AEM post/discussion re racism and choice schools

[Anonymous]

Ok, so ranked choice…

You realize (even more) people who can afford it will flee to private schools, right? And what happens then? I don’t think you’ll get the outcomes you’re hoping for.

People keep saying that being around well-resourced kids has a positive effect on the rest of the student body. What happens when they all leave?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so ranked choice…

You realize (even more) people who can afford it will flee to private schools, right? And what happens then? I don’t think you’ll get the outcomes you’re hoping for.

People keep saying that being around well-resourced kids has a positive effect on the rest of the student body. What happens when they all leave?

Or maybe more would stay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't comment in that thread, but I've looked at these data before and there is a very strong relationship between school poverty level and the % of families who opt out. The reality is that APS is happy to have a bunch of schools that are 40% or more free and reduced lunch, and the families zoned for those schools apply for option schools at a much higher rate.

Does that make them racist? I don't think so. Data show when a school goes above 40% or more FARMS outcomes suffer. The real issue is that Arlington is all about concentrating poverty and doesn't really care how it affects schools.

I don't really what the point JF is trying to make, that wasn't clear to me. Does he want to kill option programs? Or is he just pointing out that parents behave in this way? I know his wife teaches at a low income school and he thinks people are dumb to avoid it because it's a good school.

APS has basically said they are not going to consider this in any boundary decisions, and they pretty much always make the FARMS disparities worse in every single boundary decision. I can't see options schools going away, personally.

But I do think it's ridiculous that Arlington has such huge disparities.

With the last boundary policy update, demographics will no longer factor into the criteria. Feeder alignment and proximity are the criteria that will compete for attention. Community input will also be limited unlike in the recent past, where the debates often got ugly.

[Anonymous]

Well, if APS would stop creating and enabling high poverty schools, then people would stop fleeing them.

It was clear when Drew opened as fully neighborhood that you could never fill all those seats because of this issue, but saying that aloud in Arlington is not allowed. Maybe that's the point he's making? Again, I really don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so ranked choice…

You realize (even more) people who can afford it will flee to private schools, right? And what happens then? I don’t think you’ll get the outcomes you’re hoping for.

People keep saying that being around well-resourced kids has a positive effect on the rest of the student body. What happens when they all leave?

Or maybe more would stay

Sure. You saw how Nottingham mommies behaved when they thought they might have to — gasp! — move to Jamestown!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so ranked choice…

You realize (even more) people who can afford it will flee to private schools, right? And what happens then? I don’t think you’ll get the outcomes you’re hoping for.

People keep saying that being around well-resourced kids has a positive effect on the rest of the student body. What happens when they all leave?

Or maybe more would stay

Sure. You saw how Nottingham mommies behaved when they thought they might have to — gasp! — move to Jamestown!

You can structure rank choice in a way where people in walkzones get priority/guaranteed attendance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so ranked choice…

You realize (even more) people who can afford it will flee to private schools, right? And what happens then? I don’t think you’ll get the outcomes you’re hoping for.

People keep saying that being around well-resourced kids has a positive effect on the rest of the student body. What happens when they all leave?

Or maybe more would stay

Sure. You saw how Nottingham mommies behaved when they thought they might have to — gasp! — move to Jamestown!

You can structure rank choice in a way where people in walkzones get priority/guaranteed attendance

Ok, so when all of those schools are near capacity (because those students don’t want to leave their neighborhood schools), a few kids from SA can join them, and — then what?

Again, who is choosing our low performing schools? Because someone has to go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not on AEM, but he posted the same thing in the teacher’s group. He didn’t have a problem with option programs when his kid was in VLP. In fact, he asked about their plans for it at every board meeting until it was ultimately killed. I think he is coming for Troy schools and TJ in retaliation.

Yeah, this is what gets me too. If I can't have it, no one can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, but one of the main commenters on that post absolutely hates MSPA (no judgement from me either way). But the background is interesting: their home was rezoned away from Fleet to Drew when MPSA moved into Henry. There’s lots of animosity still about that and also with the Career Center not becoming a neighborhood school, which would have benefited that family, but rather a choice school open to all regardless of boundaries. Interestingly, their child was allowed a transfer to Fleet and never attended Drew even after the reasoning. But that poster is really angry because other parents also attend schools that aren’t their assigned one. So, anyway, some of us didn’t forget about that.

Boundaries are the problem. Our neighborhoods are segregated base on our racial past (redlining, etc.), and so neighborhood schools are also segregated.

Forcing everyone to attend their assigned schools will not solve the problem in any meaningful way, and it will also remove choices from all those who can’t make “checkbook” choices like wealthy families can, to live in certain neighborhoods or to pay for private schools.

It’s not a solvable problem, so it’s better to just worry about yourself. If you’re a white (or even non-white) family of means really not comfortable with the neighborhood school for whatever reason, you’re not going to send your kids to the school even if they take away option schools. You’re going to go private or move to a different zone.

Actually, it is. Ranked choice admissions countywide.

Of course you’re correct. I meant not solvable with boundaries and not realistic to think anything else would ever happen. It will be a cold day in hell before ranked choice is implemented. Staff gets fired for suggesting schools in the great white North could be consolidated. Heads roll for much less controversial things.

I agree this would be great, and I also agree Arlington would never go for it. Of course, North Arlington would revolt. But South Arlington would too. People love their neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, but one of the main commenters on that post absolutely hates MSPA (no judgement from me either way). But the background is interesting: their home was rezoned away from Fleet to Drew when MPSA moved into Henry. There’s lots of animosity still about that and also with the Career Center not becoming a neighborhood school, which would have benefited that family, but rather a choice school open to all regardless of boundaries. Interestingly, their child was allowed a transfer to Fleet and never attended Drew even after the reasoning. But that poster is really angry because other parents also attend schools that aren’t their assigned one. So, anyway, some of us didn’t forget about that.

Boundaries are the problem. Our neighborhoods are segregated base on our racial past (redlining, etc.), and so neighborhood schools are also segregated.

Forcing everyone to attend their assigned schools will not solve the problem in any meaningful way, and it will also remove choices from all those who can’t make “checkbook” choices like wealthy families can, to live in certain neighborhoods or to pay for private schools.

It’s not a solvable problem, so it’s better to just worry about yourself. If you’re a white (or even non-white) family of means really not comfortable with the neighborhood school for whatever reason, you’re not going to send your kids to the school even if they take away option schools. You’re going to go private or move to a different zone.

Actually, it is. Ranked choice admissions countywide.

Of course you’re correct. I meant not solvable with boundaries and not realistic to think anything else would ever happen. It will be a cold day in hell before ranked choice is implemented. Staff gets fired for suggesting schools in the great white North could be consolidated. Heads roll for much less controversial things.

Staff gets fired for that? really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't comment in that thread, but I've looked at these data before and there is a very strong relationship between school poverty level and the % of families who opt out. The reality is that APS is happy to have a bunch of schools that are 40% or more free and reduced lunch, and the families zoned for those schools apply for option schools at a much higher rate.

Does that make them racist? I don't think so. Data show when a school goes above 40% or more FARMS outcomes suffer. The real issue is that Arlington is all about concentrating poverty and doesn't really care how it affects schools.

I don't really what the point JF is trying to make, that wasn't clear to me. Does he want to kill option programs? Or is he just pointing out that parents behave in this way? I know his wife teaches at a low income school and he thinks people are dumb to avoid it because it's a good school.

APS has basically said they are not going to consider this in any boundary decisions, and they pretty much always make the FARMS disparities worse in every single boundary decision. I can't see options schools going away, personally.

But I do think it's ridiculous that Arlington has such huge disparities.

With the last boundary policy update, demographics will no longer factor into the criteria. Feeder alignment and proximity are the criteria that will compete for attention. Community input will also be limited unlike in the recent past, where the debates often got ugly.

Interesting, so why isn't teacher budget guy talking about THAT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, if APS would stop creating and enabling high poverty schools, then people would stop fleeing them.

It was clear when Drew opened as fully neighborhood that you could never fill all those seats because of this issue, but saying that aloud in Arlington is not allowed. Maybe that's the point he's making? Again, I really don't know.

I never understood this decision. But then I don't live in Green Valley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so ranked choice…

You realize (even more) people who can afford it will flee to private schools, right? And what happens then? I don’t think you’ll get the outcomes you’re hoping for.

People keep saying that being around well-resourced kids has a positive effect on the rest of the student body. What happens when they all leave?

Or maybe more would stay

Sure. You saw how Nottingham mommies behaved when they thought they might have to — gasp! — move to Jamestown!

You can structure rank choice in a way where people in walkzones get priority/guaranteed attendance

then how would it solve the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He named his link to the data "[his name] is probably wrong." I took it as a conversation starter, and it did seem to start a conversation.

Is he responding to comments?

No, which I find so annoying. If he’s going to be posting this stuff then he should at least explain and defend his view. I don’t understand that other person who keeps posting and defending him and trying to say “what I think he means is xyz…”

I chose an option school to avoid my neighborhood school and it’s not because I’m racist. I’m not white. It’s because my neighborhood score has low academic standards, behavioral issues, etc. If my neighborhood school had the same demographics but had a curriculum and expectations more like ATS I would not have left!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My takeaway is that if you have enough money to buy a house in the wealthiest zip codes, you never have to worry about being called racist.

You think so? I think it's more that you isolate yourself so much that you don't hear the people who call you racist because they aren't your fellow "flee from the south arlington schools" people. If you were to be a fly in south Arlington conversations, you would hear the racist accusations toward those wealthiest zip coders.

This is so dumb to me. I live in N Arlington because both DH and I had jobs right along I-66/orange line corridor. South Arlington would not work for our commutes.

Real nice community you have in the south part of the county talking crap about people in different zip codes. FWIW I’ve never heard anyone in the North part of the county say bad things about the people living in the south part.