AEM post/discussion re racism and choice schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the county’s fault for concentrating affordable housing in certain areas, rather than spreading it out.

Nothing changes till that does, ‘cause ain’t nobody going to go for busing all over the place.

exactly, the choice school debate is just a distraction by people who don't like choice schools.

Check out the agenda for tonight's School Board meeting. APS is planning to make MPSA a lot larger. Look at the who attends HB in a new building, AT is getting a new building and now MPSA. These are the least diverse option schools in APS and making them larger will make inequity in SA schools worse.

The Spanish immersion programs support diversity and inclusion by their very nature.

HB allocates seats by elementary school with very few seats per school, so doesn't move the needle in any significant way.

This conversation seems to be about the other programs with Montessori, ATS and Campbell being the primary targets.

You must be an Immersion parent. Agree with PP that serving a lot of Hispanic kids doesn't mean diverse. And most of those Hispanic kids are from wealthy Spanish-speaking families.

That's not what the data shows. The programs are above Arlington's FRL average and draw students from N Arl to Gunston and Wakefield. And while I agree that Hispanic is only one type of diversity, the programs go beyond just teaching students of a certain ethnicity by incorporating a great deal of cross-cultural education along with a second language.

That's not diversity.

Apparently you're not familiar with the diversity of Hispanic cultures. It's not singular.

That's not what the bolded part is talking about. TEACHING "a great deal of cross-cultural education along with a second language" does not make the student body diverse. Arlington has "taught" and preached about diversity for decades - that's not diversity, it's curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.

22204 -- 4 bed, 4 bath, 5,000 sq ft house, 2 car garage, 8000 sq ft lot, nice SFH neighborhood close to 395 and Pentagon City metro (Douglas Park), $1.3M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3505A-16th-St-S_Arlington_VA_22204_M91441-13462?from=srp-list-card

in 22207, similar houses are $1.8M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2115-Military-Rd_Arlington_VA_22207_M60569-95271?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5205-27th-Rd-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M66375-43352?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2254-N-Columbus-St_Arlington_VA_22207_M67625-96482?from=srp-list-card

$2.3M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6207-29th-St-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M54395-94810?from=srp-list-card

The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.

https://www.homes.com/property/724-n-cleveland-st-arlington-va/j119e7w41rrhw/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.

22204 -- 4 bed, 4 bath, 5,000 sq ft house, 2 car garage, 8000 sq ft lot, nice SFH neighborhood close to 395 and Pentagon City metro (Douglas Park), $1.3M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3505A-16th-St-S_Arlington_VA_22204_M91441-13462?from=srp-list-card

in 22207, similar houses are $1.8M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2115-Military-Rd_Arlington_VA_22207_M60569-95271?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5205-27th-Rd-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M66375-43352?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2254-N-Columbus-St_Arlington_VA_22207_M67625-96482?from=srp-list-card

$2.3M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6207-29th-St-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M54395-94810?from=srp-list-card

The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.

https://www.homes.com/property/724-n-cleveland-st-arlington-va/j119e7w41rrhw/

That house is only 3 bed 2 bath. It absolutely does have to do with schools. Why else would all the real estate sites have links to Great Schools, which is just a proxy for school demographics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^
Many of us moved to DMV from other states and we bought in NA because we work in DC and want to be near the Orange line and bus lines that take us directly to the stations, or close-by parking. When I was looking, I was told by coworkers and realtors that all Arlington schools are very good, so we looked all over the county.

And what's the big deal if "white" people want to spend extra to live in NA if they can afford it and want a more green, suburban setting?! Why are so many in Arlington so race-obsessed?

Look at the last 25 pages for the answer.

NA schools have more kids from MC housing secure families, have less teacher turnover and better funded PTAs that can pay for field trips and other extras + kids who show up for school.

SA schools don’t have most of these things.

Options are like NA schools but more racially and economically diverse.

+1. But APS pretends like they’re all the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools are some of the most diverse and balanced in Arlington. If people actually want to solve the issue of structural racism you don't shut down the option schools. You go after the schools that are 2% minority. This means radical boundary adjustments or a countywide ranked choice system. I'm all for it, but are they? Kinda doubt it, they people want their cake and they want to eat it too.

People are also ignoring that having the option programs at Gunston and Wakefield are helpful to disparities at those schools. My 22207 kid wouldn't attend either except for their option program and their stats absolutely benefit the school.

"Their stats absolutely benefit the school"??? Their "stats" benefit the school?
So your child increases the non-FRL rate and, I assume, provides good test scores. But does your CHILD benefit the school? My understanding is that Montessori isn't particularly integrated into the larger school community; and immersion is also separated a lot. Benefiting overal stats is not the same as creating a comparable, integrated school.

FFS just stop

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

Let’s pretend that all the kids in a school are white and the FARMS rate is 70% or more and very poor test scores with not even 50% passing scores in reading and math.

You truly believe that parents would suddenly be ok with that bc the kids are white and would not select an option school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^
Many of us moved to DMV from other states and we bought in NA because we work in DC and want to be near the Orange line and bus lines that take us directly to the stations, or close-by parking. When I was looking, I was told by coworkers and realtors that all Arlington schools are very good, so we looked all over the county.

And what's the big deal if "white" people want to spend extra to live in NA if they can afford it and want a more green, suburban setting?! Why are so many in Arlington so race-obsessed?

Look at the last 25 pages for the answer.

NA schools have more kids from MC housing secure families, have less teacher turnover and better funded PTAs that can pay for field trips and other extras + kids who show up for school.

SA schools don’t have most of these things.

Options are like NA schools but more racially and economically diverse.

+1. But APS pretends like they’re all the same.

An APS staffer said they don’t compare school performance among schools. Seems like they should to see what’s working. It doesn’t all come down to demographics. There are some title 1 neighborhood schools outperforming others by a large degree. Strong leadership and teachers make a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.

22204 -- 4 bed, 4 bath, 5,000 sq ft house, 2 car garage, 8000 sq ft lot, nice SFH neighborhood close to 395 and Pentagon City metro (Douglas Park), $1.3M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3505A-16th-St-S_Arlington_VA_22204_M91441-13462?from=srp-list-card

in 22207, similar houses are $1.8M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2115-Military-Rd_Arlington_VA_22207_M60569-95271?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5205-27th-Rd-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M66375-43352?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2254-N-Columbus-St_Arlington_VA_22207_M67625-96482?from=srp-list-card

$2.3M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6207-29th-St-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M54395-94810?from=srp-list-card

The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.

https://www.homes.com/property/724-n-cleveland-st-arlington-va/j119e7w41rrhw/

Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.

Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.

Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

Let’s pretend that all the kids in a school are white and the FARMS rate is 70% or more and very poor test scores with not even 50% passing scores in reading and math.

You truly believe that parents would suddenly be ok with that bc the kids are white and would not select an option school

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.

22204 -- 4 bed, 4 bath, 5,000 sq ft house, 2 car garage, 8000 sq ft lot, nice SFH neighborhood close to 395 and Pentagon City metro (Douglas Park), $1.3M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3505A-16th-St-S_Arlington_VA_22204_M91441-13462?from=srp-list-card

in 22207, similar houses are $1.8M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2115-Military-Rd_Arlington_VA_22207_M60569-95271?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5205-27th-Rd-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M66375-43352?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2254-N-Columbus-St_Arlington_VA_22207_M67625-96482?from=srp-list-card

$2.3M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6207-29th-St-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M54395-94810?from=srp-list-card

The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.

https://www.homes.com/property/724-n-cleveland-st-arlington-va/j119e7w41rrhw/

Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.

Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.

Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!

Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^
Many of us moved to DMV from other states and we bought in NA because we work in DC and want to be near the Orange line and bus lines that take us directly to the stations, or close-by parking. When I was looking, I was told by coworkers and realtors that all Arlington schools are very good, so we looked all over the county.

And what's the big deal if "white" people want to spend extra to live in NA if they can afford it and want a more green, suburban setting?! Why are so many in Arlington so race-obsessed?

Look at the last 25 pages for the answer.

NA schools have more kids from MC housing secure families, have less teacher turnover and better funded PTAs that can pay for field trips and other extras + kids who show up for school.

SA schools don’t have most of these things.

Options are like NA schools but more racially and economically diverse.

+1. But APS pretends like they’re all the same.

An APS staffer said they don’t compare school performance among schools. Seems like they should to see what’s working. It doesn’t all come down to demographics. There are some title 1 neighborhood schools outperforming others by a large degree. Strong leadership and teachers make a difference.

So, if you look at performance of white non-disadvantaged non-SpEd kids, they do well anywhere. So it is technically meeting the “needs.” But parents often want more than that, especially when they know that less than a mile away or at an option school their kid can get that same need met, plus get field trips, after school clubs, and activities. And for kids in other categories, the numbers (causation or correlation, who knows) really show they don’t have the same academic performance in highly segregated schools that don’t have those kinds of clubs and activities.

Lastly, where the hell was JF when these decisions were being made!!? It’s like beyond ridiculous to talk about now that it’s all a done deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.

22204 -- 4 bed, 4 bath, 5,000 sq ft house, 2 car garage, 8000 sq ft lot, nice SFH neighborhood close to 395 and Pentagon City metro (Douglas Park), $1.3M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3505A-16th-St-S_Arlington_VA_22204_M91441-13462?from=srp-list-card

in 22207, similar houses are $1.8M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2115-Military-Rd_Arlington_VA_22207_M60569-95271?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5205-27th-Rd-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M66375-43352?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2254-N-Columbus-St_Arlington_VA_22207_M67625-96482?from=srp-list-card

$2.3M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6207-29th-St-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M54395-94810?from=srp-list-card

The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.

https://www.homes.com/property/724-n-cleveland-st-arlington-va/j119e7w41rrhw/

Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.

Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.

Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!

Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.

And we all know that the boundary fights are as much about protecting home values as anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.

22204 -- 4 bed, 4 bath, 5,000 sq ft house, 2 car garage, 8000 sq ft lot, nice SFH neighborhood close to 395 and Pentagon City metro (Douglas Park), $1.3M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3505A-16th-St-S_Arlington_VA_22204_M91441-13462?from=srp-list-card

in 22207, similar houses are $1.8M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2115-Military-Rd_Arlington_VA_22207_M60569-95271?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5205-27th-Rd-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M66375-43352?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2254-N-Columbus-St_Arlington_VA_22207_M67625-96482?from=srp-list-card

$2.3M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6207-29th-St-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M54395-94810?from=srp-list-card

The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.

https://www.homes.com/property/724-n-cleveland-st-arlington-va/j119e7w41rrhw/

Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.

Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.

Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!

Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.

I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”

I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.

Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.

22204 -- 4 bed, 4 bath, 5,000 sq ft house, 2 car garage, 8000 sq ft lot, nice SFH neighborhood close to 395 and Pentagon City metro (Douglas Park), $1.3M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3505A-16th-St-S_Arlington_VA_22204_M91441-13462?from=srp-list-card

in 22207, similar houses are $1.8M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2115-Military-Rd_Arlington_VA_22207_M60569-95271?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5205-27th-Rd-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M66375-43352?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2254-N-Columbus-St_Arlington_VA_22207_M67625-96482?from=srp-list-card

$2.3M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6207-29th-St-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M54395-94810?from=srp-list-card

The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.

https://www.homes.com/property/724-n-cleveland-st-arlington-va/j119e7w41rrhw/

Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.

Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.

Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!

Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.

I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”

I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.

Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.

What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF

The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.

Everything this person said. Plus 1000.

I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.

This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.

The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?

SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.

And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.

You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.

The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.

22204 -- 4 bed, 4 bath, 5,000 sq ft house, 2 car garage, 8000 sq ft lot, nice SFH neighborhood close to 395 and Pentagon City metro (Douglas Park), $1.3M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3505A-16th-St-S_Arlington_VA_22204_M91441-13462?from=srp-list-card

in 22207, similar houses are $1.8M
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2115-Military-Rd_Arlington_VA_22207_M60569-95271?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5205-27th-Rd-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M66375-43352?from=srp-list-card

$2.0M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2254-N-Columbus-St_Arlington_VA_22207_M67625-96482?from=srp-list-card

$2.3M https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6207-29th-St-N_Arlington_VA_22207_M54395-94810?from=srp-list-card

The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.

https://www.homes.com/property/724-n-cleveland-st-arlington-va/j119e7w41rrhw/

Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.

Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.

Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!

Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.

I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”

I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.

Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.

What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF

The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.

The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.

I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.

Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.