AEM post/discussion re racism and choice schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

[Anonymous]

It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools are some of the most diverse and balanced in Arlington. If people actually want to solve the issue of structural racism you don't shut down the option schools. You go after the schools that are 2% minority. This means radical boundary adjustments or a countywide ranked choice system. I'm all for it, but are they? Kinda doubt it, they people want their cake and they want to eat it too.

People are also ignoring that having the option programs at Gunston and Wakefield are helpful to disparities at those schools. My 22207 kid wouldn't attend either except for their option program and their stats absolutely benefit the school.

+1. Zoned for Hamm/Yorktown; kid attended/s Gunston & WHS. We know lots of families in the same position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Just as a point, your children are considered “white” in terms of APS statistics. At schools like Randolph and Carlin Springs the “white” children are often kids like your own, just more recently arrived and with parents who don’t know (yet) how to navigate the system. Also, some people in the AEM thread aren’t in touch with just how diverse the ES option schools are, because they were less diverse in the past and prior to APS moving VPI programs around and adjusting policies at the Immersion schools so there were balanced admissions of English/Spanish speakers. I don’t disagree with anything else you’ve said.

Yes I should have mentioned the point about my kids being considered "white" for statistics purposes =) There are so many kids of Middle Eastern origin from ATS (mostly North African which are considered white in terms of Arlington statistics). This means that a portion of the white students in ATS which constitute around 35%, are actually of Middle Eastern origin, making ATS even more diverse that the statistics show. In addition, there are a lot of kids of recent immigrants of Eastern European origin (Polish, Ukranian, etc.) who are obviously considered white as well. I will also add that my neighborhood school, Tuckahoe, is excellent and but not diverse at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools are some of the most diverse and balanced in Arlington. If people actually want to solve the issue of structural racism you don't shut down the option schools. You go after the schools that are 2% minority. This means radical boundary adjustments or a countywide ranked choice system. I'm all for it, but are they? Kinda doubt it, they people want their cake and they want to eat it too.

People are also ignoring that having the option programs at Gunston and Wakefield are helpful to disparities at those schools. My 22207 kid wouldn't attend either except for their option program and their stats absolutely benefit the school.

+1. Zoned for Hamm/Yorktown; kid attended/s Gunston & WHS. We know lots of families in the same position.

With every boundary change over the past 30 plus years, including the latest ones, which further concentrated wealth in the Yorktown school pyramids, these option programs are helping to balance demographics.

APS could have come up with better boundaries, to account for housing patterns and segregation, but they never really did, or made halfhearted attempts at best.

Since demographics are no longer weighted in the new boundary change criteria, the only solutions are our successful option programs (the status quo), or going to a lottery system for all schools. (Boundaries are now focused on proximity and alignment.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

That's not what the data shows. The programs are above Arlington's FRL average and draw students from N Arl to Gunston and Wakefield. And while I agree that Hispanic is only one type of diversity, the programs go beyond just teaching students of a certain ethnicity by incorporating a great deal of cross-cultural education along with a second language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been going on in Arlington for decades. The idea that schools that are majority Hispanic are “diverse” and the housing policies that schools in S Arl with students who have major economic and language instruction needs. People in S Arl aren’t racist. They do not care one whit about the race of students. What they want is for their kids to attend a school where the focus is not the most basic needs for the majority of kids. So they go option. You will never win the fight to diversify S Arl schools. This is the way the county wants it. Help lots of poor people but keep them in certain areas. It’s what the Board wants. It’s what the developers want. If you want public schools that focus on anything other than the bare minimum, you need to go option or look north or move to Fairfax. Many of us tried to fight. But we eventually gave up and moved. My kids now go to a public school in FCPS that is extremely diverse. Kids from every country imaginable. Won’t happen in Arlington other than ATS, maybe.

AMEN! EXACTLY! ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON!
--didn't move; didn't option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools are some of the most diverse and balanced in Arlington. If people actually want to solve the issue of structural racism you don't shut down the option schools. You go after the schools that are 2% minority. This means radical boundary adjustments or a countywide ranked choice system. I'm all for it, but are they? Kinda doubt it, they people want their cake and they want to eat it too.

People are also ignoring that having the option programs at Gunston and Wakefield are helpful to disparities at those schools. My 22207 kid wouldn't attend either except for their option program and their stats absolutely benefit the school.

"Their stats absolutely benefit the school"??? Their "stats" benefit the school?
So your child increases the non-FRL rate and, I assume, provides good test scores. But does your CHILD benefit the school? My understanding is that Montessori isn't particularly integrated into the larger school community; and immersion is also separated a lot. Benefiting overal stats is not the same as creating a comparable, integrated school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

How dare they be both Hispanic and not low income!?! So offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools are some of the most diverse and balanced in Arlington. If people actually want to solve the issue of structural racism you don't shut down the option schools. You go after the schools that are 2% minority. This means radical boundary adjustments or a countywide ranked choice system. I'm all for it, but are they? Kinda doubt it, they people want their cake and they want to eat it too.

People are also ignoring that having the option programs at Gunston and Wakefield are helpful to disparities at those schools. My 22207 kid wouldn't attend either except for their option program and their stats absolutely benefit the school.

"Their stats absolutely benefit the school"??? Their "stats" benefit the school?
So your child increases the non-FRL rate and, I assume, provides good test scores. But does your CHILD benefit the school? My understanding is that Montessori isn't particularly integrated into the larger school community; and immersion is also separated a lot. Benefiting overal stats is not the same as creating a comparable, integrated school.

My child is a lovely person and an excellent school citizen. They benefit any school they attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

And you, my friend, are naive. I KNOW people specifically buy homes in NA - don't even LOOK in SA - because I know many who did exactly that. And I also know it because when we started looking to buy our house, countless people told us we need to look in NA because of the schools in SA. I know this is a fact because older neighbors shared their similar anecdotes.

The fact that childless couples buy homes in NA is entirely irrelevant. They (1) don't need to care about the school differences and/or (2) may not YET have children but plan to and... you know.... the schools. Sure, there are other attractions to buy in NA; but there are also some equally good attractions for buying in SA. All things being the same in a neighborhood, many will choose the NA option because....schools.

Not everyone. But you're "kinda dumb" if you think it's uncommon.