AEM post/discussion re racism and choice schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

And residents had absolutely nothing to do with those County decisions. Everyone - residents across the County, affordable housing developers, luxury home developers - were clamoring for it to be spread out; but the County simply ignored them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

That's not what the data shows. The programs are above Arlington's FRL average and draw students from N Arl to Gunston and Wakefield. And while I agree that Hispanic is only one type of diversity, the programs go beyond just teaching students of a certain ethnicity by incorporating a great deal of cross-cultural education along with a second language.

Close to 60% of the immersion students are Hispanic. I don't know what their FRL rate is but neither school is title I but looks like it's mostly middle class Spanish speaking families going to immersion. Just another option that is mostly benefiting kids who already have alot of advantages and claiming it's better for the poor kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

Disagree about HB. Theoretically, if we have so many non-white schools and so many diverse option schools and a few "more diverse" SA neighborhood schools, that's about half of the elementary schools. And ASFS supposedly has a diverse population as well, right? So a program drawing proportionately from all of those schools should be more reflective of the overall student demographics.

The problem isn't the admissions policy of HB; it's the people who are not applying and/or getting in to HB. When Carlin Springs sends zero students to HB, another schools' applicants get to take their spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

That's not what the data shows. The programs are above Arlington's FRL average and draw students from N Arl to Gunston and Wakefield. And while I agree that Hispanic is only one type of diversity, the programs go beyond just teaching students of a certain ethnicity by incorporating a great deal of cross-cultural education along with a second language.

That's not diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

That's not what the data shows. The programs are above Arlington's FRL average and draw students from N Arl to Gunston and Wakefield. And while I agree that Hispanic is only one type of diversity, the programs go beyond just teaching students of a certain ethnicity by incorporating a great deal of cross-cultural education along with a second language.

Close to 60% of the immersion students are Hispanic. I don't know what their FRL rate is but neither school is title I but looks like it's mostly middle class Spanish speaking families going to immersion. Just another option that is mostly benefiting kids who already have alot of advantages and claiming it's better for the poor kids.

So your objections are that the schools don't explicitly cater to the least affluent segment of Arlington, but are closer to the county averages? Because Hispanic folks are a traditionally advantaged group and aren't subject to wide spread discrimination? Because many immersion students haven't signed up to be bused across the county to school with lower stats in order to learn a second language? So your solve is to end immersion to increase diversity and inclusion in Arlington? Such nonsense.

[Anonymous]

^^
Many of us moved to DMV from other states and we bought in NA because we work in DC and want to be near the Orange line and bus lines that take us directly to the stations, or close-by parking. When I was looking, I was told by coworkers and realtors that all Arlington schools are very good, so we looked all over the county.

And what's the big deal if "white" people want to spend extra to live in NA if they can afford it and want a more green, suburban setting?! Why are so many in Arlington so race-obsessed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools are some of the most diverse and balanced in Arlington. If people actually want to solve the issue of structural racism you don't shut down the option schools. You go after the schools that are 2% minority. This means radical boundary adjustments or a countywide ranked choice system. I'm all for it, but are they? Kinda doubt it, they people want their cake and they want to eat it too.

People are also ignoring that having the option programs at Gunston and Wakefield are helpful to disparities at those schools. My 22207 kid wouldn't attend either except for their option program and their stats absolutely benefit the school.

+1. Zoned for Hamm/Yorktown; kid attended/s Gunston & WHS. We know lots of families in the same position.

With every boundary change over the past 30 plus years, including the latest ones, which further concentrated wealth in the Yorktown school pyramids, these option programs are helping to balance demographics.

APS could have come up with better boundaries, to account for housing patterns and segregation, but they never really did, or made halfhearted attempts at best.

Since demographics are no longer weighted in the new boundary change criteria, the only solutions are our successful option programs (the status quo), or going to a lottery system for all schools. (Boundaries are now focused on proximity and alignment.)

Or the JFs of the world could use their energy pushing for more equitable boundaries. But you don't see him doing that. He went right from screaming for a virtual option program to wanting to shut down options for others when he didn't get what he wanted for his kid. And dressing it up as doing it for social justice reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

That's not what the data shows. The programs are above Arlington's FRL average and draw students from N Arl to Gunston and Wakefield. And while I agree that Hispanic is only one type of diversity, the programs go beyond just teaching students of a certain ethnicity by incorporating a great deal of cross-cultural education along with a second language.

Close to 60% of the immersion students are Hispanic. I don't know what their FRL rate is but neither school is title I but looks like it's mostly middle class Spanish speaking families going to immersion. Just another option that is mostly benefiting kids who already have alot of advantages and claiming it's better for the poor kids.

HB parent here and these numbers don't show the ESOL HILT program which is co-located and integrated with HB. If you put those numbers together with the HB lottery numbers, you would see the actual diversity that is there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^
Many of us moved to DMV from other states and we bought in NA because we work in DC and want to be near the Orange line and bus lines that take us directly to the stations, or close-by parking. When I was looking, I was told by coworkers and realtors that all Arlington schools are very good, so we looked all over the county.

And what's the big deal if "white" people want to spend extra to live in NA if they can afford it and want a more green, suburban setting?! Why are so many in Arlington so race-obsessed?

Look at the last 25 pages for the answer.

NA schools have more kids from MC housing secure families, have less teacher turnover and better funded PTAs that can pay for field trips and other extras + kids who show up for school.

SA schools don’t have most of these things.

Options are like NA schools but more racially and economically diverse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

That's not what the data shows. The programs are above Arlington's FRL average and draw students from N Arl to Gunston and Wakefield. And while I agree that Hispanic is only one type of diversity, the programs go beyond just teaching students of a certain ethnicity by incorporating a great deal of cross-cultural education along with a second language.

Close to 60% of the immersion students are Hispanic. I don't know what their FRL rate is but neither school is title I but looks like it's mostly middle class Spanish speaking families going to immersion. Just another option that is mostly benefiting kids who already have alot of advantages and claiming it's better for the poor kids.

You are just making things up. “It looks like…”. I have kids in immersion. No, the Hispanic families there are not “mostly” “wealthy.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

That's not what the data shows. The programs are above Arlington's FRL average and draw students from N Arl to Gunston and Wakefield. And while I agree that Hispanic is only one type of diversity, the programs go beyond just teaching students of a certain ethnicity by incorporating a great deal of cross-cultural education along with a second language.

That's not diversity.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^
Many of us moved to DMV from other states and we bought in NA because we work in DC and want to be near the Orange line and bus lines that take us directly to the stations, or close-by parking. When I was looking, I was told by coworkers and realtors that all Arlington schools are very good, so we looked all over the county.

And what's the big deal if "white" people want to spend extra to live in NA if they can afford it and want a more green, suburban setting?! Why are so many in Arlington so race-obsessed?

You're probably not a bad person, but you are very out of touch, and this is one of the harms of segregation. It harms everyone, including people like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.

22204 -- 4 bed, 4 bath, 5,000 sq ft house, 2 car garage, 8000 sq ft lot, nice SFH neighborhood close to 395 and Pentagon City metro (Douglas Park), $1.3M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3505A-16th-St-S_Arlington_VA_22204_M91441-13462?from=srp-list-card

in 22207, similar houses are $1.8M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2115-Military-Rd_Arlington_VA_22207_M60569-95271?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5205-27th-Rd-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M66375-43352?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2254-N-Columbus-St_Arlington_VA_22207_M67625-96482?from=srp-list-card

$2.3M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6207-29th-St-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M54395-94810?from=srp-list-card

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

That's not what the data shows. The programs are above Arlington's FRL average and draw students from N Arl to Gunston and Wakefield. And while I agree that Hispanic is only one type of diversity, the programs go beyond just teaching students of a certain ethnicity by incorporating a great deal of cross-cultural education along with a second language.

That's not diversity.

Apparently you're not familiar with the diversity of Hispanic cultures. It's not singular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools are some of the most diverse and balanced in Arlington. If people actually want to solve the issue of structural racism you don't shut down the option schools. You go after the schools that are 2% minority. This means radical boundary adjustments or a countywide ranked choice system. I'm all for it, but are they? Kinda doubt it, they people want their cake and they want to eat it too.

People are also ignoring that having the option programs at Gunston and Wakefield are helpful to disparities at those schools. My 22207 kid wouldn't attend either except for their option program and their stats absolutely benefit the school.

+1. Zoned for Hamm/Yorktown; kid attended/s Gunston & WHS. We know lots of families in the same position.

With every boundary change over the past 30 plus years, including the latest ones, which further concentrated wealth in the Yorktown school pyramids, these option programs are helping to balance demographics.

APS could have come up with better boundaries, to account for housing patterns and segregation, but they never really did, or made halfhearted attempts at best.

Since demographics are no longer weighted in the new boundary change criteria, the only solutions are our successful option programs (the status quo), or going to a lottery system for all schools. (Boundaries are now focused on proximity and alignment.)

Or the JFs of the world could use their energy pushing for more equitable boundaries. But you don't see him doing that. He went right from screaming for a virtual option program to wanting to shut down options for others when he didn't get what he wanted for his kid. And dressing it up as doing it for social justice reasons.

I believe he's doing it for budget reasons, nothing to do with social justice or diversity or anything else.