.
It's not apples to apples no matter how much you pat our heads and tell us how hard it is. It's like a grandparent tellinf their grandkid they paid for college working during the summers and just stop getting Starbucks.

Oh poor you! It’s so much harder now and there’s nothing you can do about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my citizenship recently and grew up abroad. I find this entire thread fascinating. America is such an individualistic country, I don’t think I’ve seen this anywhere else. There seems to be a notion that because having kids is an individual choice, they also are that individual’s burden and they are expected to carry that burden alone with absolutely no help from society. Yet having kids is a societal good and an aging population is dangerous for society especially now with ppl living longer. Who is supposed to look after you when you are older though? I’m not talking about individual arrangements. I’m talking about the nurses, the doctors, medical staff etc. Who builds the roads, houses, and infrastructure? Provides goods and services? Pays into social security? U know all the things needed for society to function? These are other people’s children. So there needs to be a way to figure out how to make work compatible with having families. Sure many of you can hire care but who looks after the family of the person you hire? Do they have affordable childcare? If we want to remain functional as a society we need to stop thinking in such an individualistic manner. Back home, the village literally raises the child. What’s America’s solution?

Fewer humans would be better for world society overall. We want fewer roads, houses, infrastructure.

+1. Went to several national parks recently -- they were so crowded it was unbearable. There are just too many people, and no need to add even more.

I've been away from this thread for a couple days. How did we get from "how do you deal with your young children" to "this world needs fewer humans"???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm tired of people like PPs on here who say we were "spoiled" these last few years. Bullsh*t. We were finally coming closer to having better work situations for families with two working parents. It's not spoiled. It's more practical and better for the whole family, including kids, who most people claim to care so much about.

This is a step backward. Telling people who are upset to put on their big girl panties or similar stupid BS is just ahole behavior. EVERYONE would love flexibility if offered. Of course people with kids don't want to give it up, ESPECIALLY when there is no REAL reason they are doing this in terms of quality of work. This is all to hurt the workers so they'll quit. It's backassward and cruel. Don't be a dick about it.

Of course it's a step backward, I think we can all agree on this, however, you have to deal with your current reality and we're telling you how we did it in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my citizenship recently and grew up abroad. I find this entire thread fascinating. America is such an individualistic country, I don’t think I’ve seen this anywhere else. There seems to be a notion that because having kids is an individual choice, they also are that individual’s burden and they are expected to carry that burden alone with absolutely no help from society. Yet having kids is a societal good and an aging population is dangerous for society especially now with ppl living longer. Who is supposed to look after you when you are older though? I’m not talking about individual arrangements. I’m talking about the nurses, the doctors, medical staff etc. Who builds the roads, houses, and infrastructure? Provides goods and services? Pays into social security? U know all the things needed for society to function? These are other people’s children. So there needs to be a way to figure out how to make work compatible with having families. Sure many of you can hire care but who looks after the family of the person you hire? Do they have affordable childcare? If we want to remain functional as a society we need to stop thinking in such an individualistic manner. Back home, the village literally raises the child. What’s America’s solution?

Fewer humans would be better for world society overall. We want fewer roads, houses, infrastructure.

+1. Went to several national parks recently -- they were so crowded it was unbearable. There are just too many people, and no need to add even more.

So your solution is for humanity to just die out altogether? That's rather extreme.

Obviously the rest of the world (without extreme views or individualism values) just can’t help themselves immigrating, I say we are fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

Exactly. But no, they don’t understand that. They’re blinded by their own sense of entitlement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm tired of people like PPs on here who say we were "spoiled" these last few years. Bullsh*t. We were finally coming closer to having better work situations for families with two working parents. It's not spoiled. It's more practical and better for the whole family, including kids, who most people claim to care so much about.

This is a step backward. Telling people who are upset to put on their big girl panties or similar stupid BS is just ahole behavior. EVERYONE would love flexibility if offered. Of course people with kids don't want to give it up, ESPECIALLY when there is no REAL reason they are doing this in terms of quality of work. This is all to hurt the workers so they'll quit. It's backassward and cruel. Don't be a dick about it.

Of course it's a step backward, I think we can all agree on this, however, you have to deal with your current reality and we're telling you how we did it in the past.

There have been some helpful and matter of fact posts in this vein. Yours is very reasonable. There have also been some snide and unnecessary ones. Lots of different posters here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

Not OP. But I believe the point of this comment was in response to another comment that everyone had to go in before covid and figured it out so why can’t we figure it out now. And we should have known/planned better that once covid ended we’d be expected to be back in the office. But this is false.. plenty of ppl were WFH before covid and there was never an expectation to go back after covid. I don’t think anyone is looking for sympathy… just defending their position on WFH.

LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm tired of people like PPs on here who say we were "spoiled" these last few years. Bullsh*t. We were finally coming closer to having better work situations for families with two working parents. It's not spoiled. It's more practical and better for the whole family, including kids, who most people claim to care so much about.

This is a step backward. Telling people who are upset to put on their big girl panties or similar stupid BS is just ahole behavior. EVERYONE would love flexibility if offered. Of course people with kids don't want to give it up, ESPECIALLY when there is no REAL reason they are doing this in terms of quality of work. This is all to hurt the workers so they'll quit. It's backassward and cruel. Don't be a dick about it.

I am not your boss who made the RTO call, just trying to help by coming up with some childcare options. If you are so angry just go find another job, and stop seeing random internet posters as your enemy. In reality, no one cares.